7-C+ Tournament Round 1, Match 8: Pride vs Frightningale

[Razor]

Unrelated question but, will killing pride's avatar be enough for a win or do you have to kill his true body as well? Because his true body has Low-high

 

[Imaginym]

Unrelated question but, will killing pride's avatar be enough for a win or do you have to kill his true body as well? Because his true body has Low-high

Apparently not relevant because Frightningale's weapon Petrifies on contact.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Pride FRA

 

[Razor]

Apparently not relevant because Frightningale's weapon Petrifies on contact.

I'm not talking about this matchup, but the tournament overall. If his true body needs to be killed in order to permanently put him down he'd be too op since he has Low-high

 

[Imaginym]

I'm not talking about this matchup, but the tournament overall. If his true body needs to be killed in order to permanently put him down he'd be too op since he has Low-high

Knock Unconscious? BFR? Or other non-murder win conditions?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Knock Unconscious? BFR? Or other non-murder win conditions?

None of the characters in this tourney have BFR iirc. Characters with Mid regen or higher can't get knocked out. Not too sure on the non-murder win conditions.

 

[Razor]

Knock Unconscious? BFR? Or other non-murder win conditions?

Nobody in the tournament has BFR since thats an OP hax. Where does his true body reside? Non murder win cons are BFR or Incap for a full day. plus knocking the avatar won't do anything since the shadows can still attack and you cant knock a shadow unconscious nor would anybody try to do that

 

[Razor]

Oh also the Incap for a full day is almost always by Knock out cause no one in fiction grapples their enemy for a full day which is the duration you need to net a win by grappling

Edit: Oh yeah I forgot, As random mentioned above people with mid or higher regen can't get K.O'd since one of the requirements for mid regen is regenerating from severe brain damage

 

[Imaginym]

Characters with Mid regen or higher can't get knocked out.

They can't? Source?

Nobody in the tournament has BFR since thats an OP hax. Where does his true body reside? Non murder win cons are BFR or Incap for a full day. plus knocking the avatar won't do anything since the shadows can still attack and you cant knock a shadow unconscious nor would anybody try to do that

I'm unsure. Haven't gone into FMA in a while.

Asked about on a Discord. Apparently, The True Body would be the Philosopher's Stone inside the kid. The True Body isn't separate, it's the Philosopher's Stone inside of him, which all 7 of the Homunculi named after the Sins have. (A Philosopher's Stone is made from human souls created through murder.)

Also, Pride's Regeneration can only be used a finite amount of times:

Weaknesses: Pride often underestimates his enemies, needs light for his shadow to work and when he assimilates the abilities of a particular victim, he also gains their corresponding weaknesses. If killed enough times, Pride will run out of souls to regenerate, causing Pride to another form or turn into dust killing him for good. Although, this weakness is somewhat circumvented by Pride being able to absorb souls.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how many times he can Regenerate.

Yes, but so can Frightningale attack at the shadows. That's the point.

Fair. I just doubt the shadows would be her first target, since there's an obvious "human" to make sing/dance right there.

Thing is, her targeting the kid doesn’t means she'll be reckless or let herself be attacked. She'll defend herself from the shadows even though the vessel's her main target.

Fair, but he outranges her, has more angles of attack, & also has:
Enhanced Senses (Can see things around his shadows, gained an enhanced sense of smell from devouring Gluttony).

I already said that it's not the same, what I said, however, is that Pride won’t be having an easy time with her either.

Probably not the same, but when Pride's range can be practically anywhere in the city, you can only jump or dodge to safety from being surrounded so many times before you land somewhere that's not a safe zone anymore.

I think you’re mixing talking points here. This isn’t about countering transmutation. This is about the nature of Fright's powers, as it's imposible to pretrify something that's already immobile.

Oh, you mean about why her whip that was made to force people into her show doesn't petrify non-humans.

"Petrification is considered to be a sub-category of transmutation, it forcibly turns the target into a statue of stone or other inorganic material."
If her ability is Petrification (Turn to stone, as opposed to say, pink metal or whatever.), then why didn't it work on non-stone inanimate objects? I'd assume it's based on that it's to force people to be part of her show, but if there's a different reason, I wouldn't be surprised.

Mobile beings.

Ah, so animate things.

Which ones?

The ones that involve "When my whip touches you, you start dancing & singing or you turn into pink stuff".

I'm saying that breaking the whip is unlikely to set the Akuma free, as it's an asset of the microphone, not the microphone itself. If that gets to happen anyways for all it worth.

Yeah, but the reason I brought up if the whip is destructible is because destroying your opponent's weapon that petrifies you on contact is probably a good time investment, whether it frees the Akuma or not; Frightningale might be evasive, but without her weapon, she

Besides, It'll be an incon at best.

Why is that? Can't you kill someone who's Akumatized?


Also, if I'm not mistaken from what I've read on Discord, Petrifying Pride might not actually stop him, because the Philosopher's Stone is made of Human Souls, & thus, probably won't be petrified along with his real body.
Petrifying his kid body would probably mean he'd just keep fighting with the kid turned to stone, maybe create a new body with some Souls from the Philosopher's Stone.

 

[Razor]

They can't? Source?

I'm unsure. Haven't gone into FMA in a while.

Asked about on a Discord. Apparently, The True Body would be the Philosopher's Stone inside the kid. The True Body isn't separate, it's the Philosopher's Stone inside of him, which all 7 of the Homunculi named after the Sins have. (A Philosopher's Stone is made from human souls created through murder.)

Also, Pride's Regeneration can only be used a finite amount of times:

Weaknesses: Pride often underestimates his enemies, needs light for his shadow to work and when he assimilates the abilities of a particular victim, he also gains their corresponding weaknesses. If killed enough times, Pride will run out of souls to regenerate, causing Pride to another form or turn into dust killing him for good. Although, this weakness is somewhat circumvented by Pride being able to absorb souls.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how many times he can Regenerate.

One of mid regen's requirements is to regenerate from severe brain damage.

Even if he can use it only like 10 times it'd basically be a 10 use revive which is too op.

 

[Imaginym]

One of mid regen's requirements is to regenerate from severe brain damage.

Even if he can use it only like 10 times it'd basically be a 10 use revive which is too op.

Well, for clarification, a Philosopher's Stone can be exhausted enough that the Homunculus stays dead from no longer being able to heal.

From what I've read on Discord, more to heal taxes the soul supply more; This made fire more effective, as it was burning away a lot of her body, forcing her to heal off a lot each time.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

So characters with fire-like attacks can overpower that regen?

Still, it's never specified how many times can Pride regen before he kicks the bucket.

 

[Imaginym]

So characters with fire-like attacks can overpower that regen?

Roy used fire alchemy to do so repeatedly. They can still regenerate from burns or being set on fire. In theory, destroying their body enough times will work; It seems to be about "more destruction to heal costs more of the Souls that comprise the Philosopher's Stone". Out of Souls, & the Homunculi will be on their last life.

Still, it's never specified how many times can Pride regen before he kicks the bucket.

But should it be a much greater amount of times than Lust, who is 1 of the other 7 Homunculi that Pride is part of the group of?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

So constantly overwhelming him with no relent will do the job? Most of the characters in the tourney don't do that in character.

But should it be a much greater amount of times than Lust, who is 1 of the other 7 Homunculi that Pride is part of the group of?

So, how many times? I don't know anything about FMA.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I'm tired asf right now. I'm going to sleep.

See y'all tomorrow.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I'll respond to everything tomorrow.

 

[deonment]

so, I have decided to comment here to say that this match should be canceled because upon seeing stuff, the regen for homunculi is going to get upgraded to mid high which make this match nuller than it even is, especially considering the petrification shouldn't even work against the shadows since they are legitimate shadows that do not get to manifest without light + even if pride gets hit he can just make a new body without a care

 

[Imaginym]

So constantly overwhelming him with no relent will do the job?

Seemingly so.

Most of the characters in the tourney don't do that in character.

Even if he keeps getting up/reforming, they would relent?

So, how many times? I don't know anything about FMA.

From what I've asked on Discord, Pride's Philosopher's Stone has more Souls than any of the Homunculi except for Father & Hohenheim. This is in part because Pride consumed his fellow Homunculus Gluttony. So more than Lust, but by an unknown amount.

 

[Razor]

Well, for clarification, a Philosopher's Stone can be exhausted enough that the Homunculus stays dead from no longer being able to heal.

From what I've read on Discord, more to heal taxes the soul supply more; This made fire more effective, as it was burning away a lot of her body, forcing her to heal off a lot each time.

And how long until the soul supply gets exhausted?

 

[Razor]

Alright so apparently pride can make a new body if his true one isn't destroyed which makes him a fat no no for this tournament since not only will you have to exhaust the real pride's regeneration but also deal with the new bodies he made after already killing the new one, he's way too OP for this tournament and needs to be kicked

 

[Imaginym]

And how long until the soul supply gets exhausted?

Presumably, after a greater amount of destruction than Roy inflicted on Lust in the video linked above, since Pride has more Souls in his Philosopher's Stone than Lust.

 

[Razor]

Presumably, after a greater amount of destruction than Roy inflicted on Lust in the video linked above, since Pride has more Souls in his Philosopher's Stone than Lust.

He literally had to vaporize her...

 

[Imaginym]

He literally had to vaporize her...

It isn't "To what extent can you destroy them?", it's "How much can you make them heal?".
Smashing their body to pieces or burning their flesh enough times is just as valid a means of taxing their regeneration as vaporizing them.
Homunculi have a finite amount of Souls to fuel their healing, no matter what kind of healing it is, but greater damage takes more souls to recover.

 

[Razor]

It isn't "To what extent can you destroy them?", it's "How much can you make them heal?".
Smashing their body to pieces or burning their flesh enough times is just as valid a means of taxing their regeneration as vaporizing them.
Homunculi have a finite amount of Souls to fuel their healing, no matter what kind of healing it is, but greater damage takes more souls to recover.

It'd still require a lot of stamina on top of having to deal with the new avatars that pride makes, And thats before even defeating the main avatar pride has, You'd have to get past said avatar, make it to the true body and completely overwhelm him to the point that you can attack him while taking out his avatars, and even if you do overwhelm him to that extent which is impossible cause everyone in this tournament is at the same tier you'll still have to overwhelm his regen on top of overwhelming the production rate of his avatars that he can make any amount of if his true body still exists.

 

[deonment]

pride does not make avatars, pride can make a wholly new body from his stone, but he cannot create avatars

 

[Razor]

pride does not make avatars, pride can make a wholly new body from his stone, but he cannot create avatars

A separate body from his true body? If so then thats what I meant I just used the word avatar since Idk what other word to use

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Then what stops Frightningale from hitting the new bodies with her whip? These new bodies will also freeze if they'll get touched by her whip should they not rhyme and dance

 

[Razor]

We aren't discussing about this for this thread, were talking about how Pride is too op for the tournament. Also can shadows even be petrified? Since I think pride's true body is a shadow

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

We aren't discussing about this for this thread, were talking about how Pride is too op for the tournament. Also can shadows even be petrified? Since I think pride's true body is a shadow

If he can't be touched or killed by anyone then yeah that would be too OP

 

[Razor]

That and Low-high regen for his true body

If he can't be touched or killed by anyone then yeah that would be too OP

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

That and Low-high regen for his true body

Yeah Low-High is very op for a limited hax tournament since AP advantage means almost nothing (not that she have that though)

 

[Razor]

Nobody in this tournament can even have a higher than 2x AP advantage because 7-C+ is 50 kilotons - 100 kilotons so even something like Low-mid or mid is OP, More so Low-high

 

[Imaginym]

Then what stops Frightningale from hitting the new bodies with her whip? These new bodies will also freeze if they'll get touched by her whip should they not rhyme and dance

He can, but the body is a shell for the shadows inside, which is piloted/fuelled by the Homunculus that uses The Philosopher's Stone as fuel.
Petrifying the kid just means he makes a new container for his shadows, or he just keeps attacking with them, he just can't move his container.

The Philosopher's Stone, AFAIK, is the container for his consciousness, but itself, is made of human souls.
The Low-High Regen is mostly for creating new bodies, & finite, since he can make new bodies/heal himself.

 

[Imaginym]

Besides, It'll be an incon at best.

I still wanna know about this. Why would it be an Inconclusive?

Is this something to do with what happens an after Akuma is defeated without being purified like how the Akuma Butterfly leaves, multiplies, & goes after others to Parayze them until the original victim is Akumatized again?

 

[Razor]

It being finite doesn't make it not OP man, You'd have to have ungodly stamina on top of overwhelming every new bodies he makes and the production rate of the new bodies to be able to attack his true body at all and thats just assuming he'll stand there and let you exhaust his regen once you do get to his true body.

 

[Imaginym]

It being finite doesn't make it not OP man, You'd have to have ungodly stamina on top of overwhelming every new bodies he makes and the production rate of the new bodies to be able to attack his true body at all and thats just assuming he'll stand there and let you exhaust his regen once you do get to his true body.

Yeah, I getcha', he might be a bit difficult to actually overwhelm his Regeneration.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Yeah from what I see he seems pretty OP based on what you said. Especially for this tournament that isn't very haxxed

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

I still wanna know about this. Why would it be an Inconclusive?

I'm referring to the scenario where the shadow gets into the whip to destroy it. Fright might be de-akumatized, but Pride would end up petrified.

 

[Imaginym]

I'm referring to the scenario where the shadow gets into the whip to destroy it. Fright might be de-akumatized, but Pride would end up petrified.

Ah. From what I learned, Pride's kid body being petrified doesn't matter. It's just a shell/container he uses to move about & won't stop him using the shadows. He's moreso the shadows, & especially The Philosopher's Stone inside him (Which, being made of human Souls, isn't really very petrifiable.) like the other Homonculi have.

Sorry for any bother with that.

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Missed this.

Fair. I just doubt the shadows would be her first target, since there's an obvious "human" to make sing/dance right there.

My point has never said that they would be, my point is to say that it's more probably for the Shadows would be the first thing she would I hav to interact with.

Fair, but he outranges her, has more angles of attack, & also has:
Enhanced Senses (Can see things around his shadows, gained an enhanced sense of smell from devouring Gluttony).

Again. I already said that he outranges. But the thing here is that his method of range makes him the most vulnerable there as Fright can safely attack from the distance, whereas Pride's Shadows would need to avoid being tagged despite not knowing that contact might be fatal a worsen by the fact that multiple angles increases the probability for him to get touch.

Probably not the same, but when Pride's range can be practically anywhere in the city, you can only jump or dodge to safety from being surrounded so many times before you land somewhere that's not a safe zone anymore.

I would agree normally, but we are talking of case where the one dodging getting the tag is screwed over. Fright it's still outside of one-shot range and it takes a touch of the whip for Pride to fall over.

Oh, you mean about why her whip that was made to force people into her show doesn't petrify non-humans.

"Petrification is considered to be a sub-category of transmutation, it forcibly turns the target into a statue of stone or other inorganic material."
If her ability is Petrification (Turn to stone, as opposed to say, pink metal or whatever.), then why didn't it work on non-stone inanimate objects? I'd assume it's based on that it's to force people to be part of her show, but if there's a different reason, I wouldn't be surprised.

Frightningale doesn’t transmutates, she petrifies (subset, but not the same). Frightningale was given powers to corse others into her show. You cannot make the pavement sing, dance or rhyme, nor freeze something that's already immobile.

You're going to a more in book definition of an ability; The truth with Frightningale's powers is that they are never stated to be petrification per se. They are taken as such because that's who it seems to work. But every time her ability is referred to is stated that the victims are frozen in place.

Ah, so animate things.

Don’t know if you’re playing semantics here.

The ones that involve "When my whip touches you, you start dancing & singing or you turn into pink stuff".

Don’t know how that means that it's species exclusive.