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7-C+ Tournament Round 1, Match 6: Koon Ran vs Queen Wasp

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RandomGuy2345 said:
How?

Ran has force fields, greater speed, and he can produce storm clouds which impair the opponents vision.

Queen Wasp will definitely struggle with this.
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Would he do it fast enough to avoid her wasps? And also all of that are just defensive moves, and it'll only be a matter of time before he'd stop and will get stung
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
How?

Ran has force fields, greater speed, and he can produce storm clouds which impair the opponents vision.

Queen Wasp will definitely struggle with this.
Click to expand...
I mean if she were to instantly lead with thousands of bees...

Actually you are right in a way.
You see Ran has seen Vespa, a character from ToG who also kills people with poison and such. He would definitely go for defense when it comes to the bees and would hit her a good lightning bolt.
Idk if that is enough though so..
 
Could he potentially amp his speed to get around the wasps, and get to Queen Wasp herself and spam her with lightning attacks? Or just jump up in the air and zap all the wasps?
 
Nierre said:
Could he potentially amp his speed to get around the wasps, and get to Queen Wasp herself and spam her with lightning attacks? Or just jump up in the air and zap all the wasps?
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Potentially, well, yes.

Likely? Well. That's a different thing.

Twice speed doesn’t translate into untouchable nor blitz worth, with the range difference and Wasp' own defensive prowess difficulting said scenario from happening. As well as the fact that Wasp doesn’t has to put the same effort into attacking and dodging that Koon has.
 
Oh I know. I'm not talking about a blitz or anything, I'm just talking about a speed amp in general. The lightning should easily get rid of the wasps and he has more than enough stamina to run around dodge, and attack. Whereas she doesn't have nearly enough stamina to keep up with him. Anyways what "defensive prowess" does she have that's stopping him from zapping her? Cause the only thing I can see she has against him is range, which won't really matter since he has speed amps and forcefields he can and will use. Once he actually gets close to her, she can't really do anything, since his lightning will just fry her wasps.

My vote goes to Koon
 
Nierre said:
Oh I know. I'm not talking about a blitz or anything, I'm just talking about a speed amp in general. The lightning should easily get rid of the wasps and he has more than enough stamina to run around dodge, and attack. Whereas she doesn't have nearly enough stamina to keep up with him.
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Queen Wasp literally have Superhuman stamina (and she scales above Queen Bee, who in turn scales to Aspik, who could fight non stop for months straight with no signs of fatigue), compared to his high stamina
Nierre said:
Anyways what "defensive prowess" does she have that's stopping him from zapping her? Cause the only thing I can see she has against him is range, which won't really matter since he has speed amps and forcefields he can and will use. Once he actually gets close to her, she can't really do anything, since his lightning will just fry her wasps.
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What stops Queen Wasp from sinply dodging the attack? And if he'd try an offensive move on her, her thousands of wasps will simply swarm at him and sting him, not to mention that she can fly with her wasps and use them as shields
 
Queen Wasp will have a hard time reacting due to Koon's greater speed.

Plus, he can use his Electric Storm Cloud to impair Queen Wasps' vision so he can get an opening.
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Queen Wasp literally have Superhuman stamina (and she scales above Queen Bee, who in turn scales to Aspik, who could fight non stop for months straight with no signs of fatigue), compared to his high stamina
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Is high not more than Superhuman? I'm not actually sure about this so clarification would be nice.. I assumed it was Average < Above Average < Superhuman < High etc etc

Also Stamina does not scale like that.
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
What stops Queen Wasp from sinply dodging the attack? And if he'd try an offensive move on her, her thousands of wasps will simply swarm at him and sting him, not to mention that she can fly with her wasps and use them as shields
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He has huge AOE so she'd have a hard time "simply dodging" not to mention the already mentioned speed amp Ran has. Also the wasps will literally just get toasted. They aren't going to weaken or stop Lightning Strikes.
 
Nierre said:
Is high not more than Superhuman? I'm not actually sure about this so clarification would be nice.. I assumed it was Average < Above Average < Superhuman < High etc etc

Also Stamina does not scale like that.
Click to expand...
Does he have feats better than those she scales to? Because from what I see, it's not even close
Nierre said:
He has huge AOE so she'd have a hard time "simply dodging" not to mention the already mentioned speed amp Ran has. Also the wasps will literally just get toasted. They aren't going to weaken or stop Lightning Strikes.
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Queen Wasp already got the AP advantage so even if they'll get burned (which I doubt it will happen, since they took attacks from Ladybug and Cat Noir with no more than simply scattering and reforming), she can still use the Venom herself on him

Also, how in character is his move and what's the range of his AoE attack?
 
Nierre said:
The lightning should easily get rid of the wasps
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Well, not so regular waps.

Queen Wasp has more wasps than his active range and can create more. The fact that Koon isn’t aware of the wasp's abilities themselves seems like an overall conscious effort for something he doesn’t has a clue about.
Nierre said:
and he has more than enough stamina to run around dodge, and attack. Whereas she doesn't have nearly enough stamina to keep up with him.
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Queen Wasp gets her stamina from sharing physicals with people capable of being active for months worth of time.
Nierre said:
Anyways what "defensive prowess" does she have that's stopping him from zapping her?
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Monkey_Dunno said:
Electricity AoE is a nice coverage, but it's not the most valuable assets when his range falls short for it which is worsen by the fact that Queen Wasp will often stay midair on a platform of wasps, which makes harder to tag a character that A) Has experience of dodging attacks from all direction as well as homing attackers B) Her Spinning top is electricity insulated for the looks of how it blocks Stormy Weather's lightning.
Click to expand...
Nierre said:
Is high not more than Superhuman? I'm not actually sure about this so clarification would be nice.. I assumed it was Average < Above Average < Superhuman < High etc etc
Click to expand...
There's no Stamina ranks.

Nierre said:
Also Stamina does not scale like that.
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Miraculous holders share physicals.
Nierre said:
Also the wasps will literally just get toasted. They aren't going to weaken or stop Lightning Strikes.
Click to expand...
Ok. This is based on what exactly?
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
How in character is his move and what's the range of his AoE attack?
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Dozens of meters and a few meters in width. That is if we are talking about his normal lightning spears. His aoe is in characters as he used it the moment he needed a strategic advantage.
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Does he have feats better than those she scales to? Because from what I see, it's not even close
Click to expand...
It's connected to his Resistance to Pain, Electricity, Energy, and Matter Immobilization Manipulation on his profile. (The TOG Profiles really need updates, they feel empty.)
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Queen Wasp already got the AP advantage so even if they'll get burned (which I doubt it will happen, since they took attacks from Ladybug and Cat Noir with no more than simply scattering and reforming)
Click to expand...
Well I'd assume spamming should easily do the trick.
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
she can still use the Venom herself on him
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Has she done that before in character?
Monkey_Dunno said:
Queen Wasp has more wasps than his active range and can create more. The fact that Koon isn’t aware of the wasp's abilities themselves seems like an overall conscious effort for something he doesn’t has a clue about.
Click to expand...
Uh no. Unless you're expecting that he's going to stand there and let himself get hit by wasps, he'll definitely make a conscious effort to avoid getting hit, especially since there's a whole swarm of them.
Monkey_Dunno said:
There's no Stamina ranks.
Click to expand...
That doesn't answer my question. There's a reason why her's is "Superhuman".
Monkey_Dunno said:
Miraculous holders share physicals.
Click to expand...
Meaning?
 
Nierre said:
It's connected to his Resistance to Pain, Electricity, Energy, and Matter Immobilization Manipulation on his profile. (The TOG Profiles really need updates, they feel empty.)
Click to expand...
Still doesn't mean much except he got resistance to those things. These aren't really stamina feats tbh
Nierre said:
Well I'd assume spamming should easily do the trick.
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Not really, since more are coming all the time and she can literally keep doing this all day, while from his stamina he can't keep up as well
Nierre said:
Has she done that before in character?
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Literally all the time as Queen Bee. The only reason she doesn't do this as Queen Wasp too is because she has the wasps to do it for her
Nierre said:
Uh no. Unless you're expecting that he's going to stand there and let himself get hit by wasps, he'll definitely make a conscious effort to avoid getting hit, especially since there's a whole swarm of them.
Click to expand...
Good luck for him trying to escape basically a danmaku of wasps that: 1) Outranges him very hard (the wasps comes from kilometers away while his max range is tens of meters), and 2) Come from literally all sides and have thousands of them. Unless you can show me a scan where he can fight off thousands of characters with just a mere 2 times speed gap, and those that keep coming all the time, I don't see much of a way for him to be able to consistently dodge all of them (especially when Ladybug and Cat Noir needed to escape to the water because they couldn't keep dodging the wasps forever)
Nierre said:
That doesn't answer my question. There's a reason why her's is "Superhuman".
Click to expand...
I already explained to you. She scales above Queen Bee, who in turn scales to Aspik, who could fight non stop for months straight with no signs of fatigue
Nierre said:
Meaning?
Click to expand...
The Miraculous holders all scale to each other in terms of their physical abilities. They only really differ in their special powers they get from their kwamis
 
Nierre said:
Uh no. Unless you're expecting that he's going to stand there and let himself get hit by wasps, he'll definitely make a conscious effort to avoid getting hit, especially since there's a whole swarm of them.
Click to expand...
Bold is correct. But there are fundamental differences between that and going all the way with lightning at any given chance for all he knows.

Nierre said:
That doesn't answer my question. There's a reason why her's is "Superhuman".
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Because giving names to the stamina section is something that's done even though it's not standardized. The same thing happened and still happens with other fields even when they are, actually, standardized. Just look at Koon's intelligence and look for it on the Intelligence page. It isn’t there.

What's "high", "immense", "superhuman" or "godlike" is arbitrary.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Dude, if a character with "godlike" stamina is facing someone with "superhuman" stamina, then the person with godlike stamina has more stamina. Doesn't matter it gives no explanations. We can't just throw it off as "arbitrary."
Click to expand...
You do need stamina feats to explain their ratings. Especially since Stamina wordings vary from verse to verse
 
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