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6D Silver Bubbles

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EldemadeDityjon said:
Added few additional supporting evidence. Previously Elizha seemed to agree based on Some of the evidence and disgreed because of some of other factors.

Actually I made a mistake in last thread. I accidentally put Difference Between layers as Example but it shouldn't have been added. Anyway Currently I am just using Explanation for Bubbles and Silver Bubbles and their Significant Difference of Existence.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/maou-...grade-from-2-a-to-low-1-c.142862/post-5138146

@Elizhaa Response in Previous Thread.


The various laws that make up the world, or the power of the gods that keep these laws normal. There are various orders such as “time”, “creation”, and “destruction”, and the same number of gods control them.
"It is the reason why this world is the world it is. Why is a bird a bird, why is a demon a demon? The heavens send down rain to moisten the earth and nurture the trees. If you draw a magic circle and put magic power into the magic formula, the light will come on. These are what we call the laws of nature, the laws of magic, the order that makes this world what it is."

[...]

"And the beings who maintain that order, the beings who embody that order, are the higher order divine race, the gods."
Order is reality of the world
Something that flows through the Fundamental Laws Cyclic Garden, the domains of the Four Fundamental Laws Gods, equivalent to the term "Source" in the world of mortals. It is born, deepens, meets its demise, changes and cycles back to birth again, gradually decreasing its total amount in the process.
A visualization of the laws that affect the "Source" of the earth, which flows in the depths of the "Azure Sky of the Gods". It is the very power itself that the world contains, and the strength of the world's order is approximately equivalent to the total amount of fire dew that it contains.
"Fire dew is the order of life-force. Its quantity is the foundation of the Small World, which determines the depth of the world. It is no exaggeration to say that Silver Water Shogi uses the Small World itself as its pawns."

If you lose the fire dew, the world will be destroyed.

The amount of fire dew is directly related to the amount of magic power in the entire small world.

Using the fire dew as pawns would indeed be equivalent to using the world itself as a pawn.
From both Keywords from LN and WN chapters we can easily conclude the amount of fire dew world has directly linked to worlds reality.
"Ha-ha-ha. You still don't even know the hierarchy of your world, do you? Pity. Ottorloo, you've already figured it out, haven't you?　Tell him."

Then Ottrulu said.

"The survey of the Militia world's holdings of fire dew was completed this morning."

I'm sorry to hear that you just got here last night.

"However, a decision is pending due to undetectable values. Tentatively, the amount of fire dew holdings in the Militia world is on par with the zeroth layer world. There is a slight possibility of unevolved"

Then, the students of the various academies, who had not paid much attention to us so far, began to murmur at once.

"...... What do you mean?"

"It is impossible. Is it indeed ...... that the number is so high as to be undetectable?"

"Oh ...... too little fire dew ......"

"But if so, how did we get here?　There is no way you can get out to the Silver Sea unevolved. Is it simply because there is not enough fire dew ......?"

"But how did it evolve without fire dew for the first world minute ......?　Normally, it would have perished as it did: ......"
It's impossible to measure the fire dew of bubble world because they are insignificant compared to Silver Bubbles. Fire Dew is the Reality of the world as explained

Bubble World
Among the worlds that exist in the Silver Water Holy Sea, there are those where the Chief God has not yet been born, and the world has not evolved to be able to perceive the outside of the world. They are constantly releasing fire dew, and most of them are fated to disappear without any change
Silver Bubble World
Ottlulu draws a transparent bubble on a spherical blackboard.

She wrote 'Bubble World' on it.

"The movement of fire dew occurs mainly in the bubble world. This is what we call the countless dark bubbles floating in the Silver Sea. It is said that all worlds begin with bubbles. Even the deeper worlds located in the depths of this ocean, was one bubble in the beginning."

She added the word 'unevolved'.

"The bubble world is an unevolved small world. In the Silver Sea, it can be said to be an unborn world, because the Bubble World does not have a Chief God and Sovereign. Without the Chief God, there is no complete control over the order of the Small World, and without the Sovereign, the inhabitants of the small world will continue to fight. It's easy to imagine what will happen."

Like a bubble popping, the Bubble World disappears.

"The bubbles of that ocean would disappear if left alone like this, hence the name bubbles."

Lots of bubbles appear again, building a bubble world.

"However, not all bubbles disappear. Those bubble worlds that are lucky enough to survive have certain changes going on within them."

Ottlulu wrote 'The birth of a Conformist'.

"There is order in the bubble world, and there are gods. They have the seeds of world will to lead the world in one direction. The seeds of world will are invisible and do not have a clear consciousness. The gods obey it, and each of them acts in a vague way, trying to lead the world to the right order. In most cases, they fail, but in bubbles blessed with the blessing of the Silver Sea, a conformist is born."

In the Militia world, the gears of Eques were probably the seeds of world will.

"The Conformist is the end result of the evolution of life. They have magic power and strength, power that surpasses that of the gods, and the power to lead the world in a better direction. As the number of conformists continues to increase, further changes will be brought to the small world. That is the birth of the World Chief God."

Ottlulu continued her explanation without hesitation.

"The existence of the Conformist strengthens the world's fire dew and brings a strong force to the order. One of the seeds of the world possessed by the gods will sprout, and the existence that can be called the will of the world, the World Chief God, will be born."

"It's a little different from the Militia world."

[...]

"With the birth of the World Chief God, the small world will change drastically. The Chief God will choose a suitable Sovereign to rule the small world. The candidates will be the Conformists."

"Do you mean a Sovereign Conformist?"

"They are the Sovereign Conformist and a conformist of an evolved world. The Chief God sniffs out those who are suitable for his world according to his order."

[...]

"The Chief God will choose a king of the world from among the conformists. This will create a Sovereign, and the bubble world will evolve into a silver bubble."
"Each sanctuary is a microcosm of the world. Just as the upper limit of the root of the world is fixed, the number of fire dewdrops in da ku kadate is fixed, as is the number of flowers in this sanctuary."
"The gears of the upper limits begin to turn. Limits are raised by the gears, and thou and I are separated by a dimension of power."

Eques tries to crush me with a force that seems to exceed the upper limits of order.
Here it's clear without Chief Gods and Conformity the world wouldn't evolve. Bubble worlds can't perceive the silver sea. Also, an additional note is that they can't even get out of bubbles Worlds without a travelling aka usage of ships. And those ships are created by chief gods. Chief gods transcend the bubble worlds. The world's reality is set by the upper limits of the order. Birth of Eques (chief God) in Militia World (5D) stated to surpass that set limits. Later, that world sinks into layer 1. Exceed means “transcend” in that context, and in Wiki, we always treat those two terms as the same.
Bubble world is small and not birted bubble if compare to silver bubble world. As long as the bubble world not evolve to silver bubble is impossible to proof their existance, thats mean in silver sea bubble world is nonexistance or not birted world, and the evolve to silver bubble is make the world exist

The gap between bubble and silver bubble is nonexistance and existance
The bubble world is small, unevolved world. In this silver water sacred sea, it can be said that it is a world that has not been born. Because there is no main god and head of state in the bubble world. Without the chief god, the order of the small world cannot be completely controlled, and without the head of state, the inhabitants of the small world will continue to fight. It's easy to imagine how it will end
Because it was a bubble world, it would have been impossible to prove the existance of Militia world
"The reason we do not return the fire dew to the Bubble World is because there are no silver lamps, so it is impossible to see inside from the outside. The Bubble World is not stable, and any attempt to enter it from the outside may result in a disturbance of the order, thus closing off the possibility of evolution."

"You are saying that just by entering it, it will be destroyed?"

"That may be the case. Above all, the bubbling world will have to let the returned fire dew out again. That would be like drawing water into a bucket with a hole in it. It is inefficient and is said to cause the loss of fire dew."
Just Trying to Entering the Bubble World itself stated to be able to destroy the bubble world.

Author Significantly differentiates between Bubble World & Silver Bubble World. Bubble World is set by an Upper Limit and can't be Evolved until the Chief God is Born and Goes Beyond that Limit like Eques did to Evolve. Bubble World is already 5D as Accepted by wiki. Transcending Bubble world (5D) would be 6D.

Summary:
  • Bubble World and Silver Bubbles are compared to Existence and Non Existential level like Elizha states this kinda qualifies for some level of R > F Difference by Tiering System FAQ.
  • Bubble World fire dew is so less it's insignificant to Calculate and even stated as impossible. Meanwhile Calculating the Silver Bubbles Fire dew is not a problem for Silver Bubbles inhabitants. Fire Dew is Equivalent to World Reality itself. To Inhabitants of Silver Bubbles the reality(fire dew) of Bubbles Worlds is insignificant. NOTE: As already scans above states Fire Dew is Reality of World itself.
  • So basically, for enter layer in silver sea that world must evolve to silver bubble, if not then the world will just perish. Is mean silver bubble is also inaccessible for bubble, just like higher dimension is inaccessible for lower dimension. Bubble cannot endure the existance of silver bubble
  • Just trying to enter the Bubble World is stated to be capable of destroying the Bubble World where you can easily enter and leave Silver Bubbles.
  • Eques who was supposed Chief God of Militia World existence itself is stated to be capable of destroying the bubble World ( Note he wasn't completely born. He is like half a$$ed Product) which shows Bubble World can't hold Chief God's Existence itself.
  • Eques Power is stated to be capable of Exceeding the Upper Limit of the Order. Which is impossible to do as Worlds order and Everything is set by Upper Limit as stated in the scans. Eques himself states Anos and him are divided by Dimensions. Meanwhile I agree with it's flowery language in some cases but not here as author here Clearly trying to display Transcendency as above supporting evidence points out Bubble world And Silver Bubbles difference.

Note: Transcend can have many meanings and Authors can use a variety of ways to display this. And even the Tiering System FAQ page states it. Here Eques Power is stated to Exceed the Upper Limit of Order of the World and World is already 5D. To Exceed/Transcend His Power should be 6D. Also Chief Gods themselves are the same as Silver Bubbles as one cannot exist without another.



So far there is no anti feats for these in the narrative. If there are any feel free to drop it here



Conclusion:

Bubble World is 5D as already accepted by Wiki. Silver Bubbles should be 6D as Evidence Provided above.
Click to expand...
I agree. The explanation makes sense to me.
 
Agree, although it's worth noting that while perceiving something as nonexistence is not necessarily R-F difference, it still portrays a form of qualitative superiority.
 
Delta333 said:
Agree, although it's worth noting that while perceiving something as nonexistence is not necessarily R-F difference, it still portrays a form of qualitative superiority.
Click to expand...
Well basically i think it more than just R>F difference, because even if that just a fiction it still exist whatever as 2D, mind/imagination...
 
Delta333 said:
Agree, although it's worth noting that while perceiving something as nonexistence is not necessarily R-F difference, it still portrays a form of qualitative superiority.
Click to expand...
Idk man, that’s kinda 50/50
I think a staff discussion about this would clear things up
 
"for enter layer in silver sea, that world must evolve to silver bubble. If not then the world will just perish.".I don't think this thıs statements is sufficient for R>F. It may not always be used in the sense of dimensional transcendence. This could mean that the silver bubbles are transcendent to the world, but this may not be dimensional (I mean R>F transcendence). In short, it should be stated in the verse that this is a dimensional transcendence.Or need more statements to support these arguments. So ı don't agree (I think insufficient compared to the wiki, my opinion may change.But for now, it would be best to wait Elizha.)
 
Georredannea15 said:
"for enter layer in silver sea, that world must evolve to silver bubble. If not then the world will just perish.".I don't think this thıs statements is sufficient for R>F. It may not always be used in the sense of dimensional transcendence. This could mean that the silver bubbles are transcendent to the world, but this may not be dimensional (I mean R>F transcendence). In short, it should be stated in the verse that this is a dimensional transcendence.Or need more statements to support these arguments. So ı don't agree (I think insufficient compared to the wiki, my opinion may change.But for now, it would be best to wait Elizha.)
Click to expand...
Thats not even the complete argument. Also where in the explanation page states only R > F gives higher dimensionality or there needs to be direct statement for dimensionality?
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Bu tam bir argüman bile değil. Ayrıca açıklama sayfasının neresinde sadece R > F daha yüksek boyutsallık verir veya boyutsallık için doğrudan açıklama olması gerekir
Click to expand...
I mean, that's not enough for R>F. As you said before, the word "transcend" has many meanings. So this does not mean an "inaccessibility". you need more than that. But like I said, we should wait for Elizha's ideas. (Also, R>F is a higher-lower set context. Like is the context between higher -dimension and lower - dimension.) In short, dimensionality indirectly has something to do with it.
 
Georredannea15 said:
I mean, that's not enough for R>F. As you said before, the word "transcend" has many meanings. So this does not mean an "inaccessibility". you need more than that. But like I said, we should wait for Elizha's ideas. (Also, R>F is a higher-lower set context. Like is the context between higher -dimension and lower - dimension.) In short, dimensionality indirectly has something to do with it.
Click to expand...
Where in the Wiki explaination page states you need a Direct statement for higher dimensionality? That's my question. Don't stone wall with unnecessary things.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Where in the Wiki explaination page states you need a Direct statement for higher dimensionality? That's my question. Don't stone wall with unnecessary things.
Click to expand...
you don't need a direct statement, but the context between them is similar. I mean you need more statements for R>F. I also explained that dimensional statements are only "indirectly" linked to R>F. I think you misunderstood me
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Where in the Wiki explaination page states you need a Direct statement for higher dimensionality? That's my question. Don't stone wall with unnecessary things.
Click to expand...
In short, there seems to be only a transcendence (superiority) in these statements. Not R>F .And I'm telling you for the last time. These are just my thoughts. ( hope you understand me.)
 
Georredannea15 said:
you don't need a direct statement, but the context between them is similar. I mean you need more statements for R>F. I also explained that dimensional statements are only "indirectly" linked to R>F. I think you misunderstood me
Click to expand...
Then stop asking for a direct statement.
Also can you point me out where in the wiki discussion threads staff made a rule for Only R > F grants you higher dimensional scaling?

Georredannea15 said:
In short, there seems to be only a transcendence (superiority) in these statements. Not R>F .And I'm telling you for the last time. These are just my thoughts. ( hope you understand me.)
Click to expand...
I will ask one more time Kindly point me out where did Wiki staffs made a rule that only R > F grants you higher dimensionality.

So you agree worlds being Transcended but you don't believe R > F? If so then you are literally conceding here. My Complete arguments isn't even about R > F.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Then stop asking for a direct statement.
Also can you point me out where in the wiki discussion threads staff made a rule for Only R > F grants you higher dimensional scaling?


I will ask one more time Kindly point me out where did Wiki staffs made a rule that only R > F grants you higher dimensionality.

So you agree worlds being Transcended but you don't believe R > F? If so then you are literally conceding here. My Complete arguments isn't even about R > F.
Click to expand...
Infinitely large is not enough for qualitative superiority. You should know this already . And the fact that one layer/world is qualitatively superior to the previous layer indicates that there is an R>F context between the layers. But it is not enough for it to be infinitely large. Also, R>F is a relatively dimensional (qualitative) superiority. Yes, I agree with transcendence. But I don't think this transcendence is R>F. It's just a non-R>F transcendence (so a non-qualitative superiority).
 
Georredannea15 said:
Infinitely large is not enough for qualitative superiority. You should know this already . And the fact that one layer/world is qualitatively superior to the previous layer indicates that there is an R>F context between the layers. But it is not enough for it to be infinitely large. Also, R>F is a relatively dimensional (qualitative) superiority. Yes, I agree with transcendence. But I don't think this transcendence is R>F. It's just a non-R>F transcendence (so a non-qualitative superiority).
Click to expand...
Stop stone walling and show me where in the wiki standards states only R > F grants higher dimensionality.

The fact you brought layers into bubbles discussion shows how much you have read the OP. Feel free to show me where did I put any arguments based on layers difference in the OP?
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Duvar örmeyi bırakın ve bana wiki standartlarında yalnızca R > F'nin daha yüksek boyutsallık sağladığının belirtildiği yeri gösterin.

Katmanları baloncuklar tartışmasına getirdiğiniz gerçeği, OP'yi ne kadar okuduğunuzu gösterir. OP'deki katman farkına dayalı herhangi bir argümanı nereye koyduğumu bana göstermekten çekinmeyin.
Click to expand...
Sanırım beni anlamıyorsunuz. Bu ifadeler R>F için yeterli değil.

Ayrıca R>F varsa niteliksel üstünlük de vardır.​

 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Duvar örmeyi bırakın ve bana wiki standartlarında yalnızca R > F'nin daha yüksek boyutsallık sağladığının belirtildiği yeri gösterin.

Katmanları baloncuklar tartışmasına getirdiğiniz gerçeği, OP'yi ne kadar okuduğunuzu gösterir. OP'deki katman farkına dayalı herhangi bir argümanı nereye koyduğumu bana göstermekten çekinmeyin.
Click to expand...
I guess you don't understand me. These statements are not sufficient for R>F. There is also qualitative superiorit if R>F. And qualitative superiority is also dimensional transcendence. Btw, no direct statements of dimensional transcendence or qualitative superiority are needed for R>F. But these arguments are not enough for R>F. What I mean by "transcendence" here is simply "superiority". Not R>F. You need more than that to be R>F.
 
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Anyways, this whole thing is weird and Eldemade has aggression escalation issues which I do not want to deal with. So just put me for disagree and that is all.

Most of the R>F transcendence relies on the fire shenanigans which crumble the moment you realize that they do not literally equate to 0. Fire is just a metaphysical measure of "reality" itself, which is too low to be measured by the silver bubble worlds. That is all. By this same logic we would treat countless (too many to be counted) as infinite when we don't. Ofc you can just ignore the scan where it says it is simply too low to be measured and pick and choose but that would be bad would it not?

-----------------------

The rest of the points not actually prove anything and are just decorations. If they can't stand at all on their own why even bring them up? Who knows. OP should really just be this.

  • Bubble World and Silver Bubbles are compared to Existence and Non Existential level like Elizha states this kinda qualifies for some level of R > F Difference by Tiering System FAQ. Bubble World fire dew is so less it's insignificant to Calculate and even stated as impossible. Meanwhile Calculating the Silver Bubbles Fire dew is not a problem for Silver Bubbles inhabitants. Fire Dew is Equivalent to World Reality itself. To Inhabitants of Silver Bubbles the reality(fire dew) of Bubbles Worlds is insignificant. NOTE: As already scans above states Fire Dew is Reality of World itself.
Click to expand...

Because.


  • So basically, for enter layer in silver sea that world must evolve to silver bubble, if not then the world will just perish. Is mean silver bubble is also inaccessible for bubble, just like higher dimension is inaccessible for lower dimension. Bubble cannot endure the existance of silver bubble
Click to expand...
Correlation between a shared ability does not indicate it shares a common causation like at all, lol. A higher-inaccecible world that does not qualify for vsbw dimensional connotations are very common. Decoration for main argument.

  • Just trying to enter the Bubble World is stated to be capable of destroying the Bubble World where you can easily enter and leave Silver Bubbles.
Click to expand...

Do I really need to explain this one? This is not even a requirement for dimensional increase stuff, let alone good evidence.

  • Eques Power is stated to be capable of Exceeding the Upper Limit of the Order. Which is impossible to do as Worlds order and Everything is set by Upper Limit as stated in the scans. Eques himself states Anos and him are divided by Dimensions. Meanwhile I agree with it's flowery language in some cases but not here as author here Clearly trying to display Transcendency as above supporting evidence points out Bubble world And Silver Bubbles difference.
Click to expand...

This is just flowery language trying to get stretched out to be supporting evidence by using the main argument as supporting evidence? Which is then used to back up the main argument which is then used to back up the supporting argument which is then used to back up the main argument which is then used to back up the supporting argument... and so on.
 
Georredannea15 said:
Infinitely large is not enough for qualitative superiority. You should know this already . And the fact that one layer/world is qualitatively superior to the previous layer indicates that there is an R>F context between the layers. But it is not enough for it to be infinitely large. Also, R>F is a relatively dimensional (qualitative) superiority. Yes, I agree with transcendence. But I don't think this transcendence is R>F. It's just a non-R>F transcendence (so a non-qualitative superiority).
Click to expand...
^ I agree with this. I am going to get roasted for disagreeing.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
flowery language
Click to expand...
:danu:

Flowery ritsu?
 
PhantomØ4 said:
Anyways, this whole thing is weird and Eldemade has aggression escalation issues which I do not want to deal with. So just put me for disagree and that is all.
Click to expand...
You do the same thing in Mondaji but Okay 👍
PhantomØ4 said:
Most of the R>F transcendence relies on the fire shenanigans which crumble the moment you realize that they do not literally equate to 0. Fire is just a metaphysical measure of "reality" itself, which is too low to be measured by the silver bubble worlds. That is all. By this same logic we would treat countless (too many to be counted) as infinite when we don't. Ofc you can just ignore the scan where it says it is simply too low to be measured and pick and choose but that would be bad would it not?
Click to expand...
It does and even Dereck explained this in previous threads. If you want to ignore that's not my problem. Fire Dew of Silver Bubbles are even used to play Shogi where Bubble world fire dew couldn't even be able to calculate it's existence. It's just show how insignificant Bubbles are to Silver Bubbles.

Silver Bubble fire dew can be measured with no problem
"Because it's inefficient to measure all of the small world's order and the amount of magic power it possesses, we'll use the amount of fire dew it possesses to determine the hierarchy. The more fire dew a small world has, the deeper it is located."
Location is not a matter of place, but of the strength of order in that world.
Click to expand...
If you lose the fire dew, the world will be destroyed.
The amount of fire dew is directly related to the amount of magic power in the entire small world.
Using the fire dew as pawns would indeed be equivalent to using the world itself as a pawn.
Click to expand...
PhantomØ4 said:
The rest of the points not actually prove anything and are just decorations. If they can't stand at all on their own why even bring them up? Who knows. OP should really just be this.
Click to expand...
I don't understand what you mean by this
PhantomØ4 said:
Because.
Click to expand...
PhantomØ4 said:
Correlation between a shared ability does not indicate it shares a common causation like at all, lol. A higher-inaccecible world that does not qualify for vsbw dimensional connotations are very common. Decoration for main argument.
Click to expand...
It's does logically
PhantomØ4 said:
Do I really need to explain this one? This is not even a requirement for dimensional increase stuff, let alone good evidence.
Click to expand...
Yes this qualifies because This just shows Bubble world existence being insignificant to Silver Bubbles
PhantomØ4 said:
This is just flowery language trying to get stretched out to be supporting evidence by using the main argument as supporting evidence? Which is then used to back up the main argument which is then used to back up the supporting argument which is then used to back up the main argument which is then used to back up the supporting argument... and so on.
Click to expand...
This is not flowery Language. I literally put the scans where it's clearly mentioned there is an upper Limit in the World and you can't go beyond that. Beside Eques clearly mentioned both Anos and him being dividend By dimensions of force and Anos also states his power exceeds the upper limits of the order. Order is what makes up the reality in the world.
 
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Georredannea15 said:
Insignificant or infinitely large, not sufficient for R>F. That's exactly what I meant
Click to expand...
For the last time R > F is not necessary to scale.
Furthermore, higher-dimensional entities can also qualify for higher tiers when the verse which they are from explicitly defines them as being infinitely above lower-dimensional ones in power and/or existential status.
Click to expand...
vsbattles.fandom.com

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
The only serious question would be.... Which would be the difference between bubbles and silver bubbles?
 
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