4-B Kaguya (this is useless and I'm wasting my time 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥)

[DavidTPPM]

IT Kaguya is currently 5-B, 4-C over time with ETSO by scaling to recreating the dimension. I went a step back and calculated the total energy contained in a TSO of that size.

The new results are 4-B overtime, high 5-A combat applicable.

Basically IT Kaguyas AP goes from this

Planet level (Kaguya would be putting at least this much energy per second into her Expansive Truth Seeker Orb[Note 2]), up to Star level overtime with Expansive Truth Seeker Orb (Kaguya's Expansive Truth Seeker Orb was going to recreate a dimension with a star in it over a period of time)

To this

Brown Dwarf level (Kaguya would be putting at least this much energy per second into her Expansive Truth Seeker Orb), up to Solar System level overtime with Expansive Truth Seeker Orb (Kaguya's Expansive Truth Seeker Orb was going to destroy a dimension with a star in it over a period of time)

Or something like that, idk. Basically just swapping the current calc for the new calc

Votes:
Agree (the correct option): LordGriffin1000, DarkDragonMedeus, UchihaSlayer96
Disagree (the cringe option):

Neutral (achieves nothing, just like this thread): Damage3245

 

[Da3ggman]

Nah you see, it's wrong because Naruto can't get past Planet Level

But fr, I don't see anything wrong if the calc is accepted.

 

[Samlex1234]

Following

 

[Emerald]

Dont TSO have like EE? Why should the energy of them destroying a forest be considered if they dura neg?

 

[Damage3245]

It seems to be a bit of an assumption to me that the user of the Truth-Seeking Orbs is incapable of making them bigger without putting more chakra / energy into them?

We've seen how the users of the Truth-Seeking Orbs can reshape them and freely increase their volume like when Obito made massive constructs out of his.

So I'm not fully convinced that Kaguya creating a Solar System sized Truth-Seeking Orb like this means that she has to be outputting Brown Dwarf levels of AP with every second that it is growing.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Dont TSO have like EE? Why should the energy of them destroying a forest be considered if they dura neg?

The way the databook puts it sounds more like the energy inside of them is enough to obliterate a forest rather than the TSO itself. The databook even notes the chakra in the TSO is condensed to support this further.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

It seems to be a bit of an assumption to me that the user of the Truth-Seeking Orbs is incapable of making them bigger without putting more chakra / energy into them?

We've seen how the users of the Truth-Seeking Orbs can reshape them and freely increase their volume like when Obito made massive constructs out of his.

So I'm not fully convinced that Kaguya creating a Solar System sized Truth-Seeking Orb like this means that she has to be outputting Brown Dwarf levels of AP with every second that it is growing.

I never found this particularly convincing either tbh.

Also, last I checked, we were only calculating the dimension being recreated because the destruction bit was EE, right? Or did the standards on that change while I was away.

 

[DavidTPPM]

It seems to be a bit of an assumption to me that the user of the Truth-Seeking Orbs is incapable of making them bigger without putting more chakra / energy into them?

TSOs can expand, but there's no evidence Kaguya does so, or even that she can with the ETSO.
Although honestly that would probably yield higher results via KE.

So I'm not fully convinced that Kaguya creating a Solar System sized Truth-Seeking Orb like this means that she has to be outputting Brown Dwarf levels of AP with every second that it is growing.

The issue is that the only way to say she's doing something else is to create a completely baseless assumption like Kaguya moving the TSO around for whatever reason. Which would yield completely different (likely higher ngl) results.
But we can't calc those because like I said, it's a completely baseless assumption.

 

[Samlex1234]

Existence Erasure

Existence Erasure is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization. Rather than just reducing something to its constituent parts, this ability leaves absolutely nothing behind. Powerful...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[DavidTPPM]

I never found this particularly convincing either tbh.

Also, last I checked, we were only calculating the dimension being recreated because the destruction bit was EE, right? Or did the standards on that change while I was away.

The calc doesn't focus on the destruction of the dimension but on the size of the TSO.
Basically the databook tells us small TSO = X value.
So the calc is just small value*big TSO = energy inside of big TSO

 

[Samlex1234]

The calc doesn't focus on the destruction of the dimension but on the size of the TSO.
Basically the databook tells us small TSO = X value.
So the calc is just small value*big TSO = energy inside of big TSO

Interesting argument.

 

[Samlex1234]

I never found this particularly convincing either tbh.

Also, last I checked, we were only calculating the dimension being recreated because the destruction bit was EE, right? Or did the standards on that change while I was away.

Just asking can't she get 4b with EE?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Just asking can't she get 4b with EE?

She can, but I think it counts towards Environmental Destruction or something like that.

 

[Samlex1234]

@DavidTPPM

I think your argument is quite convincing. However, I have the feat rated much higher than this. I’m fine with agreeing for now until I finalize my arguments. Don’t forget to include the value from creation as well, since the ETSO was going to both destroy and create.
Energy from destroying a dimension with a star
Plus Energy from creating a dimension with a star

Basically it make no sense to say Kaguya will take 15 years to destroy her dimensions and 15 years to create them again. Thus, we will be assuming that she is doing both in the span of 15 years.

Note - what is important here is the energy required to perform both feat in the span of 15 years.

 

[Samlex1234]

Also

@DavidTPPM

I think your argument is quite convincing. However, I have the feat rated much higher than this. I’m fine with agreeing for now until I finalize my arguments. Don’t forget to include the value from creation as well, since the ETSO was going to both destroy and create.
Energy from destroying a dimension with a star
Plus Energy from creating a dimension with a star

Basically it make no sense to say Kaguya will take 15 years to destroy her dimensions and 15 years to create them again. Thus, we will be assuming that she is doing both in the span of 15 years.

Note - what is important here is the energy required to perform both feat in the span of 15 years.

Also, is Kaguya EE resistant? As she would have to resist her own attack.

 

[Floxy178]

The calc doesn't focus on the destruction of the dimension but on the size of the TSO.
Basically the databook tells us small TSO = X value.
So the calc is just small value*big TSO = energy inside of big TSO

Just use 149 million km as radius

 

[Floxy178]

It seems to be a bit of an assumption to me that the user of the Truth-Seeking Orbs is incapable of making them bigger without putting more chakra / energy into them?

We've seen how the users of the Truth-Seeking Orbs can reshape them and freely increase their volume like when Obito made massive constructs out of his.

Probably they do it via putting energy too. It would be nonsense if they were capable of increasing volume as they want without putting any energy.

 

[HelloThere1089]

I have a question. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the planet to star distance should be the radius right? Why is half of it the radius in your calc? The yield should be 8x above what it is.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I never found this particularly convincing either tbh.

Also, last I checked, we were only calculating the dimension being recreated because the destruction bit was EE, right? Or did the standards on that change while I was away.

Doesn't the EE page say that it's superior to other forms of destruction meaning that it does have AP?

"Existence Erasure is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization."

And this part seems to pertain to TSOs

"Note, also, that Existence Erasure can be listed as conventional Attack Potency, as opposed to simple Environmental Destruction, if the character has demonstrated the ability to employ it in a fashion resembling regular attacks (E.g. Focusing it though energy beams and the like)."

 

[Qawsedf234]

I have a question. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the planet to star distance should be the radius right? Why is half of it the radius in your calc? The yield should be 8x above what it is.

It shouldn't be the astronomical unit distance unless it was the size of the solar system. The actual calc using this method would be: ETSB Volume / TSB Volume * TSB Energy.

 

[HelloThere1089]

It shouldn't be the astronomical unit distance unless it was the size of the solar system.

Isn't that the standard assumption tho for a planet to star distance? If not, then what is the standard assumption?

The actual calc using this method would be: ETSB Volume / TSB Volume * TSB Energy.

Yeah. The ETSB volume would depend on the size of the dimension. Which is what I am asking about.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Isn't that the standard assumption tho for a planet to star distance?

For destroying both, yes. But that wouldn't give you size of the ETSB, but the explosive radius.

The ETSB volume would depend on the size of the dimension.

If the assumption is that the ETSB was going to explode before she was sealed, then it's maximum size was what we saw in the manga.

 

[HelloThere1089]

For destroying both, yes. But that wouldn't give you size of the ETSB, but the explosive radius.


If the assumption is that the ETSB was going to explode before she was sealed, then it's maximum size was what we saw in the manga.

The size of the ETSB is what destroys the dimension. It's not gonna explode. The calc is saying a small TSO has a forest destroying energy, so ETSO would scale according to it's volume. I am neutral on this logic tho so no comment. I am saying if we grant this, why does the calc assume that 1AU is the diameter, instead of the radius like it should be. I am not arguing about the assumptions about the mechanics of the jutsu.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Doesn't the EE page say that it's superior to other forms of destruction meaning that it does have AP?

"Existence Erasure is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization."

It's superior in the sense that it completely erases a physical object completely, leaving absolutely no trace. While the other forms of destruction don't destroy the object completely, but still leave some component of it behind, ie. vapor, molecules, atoms, etc. But as far as using EE in calcs, it doesn't have a destruction value we can use like vaporization does for example. It's purely hax in that sense. At least that's how I personally understand it, maybe I'm wrong.

And this part seems to pertain to TSOs

"Note, also, that Existence Erasure can be listed as conventional Attack Potency, as opposed to simple Environmental Destruction, if the character has demonstrated the ability to employ it in a fashion resembling regular attacks (E.g. Focusing it though energy beams and the like)."

Maybe the TSO, but definitely not the ETSO.

 

[Floxy178]

The size of the ETSB is what destroys the dimension. It's not gonna explode. The calc is saying a small TSO has a forest destroying energy, so ETSO would scale according to it's volume. I am neutral on this logic tho so no comment. I am saying if we grant this, why does the calc assume that 1AU is the diameter, instead of the radius like it should be. I am not arguing about the assumptions about the mechanics of the jutsu.

I asked him when he created blog, he said that he used most lowballed variant, but according to this ETSO wouldn't destroy earth tho(it wouldn't even expand from its center)

 

[HelloThere1089]

I asked him when he created blog, he said that he used most lowballed variant, but according to this ETSO wouldn't destroy earth tho(it wouldn't even expand from its center)

What do you mean? I am so confused rn. Does the ETSO destroy the dimension by sheer size or no? If yes, then the absolute lowball size of the dimension needs to have 1 AU as the radius.

 

[Floxy178]

What do you mean? I am so confused rn. Does the ETSO destroy the dimension by sheer size or no? If yes, then the absolute lowball size of the dimension needs to have 1 AU as the radius.

Ik, what I wrote after is my reasoning, not David's.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Ah, my bad then. Anyways as long as the math is fixed or someone gives an alternate explanation for why the yield is correct, I will see myself out.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The size of the ETSB is what destroys the dimension

What says that? Why wouldn't it just explode and recreate everything?

 

[HelloThere1089]

What says that? Why wouldn't it just explode and recreate everything?

Idk. The logic is that the manga states the ETSO would expand and destroy the dimension they are in. That's why it's called the Expansive Truth Seeker Orb. If it were just an explosion then we wouldn't have this overtime bs anyway and the ETSO would have only one tier 4 key.

Anyways that's not why I commented here. I don't care to argue for or against the mechanics of the jutsu like I stated in my previous reply. I only wanted to correct the math under the presupposition that the mechanics are agreed upon. If y'all decide otherwise then I have no issue.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The logic is that the manga states the ETSO would expand and destroy the dimension they are in.

I'm not seeing that

Hidden inside those orbs is the power to easily obliterate an entire forest

Comprised of all five elements and yin-yang, it had the power to obliterate the world and return it to nothing.

The Databook is talking about the power contained inside the orb, that when it explodes, can destroy the dimension.

It would just be an Earth based spherical explosion afaik. Which is like 4-B based off the Super Perfect Cell calc.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

It's superior in the sense that it completely erases a physical object completely, leaving absolutely no trace. While the other forms of destruction don't destroy the object completely, but still leave some component of it behind, ie. vapor, molecules, atoms, etc. But as far as using EE in calcs, it doesn't have a destruction value we can use like vaporization does for example. It's purely hax in that sense. At least that's how I personally understand it, maybe I'm wrong.

Calling it superior in "destruction" while not being lowballed as equal to other forms of destruction is weird but idk the standards

Maybe the TSO, but definitely not the ETSO.

I mean it's a different application, but it is the same material as TSOs which qualifies for traditional AP. I suppose it doesn't make too big a difference either way since Kaguya uses it in an environmental destruction like way.

 

[HelloThere1089]

I'm not seeing that


The Databook is talking about the power contained inside the orb, that when it explodes, can destroy the dimension.

It would just be an Earth based spherical explosion afaik. Which is like 4-B based off the Super Perfect Cell calc.

Like I said previously, idrc. It's on OP to justify the mechanics of the jutsu.

Edit: @DavidTPPM do your job.

 

[Floxy178]

I'm not seeing that


The Databook is talking about the power contained inside the orb, that when it explodes, can destroy the dimension.

It would just be an Earth based spherical explosion afaik. Which is like 4-B based off the Super Perfect Cell calc.

ETSO doesn't explode, it just has energy inside of it.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

This not getting past bro
but the logic checks out

 

[Samlex1234]

This not getting past bro
but the logic checks out

Why do you think so?
If the logic checks out. Why shouldn't it get past?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Why do you think so?
If the logic checks out. Why shouldn't it get past?

goons are gonna goon lol

 

[Samlex1234]

goons are gonna goon lol

Well, if this CRT is closed without a solid counter—though I doubt that will happen—then I rest my case……

 

[Samlex1234]

https://vsbattles.com/members/31717/

David, please come and address these issues..

 

[Livinmeme]

You are on VSBW, you are wasting your time nonetheless