2B and YorHa changes

[TheAngryOrange]

Hello. There are some changes I feel should be made to 2B, 9S, and A2. I will list the proposed changes and the reasons below. While the suggested changes are for all YorHa for simplicity sake I will be focusing on 2B.

Changes:
2B specific:
In the case of 2B, hacking shouldn't be listed as a weakness. In the novella, 2B has a closed circuit logic virus trap that will infect any attempted hackers and should be listed as a notable attack.

YoRHa Specific:
Telekinesis should be changed as it is not limited to weapon manipulation. Logic viruses should be listed as a weakness as opposed to just viruses. YorHa should also have acrobatics as a skill. Another skill is energy projection and manipulation or whatever term is used to describe the creation of solid objects out of energy.

Stats:
Her physical strength is Class T.


Her telekinetic strength is at minimum Class G. Potentially class T.


Her reaction time and her speed is FTL+.

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There is an instance where 9S reacted to an EMP. Despite being caught off guard, he still manages to summon a shield.


9S reacting to the emp at 8:10 :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur6blv6Wl_I&t=490s



YorHa are also able to jump over twelve storeys into the air.








We see their use of telekinesis is not limited to manipulating their weapons. We see 9S form a gauntlet out of concrete.





And 9S's melee attacks are telekinetic blasts.





And we see that the telekinesis be applied to items such as a simple iron pipe or the heads of deceased machines.





Resurrection is not limited but mind transfer to a new body upon death but also if the Reset chip is equipped.


In the case of 2B, hacking shouldn't be listed as a weakness. In the novella, 2B has a closed circuit logic virus trap that will infect any attempted hackers put in place specifically because of her mission regarding 9S. In this case 9S, who excels at hacking, hacked her and was destroyed as a result. I also believe this should be listed as a notable attack. This is also only for 2B. A2 and 9S do not have this.

Memory Cage

Memory Cage, also known as Cage of Memories, is a novella from NieR:Automata - Short Story Long and NieR:Automata World Guide Volume 1. Official translation from NieR:Automata World Guide Volume 1. Written by Jun Eishima[1] Translation by TransPerfect[2] YoRHa No.2 Type B YoRHa No.9 Type S Pod...

nier.fandom.com

Logic viruses should be listed as a weakness as opposed to just viruses as the logic virus doesn't operate in the same manner as a normal computer virus and are tied to the watchers from Drakengard and the red eye disease.



YorHa should also have acrobatics as a skill. Another skill is energy projection and manipulation or whatever term is used to describe the creation of solid objects out of energy. We see this not only when she uses hammer, blade, and spear where she creates solid masses of energy to use as weapons but also when she goes fishing and creates a stool to sit on or bands to carry her weapons.


Calculations for speed and strength can be found below

Physical Strength: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:TheAngryOrange/2B_Blocks_Engles

Telekinetic Strength: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:TheAngryOrange/Calculating_2B's_telekinetic_strength_Revised

Dodging Lasers: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:TheAngryOrange/2B_Dodging_Lasers

Dodging EMP's: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:TheAngryOrange/2B_Dodging_EMP

Dodging Beam weapons: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:TheAngryOrange/Dodging_Beam_Weapons

Supporting Speed Feats: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:TheAngryOrange/YoRHa_Speed_Feats

Speed when modified with Chips: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:TheAngryOrange/2B_Speed_With_Chips

 

[Dalesean027]

As much as I'd love to agree to these I'm going to have to ask for scans for the feats and abilities you're talking about and you need to blog those calc's and get them approved(hope I don't sound rude or disingenuous to the work you already put in)

It'd be nice to get some upgrade

 

[TheAngryOrange]

As much as I'd love to agree to these I'm going to have to ask for scans for the feats and abilities you're talking about and you need to blog those calc's and get them approved(hope I don't sound rude or disingenuous to the work you already put in)

It'd be nice to get some upgrade

Something like this?
I've edited the original post to include the links. But I'll post them here too for posterity. And here is also the link to the blog. How do I get it approved?

A translated copy of the Memory Cage: https://nier.fandom.com/wiki/Memory_Cage
9S reacting to the emp at 8:10 : https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=Ur6blv6Wl_I

^ remove the space. I didn't like the giant thumnail.

 

[Dalesean027]

Something like this?
I've edited the original post to include the links. But I'll post them here too for posterity. And here is also the link to the blog. How do I get it approved?

A translated copy of the Memory Cage: https://nier.fandom.com/wiki/Memory_Cage
9S reacting to the emp at 8:10 : https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=Ur6blv6Wl_I

^ remove the space. I didn't like the giant thumnail.

Calculation blog: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:TheAngryOrange/Calculating_2B's_strength_and_speed

Post the blog here and wait for the calc to be reviewed and being honest it will take some time

Calculation Evaluations (New forum)

This thread is intended for users to link to new blog post calculations, to relay them to the community, and have them evaluated by the calculation group, without contacting the members individually. To evaluate important off-site calculations, preferably copy them to blog posts in this wiki...

vsbattles.com

9S may need a calc but the scan but the scan seems to be fine

 

[Nierre]

Following

We need Nier Replicant pages

 

[Dalesean027]

Following

We need Nier Replicant pages

We really do I was surprised there was a lack of them

 

[TheAngryOrange]

Done. And I updated some of the calculations. Cross our fingers this won't take long. Was so stuck on her invisibility I forgot you can make her dodge point blank EMP's in game. Yeah, Nier isn't exactly a popular franchise and there's not much to work with.

Also, the speed and strength I came up with is bigger than the current so I wonder if this is enough for a tier change.

 

[Dalesean027]

Any word on these calc's?

 

[TheAngryOrange]

Any word on these calc's?

Nothing so far. Got asked if I had any AP calculations and I said no but that's it.

 

[TheAngryOrange]

I know you said that it would take time for the calcs to be approved but I don't suppose there's a way to speed up the process.

 

[Dalesean027]

I know you said that it would take time for the calcs to be approved but I don't suppose there's a way to speed up the process.

Have you bumped the calc?

 

[TheAngryOrange]

Have you bumped the calc?

I've bumped it once for calc changes. I've just bumped it again.

 

[Dalesean027]

I've bumped it once for calc changes. I've just bumped it again.

Yeah then at that point I'll say you should probably just personally dm a calc mod

 

[TheAngryOrange]

Yeah then at that point I'll say you should probably just personally dm a calc mod

I don't know who any of the calc mods are. I don't suppose you can direct me to a list or something?

 

[Dalesean027]

I don't know who any of the calc mods are. I don't suppose you can direct me to a list or something?

Off the top of my head Damage3245, KieranH10, KLOL are all people who could probably evaluate this

 

[TheRustyOne]

I think their attack potency should scale to So-Shi's durability since 2B solo's it (so "At least City level, likely Mountain level").

Their durability should scale to Grun's attack potency since we see 2B and 9S survive a hit from it (so "At most Small Country level+").

So-Shi's durability scales to 2B, they were originally City level, likely Mountain level but were downgraded to High 7-C+.

So-Shi and other profiles were just forgotten, and no one downgraded them to High 7-C+. I don't see any calculations on their profiles, so I believe that is correct.

Small Country level would be an outlier for 2B and 9S, as 7-A was seen as an outlier, and Low 6-B would be one too. Also Grun is only Low 6-B with the Kinetic Energy of its entire body, aka its charging power. Any other method of attacking is not Low 6-B, but should be High 7-C+ via hurting 2B and 9S.

 

[TheAngryOrange]

So-Shi's durability scales to 2B, they were originally City level, likely Mountain level but were downgraded to High 7-C+.

So-Shi and other profiles were just forgotten, and no one downgraded them to High 7-C+. I don't see any calculations on their profiles, so I believe that is correct.

Small Country level would be an outlier for 2B and 9S, as 7-A was seen as an outlier, and Low 6-B would be one too. Also Grun is only Low 6-B with the Kinetic Energy of its entire body, aka its charging power. Any other method of attacking is not Low 6-B, but should be High 7-C+ via hurting 2B and 9S.

Fair enough. I didn't know who scales to who. I've removed the suggestions.

 

[Nierre]

Oh yeah the androids should also have acrobatics on their profiles

 

[TheAngryOrange]

I've listed that in the post. Just so we can keep all suggestions in one place.

I've reached out to Damage3245, KieranH10, and left messages on their walls. No word from them though. And I cannot find a KLOL.

 

[TheAngryOrange]

Bumping this. Still hoping someone will see it.

 

[TheAngryOrange]

Leaving a post here to another post regarding Nier speeds with similar conclusions. This way someone sees one they'll see the other.

 

[TheAngryOrange]

Going off of feedback I've received, I've broken down the large calculation page to several smaller pages.

 

[TheAngryOrange]

Is there a way to open an back/forth dialogue with the calc mods? Cuz some of the feedback I've received is...confusing. I'm not hellbent on what I found. As shown here I'm willing to renege on my findings and I have on several of them already. But the feedback I've received on some is contradicted by another thing I put forward or contradicted by something that was already accepted. If there is an issue with something the biggest two things I'm looking for is why and what should I bring forth in its place?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Is there a way to open an back/forth dialogue with the calc mods? Cuz some of the feedback I've received is...confusing. I'm not hellbent on what I found. As shown here I'm willing to renege on my findings. But the feedback I've received is is contradicted by another thing I put forward or contradicted by something that was already accepted. If there is an issue with something the biggest two things I'm looking for is why and what should I bring forth in its place?

I'm not sure how tbh, I guess different mods are just gonna have different opinions.

What feats do you need evaluating

 

[TheAngryOrange]

I'm not sure how tbh, I guess different mods are just gonna have different opinions.

What feats do you need evaluating

The laser and EMP dodging. You've heard me bring it up before but the feedback confuses me.

I was first told that dodging lasers be avoiding aiming lines don't count. But my videos show that's not what I do and I also dodge lasers that don't have aiming lines. I was told that the EMP was too slow. And yes the EMP in cutscene moved relatively slowly (that is arguably to make sure the viewer can clearly see what's happening) but the one in game takes 1 frame to move. So is it only the cutscene EMP and the game one is ok? Is it both? And now I've been told that these lasers don't count as light speed which confuses me as before I came the lasers were already accepted as light speed.

Like I said (and for others who read this) I'm not married to the idea. I'm not opposed to reneging. I've done it already (and I repeat my apology to the one calc mod. I left a message in the wiki reply and one on his board but when I came back the forum said I didn't post anything so I posted again merely for the first to show up resulting in three messages). Even on this thread I rolled back on my suggestions. But I'd like to have a clearer understanding of why especially since what I was told is contradicted by something else.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

The laser and EMP dodging. You've heard me bring it up before but the feedback confuses me.

I was first told that dodging lasers be avoiding aiming lines don't count. But my videos show that's not what I do and I also dodge lasers that don't have aiming lines. I was told that the EMP was too slow. And yes the EMP in cutscene moved relatively slowly (that is arguably to make sure the viewer can clearly see what's happening) but the one in game takes 1 frame to move. So is it only the cutscene EMP and the game one is ok? Is it both? And now I've been told that these lasers don't count as light speed which confuses me as before I came the lasers were already accepted as light speed.

Like I said (and for others who read this) I'm not married to the idea. I'm not opposed to reneging. I've done it already (and I repeat my apology to the one calc mod. I left a message in the wiki reply and one on his board but when I came back the forum said I didn't post anything so I posted again merely for the first to show up resulting in three messages). Even on this thread I rolled back on my suggestions. But I'd like to have a clearer understanding of why especially since what I was told is contradicted by something else.

I'll try get it re-evaluated tomorrow

 

[TheAngryOrange]

I'll try get it re-evaluated tomorrow

Appreciated. Just make sure they understand the biggest things I'm looking for is if no then why and what should I present in its place. There might be nothing I can present if the why covers it. And point them to the speed feats list since that links out to my three calculations.

(And for others who read this). I'm not trying to scrounge for a calc mod that agrees with me. Even the same one that disagreed just needs to get me a why that isn't contradicted. Right now I'm just scratching my head in confusion.

 

[TheAngryOrange]

I'll try get it re-evaluated tomorrow

any word?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

any word?

In a bit. But overall, what are the current proposed ratings if these will be accepted?

I'm unsure if we should consider Overtime as a speed feat, it looks more time manipulation tbh.

 

[TheAngryOrange]

In a bit. But overall, what are the current proposed ratings if these will be accepted?

I'm unsure if we should consider Overtime as a speed feat, it looks more time manipulation tbh.

Well I did put overclock on its own page. I thought it was the androids overlocking their systems (hence the name) which results in faster movement and perception. If it is time manipulation, not too late for me to remove it from the suggestions list. But that's a discussion for another time.

I linked out calculations on the list page which will have to be approved one by one but to summarize (and as a reminder for other readers that the lasers have been accepted as light speed already).

Machine laser dodging.
Low estimate: FTL
Upper estimate: FTL+ (because of how thick the laser is.)

EMP dodging
Low estimate: SoL
Upper estimate: FTL+ (Upper estimate was the result of formulas taken from the wiki. But I acknowledge that once you react to the EMP, you only need to maintain lightspeed to keep out of it).

9S EMP blocking
No calculations and Grun was a good distance from the shore. So I estimate SoL

A2, Adam, & Eve blocking/dodging lasers and the laser dodging description from the novel
No calculations and the lasers are thin this time. I estimate FTL. Other pages when they have a character react to a light speed attack they get FTL in the absence of calculations)

Nanosecond processing
Low estimate: Relativistic
Upper estimate: FTL (sub relativistic reaction speeds also cover nanoseconds but those cover tens to hundreds of nanoseconds as opposed to the described 'some spare nanoseconds' Even the lower range of relativistic covers tens of nanoseconds)

Beam weapon dodging:
Lower estimate: Sub relativistic+
Upper estimate: Relativistic

Dodging point blank explosions
No calculations. But another page of a character pulling a similar feat was marked as massively hypersonic+.

Dodging YoRHa flight units
Estimate: Massively Hypersonic. An already accepted calculation had the flight units to be massively hypersonic.

 

[TheAngryOrange]

I'll try get it re-evaluated tomorrow

any word

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

This and this has been evaluated.

This and this haven't

 

[TheAngryOrange]

This and this has been evaluated.

This and this haven't

Appreciated. And apologies for my impatience.

YoRHa Boys provide you with anything? (This sentence sounds so wrong without context).

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Appreciated. And apologies for my impatience.

YoRHa Boys provide you with anything? (This sentence sounds so wrong without context).

Lmao. Not really anything so far. I am considering making pages for the YoRHa boys. Characters like the attackers, gunners and 2D should definitely above the likes of 9S.

Also I should point out 2B is implied to kill Gunner number 4, who overpowered attacker number 3.

I think this backs E models generally being stronger than normal models as well as A2 being much stronger than any attacker model despite being old.

 

[Nierre]

replicant pages when

 

[TheAngryOrange]

replicant pages when

Well there are pages for Devola, Popola, Emil, and Kaine. So I guess the only ones missing would be Nier himself and the bosses.

 

[Nierre]

oh i never noticed there was a page for kaine

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Well there are pages for Devola, Popola, Emil, and Kaine. So I guess the only ones missing would be Nier himself and the bosses.

The current replicant pages are ass tbh. They have practically no scans and no calls to back them up.

And tbh, I feel like they should downscale from High 7-C and scale to Popola and Devola

 

[TheAngryOrange]

The current replicant pages are ass tbh. They have practically no scans and no calls to back them up.

I feel that's how a lot of the Nier pages are. Probably because the game's aren't all that popular so you don't have all that many ppl to clean them up.

 

[TheAngryOrange]

I guess I'll give an update. So, the physical and telekinetic calculations have been approved. What do we do to get those two and the other recommended changes up?
The speed has not yet been approved. I'm currently working on that. First step is to get the EMP and lasers to be approved as light speed. Made a thread right here

https://vsbattles.com/threads/proposal-nier-automata-lasers-emp-should-count-as-light-speed.132613/

Not entirely clear on what to do but it seems I'll be looking for staff and others to support before I get a calc mod for the thumbs up.