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2-B Undertale is a literal headcanon

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You do realize that most of likely/possibly ratings on this wiki are based off a single line as well?

Those ratings are given if one or more lines of evidence are vague to the point that arguing a certain tier is possible indeed, but not for a 100% rating.

So, can you argue why it cannot be possible at all for Sans reffering to new timelines instead of "no it's too vague", find me the contradictions or shut up.
 
StrymULTRA said:
You do realize that most of likely/possibly ratings on this wiki are based off a single line as well?

Those ratings are given if one or more lines of evidence are vague to the point that arguing a certain tier is possible indeed, but not for a 100% rating.
Click to expand...
See that doesn't work at all, because when we have only one line, that line has to be decisive or very likely to support the rating. This is not the case with the Sans' line. The statement isn't confirmed to be referring to the resets, and "starting" timelines after stopping them wouldn't necessarily be referring to the birth of a new timeline.

This is again alluded to statements like "transcending" giving Possibly 5Ds which is never a thing because the statement itself is too vague.
StrymULTRA said:
So, can you argue why it cannot be possible at all for Sans reffering to new timelines instead of "no it's too vague", find me the contradictions or shut up.
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I'm not attempting to contradict anything, I'm pointing out how the line doesn't even prove whay you say it proves in the first place, which it doesn't.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
I think that the OP makes sense, but since the potential for countless universes still exists and should be accounted for, I'd go with what some others are suggesting: "At least 2-C, possibly 2-B"
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Well, at least we have enough Staff votes to allow this to go through. Thanks Clover.
 
TioKill said:
See that doesn't work at all, because when we have only one line, that line has to be decisive or very likely to support the rating.
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No.
TioKill said:
The statement isn't confirmed to be referring to the resets, and "starting" timelines after stopping them wouldn't necessarily be referring to the birth of a new timeline.
Click to expand...
And is not confirmed to be just about going in a new timeline between 1 and 100 either.
TioKill said:
I'm not attempting to contradict anything, I'm pointing out how the line doesn't even prove whay you say it proves in the first place, which it doesn't.
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Me and others explained already how it does. Is there something contradicting this interpretation instead? No, so...
 
I agree with Clover here but can someone type out how it would be displayed on their respective profiles?
 
Recon1511 said:
I agree with Clover here but can someone type out how it would be displayed on their respective profiles?
Click to expand...
StrymULTRA said:
I think a justification should be something like this

Chara: Low Multiverse level (Destroyed the whole of the Undertale world as a game, erasing all of its reality, timelines and files, then recreated it using a True Reset, with the Undertale world containing 100 Timelines, as Sans mentions that the timelines stop and start from Frisk/Flowey's Resets, reffering to them going in a new timeline between the number 1 and 100 under the Fun Values), likely Multiverse level (As Sans implies that at every Load made from Frisk or Flowey they do not encounter the same Sans but a new one, it's likely implied that at every Load or Reset a new timeline is generated. It should be noted that there's no real limit to how many Resets can be performed, as Flowey has implied several times to be able to Reset over and over without an actual limit, as also shown from him performing Resets so many times until he saw every possibility, set of number and lines of dialogue the Underground and its inhabitants can offer or also failing in making Asgore show him the Human SOULs despite trying hundreds of ways, meaning that the game can host all the possible timelines generated from Resets, even if said Reset is repeated over and over Ad infinitum)

Asriel Dreemurr: Low Multiverse level, likely Multiverse level (Claimed to be able to destroy the Undertale world if he didn't want to just reset it with a True Reset, making him comparable to Chara, who has used the True Reset to restore the entire Undertale game after erasing it, as with Chara's adopted view of the world he has originally intended to gain the power of 7 Souls to destroy everything, and in the Genocide Route he believed to work together with Chara for this plan until Chara betrayed him. Has "infinity" as attack value, making him the strongest monster in all the game. After not messing around anymore, he made the world slowly end)

Frisk's Durability, Human SOULs and The Player's justification won't change btw, only the rating.
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Basically this.

Just replace "likely" with "possibly" even in Chara's justification.
 
StrymULTRA said:
No.
Click to expand...


Well, guess I've been debunked then
StrymULTRA said:
And is not confirmed to be just about going in a new timeline between 1 and 100 either.
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Okay? My point stands, it's not confirmed to be what you say it is, thus it shouldn't be indexed.
StrymULTRA said:
Me and others explained already how it does. Is there something contradicting this interpretation instead? No, so...
Click to expand...
The explainations provided were just re-explaining the current ratings. It doesn't prove anything because the line isn't confirmed to be referring what you wish it was referring - although who cares
 
StrymULTRA said:
Basically this.

Just replace "likely" with "possibly" even in Chara's justification.
Click to expand...
We're not really including the "LOADs possibly even create new timelines too" because it's not something either my OP, or the original thread for 2-B support, but otherwise, yes, we will use these justifications.
 
TioKill said:
We're not really including the "LOADs possibly even create new timelines too" because it's not something either my OP, or the original thread for 2-B support, but otherwise, yes, we will use these justifications.
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I mean, RESETs are only what brings the SAVE to its original point.

LOADs are what is used to go back to the last SAVE POINT.
 
By the way, this is slightly derailing the thread but in case 2-C becomes a thing, I think we need a clear stance on some things I don't think I saw mentioned on this thread or the previous upgrade.

Since the 100 timelines argument comes from fun values, we might need to also consider the probability of happening of some events since it might be an evidence for additional timelines depending on how you interpret it. For instance, when the fun value is set 65, "Sound Test Room" only has 50% chance of appearing. That would mean 101 timelines and so on for some other values.

There is also Hardmode. Depending on how we treat it, it might straight up be a 2x multiplier.
 
Tural2004 said:
Since the 100 timelines argument comes from fun values, we might need to also consider the probability of happening of some events since it might be an evidence for additional timelines depending on how you interpet it. For instance, when the fun value is set 65, "Sound Test Room" only has 50% chance of appearing. That would mean 101 timelines and so on for some other values.
Click to expand...
Tbh in many FUN Values you have only the 50% of encountering Gaster Followers. Sticking to 100 is safer.
Tural2004 said:
There is also Hardmode. Depending on how we treat it, it might straight up be a 2x multiplier.
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FUN Values do not apply to Hard Mode. So I don't think it matters much.
 
Can you tell me the source for that one? I know that Hardmode ends at Ruins but I couldn't find anything actually preventing fun values. They get randomly decided at the beginning of the game.
 
Tural2004 said:
Can you tell me the source for that one? I know that Hardmode ends at Ruins but I couldn't find anything actually preventing fun values. They get randomly decided at the beginning of the game.
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Fun Events are anywhere but the Ruins. Given that Hard Mode ends at the Ruins, it means that FUN do not apply there.
 
Tural2004 said:
I don't really think it means that they don't apply. It is more that we just don't see them.
Click to expand...
This go over some things like "how much of the meta is even canon?" and "If we don't see the FUN values programmed, they aren't intended to be applied", and we're not having that debate here.
 
Basically that. Sticking to 100 prevents useless arguments and discussion, because we're dealing with things which are a bit too meta even for Undertale.
 
Asriel, Chara and Frisk. I believe these three are the only ones affected by this other than the main page. I'll ask them to be unlocked.
 
Low Multiverse level, "possibly Multiverse level" (Destroyed the whole of the Undertale world as a game, erasing all of its timelines, reality and files, then recreated it using a True Reset, with the Undertale world containing 100 Timelines, as Sans mentions that the timelines stop and start from Frisk/Flowey's Resets, reffering to them going in a new timeline between the number 1 and 100 under the Fun Values), "possibly Multiverse level"

Who made this goof in Chara's profile? I wasn't the one who edited it.
 
TioKill said:
Low Multiverse level, "possibly Multiverse level" (Destroyed the whole of the Undertale world as a game, erasing all of its timelines, reality and files, then recreated it using a True Reset, with the Undertale world containing 100 Timelines, as Sans mentions that the timelines stop and start from Frisk/Flowey's Resets, reffering to them going in a new timeline between the number 1 and 100 under the Fun Values), "possibly Multiverse level"

Who made this goof in Chara's profile? I wasn't the one who edited it.
Click to expand...
Me. This justification was literally suggested here before.
 
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