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2-B and "countless" revision

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I feel like "countless universes" shouldn't be 2-B by default. 500 or 250 universes would also count for "countless" heck I'd argue 90 something universes could technically still be "countless". The word countless doesn't mean "at least 1001" so I think that for verses with a "countless universes" statement, it wouldn't be 2-B for that alone, but 2-C at least
 
"Countless" means "too many to count". 500 or 250 universes isn't "countless". "A couple hundred universes" isn't countless.

"At least 90 something universes" isn't countless either.

Just admit that you can't count bruh.
Why? The word countless doesn't have a minimum, neither does it have a set definition. Its too subjective. If I punch someone a countless number of times does that mean I punched them 1001 times at least?
 
Why? The word countless doesn't have a minimum, neither does it have a set definition. Its too subjective. If I punch someone a countless number of times does that mean I punched them 1001 times at least?
We already take into account the context of the verse itself. The verses that are 2-B for countless are those that show proof that said "countless" does in fact refer to an amount so high, one cannot count it nor assign it a set value. So by definition, they would be above a set number like 1001.

If a verse said "countless", yet have showing of it being hyperbole, then we wouldn't take it to the highest interpretation, as there's no reason for it.

If you want a specific verse with said justification downgraded, tackle the verse itself and prove the base definition of countless should not be used.
 
We already take into account the context of the verse itself. The verses that are 2-B for countless are those that show proof that said "countless" does in fact refer to an amount so high, one cannot count it nor assign it a set value. So by definition, they would be above a set number like 1001.

If a verse said "countless", yet have showing of it being hyperbole, then we wouldn't take it to the highest interpretation, as there's no reason for it.

If you want a specific verse with said justification downgraded, tackle the verse itself and prove the base definition of countless should not be used.
my-man-my-man-denzel.gif
 
I agree actually. The use of "countless" depends on context. For example if you walk into an imaginary city and see 500 skyscrapers closely packed together immediately calling them countless wouldn't be a weird reaction. It depends on subjective perspective and circumstances. There are always situations where counting something is impractical.
 
I dunno about king wanting it to equal 90, but I would agree on not defaulting it to the math definition without further context for the reason that the word just isn't really used that way most of the time. If you really want I could go spam out articles with the word countless in them or whatever, but I don't really think many people can contest the idea that the word countless in common usage is not being used in the literal sense of "cannot be counted." Further context can be provided to argue the literal definition, but I don't think it would really make sense to assume that the word does not default to the meaning it ends up defaulting to in the real world.

If you do feel like doing that there's also a lot of factors that can make something not able to be counted besides having a value that's just incompatible with being counted intrinsically. It's overall not really the strongest of keywords and I don't think things should really be using countless statements as more than just support when they can't be proven to be literal.

Edit: I went and checked and even the stock google "use this word in a sentence" thing doesn't give a literal usage, returning the example sentence of "she'd apologized countless times before" which can't really be referring to a quantity impossible to count. Merriam-Webster lists Myriad and Many as synonymous, and then lists Myriad as 10,000 or "a great number," so even dictionaries are accepting that the literal usage isn't quite how it panned out with that one.
 
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It's when Sagan standard apply, countless simply stands for something that cannot be counted or too many to count and even "very much", "plenty" all stands just to describe the former relation, the burden of proof will be on one that making a claim of it being limited to under 1000 rather than one who is simply standing over what has been stated.
 
I don't think the burden of proof would really be on you to prove that the more common usage is the one being used with no further context, no. Generally you don't really default to edge cases.
 
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I don't think the burden of proof would really be on you to prove that the more common usage is the one being used with no further context, no. Generally you don't really default to edge cases.
The same argument that can be used for infinite.

Statements that are pertaining to astronomical and cosmological stuff are taken as it is or any logical nearing to it as long as not contradicted.
 
And in doing so proving that you're missing the contention as it's over whether the word is actually really used to mean that consistently enough to set that as the default. I disagree with that notion.

If you want to appeal to a dictionary for your definition of countless as a quantity that's impossible to count to, then as I've posted above you'd have to also accept that those same dictionaries also define countless as a synonym of words that very much do not mean that like many and myriad. On a technical level, the literal meaning of countless is just as much "a lot" as it is "this quantitty can't be counted to" if you use dictionaries as your standard.

If you really hate prescriptivism and abhor the conception of the dictionary and go off a vaguer notion of general use, then you don't even really have countless being used to be mean uncountable really at all. That's just not something going on outside of dedicated math circles, and dedicated math circles definitely aren't speaking the way on the job as you'd assume a random person to speak in their day to day life. If you want super-countless, then tossing the dictionaries out isn't really helpful to you.
 
“If you want to appeal to the dictionary” are you ******* joking? If you can’t use the dictionary to define words, then we may as well just not have language.
 
I've posted above you'd have to also accept that those same dictionaries also define countless as a synonym of words that very much do not mean that like many and myriad. On a technical level, the literal meaning of countless is just as much "a lot" as it is "this quantitty can't be counted to" if you use dictionaries as your standard

countless simply stands for something that cannot be counted or too many to count and even "very much", "plenty" all stands just to describe the former relation,
 
The same argument that can be used for infinite.

Statements that are pertaining to astronomical and cosmological stuff are taken as it is or any logical nearing to it as long as not contradicted.
Not really. There's tons of quibbling over whether something's a sufficiently supported infinity standard or not, you can't just throw the word around regardless of context and get jumped up to there.

If that was the standard, that can still change. That's kinda the point of this entire board, really. To make threads advocating for changes you think are better. Saying that something is a certain way isn't necessarily useful in a thread that's saying that it shouldn't be that way, as opposed to a thread saying it's not.
 
“If you want to appeal to the dictionary” are you ******* joking? If you can’t use the dictionary to define words, then we may as well just not have language.
So you'd concede that the word Countless means ten thousand just as much as it means impossible to count? I've certainly demonstrated that the dictionary says this, after all.
 
So you'd concede that the word Countless means ten thousand just as much as it means impossible to count? I've certainly demonstrated that the dictionary says this, after all.
No, it means:

very many, or too many to be counted.

and it’s very easy to count to 1001.
 
This reliability is something you have to prove. That's the whole point. The OP isn't written the way I'd write it for sure, but it's not saying that countless can never mean what the Tiers fans want it to mean. It's saying that it would not default to that devoid of context.
I can when comes to number of universes coming from reliable sources?
There is no reason why shouldn't.
 
From my experience most uses of the word countless when referenced to cosmology is in relation to MWI, which should be plenty of context to prove its above 1001.
 
No, it means:

very many, or too many to be counted.

and it’s very easy to count to 1001.


countless​

adjective

count·less ˈkau̇nt-ləs

: too numerous to be counted : MYRIAD, MANY


myriad​

1 of 2

noun

myr·i·ad ˈmir-ē-əd

1
: ten thousand
2
: a greatnumber
a myriad of ideas

I dunno man, looks like the dictionary says it also means 10,000.

Before anyone complains about me dictionary definition-ing people, note that Hasty12345 was the one who said "
“If you want to appeal to the dictionary” are you ******* joking? If you can’t use the dictionary to define words, then we may as well just not have language." I'm merely conforming to the standards he wants to use.
 
From my experience most uses of the word countless when referenced to cosmology is in relation to MWI, which should be plenty of context to prove its above 1001.
If it's supposedly so commonly used to mean this, then why would changing a default away from that be so bad? Surely all the verses you'd advocate for using that meaning of countless would have ample support to be able to be argued to use that on their own?
 
So you'd concede that the word Countless means ten thousand just as much as it means impossible to count? I've certainly demonstrated that the dictionary says this, after all.

the subject for what these statements has been put matters, you're not counting bunch of boxes here in front of you. You are literally discribing a multiverse, despite fiction, there aren't so many proposed ideas over the multiverse there is and what so exist are all countless in minimum, so when used in fiction I don't see the reason of limit it to something it's entirely unrelated to.
 
Why would describing a multiverse mean it would be less reasonable for a contextless person to use the word in the way it is almost always used outside of academia?
 
Make 2-C the new Universe level+

Make 2-B the 2-to-any-higher-finite-number-of-universes

Leave 2-A as is.

PROBLEM SOLVED.
I'd agree that 2-C and 2-B being cut off at 1001 is pretty weird, but that's the kind of change that would take ages to do rip
 
This reliability is something you have to prove. That's the whole point. The OP isn't written the way I'd write it for sure, but it's not saying that countless can never mean what the Tiers fans want it to mean. It's saying that it would not default to that devoid of context.
That's not needed then, no one cares if a character who cannot perceive infinite or has no knowledge over the cosmology or the thing he is talking. Either infinite or countless.
 
I'd agree that 2-C and 2-B being cut off at 1001 is pretty weird, but that's the kind of change that would take ages to do rip
I know a staff member or two planning a CRT to merge 2-C and 2-B into one single being. Not sure when it'll arrive but it is in the works.

But yeah, it's weird as **** now.
 
I know a staff member or two planning a CRT to merge 2-C and 2-B into one single being. Not sure when it'll arrive but it is in the works.

But yeah, it's weird as **** now.
Huh? And what is the reason for that?
 


countless​

adjective

count·less ˈkau̇nt-ləs

: too numerous to be counted : MYRIAD, MANY


myriad​

1 of 2

noun

myr·i·ad ˈmir-ē-əd

1
: ten thousand
2
: a greatnumber
a myriad of ideas

I dunno man, looks like the dictionary says it also means 10,000.
You’re cherry picking the definition of myriad. The second defitnion is “a great number”, which is actually more synonymous with countless’ definition than 10,000.
 
That's not needed then, no one cares if a character who cannot perceive infinite or has no knowledge over the cosmology or the thing he is talking. Either infinite or countless.
The difference here is that I can absolutely prove that countless is not usually used to mean what you use it to mean here. It would be quite bizarre if we just assumed the esoteric academia definitions of words in every case by the default as opposed to how the word is actually used by people, and there's also plenty of characters who don't really have any way to be sure about the academia meaning anyways. It makes more sense to just default to how real people use the word, and then leave the academic option open if it can be sufficiently supported.
 
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