1-A Godsphere

[Xearsay]

The Lords of Order and Chaos birthed duality(Dr Fate 1988 issues #6).

Their system is described as an endless, looping remix containing and upholding the entirety of space and time (Eternity girl #4).

Space and time has been shown to include innumerable higher dimensions (DC Universe presents issue #2).

Author clarification that these were in fact higher dimensions.

Allen Adam going over how higher dimensional perspectives perceive the universe as flat and how it appears being analogous to reading a story in a comic book (Multiversity Pax Americana).

The Godsphere is consistently stated to be outside of and transcendent to space and time.

Example 1(DC One million 1988 #1)

Example 2(Justice league America Vol 1 #183)

Example 3(Genesis Vol 1 #1)

Example 4(Action comics #586)

Example 5(Sandman Overture #2)

Example 6(Jack Kirbys Fourth World #2)

Example 7(Jack Kirbys Fourth World #18)

There are more of these btw...

Since the Godsphere is a higher archetypal(Final Crisis) plane of existence that is outside of and transcendent to the space and time dual system created by the Lords of Order and Chaos, making it beyond the concepts of space and time. Therefore the Godsphere can be considered 1-A.

Response to some counterarguments:

1. “How can the Godsphere exist beyond space and time when the Monitor Sphere has time?”

The Monitor Sphere has one statement of time existing in their world but their time exists as a literal clockwork pattern in the sky in a fundamental archetypal world of primal forms. Making it some abstract form of time that exists on a higher level, completely different from how we would perceive and understand it.

1. “The Source Wall was called 6th dimensional.”

The Source Wall exists at every level in DC, spanning all dimensions. So the Source Wall having statements referencing it being sixth dimensional doesn’t actually mean anything.

1. “What about the one time where a realm was described or compared to something physical?”

Paradoxical language games. DC has a whole scan going over it.

1. “Metrons chair was said to ride the winds of time and space but can reach Apokolips and New Genesis.”

While Metrons chair is said to ride the winds of time and space, this does not mean that it also doesn’t have the ability to reach the metaphysical planes. As shown Metrons chair has reached places beyond time and space. To conclude that Apokolips and New Genesis must be a part of time and space because Metron can reach it, is implying that Metrons chair can only ride the winds of time and space. Which is not what's stated.

And just to further prove my point, Metron has reached places beyond time and space before, with his mobius chair.

1. “Darkseids omega beams teleport people through time and space. With this in mind Darkseids omega beams have sent people to Apokolips.”

This is the same type of argument as the one involving Metrons chair. While it does state Darkseids omega beams teleport people through time and space, that doesn’t mean Darkseids omega beams also don’t have the ability to reach places beyond time and space. To conclude that Apokolips is a part of time and space because Darkseids omega beams can teleport someone there, is implying that Darkseids omega beams can only teleport people through time and space. Which is not what's stated.

1. “What about that one time Supergirl reached the Godsphere without a boomtube?”

She did that via magic and her angel powers to teleport herself into the Godsphere.

1. “Boomtubes were called extra dimensional once.”

Extra-dimensional simply means originating from outside of the physical universe. Something can originate from outside of the physical universe and still exist outside of space and time.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/extradimensional

I’m pretty sure there are some arguments that I might have missed that some people will scavenge for, however these are the most common counter arguments I see.

Edit: Fixed a couple scans that weren’t working.

 

[Teezar]

Example 5(Action comics #586)

This isn't working tho.

Example 6(Sandman Overture #2

This scan is particularly interesting.

There are more of these btw...

I thought you would post the one where it's stated to be beyond any measures of space and time.

Since the Godsphere is a higher archetypal(Final Crisis) plane of existence that is outside of and transcendent to the space and time dual system created by the Lords of Order and Chaos, it must be beyond the concepts of space and time, with space and time encompassing innumerable higher dimensions. Therefore it can be considered 1-A.

The way you worded this, this isn't 1A.

And just to further prove my point, Metron has reached places beyond time and space before, with his mobius chair.

Oh, this is the scan talking about the source wall.

“What about that one time Powergirl reached the Godsphere without a boomtube?”

Aren't boomtubes the only way to enter the Sphere of gods? And from the mother box.

 

[Teezar]

Me waiting to see a deagonx vs xearsay again.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Me waiting to see a deagonx vs xearsay again.

Same

 

[Bernkastelll]

The arguments are convincing, I will stay neutral, likely agreeing, I will wait further input

 

[Xearsay]

Aren't boomtubes the only way to enter the Sphere of gods? And from the mother box.

There’s some other ways that were expressed in Justice League Dark like temples and places of worship which function as gateways into the Godsphere.

 

[Teezar]

Tho the Sphere of gods in this forum is low-1C.
I believe the realms in it some would qualify higher.

 

[Teezar]

There’s some other ways that were expressed in Justice League Dark like temples and places of worship which function as gateways into the Godsphere.

I think in the sense of prayers reaching their not they themselves who worship the gods go there physically.

 

[Bernkastelll]

It would make Mister Myxzptlk Outerversal right? Due this stuff that he explains

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

This is legit so I agree

 

[Teezar]

It would make Mister Myxzptlk Outerversal right? Due this stuff that he explains

How?

 

[Bernkastelll]

How?

Because the fifth dimension is outside of the godsphere

 

[Naito-desu]

Tfw 5th dimension is actually not 5-D

 

[Teezar]

Because the fifth dimension is outside of the godsphere

I thought the 5D is stated to be everywere in the multiverse since its imagination.

Tfw 5th dimension is actually not 5-D

We know.

 

[Westcoast5005]

I agree

 

[Antvasima]

We will hopefully revise the DC cosmology relatively soon, so much of this seems redundant, and also like exaggerations that are not at all consistent with how the DC gods are generally portrayed. However, I will ask for further input.

@Zensum @C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Newendigo @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer @The_Impress @Planck69 @Confluctor @MarvelFanatic119

 

[Darksmash]

Neutral right now

 

[Sus]

doesn't seem 1A to me, though i will wait for people's opinion.

 

[Confluctor]

Don't see anything 1-A tbh. Low 1-C at max from what I am looking at.

Also can someone explain the relevance of higher dimensional scan here?

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the evaluation.

 

[Xearsay]

Don't see anything 1-A tbh. Low 1-C at max from what I am looking at.

Also can someone explain the relevance of higher dimensional scan here?

It was to showcase that the space and time being encompassed and upheld by the dual system made by the Lords of Order and Chaos is at least 1-B. With the Godsphere completely transcending said dual system.

 

[Confluctor]

Hmm. I see. Still unsure about it tbh. Will think about it more after work

 

[Sus]

Hmm. I see. Still unsure about it tbh. Will think about it more after work

good luck in work

 

[Xearsay]

Hmm. I see. Still unsure about it tbh. Will think about it more after work

Ok. I also have college so I won’t be able to respond to any new messages until the afternoon.

 

[Confluctor]

good luck in work

Thanks man

Ok. I also have college so I won’t be able to respond to any new messages until the afternoon

Neat. Will catch up on it later then

 

[Tarang123]

I’m genuinely against using transduality to get characters to 1A, but the reasoning seems Alr, so I’ll stay neutral

 

[Teezar]

I’m genuinely against using transduality to get characters to 1A, but the reasoning seems Alr, so I’ll stay neutral

Same tho I don't think creating the concept of duality is 1A but would like to see further input.

 

[TypeOU]

should definitively qualify for the 1-A tier, not sure where tho
also weren't comic characters supposed to be nerfed?

 

[TypeOU]

does anyone scale to this anyway? aside from already outer characters

 

[Teezar]

He said sphere of gods so basically the gods in it.

 

[TypeOU]

you don't automatically scale to the place you exist in tho

 

[Confluctor]

you don't automatically scale to the place you exist in tho

Under the current cosmology structure, yes, you would.


I don't personally like it myself, but it's what it is

 

[Tarang123]

should definitively qualify for the 1-A tier, not sure where tho
also weren't comic characters supposed to be nerfed?

I mean…if we’re being serious then type 3 transduality itself shouldn’t be a thing or at least shouldn’t be 1A, but for now this logic should somewhat hold.

 

[TypeOU]

I mean…if we’re being serious then type 3 transduality itself shouldn’t be a thing or at least shouldn’t be 1A, but for now this logic should somewhat hold.

they also have >infinite D tho

 

[Tarang123]

they also have >infinite D tho

Pretty sure that hasn’t been accepted on the wiki for a while, but the 1B hierarchy might be good enough.

 

[Sus]

I'm neutral on this but just making it clear, being above high 1B is still high 1B

transduality will get nuked soon so i don't recommend basing any argument on it

 

[Tarang123]

I'm neutral on this but just making it clear, being above high 1B is still high 1B

transduality will get nuked soon so i don't recommend basing any argument on it

Well, transcending High 1B is Low 1A, but if the dualism argument extends even to High 1B constructs then 1A might work.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Well transduality is the only thing for 1-A here, the rest claps at low 1-C

 

[Sus]

Well, transcending High 1B is Low 1A, but if the dualism argument extends even to High 1B constructs then 1A might work.

transcending high 1B is high 1B unless there's more context

by your definition digimon would cap at low 1A

 

[Tarang123]

transcending high 1B is high 1B unless there's more context

by your definition digimon would cap at low 1A

Not how that works. The tiering system literally states that’s Low 1A