1-A Godsphere

[Thelastmlg]

Tbf you could interpret it as him saying everything around him is different than spacetime and scale, being more profound and meaningful

also please don't remind me of CAS, his artstyle was one of the greatest and he was only there for half a issue, even mandrakk and SP1M appeared again, but this sexy beast hasn't

 

[Tarang123]

Tbf you could interpret it as him saying everything around him is different than spacetime and scale, being more profound and meaningful

also please don't remind me of CAS, his artstyle was one of the greatest and he was only there for half a issue, even mandrakk and SP1M appeared again, but this sexy beast hasn't

I mean...they even say that it becomes more profound, which doesn't sound like something separate/above space and time.

Agreed, we need CAS again. Then again, Snyder will probably ruin this sexy ************ if he brings him back.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Like i said, you could interpret that the "everything" is actually different than spacetime, like, he was saying that the reality aroind him is more profound than spacetime and scale, but honestly that's a little stretch

 

[Tarang123]

Like i said, you could interpret that the "everything" is actually different than spacetime, like, he was saying that the reality aroind him is more profound than spacetime and scale, but honestly that's a little stretch

I mean...you probably could, but yeah it's a bit of a stretch

 

[Xearsay]

In principle, I'd be fine with the Godsphere being Low 1-A or 1-A if it was defined as something fundamentally superior to a hierarchy of higher-dimensional spaces, instead of just something that could be construed as another layer added ontop of it, which you can certainly argue if you want to say the higher dimensions described by Rama Kushna are all contained inside the Bleed. I don't think I agree, though, considering we have instances like the Nil being described as a higher dimension and Darkseid shooting Orion using a higher-dimensional gun, or Hypertime, which is supposed to be a 3-dimensional analogue of time, being stated to extend beyond realms of the Sphere of the Gods like New Genesis and Apocolyps

Well yeah I do think the higher dimensions exist within bleed. I never mentioned it but it is implied that higher dimensions do reside beneath the bleed as to reach/tack into bleed space requires for one to traverse through higher dimensions. Also just to be clear, doesn’t something or someone being called higher dimensional not actually mean anything without additional context? Because in DC stuff like the Godsphere, Comic book limbo, and the Monitor Sphere don’t function like actual higher dimensions.

Also I don’t understand exactly how you drew that conclusion from the Hypertime scan as it merely mentions the Gods of the Thirteen Heavens being these godlike type of beings within Hypertime. No where does it actually mention Hypertime extending beyond the Godsphere.

Of course, you have things like the Monitor Sphere existing as an archetypal world of the unmanifest, Nil being the "nowhere" that is left after people "run out of multiverse," and so on, but, given the above, we can probably chalk that up to the writers meshing higher dimensions with more esoteric concepts that, logically speaking, would have to be beyond them anyway. Not much to do here, in this case.

I see it as more of a case of writers just using terminology loosely as most of these planes of existences don’t function like actual higher dimensions. Nil for example having time being a clockwork pattern on the sky rather some kind of temporal dimension.

The first scan you used also mentions duality being birthed out of "oneness," which would just be the Overvoid, if we are to try and fit this into the current cosmology, given how Morrison often describes it as the non-dual expanse where all concepts break down and whatnot, and as something more or less equal to the concept of an all-encompassing, panentheistic "God."

You are correct that oneness did birth duality. That is a mistake on my part. I apologize. However in my second scan it is still expressed that the dual system between Order and Chaos upholds and encompasses time and space. Which is what the Godsphere has consistently been stated in almost every realm to transcend.

 

[Teezar]

In principle, I'd be fine with the Godsphere being Low 1-A or 1-A if it was defined as something fundamentally superior to a hierarchy of higher-dimensional spaces, instead of just something that could be construed as another layer added ontop of it

Please do you still remember the name of the book?

Tbf you could interpret it as him saying everything around him is different than spacetime and scale, being more profound and meaningful

also please don't remind me of CAS, his artstyle was one of the greatest and he was only there for half a issue, even mandrakk and SP1M appeared again, but this sexy beast hasn't

I don't think CAS will ever return.

I mean...they even say that it becomes more profound, which doesn't sound like something separate/above space and time.

Agreed, we need CAS again. Then again, Snyder will probably ruin this sexy ************ if he brings him back.

It's Williamson who does the main shit now on dc comics. Snyder on the other hand is working on nectorra.

Agreed, but there's also a scan where CAS states that time and space increases or something like that, I'll pull it up.



Here, it says that time, space, and even scale itself were different and more profound. Wouldn't make much sense for a character to be at a more "profound" level of time and space and beyond all extentions of it as well.

This is NIL and I remember it stated a battle or something made time be a clockwork in the sky.

 

[Teezar]

requires for one to traverse through higher dimensions.

Book issue please.

Also I don’t understand exactly how you drew that conclusion from the Hypertime scan as it merely mentions the Gods of the Thirteen Heavens being these absolute type of powers within Hypertime. No where does it actually mention Hypertime extending beyond the Godsphere.

I do know hypertime contains even the Sphere of gods.

 

[Xearsay]

Book issue please.

The authority #1.

 

[Antvasima]

The Authority was written while Wildstorm was still a separate entity from DC Comics. Unless a concept has been officially endorsed afterwards, we cannot use it.

 

[Westcoast5005]

The hyper time is portrayed as being meta fictional representing DC continuity. Its use to cover the comic book publishing history.

 

[Antvasima]

That does not matter for entirely separate fictional settings.

 

[Teezar]

Tho, both of you are correct wildstorm joined DC during the flashpoint when Barry allen merged all timelines together.

 

[Saiyan40009]

Ultima_Reality said:
In principle, I'd be fine with the Godsphere being Low 1-A or 1-A if it was defined as something fundamentally superior to a hierarchy of higher-dimensional spaces, instead of just something that could be construed as another layer added ontop of it, which you can certainly argue if you want to say the higher dimensions described by Rama Kushna are all contained inside the Bleed. I don't think I agree, though, considering we have instances like the Nil being described as a higher dimension and Darkseid shooting Orion using a higher-dimensional gun, or Hypertime, which is supposed to be a 3-dimensional analogue of time, being stated to extend beyond realms of the Sphere of the Gods like New Genesis and Apocolyps
Click to expand...

Well yeah I do think the higher dimensions exist within bleed. I never mentioned it but it is implied that higher dimensions do reside beneath the bleed as to reach/tack into bleed space requires for one to traverse through higher dimensions. Also just to be clear, doesn’t something or someone being called higher dimensional not actually mean anything without additional context? Because in DC stuff like the Godsphere, Comic book limbo, and the Monitor Sphere don’t function like actual higher dimensions.

Also I don’t understand exactly how you drew that conclusion from the Hypertime scan as it merely mentions the Gods of the Thirteen Heavens being these godlike type of beings within Hypertime. No where does it actually mention Hypertime extending beyond the Godsphere.
traversing higher dimensions is pretty cheap if there is no context of infinite tracendence. We are sure even that the higher dimensions branch has a difference reality fiction even taking the statement that they are higher apart from the sphere Gods never shows infinitely tracendent or should I remember that he is combining the different cosmologies and writings

 

[Teezar]

The forum just instantly looks weird now on my phone.

 

[Antvasima]

The forum just instantly looks weird now on my phone.

What do you mean? Our system manager seems to be experiment with trying to apply a new advertisement system to this forum, so that may have something to do with it.

 

[Kyozen]

Tbf you could interpret it as him saying everything around him is different than spacetime and scale, being more profound and meaningful

Time and Space are different now because they're on a higher scale

 

[Kyozen]

In principle, I'd be fine with the Godsphere being Low 1-A or 1-A if it was defined as something fundamentally superior to a hierarchy of higher-dimensional spaces, instead of just something that could be construed as another layer added ontop of it.

So if the godsphere is proven to he seperate from the a higher-dimensional hierarchy then it would be 1-A?
Just making sure I understand

 

[Teezar]

Well yeah I do think the higher dimensions exist within bleed. I never mentioned it but it is implied that higher dimensions do reside beneath the bleed as to reach/tack into bleed space requires for one to traverse through higher dimensions. Also just to be clear, doesn’t something or someone being called higher dimensional not actually mean anything without additional context? Because in DC stuff like the Godsphere, Comic book limbo, and the Monitor Sphere don’t function like actual higher dimensions.

Also I don’t understand exactly how you drew that conclusion from the Hypertime scan as it merely mentions the Gods of the Thirteen Heavens being these godlike type of beings within Hypertime. No where does it actually mention Hypertime extending beyond the Godsphere.
traversing higher dimensions is pretty cheap if there is no context of infinite tracendence. We are sure even that the higher dimensions branch has a difference reality fiction even taking the statement that they are higher apart from the sphere Gods shows infinitely tracendent or should I remember that he is combining the different cosmologies and writings

The bleed is constantly known to be higher Dimensional space But has different scaling based off writers, it's stated to be 5D in grant Morrison final crisis and multiversity and stated to be hyperdimentional in recent books but no talk about its dimensionality.

 

[Deagonx]

The Lords of Order and Chaos birthed duality(Dr Fate 1988 issues #6).

Where are you getting the idea that the Lords birthed it? It says that "we are witnessing the act of creation" and says "oneness births duality." There's nothing in the scan that indicates who is responsible for that.

Their system is described as an endless, looping remix containing and upholding the entirety of space and time (Eternity girl #4).

Okay, but the idea that the Lords of Order and Chaos contain all of space and time is incompatible with the rest of the cosmology, and this is an obscure author writing in an obscure comic line.

Space and time has been shown to include innumerable higher dimensions (DC Universe presents issue #2).

This scan has been dismissed for the purposes of scaling because it has never been determined what manner "dimensions" she's talking about. Likewise, the scan does not say "higher" dimensions, just dimensions

Author clarification that these were in fact higher dimensions.

See above.

The Godsphere is consistently stated to be outside of and transcendent to space and time.

The Godsphere has never been stated to be "transcendent" to space and time. The phrasing used is almost exclusively "beyond space and time" or something to that effect. Beyond does not indicate some kind of transcendence, it is a word that literally means "outside of."

Likewise, outside of space and time could simply mean they are outside of the universe, which is "spacetime." There is ample counter-evidence to the idea that the God Sphere is incorporeal, and the idea that time does not pass in the God Sphere is utterly incompatible with many storylines in which people go to the God Sphere and time passes on earth regularly, parallel to the duration they spend in the Sphere.

For example, in this comic Libra literally says that he regains his corporeal form on Apokolips

Corporeal - : having, consisting of, or relating to a physical material body: such as

It's my opinion that the idea of the God Sphere being non-physical creates far too many problems and contradictions to be taken seriously, since 99% of authors ignore it, and the idea that it doesn't have time is completely wrong. However, while that specific topic doesn't need to be wrung out in this thread, the fact of the matter is portraying the non-physicality of the God Sphere as a closed case is just dishonest, there's tons of contradicting evidence.

Since the Godsphere is a higher archetypal(Final Crisis) plane of existence that is outside of and transcendent to the space and time dual system created by the Lords of Order and Chaos, making it beyond the concepts of space and time. Therefore the Godsphere can be considered 1-A.

Batman is specifically using the word in reference to the Platonic idea of an archetype. However, the Godsphere is fundamentally incompatible with Platonism, so Batman is clearly mistaken.

1. “How can the Godsphere exist beyond space and time when the Monitor Sphere has time?”

The Monitor Sphere has one statement of time existing in their world but their time exists as a literal clockwork pattern in the sky in a fundamental archetypal world of primal forms. Making it some abstract form of time that exists on a higher level, completely different from how we would perceive and understand it.

The fact that time is different does not change the fact that the Monitor Sphere has time.

1. “What about the one time where a realm was described or compared to something physical?”

Paradoxical language games. DC has a whole scan going over it.

1. This scan was not used in reference to the Sphere of the Gods, and the scholar's explanation of cosmology is incompatible with the rest of DC

2. The comic is ancient and wasn't written by a main DC authors

3. One throw-away line in an obscure comic from the 80s cannot be used to handwave the never-ending list of contradictions that your interpretation produces

4. He said this in response to the question of where the realm is, it wasn't used in the manner that you are attempting to use it in.

1. “What about that one time Supergirl reached the Godsphere without a boomtube?”

She did that via magic and her angel powers to teleport herself into the Godsphere.

The method of transportation isn't relevant to the argument. It is the fact that she maintained her original size relative to Apokoliptians, and Granny Goodness literally used the word "size." Let us remind ourselves what size means

: physical magnitude, extent, or bulk : relative or proportionate dimensions

Universe in this context literally means “a particular sphere of activity, interest, or experience.”

What on earth? This is an utterly nonsensical attempt to dismiss a clear contradiction in your evidence. That notion of the word "universe" does not refer to a place, and could not be used in the context of someone travelling.

However in my second scan it is still expressed that the dual system between Order and Chaos upholds and encompasses time and space.

That is not what the scan says, it says that the collaboration of Order and Chaos does that. Order and Chaos might be opposites, and an example of duality, but any two opposite things working in tandem cannot be equated to "duality" in the context that is relevant to 1-A.

This whole thread has strong WebCamParrot energy. That is, stitching together unrelated scans across decades of continuity, often relying on statements from comic book storylines and authors that no one has heard of in one-off comic runs, in an attempt to make a battleboarding point, rather than engaging with the source material in good faith. What we know about how DC cosmology works in current canon is incompatible with most of the notions provided here, and it isn't even clear how most of what you're saying -- even if it were true -- would qualify it was 1-A.

 

[Teezar]

And his here

 

[Kyozen]

Based Deagonx

 

[Lormac_CC]

He is back

 

[Teezar]

He is back

Looking for how to create a deagonx vs xearsay meme.

 

[Antvasima]

Deagonx makes perfect sense as usual. Thank you for helping out.

Should I close this thread then?

 

[Kyozen]

Deagonx makes perfect sense as usual. Thank you for helping out.

Should I close this thread then?

Sure

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so then.