Servant Gilgamesh (Fate) vs Ichibē Hyōsube (Bleach)

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Both are in their Tier 6 keys, base profile and stats, normal personality and equipment and they start 500 metres from each other.
Reaction and movement speeds are equalised.

Ichibē's profile.

Gilgamesh's profile.

Since it seems we won't be getting more major content revisions for Bleach for a while, it seems like the perfect time for some bleach battles, and these two might just have enough haxx to be a somewhat fair fight.

 

[KazuiK]

which Hax of Gilgamesh?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Since they are 500 apart and Gil know the massive difference in strength with the effects of the restricted Sha Naqba Imuru, wouldn't he use instantly Enuma Elish?

 

[Loyd]

In character, Is gil starting off with his golden armor?

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

In character, Is gil starting off with his golden armor?

Yes.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Since they are 500 apart and Gil know the massive difference in strength with the effects of the restricted Sha Naqba Imuru, wouldn't he use instantly Enuma Elish?

Has Servant Gil ever used Enuma Elish instantly? Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that SNI was more of a future sight and selecting optimal moves rather than knowing what abilities the opponent has. If anything Ichibē should also know what Enuma Elish, and other visible noble phantasms do, because he can see their true names.

 

[Loyd]

Ichibei starts with the spiritual palm slap which should splatter gil, but his A rank armor basically negs everything ichibe can do, is he really pulling ea before danmku? Anyways ichibe shunpo into cqc range and outskills before ea is fired its his only wincon.

Has Servant Gil ever used Enuma Elish instantly? Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that SNI was more of a future sight and selecting optimal moves rather than knowing what abilities the opponent has. If anything Ichibē should also know what Enuma Elish, and other visible noble phantasms do, because he can see their true names.

With restricted sni he knows the opponents stronger moves, he won't understand Ea name cause its like a tier 1 weapon emiya can't analyse it.

 

[Rez]

Has Servant Gil ever used Enuma Elish instantly? Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that SNI was more of a future sight and selecting optimal moves rather than knowing what abilities the opponent has. If anything Ichibē should also know what Enuma Elish, and other visible noble phantasms do, because he can see their true names.

SNI is pretty much pseudo omniscience(kind of). It's both info analysis and future sight in it's sealed state it tells of how strong an enemy is, their name and some more info about them. In it's unsealed state it shows Gil all possible futures and the optimal path to take towards victory.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Ichibei starts with the spiritual palm slap which should splatter gil, but his A rank armor basically negs everything ichibe can do

does Gil armor grant him Causality Manipulation (type 2) resistance too?

Is he really pulling ea before danmku?

If we're talking about danmaku i.e. projectile spam, then of course not.

Anyways ichibe shunpo into cqc range and outskills before ea is fired its his only wincon.

But in character there's no instance of Gil firing Ea instantly, SNI or not.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

SNI is pretty much pseudo omniscience(kind of). It's both info analysis and future sight in it's sealed state it tells of how strong an enemy is, their name and some more info about them. In it's unsealed state it shows Gil all possible futures and the optimal path to take towards victory.

Wouldn't knowing Ichibē's name be detrimental to Gil, considering just saying it crushes your throat?

Still waiting to see if Golden Armor has Causality Resistance.

 

[Loyd]

does Gil armor grant him Causality Manipulation (type 2) resistance too?

its A rank magic resistance which negs everything paranormal, being rank A its layered asf

But in character there's no instance of Gil firing Ea instantly, SNI or not.

hes honestly saved from PIS and knowing ichibe capability probably.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

its A rank magic resistance which negs everything paranormal, being rank A its layered asf

magic resistance =/= conceptual manipulation resistance unless there's a direct feat of it resisting haxx of that level.
AFAIK stuff like Excalibur works (Saber Route) so I don't see why Causality Manipulation (name manipulation and (the concept of) darkness manipulation) won't work. Is there an actual feat of him resisting it?

He only resists conceptual manipulation when he gets Root of the Beginning, and BB was confident it would work otherwise.

hes honestly saved from PIS and knowing ichibe capability probably.

It's less PIS and more arrogance. Also, can someone who's an expert tell me the difference between Ea and complete Ea?

 

[Loyd]

magic resistance =/= conceptual manipulation resistance unless there's a direct feat of it resisting haxx of that level.

im pretty sure ive seen it somewhere i think it was a conceptual manip np that magic resist negs? but someone more knowledgable can answer it,

between Ea and complete Ea?

did you mean sni?
ichibe can't see Ea name its a tier 1 weapon, emiya couldnt analyse it.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Servant Physiology

Servants are spirits summoned by the Holy Grail to compete under Masters in the Holy Grail War. Typically, they are Heroic Spirits, beings of a higher existence given to them by the people's ideals of them, but can also be Divine Spirits, Phantoms, Wraiths, and even normal humans, in extreme...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Look up concept resistance in resistance section.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

did you mean sni?
ichibe can't see Ea name its a tier 1 weapon, emiya couldnt analyse it.

I'm not saying he can name Ea. I went back to see when Ea's used and apparently Gil can use Ea to fight normally (i.e. no complex multiversal stuff) against Saber's Excalibur. Since Saber is not accepted as having anything tier 1, I want to know if Ea always goes 1-C because it doesn't seem so.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Servant Physiology

Servants are spirits summoned by the Holy Grail to compete under Masters in the Holy Grail War. Typically, they are Heroic Spirits, beings of a higher existence given to them by the people's ideals of them, but can also be Divine Spirits, Phantoms, Wraiths, and even normal humans, in extreme...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Look up concept resistance in resistance section.

Isn't that his 1-C key? Are there feats for servant Gilgamesh is what I'm asking.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Isn't that his 1-C key? Are there feats for servant Gilgamesh is what I'm asking.

Servent physiology applies to every servant...tier is irrelevant.
And Rank A is considered best Magic Resistance with includes concept stuff.
Also look up the profile yourself. Its in 6C key.

 

[Loyd]

Servant Physiology

Servants are spirits summoned by the Holy Grail to compete under Masters in the Holy Grail War. Typically, they are Heroic Spirits, beings of a higher existence given to them by the people's ideals of them, but can also be Divine Spirits, Phantoms, Wraiths, and even normal humans, in extreme...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Look up concept resistance in resistance section.

Isn't that his 1-C key? Are there feats for servant Gilgamesh is what I'm asking.

its servant physiology.
B+ what concept type did it neg?

I'm not saying he can name Ea. I went back to see when Ea's used and apparently Gil can use Ea to fight normally (i.e. no complex multiversal stuff) against Saber's Excalibur. Since Saber is not accepted as having anything tier 1, I want to know if Ea always goes 1-C because it doesn't seem so.

its a divine construct weapon made by the gods, i honestly don't know what tier but emiya can't analyze or process it

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I don't know so don't quote me...but I think all conceptual and name stuff in Fate is Type 1 CM.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Yeah, they resisted the CM type 1

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Which type of CM does servant physiology (B+ Magic Resistance) resist?

Also the exact magic resistance stat of servants resists magecraft, not direct concepts from what I understand. For example, Medusa which is the source of CM resistance has B+ Magic Resistance and she can resist magecraft of 3 verses and lower.
Thus they're defending against the whatever verse equalised power makes that conceptual "magic" happen and not the concept itself. Ichibē doesn't use reiatsu to use his concept manipulation so it cannot be verse equalised.

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Page 3. Yhwach can't feel any reiatsu from his sword which means he isn't using "magecraft" to manipulate darkness. Conceptual resistance is via magic resistance enabling magecraft including conceptual magecraft to not work. If the power in question isn't magecraft then there's no reason for it to not work.

 

[Loyd]

cm type 1...
ichibe only wincon is using his higher ap to bonk gil.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Also about Ea.

Gil doesn't immediately bust out tier 1 Ea, he fights with 6-B version first as seen in his fight with Saber.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

EA isn't just AP..there's tons of haxxes on it as well...if I recall correctly. Like space-time rending and obviously soul destruction.
All of which would be smurf.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Except bleach has insane soul haxxes and even mid tiers can destabilise space time (gran ray cero).

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

on a 9D scale?

 

[Loyd]

bleach also has a display of amazing resistance to soul and space manip but apparently EA haxes are smurf which means higher tier

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

on a 9D scale?

They resisted the soul hax from the grail mud, which consist a millions of peoples iirc (that's the old justification, but now it stated that Tiamat chaos tide can affect soul too, but this one i need an elaboration since it's been a while)

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Menos hollows comprise of millions if not billions of souls and Bleach deals with that no problem.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Except bleach has insane soul haxxes and even mid tiers can destabilise space time (gran ray cero).

Not Low 1-C Space-Time hax. Ea is ******* ridiculous.

on a 9D scale?

It's 6-D in this key, Still stupid tho.

SNI tells Gil this guy can one-shot him, he throws GoB, it doesn't work, he decides to get semi-serious, put on his armor, and proceeds to throw out thousands, then tens of thousands, then- okay you get the point. Eventually Gil lands a hit with wither Ea or a concept weapon and wins.

They resisted the soul hax from the grail mud, which consist a millions of peoples iirc (that's the old justification, but now it stated that Tiamat chaos tide can affect soul too, but this one i need an elaboration since it's been a while)

I think it was CRT'd, regardless right now Gil's resistance to space-time hax is 6-D and his resistance to soul hax is 8-D.

Menos hollows comprise of millions if not billions of souls and Bleach deals with that no problem.

Not against 8-D soul hax resistance. That is several infinities above literally everything and everyone in bleach.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Hmm..thanks for correction on smurf.

 

[DaReaperMan]

And before it is said, Ea is always 6-D hax. It's just whatever AP Gil happens to be blasting at the time.

 

[Loyd]

nasu hax for you cringe yea? i know

put on his armor,

no OP stated he starts in armor, if he didn't have the armor gil would be a splatter on the pavement lol

 

[DaReaperMan]

Oh right lol

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I remember that @CrimsonStarFallen said the soul hax are 4-D in his wall iirc

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Firstly leaving Ea aside for a moment (I'll get back to it)

SNI tells Gil this guy can one-shot him, he throws GoB, it doesn't work, he decides to get semi-serious, put on his armor, and proceeds to throw out thousands, then tens of thousands, then- okay you get the point. Eventually Gil lands a hit with wither Ea or a concept weapon and wins

If Gilgamesh isn't pulling out Ea instantly at full power nothing else is going to work. Ichibē can just neg any weapons that are still 3D with his shikai, and I've already argued above why Ichibē's CM works on Gil. Even if it doesn't he makes armor worthless by using his shikai then AP stomps him if Gil doesn't pull out full power Ea first.

Ea

Gil has never immediately pulled out Ea with tier 1 AP and haxx before. Even against Saber he pulls out an incomplete Ea and matches her Excalibur (which is not more than 3-D, look at the profiles) instead of going "Ea GG" that's being professed here. This obviously implies that Ea is usually not 1-C, or Gilgamesh doesn't go 1-C with Ea. Gilgamesh's profile also lists Ea as 6-B when not full power and Gil never pulls out full power Ea instantly because both are in their normal personalities.

Ichibē has higher AP excluding full Ea, he can negate any phantasms from GoB and armor with his own conceptual manipulation (and Gilgamesh too because his conceptual manipulation isn't magecraft as it doesn't use reiatsu thus cannot come under magic resistance but he can take it without that) and just AP stomps him then.

I know that full power Gilgamesh stomps but we're talking about their normal personalities, not bloodlusted Gilgamesh.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Firstly leaving Ea aside for a moment (I'll get back to it)



If Gilgamesh isn't pulling out Ea instantly at full power nothing else is going to work. Ichibē can just neg any weapons that are still 3D with his shikai, and I've already argued above why Ichibē's CM works on Gil. Even if it doesn't he makes armor worthless by using his shikai then AP stomps him if Gil doesn't pull out full power Ea first.

Gil has never immediately pulled out Ea with tier 1 AP and haxx before. Even against Saber he pulls out an incomplete Ea and matches her Excalibur (which is not more than 3-D, look at the profiles) instead of going "Ea GG" that's being professed here. This obviously implies that Ea is usually not 1-C, or Gilgamesh doesn't go 1-C with Ea. Gilgamesh's profile also lists Ea as 6-B when not full power and Gil never pulls out full power Ea instantly because both are in their normal personalities.

Ichibē has higher AP excluding full Ea, he can negate any phantasms from GoB and armor with his own conceptual manipulation (and Gilgamesh too because his conceptual manipulation isn't magecraft as it doesn't use reiatsu thus cannot come under magic resistance but he can take it without that) and just AP stomps him then.

I know that full power Gilgamesh stomps but we're talking about their normal personalities, not bloodlusted Gilgamesh.

And before it is said, Ea is always 6-D hax. It's just whatever AP Gil happens to be blasting at the time.

What about this says AP to you?

Not to mention Gil is arrogant and overconfident, but he isn't an idiot, far from it. He's one of the most intelligent beings in fate, he is just REALLY arrogant. In fact we've seen Gil in-character and willing to kill, especially when he isn't challenged first. He's far more willing to drop his full power against someone who just attacks him as he considers it an insult.

Now I'm having internet issues so I won't be able to respond regularly.

 

[Loyd]

from 2018 im seeing mentions of 5-A gil or something nasu probably wasn't upgraded to the level they have now

this is a vsbw thread narrative/plot/pis is a non factor, if enough people agree Gil with restricted sni decides ichibei's enough of a threat that hes gonna pull his most sacred treasure Ea really hard to refute it honestly.

 

[DaReaperMan]

this is a vsbw thread narrative/plot/pis is a non factor, if enough people agree Gil with restricted sni decides ichibei's enough of a threat that hes gonna pull his most sacred treasure Ea really hard to refute it honestly.

From Gil's perspective starting off Ichibe is just a guy with "Monk who Calls the Real Name" as a title. He's not going to instantly believe that guy can indeed one-shot him

 

[Loyd]

From Gil's perspective starting off Ichibe is just a guy with "Monk who Calls the Real Name" as a title. He's not going to instantly believe that guy can indeed one-shot him

well other people seem to think that Ichibei having the ap to one shot would mean hes pulling Ea, no trashtalk, no danmaku like the usual? hes ap is enough to one shot me? im pulling Ea.

fun