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1-A JTTW & Abilities CRT
- Thread starter ActuallySpaceMan42
- Start date
- Status
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Just a heads up: I myself will be very busy IRL - likely situation continues until late November earliest. Likely still able to chit chat here but will have little quality time to do evaluations or work with a computer on serious stuffs.
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Bumo
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Waiting for Ultima to counterargue currently
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And also, to tackle with what the author is intended to scale the characters and the omniverse at.
I have my own approach, which will be independent against this CRT.
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I see. A good thing or a bad thing tho?
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Not good or bad, just my own independent research that would not affect the progress of this CRT for the time being.
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I see
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Nump
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Vsrump
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I mean, it would kinda imply it. If a grain of sand contains a world and that's explicitly stated, wouldn't it be an even bigger assumption that that's the only grain that does, and not others as well?
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Unless this is a rule on the wiki I feel this isn't really true. Now, while I agree that the context of the story is more important than the irl concept, it is still important to consider what the irl concept actually refers to. Ultima made some interesting points about it being more metaphorical rather than some literal thing.
Now, does this apply to the novel? Maybe not. I think the scans presented give some validity to the idea of a multiverse with worlds beyond measure and stuff like that, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss his argument simply because he uses the actual ideas that the novel draws from.
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This isn't exactly true. A verse can be upgraded based on real-life concepts if the verse itself actually follows those rules accurately and fits the requirements for the upgrade. But for a downgrade, all you really need to suggest is that the real-life concept that the fiction uses isn't literal and wouldn't really get a tier, and discussion for a downgrade would be okay.
Now, I haven't read these novels, so I can't really make a strong assertion for whether Ultima is or isn't right here. I think some good counterpoints were made to his arguments.
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Threads of interest:
Editing Rules
The VS Battles Wiki presently consists of 35,264 pages, most of them listing the statistics of characters across different fictional franchises. However, there is a tremendous amount of work involved in maintaining the accuracy of statistics and upholding a high quality for the profiles. In...
vsbattles.fandom.com
As per the site rules, one cannot make profiles referencing real life Buddhism (correction: derivative or being about its concepts). As such, in the following threads, it was decided to take information strictly from within the novel itself, which originally caused so much uproar from the separation of its most complex concepts (those being from real life daoism and buddhism) that folk preferred it be deleted entirely.
However, in the last thread, @ActuallySpaceMan after many many months managed to create a profile strictly using information from the novel itself, as any interpretation from outside it was rejected.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,053
- 5,983
I think you read this incorrectly
Imagine me and you standing together in a desert or beach. And I said
"All grains of sands in the world contains a universe of its own".
That does not mean that inside those universes from the grain of sands, their own sands too contain universes and continues in an infinite recursion. That is a bigger assumption, and you know my motto
Extraordinary tier requires Extraordinary proof
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That requires more proof than the former. It's like trying to say the speed of light isn't the same when reflected.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,053
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I don't know how you came to that, but thats not what I mean
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I mean...my analogy is quite clear. So what were you trying to say then?
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That isn't an apt comparison. Pain makes a pretty interesting argument. Yes, it states that a single grain of sand could contain multiple worlds or something like that, but why would this mean that all grains of sand within these worlds would follow the same principle? If it does, could you send the necessary evidence for this?
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What he's trying to say is that it's a reach to assume that there's an infinite recursion just because a statement was made about a grain of sand containing worlds was made. I think he makes a good point. Now, if you have more evidence to support this infinite recursion idea, then I think that would put the argument at rest, but up until that point, his argument stands.
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Because since this is the subsection of the dharma that causes it and also because the dharma would fill every single gap. There is no gap that it does not fill.
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Could someone help me with this image I don't know how to unblank it
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I can't see the image. Is there another way you should send it?Because since this is the subsection of the dharma that causes it and also because the dharma would fill every single gap. There is no gap that it does not fill.
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It's on the jttw cosmology page. Dharma section
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- Thread starter
- #309
Honestly, we already went over this a while ago, and other stuff aside no one has countered a clear correlation.
- Buddha's have Buddha-Realms.
- Buddha-Realms have Infinite Universes in them.
- Buddha's are confirmed to exist in every Universe.
Why?
Because it's not stated, cause we need 100% 16th Century Novel Statement apparently.
Anyway after that basically everyone was in agreement, except Ultima who brought Religion in as an argument.
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Just for me being an idiot, could you send the relevant scans for these three points again?
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- Thread starter
- #312
And it's flat-out stated Buddha's Realms exist in grains of sand.
This can be taken as, each grain of sand has its own Buddha-Realm OR it can be taken as each grain of sand has its own world, and naturally, each world has it's own Buddha-Realm so of course, every Buddha-Realm exists in the grain of sand of a higher world.
Either way it's recursion.
This can be taken as, each grain of sand has its own Buddha-Realm OR it can be taken as each grain of sand has its own world, and naturally, each world has it's own Buddha-Realm so of course, every Buddha-Realm exists in the grain of sand of a higher world.
Either way it's recursion.
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Which is already provided above
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- Thread starter
- #316
Honestly, this CRT has been getting pushed back much more than necessary. The majority have agreed with our stance including staff members and the only two proposing arguments are Ultima & Pain.
Pain's argument is straight up saying "All worlds doesn't mean all worlds" and I honestly can't believe anyone would agree with such a claim that blatantly goes against the Author's intent.
And Ultima is relying on Religion which blatantly goes against the rules of the wiki.
The fact these two arguments which are so loosely based, have been holding this CRT up for literally months is insane.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,053
- 5,983
That's a bit wrong what I am saying is
"All worlds" can simply mean all worlds within the current universe, not that all worlds even the worlds between the worlds that are inside the worlds that are also inside the worlds.
Kind of a reach, I have not see a conclusive evidence that you provided to at least clear this up. You need to provide proof within the context when the statement "all worlds" was made
I know little about the verse, so you need to be able to at least explain to a layman why your argument is right and mine is wrong.
Try and make a single post just detail all the things you think that may go against my notion. And if I find it valid sure I agree, if I don't, I will try and explain what I see there
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- Thread starter
- #318
Do you see how you need to add an entire sentence that the Author never hinted at to justify your reasoning, instead of just taking "All" as it's proper definition?
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- Thread starter
- #319
Honestly, I'm not doing this, this is ridiculous and honestly unfair. Not a single verse on this wiki is getting the ridiculous treatment JTTW is getting right now.
Like maybe it was an argument of different meanings or whatever, but the fact I'm sitting here trying to convince someone that All Universes, don't refer to a limited group of Universes in this Universe is absolutely insane.
What more does an Author need to do? He says there are infinite worlds, he says there are worlds within worlds, and then the Narrator after all the confirmation of how worlds work, says there are Buddhas in all worlds.
And I have to prove, that he meant all worlds? Like what the hell is that nonsense, it's pissing me off and I don't get irritated easily.
Like maybe it was an argument of different meanings or whatever, but the fact I'm sitting here trying to convince someone that All Universes, don't refer to a limited group of Universes in this Universe is absolutely insane.
What more does an Author need to do? He says there are infinite worlds, he says there are worlds within worlds, and then the Narrator after all the confirmation of how worlds work, says there are Buddhas in all worlds.
And I have to prove, that he meant all worlds? Like what the hell is that nonsense, it's pissing me off and I don't get irritated easily.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,053
- 5,983
Again if I am in a room full of cats and I said "all the cats are sick"
It does not mean all the cats on the world are sick, just the ones in this room
And with proper context, it can mean all the cats in the world.
I dont need to add anything.
And it's the same as always extraordinary high tier requires extraordinary proof.
You claim there is an infinite recursion, but you have yet to show them or at least what I said on my last post above
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