• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

1-A JTTW & Abilities CRT

Status
Not open for further replies.
Pain_to12 said:
There are 19 Buddhas in the world, if we are to say each Buddha realm is a grain of sand, that is 19 grains of sand.
Click to expand...
There are 19 Buddha's in ALL Worlds, meaning multiple copies of the same Buddha's. The 19 Buddha's don't define how many grains of sand there are, they are in each grain of sand cause each grain of sand has a world that as stated already, has to have 19 Buddha's.
Pain_to12 said:
So where exactly does any of these scans point to your arguement that "Each of the 19 grain of sands also contain another world that contains 19 grains of sand and this continues infintely"
Click to expand...
Its state's that there are worlds within each grain of sand yes. It also say's Buddha's Realm exists within a grain of sand.

Firstly, So far, we have been introduced to only 1 Buddha's Realm, and that's the one in the JTTW Main Universe.

It's telling you "Hey, even the current Buddha Realm exists within a grain of sand, cause worlds in general exist within grains of sand, oh also there are Buddha's in all worlds with their own Realms."

While you can say it's up to interpretation, I feel mine is better than assuming Buddha's being in all worlds suddenly stops one layer deep, cause "Reasons".
 
ActuallySpaceMan said:
There are 19 Buddha's in ALL Worlds, meaning multiple copies of the same Buddha's. The 19 Buddha's don't define how many grains of sand there are, they are in each grain of sand cause each grain of sand has a world that as stated already, has to have 19 Buddha's.

Its state's that there are worlds within each grain of sand yes. It also say's Buddha's Realm exists within a grain of sand.

Firstly, So far, we have been introduced to only 1 Buddha's Realm, and that's the one in the JTTW Main Universe.

It's telling you "Hey, even the current Buddha Realm exists within a grain of sand, cause worlds in general exist within grains of sand, oh also there are Buddha's in all worlds with their own Realms."

While you can say it's up to interpretation, I feel mine is better than assuming Buddha's being in all worlds suddenly stops one layer deep, cause "Reasons".
Click to expand...
The entire thing here is that you are relying on heavy assumptions. Like really heavy and most of what you bring can be up for different interpretations and your version of it is really shaky.
Planck69 said:
What seems to be the summary of the current discussion?
Click to expand...
OP and this post I guess
Post in thread '1-A JTTW & Abilities CRT'
https://vsbattles.com/threads/1-a-jttw-abilities-crt.140601/post-5271983
 
Pain_to12 said:
The entire thing here is that you are relying on heavy assumptions. Like really heavy and most of what you bring can be up for different interpretations and your version of it is really shaky.
Click to expand...
We did not, this thing is far more stable than you're making out.
 
Did Ultima help out here previously as well? I can call for him in that case.
 
Can somebody write an explanation post for everything that currently needs to be evaluated here please? I can call for Ultima and some other knowledgeable staff members afterwards.
 
I'm just going to keep this post saved since I have to keep reposting it.
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
1. Buddha's are stated to exist in all worlds, each Buddha has their own realm containing infinite other worlds, which would cause recursion.

2. Grains of sand are stated to contain entire worlds, this should apply to the sands in all worlds as it's never specifically stated to only affect a singular world, which would also cause recursion.

3. It's confirmed that even the world where the Main JTTW Story take's place is within a grain of sand, which hint's that the recursion is real.

4. JTTW's showings of larger things fitting into smaller thing's is stated to be modeled after the Mahayana Cosmology, which is recursive.
Click to expand...
 
Antvasima said:
Can somebody write an explanation post for everything that currently needs to be evaluated here please? I can call for Ultima and some other knowledgeable staff members afterwards.
Click to expand...
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
1. Buddha's are stated to exist in all worlds, each Buddha has their own realm containing infinite other worlds, which would cause recursion.

2. Grains of sand are stated to contain entire worlds, this should apply to the sands in all worlds as it's never specifically stated to only affect a singular world, which would also cause recursion.

3. It's confirmed that even the world where the Main JTTW Story take's place is within a grain of sand, which hint's that the recursion is real.

4. JTTW's showings of larger things fitting into smaller thing's is stated to be modeled after the Mahayana Cosmology, which is recursive.
Click to expand...
@Ultima_Reality @Zaratthustra @Jasonsith @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @DontTalkDT @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @KingPin0422 @Pain_to12 @Everything12 @Planck69 @Agnaa @GreatIskandar14045

Are any of you willing to help out with evaluating this thread please? You can obviously ask any questions about it that you wish.
 
Last edited:
I already evaluated this, in this post https://vsbattles.com/threads/1-a-jttw-abilities-crt.140601/post-5271983
here is what is in the post
So, I am going to write out the scans that are supposed to prove the infinite recursions, word for word.
1.
The Phoenix-immortal prefecture offends Heaven and suffers drought
The Great sage sun advocates virtue and provides rain


The great way's hidden and deep--
How it waxes and wanes
Once told, will astonish both gods and spirits
Enfolding the universe
Cutting through the one's native light,
It grants the world true, matchless bliss,
Before the Spirit Vulture peak,
The treasure pearl when take out
will blaze forth five kinds of radiance
To illuminate all life in the cosmos;
Those who know live long as mountains and seas
Click to expand...
2.
The Image of true chan's no common view:
The great way causes the cosmos imbue
In power Gold and wood fill the dharma sphere
Tossing spatila and ubiquity cohere
At all times divine arms can their might lay bare
Elixir vessels are honored everywhere
Though India's are lofty, one must nature coerce
Jade-Flower Princes all to teh Mean reverses
Click to expand...
3.
Both Mind and Buddha are important things
If you perceive there is neither mind nor thing
Yours is the dharmakiya of true mind
The dharmakiya
Has no shape or form
One pearl like radiance holding myraid things
The bodiless body is the body true
And real form is that form which has no form
There is no form, no void, no no-emptiness
No coming, No leaving, no parindmana
NO contrast, no sameness, no being or nonbeing
No giving, no taking, no hopeful craving
Light effacious is in and out the same
Buddha's whole realm is in a grain of sand
A grain of sand the chiliocosm holds;
One mind or body's like ten thousand things
To know this you must grasp the No-mind spell
Unclogged and taintless is the karma pure
Don't do many acts of good or ill
This true submission to sakyamuni
Click to expand...
4.
I wishto submit to the Buddha of Great perfect light
........... (all in all there were 19 buddhas, can't type all)
Such are there various Buddhas in all the worlds

I wish to use these merits
To adorn Buddha's pure land
To repay fourfold grace above
And save those on three paths below
If there are those who see and hear,
Their minds will find enlightment
Their births with us in paradise
Will be this body's recompense
All the Buddhas of past, present and future in all the world,
The various Honoured Bodhisattvas and Mahasattvas
Maha-prajna-paramital
Click to expand...

And here is the OP argument
So what is the point I'm getting at? Simply put the worlds that exist within grains of sand should in turn also have worlds within them, leading to a recursion effect.
I have three reasons for my logic that I'll just briefly summarize.

1. Firstly Chilicosm & Buddha-Realm's statement says "A grain of sand", not a grain of sand in this world, just a grain of sand. It's a very broad statement referring to every grain of sand pretty clearly. On top of that, it states clearly that a Buddha's entire realm exists within a grain of sand. That would also have to include the one in the Main JTTW World.

2. It's also stated that Buddhas exist in every world. That would have to include the lower worlds as well, in which the Buddhas within those lower worlds would also have their own realms.

3. If the Great Way scans do indeed mean it's responsible for these recursions of larger things such as Worlds, Buddha-Realms, Mountains, and Oceans being within smaller things, then why would it not affect the lower worlds within the Universe it already encompasses?
Click to expand...

Now the questions, where does it say anything about infinte recursion, your third point is a large assumption.
There are 19 Buddhas in the world, if we are to say each Buddha realm is a grain of sand, that is 19 grains of sand. Not the way you make it look without the full scans contexts.
So where exactly does any of these scans point to your arguement that "Each of the 19 grain of sands also contain another world that contains 19 grains of sand and this continues infintely"
Like where exactly? cause nothing here proves anything remotely close to 1-A
And I don't want to be nitpicking but "The Buddha's realm is in a grain of sand" is actually very iffy and not a generic statement but about a spell
 
He is still interested, but has been busy with exams for the last months.
 
I'm not massively fluent in 1-A discussions or journey to the west, so I don't think I'd be much help here. Apologies.
 
Okay. That is unfortunate.
 
I think Painto12 is right. I don't think it's means to be more than spell words and it doesn't say the same as what the person say.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

LazerDim8000
  • Locked
Journey To The West tier upgrade
Replies
4
Views
2K
LazerDim8000
LazerDim8000
JimedBro2020
  • Locked
JTTW needs a MASSIVE upgrade
Replies
5
Views
2K
JimedBro2020
JimedBro2020
StrymULTRA
Sun Wukong Infinite speed problem???
Replies
8
Views
2K
StrymULTRA
StrymULTRA
Lloydblitzed
  • Locked
Lego Monkie Kid Upgrades
Replies
28
Views
2K
Lloydblitzed
Lloydblitzed
Gasper
Sun Wukong abilities addition
Replies
7
Views
2K
LordGriffin1000
LordGriffin1000
Back
Top