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Qawsedf234
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  • Hi, sorry to bother ya again but first Azathoth made a thread here and we've been arguing for a bit and wanted more opinions.

    I would also appreciate it if you could reply to my counterargument in the other thread about the anime version
    Hello. When you have the time to spare, could you please evaluate this CRT and give your input? I refined it a lot based on our previous conversation.
    hi can you help evaluate this CRT, This crt has been running for quite a long time.
    Hey Qaw, I had a question about the MCU that's been bothering me for a while. I’ve talked to a few others, and it seems like a lot of people share the same concerns. I wanted to ask you first before possibly making a CRT. Sorry to disturb and thanks a lot in advance!! This might be a tad long though

    This statement says that Wanda "turned the Darkhold's dark magic against itself." In other words, she used the Darkhold’s own power to destroy it across the multiverse. To me, this clearly indicates that it wasn’t Wanda’s own magic that accomplished the feat, and therefore it shouldn't be used as a basis for her AP rating.

    After giving it some thought, the only logically viable interpretation is that she triggered a kind of self-destruction mechanism in every universe by redirecting the Darkhold's dark magic back onto itself.

    This suggests that every Darkhold operates through a shared connection to this "multiversal well of evil," possibly with each copy drawing power from the same source of dark magic, exactly like a well. That's why it's likely Wanda tampered with the source of this dark magic, used the Darkhold's dark magic against that source or well, and triggered the self-destruction mechanism in the other Darkholds. If not, then at the very least it suggests there’s some sort of connection between the Darkholds.

    The wording in the WoG statements and from Wanda herself supports this interpretation: they emphasize that Wanda "cut off the links" to the multiversal well of evil, and Wanda herself said she had "to close it" when referring to the Darkhold.

    While Wanda was dreamwalking in Kamar-Taj, a sorcerer named Sarah tried to stop her by destroying the Darkhold. When she pierced the book with a dagger, it triggered a reaction, the Darkhold ignited with magical fire, burning both itself and Sarah to ashes. Later, when Wanda destroyed the Darkhold across the multiverse, each one was consumed by a similar magical fire.

    That’s why I support the idea that there’s a built-in self-destruct mechanism, some form of magical self-immolation used as a defensive measure.

    Honestly, I'm not even sure why we scale this feat. It's incredibly weird and inconsistent to scale. The Darkhold is a known amplification totem, a book of dark magic and a storage of chaos magic. Throughout Multiverse of Madness, Wanda was empowered by the Darkhold for nearly the entire film, which is further supported by the MCU Timeline Book stating that Wanda had new dark powers from the Darkhold during her attack on Kamar-Taj.

    Her current key is labeled as being "at peak," specifically during the moment she destroyed the Darkhold, which is pretty misleading and inaccurate. There’s no indication she somehow reached her absolute peak power during that brief two-minute window when she destroyed the book. This would also imply an uncountably infinite increase in power, going from Tier 5 to Tier 2, which is absurd considering she was already bloodlusted and actively empowered by the Darkhold in many earlier scenes.

    If Wanda was already empowered by the Darkhold during the Kamar-Taj sequence, and her peak is defined as being while empowered by the Darkhold (according to both her profile and the CRT that originally upgraded her), then by that logic the sorcerers’ shield would have to be capable of withstanding infinite AP. That seems extremely implausible given the finite number of sorcerers and the finite nature of their magical power.

    To me, this seems more like low complex multi range via hax, specifically energy manipulation (magic), or limited causality manipulation, rather than a raw AP feat.
    Ptumri9
    Ptumri9
    bump
    Qawsedf234
    Qawsedf234
    While I can't comment from an official standpoint, I think a lot of your points make sense and would lead to a key change at least. I will say that you'll need to properly address her current AP justification:
    up to Universe Level+ at peak (Was empowered by the Darkhold, which allowed her to draw energy from other dimensions within the Multiverse.[10] She later used the Darkhold's dark magic to destroy every version of it across all universes, of which there are an uncountably infinite number within the Multiverse.[10][5][11] It was stated that she will one day possess the power to bend reality to her will or destroy it entirely,[12] as she is prophesied to either rule or annihilate the cosmos, a prophecy she was confident in achieving. However, she had no intention of acting upon it[5]).
    And explain why the justifications would be wrong. If you can't prove for sure that there is a self-destruct function, then Wanda while amped by the book still destroyed it an uncountable infinite number of times.
    Ptumri9
    Ptumri9
    The script of DS:MOM states that Sara destroyed the Darkhold and turned to ashes, and also uses the wording that she burned the Darkhold and reduced it to ashes. Later, when Wanda destroys the Darkhold across the multiverse, the script again explicitly uses the term burn, in the same way it did for Sara. To me this suggests a deliberate parallel.

    As for proving this without a doubt, I'm not sure. However, there is a solid amount of supporting evidence pointing in that direction on multiple occasions.

    Also, if I remember correctly, in an older CRT that tried to upgrade Wanda based on this feat, you mentioned that you believed she redirected the Darkhold's power back onto itself. That was the reason she couldn't be scaled from it. That was quite a while ago, but there’s now evidence that supports that view.

    On top of that, the original CRT that led to her upgrade wasn’t handled very well. Several people questioned why it was no longer considered a hax-based feat, and that issue was never properly addressed. It was simply approved as it was.

    And even if we do consider this a Darkhold feat, then technically anyone who possesses the Darkhold could perform the same action. That’s actually why I avoided suggesting that route. It would introduce a lot of scaling problems, especially since 616 Strange was able to overpower a supposedly Darkhold-enhanced counterpart (Sinister Strange).

    Also, half of her AP justification is based on hypotheticals. I had actually rewritten the first part some time ago because the original wording was very misleading.

    I'm still confused about how this isn't considered an outlier if we’re not treating it as hax.

    In general, this feat is extremely odd. As far as I know, there’s no other similar feat anywhere on the wiki, so there’s no real precedent for how to handle it.
    Hi! We're like, one vote away! Could you please help out if you have the time? Thanks!

    Good day. A few months ago, you helped me a lot with Dark Tower's promotion to High 1-A. Thank you. Now, finally, could you please express your opinion on this content revision? 🙏🏼
    Hello, I wanted to ask something if you don't mind. In Thor 4 it's stated that the Necrosword has existed since the beginning of time:
    -What’s a Necrosword?
    -It’s an ancient weapon that’s been passed through hands since the dawn of time.
    While the book "Marvel Studios 100 Objects: Iconic Artifacts from the MCU" states that it is as old as the universe itself:
    9797455-untitled.png
    Would that imply that the creation of the universe by Arishem also began time in it? If so, he also would have created the Cosmic Entities like Eternity (the embodiment of the universe who represents all time in it):
    Entropy came into being at the beginning of time along with his father Eternity. Entropy's purpose is destruction: this drive pits him in a constant struggle with Eternity whose goal is creation. Together they keep the cycles of creation and destruction in balance.
    So, would that make Arishem Low 2-C?
    RoTt35
    RoTt35
    Well, thanks for your time. Btw, would Arishem creating the Infinity Stones that possess said concepts from the singularities grant him anything?
    Qawsedf234
    Qawsedf234
    If he made them it could lead to more conceptual manipulation probably
    RoTt35
    RoTt35
    I made a CRT about that, I would appreciate if you could check it when you have time, thanks in advance
    Hey, can we get your opinion on this? It is about low 2C, 2C and Type 1 & 2 concepts in verse.

    Input would be greatly appreciated

    Could you check this out?

    Can you check out this crt please

    Heya! Could you check this thread? Thanks!

    Can you evaluate this CRT? Thank you in advance
    Could you check out this Star Wars Legends CRT?
    Hello Qawsed! I have a question about a rather complicated matter. I saw that you participated in the original CRT, and you definitely seemed knowledgeable. It's not urgent, but I would appreciate it if you could take a look at it whenever you have some free time. Thanks a lot in advance! 🙏

    Sorry to bother, Could You check this out please? Thanks in advance

    Could you check this out?

    Hello! If you don't mind, could you evaluate this CRT when you have the time? It only needs 1 more staff, and it's about the addition of a key, and not really that many new additions. Just check the last key, and that's it.
    Hi, could you evaluate this thread please? 🙏

    Yo got a question that I want some answers to out of curiosity. Thanks

    Hey, would you mind if I proposed this in a staff thread about a possible rework of the disease manip page. It's about 9 years old and has had no significant changes since its creation, along with the fact that I realized the wiki has no reliable ability for the control of bacteria (even though it in theory should have a similar page to animal, plant, and fungi manip).

    https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Chritin060/SandboxDisease
    • Like
    Reactions: Crobatman44
    Qawsedf234
    Qawsedf234
    Yeah, you can propose the change. But any change to an ability page is usually long and prone to rewrites as a warning.
    Chritin
    Chritin
    I expected as much lol.
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