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Touhou Discussion Thread 4 ⌈Fossilized Wonders Edition⌋
- Thread starter Wonder_of_Fantasy
- Start date
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Yukari never meant to fight Toyohime as you said. From the start, her plan depended on distracting the sisters and making them think they won— So that Yuyuko could sneak around for a month in the capital and steal the sake, which Yukari later used to terrorize Eirin in CiLR since it was her actual main objective.
Well, as I said, this has no evidence behind it. They have never been compared to each other. Nothing about Toyohime's strength has ever been talked about at all. Even ZUN glazes only Yorihime in that "too strong to be put in a game" interview.
A big power difference between Yorihime and Toyohime doesn't sound too far off, considering that Flan and Remilia are in the same boat— and mainly because we don't really have any reason to assume there isn't a big gap.
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Toyohime vs Yorihime vs Hecatia, who wins the fraud off
Wonder_of_Fantasy
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Rumia
Wonder_of_Fantasy
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True
SomeJJJJ
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SomeJJJJ
Username Only- 259
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this thread was so hype aura moments
I think that if they had been a little more patient, Utsuho would have achieved a good feat that would have justified her position as 2-C much more, since in the translations, it is said that she was going to "return everything to blaze" & "all there is". This is almost certain, given that she states that it had been a long time since she had been pushed so far, referring to the events of SA and the only reason it didn't was because Yukari deflected her giant fireball against her. This would also have given Reimu/Utsuho some good justifications for Stamina, since they were battling in the Old Hell to the point where they reached the surface (i.e Gensokyo) though, I'm not so sure how far distance is... but the thread is dead, so, rip.
I think that if they had been a little more patient, Utsuho would have achieved a good feat that would have justified her position as 2-C much more, since in the translations, it is said that she was going to "return everything to blaze" & "all there is". This is almost certain, given that she states that it had been a long time since she had been pushed so far, referring to the events of SA and the only reason it didn't was because Yukari deflected her giant fireball against her. This would also have given Reimu/Utsuho some good justifications for Stamina, since they were battling in the Old Hell to the point where they reached the surface (i.e Gensokyo) though, I'm not so sure how far distance is... but the thread is dead, so, rip.
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churno day
Also, my favorite Demetori album might be that early collab they did with UI-70; it's in my top 3. Kind of its own ethereal in that protean sound design at moments. Sound design is not clean -- but in a good way. Textured. Chord strums such as that around 3:25 are subtle but kinda astonishing.
Also, my favorite Demetori album might be that early collab they did with UI-70; it's in my top 3. Kind of its own ethereal in that protean sound design at moments. Sound design is not clean -- but in a good way. Textured. Chord strums such as that around 3:25 are subtle but kinda astonishing.
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On this, what would be the order between Metaphysical Aspects in Touhou, between Info and Name/Concept?
ExcelsisBerny
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Wonder_of_Fantasy
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Simmering on it for a while, I think Touhou treats the two as opposites of one another or possibly the same.
It seems that both “Names” (i.e, what the series treats as Concepts) and “Life Information” (as the term suggests, Info Type 2) function as anchors of existence for the non-human cast. A Name can bring Gods into being by manifesting one or multiple limited aspects of itself, while Information (both Type 1 and 2) is what gives rise to Youkai, going off of the new content in Fossilized Wonders. When either is diminished or lost, a character weakens or disappears entirely, which suggests the two aren’t ordered hierarchically, but instead seemingly operate similarly to one another.
You could argue the series treats these Metaphysical Aspects as identical, but there’s less direct evidence for that than there is corroborating implication. I vaguely recall material in Symposium of Post-Mysticism that might point toward this, but I’d have to revisit it.
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The simple answer is: Gods are Conceptual in nature, whereas Youkai are Informational in nature. If there is a hierarchy of Metaphysical Aspects, it would likely be one of the following (very rough draft):
- Nameless (NEP) > Names (CM) ≥ Life Information (IN Type 2)
- Nameless (NEP) > Names (CM) = Life Information (IN Type 2)
(Reality itself was created when the Gods gave everything a “name.” Anything lacking a name is without distinction or definition and thus non-existent in nature—much like the Gods before creation. Youkai are repeatedly described as inferior to Gods: they are Informational beings born from collective human fear, knowledge, and misinformation, whereas Gods manifest through collective human faith, Names, and can embody one or more conceptual aspects of their Nameless form. That said, the power of these manifested aspects is always substantially weaker than a God's Nameless form. Both Named Gods and Youkai, however, rely on human perception and belief to sustain their existence. Shrine maidens such as Reimu and Sanae act as vessels for the gods by Naming themselves as such, allowing them to manifest their aspects in both combat and ritual. Yorihime also does this in Silent Sinner in Perfect Blue.)
It’s also worth pointing out that Impurity (also described as “Life Information”) naturally corrupts anything possessing Purity, stripping away its timeless and eternal nature. Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom explores this at length through Junko, while Ariya’s ability manipulates Impurity in the same way by rendering Gensokyo timeless in Fossilized Wonders. In Silent Sinner in Blue, the Lunarians describe Earth as overflowing with Impurity (again, “Life Information”) and regard simply living there as a punishment. Even Toyohime tells Reimu to leave the Moon for carrying Life Information/Impurity in Fossilized Wonders.
The Lunarians have also gone to great lengths to preserve the Lunar Capital as a pure and timeless land. The Asama Purifying Mountain (i.e., the pyramid in FW) was constructed to filter out Impurity, keeping the Capital pure and timeless. At the same time, it also serves Gensokyo by cleansing the excess Impurity that would otherwise accumulate there, especially since, as revealed in the Extra Stage, even falsehoods and misinformation can threaten a Youkai’s existence. We also know this because Nina's existence was stated to be at risk after she learned the conspiracies and misinformation that caused her to manifest were false. In this sense, the pyramid functions as a massive collective information filter, preventing mistruths from the Outside World from passing into fantasy. Both Yuiman and the Pryamid broke from the excess of misinformation and falsehoods generated by humans through AI tools, which caused it to go kaput, and Ariya to retaliate against the Capital for nearly sacrificing Gensokyo to save themselves.
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ExcelsisBerny
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Reimu, for some reason, is confident that she can wipe out all the citizens of the Lunar Capital, lmao.
Fantasy Nature GG
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Basically this, though I'll add for the unfamiliar that virtually all supernatural beings in Touhou have layered immortality on more than one front. Such as how human belief in general sustains the existence of youkai (mentioned frequently but with most detail in Perfect Memento in Strict Sense), who without that acknowledgement reform in Gensokyo and even then can still re-emerge from, say, youma books as seen in Forbidden Scrollery. And non-god/lesser youkai can also embody concepts in a Type-8 Immortality/Abstract Existence sort of way, such as Parsee with jealousy (again from Perfect Memento in Strict Sense). This isn't to say those who can interact with their forms can't beat 'em up, but weaknesses aside, our understanding of the full extent of their survivability will be reliant on a full understanding of the cosmology when we're sure about that.
Iirc gods without their names are about the top of the hierarchy -- above even the Outside World, dream realms, etc? -- so I would think that Names for them are more fundamental and above the type of information that youkai are equalized to in 20. Correct if me if I'm wrong, especially about nameless gods being above the Outside World etc.
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I see Concept > Information being the case if Names are the basis of everything in-verse, and Life Information came after them.
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Would this apply to all the youkais in the series? I mean not all youkais have the same origin (i.e stuff keeping them alive). Again I'm just asking
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Even the fodder have insanely haxxed durability, though they also have some weaknesses that could simplify certain matchups (assuming one KO wouldn't be enough for a wincon). But then again, those actually might not be weaknesses so much as layered offensive hax from others doing their work to overcome the defenses. Lot to go over, all in due time. Quite an undertaking since so many things connect to each other, not in a circular-reasoning sort of way but for context & dependencies.
Wonder_of_Fantasy
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Touhou Profile Cleanup & Creation
Touhou Project on this wiki has fallen behind, particularly for the games released since 2017. With limited contributors and hands on-site, the coverage and consistency of Touhou character profiles are lacking. Help is needed and much appreciated for any who can spare the time. The purpose of...
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I mean it could be the fact that it is a sort of holy weapon so it may cut through some mystical stuff like butter
SomeJJJJ
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Something that might interest you guys is that Sakuya made it on to Death Battle’s champion island ( a vote for which character should get their own episode out of the listed by members on the Discord)
This is another chance of getting Touhou on DB
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Cool an- IS THAT HATSUNE MIKU!?
Something that might interest you guys is that Sakuya made it on to Death Battle’s champion island ( a vote for which character should get their own episode out of the listed by members on the Discord)
This is another chance of getting Touhou on DBand unfortunately it looks like the grill master isn’t going to make the cutso guess I’m rooting for her too.
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Oh, no, I am an Okina hater. Well. Kinda. I have two friends that are Okina fans. One claims to be her biggest fan. So I have to try to be nice to Yukari.
no, those jokes can be funny sometimes
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..... I found this gem due of my curiosity with Yuri for the first time back then, when I'm still 12 years old lmao
Spinoirr
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One of my classmates in High school was playing it in the computer lab
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Bro that's not Gohei anymore, that comically long af OdachiAside from the Illuminati-esque symbolism going on; eyes and pyramids, there's something that stuck out to me.
Reimu's Gohei is shaped like a Key. What's funnier is that we know what her Gohei is more than just an artistic choice in the title screen;
Also a little funny that ZUN's trying to pose like Reimu.
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Update: By the grace of God Sakuya has made it to the top three after facing elimination multiple times. This is probably the furthest she’s making it but I’ll always be rooting for her (
Something that might interest you guys is that Sakuya made it on to Death Battle’s champion island ( a vote for which character should get their own episode out of the listed by members on the Discord)
This is another chance of getting Touhou on DBand unfortunately it looks like the grill master isn’t going to make the cutso guess I’m rooting for her too.
Oh yeah her MUs kind of suck ass too unfortunately.
ANYTHING FOR THE CHANCE OF MY GOAT GETTING ON DEATHBATTLE RAHHHHHHH
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Uhh, guys? Should we just retire Low Multiversal Touhou? They literally struggle with snow.
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If you wanna argue for low multiveresal snow, go ahead. : ^)
Jokes aside, just because they give human reactions to some stuff doesn't mean they're not low multiversal. Are we gonna revoke every viable tiering from the playable cast because they couldn't breathe in the cave of TH18 just because air's been lacking there?
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Wouldn't it just be easier to give at least some characters separate variable physical keys depending on how empowered/etc. their current state is or, at least in some cases, something like Blazblue/The Lord of Mystery, standard keys combined with barrier/amplifications/hax/smurf/whatever?
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I'm not sure the site standards allow for varies for something like touhou
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"Mokou (and a few other characters, but I'm picking Mokou because I like her :3) can fight Shion in AoCF without getting ganked by her aura, so she scales above it"
Is this not flat out wrong? Like every single character could not beat Shion and Joon because of their powers, how did they resist it at all, and more importantly why does Mokou and co get the resistance but not Marisa even though both of them fight the duo in the same game and they both lost? Also Marisa even has the Mini Hakero which already gives her luck so why is her luck lesser than Mokou?
Also something I've noticed is that Tenshi can still succumb to Shion's passive bad luck from WaHH so doesn't that mean that Tenshi doesn't fully resist it.
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