Higher Norse's land cosmology - God of War

Pepsimanslover_69 said:

Chaos, Magic, the Primordial force of Fire and Primordial Jotnar Creative Essence.

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I i just realized this doesn't mean much without context.

Chaos is Magic, life energy, The Primordial Fire is the source of all Fire and one halve of what Ymir was born of, and The Primordial Jotnar Creative Essence is what makes up the Realms and where Magic is drawn from, and even allowing them to survive the void that being the realm between realms.

Pepsimanslover_69 said:

Fair enough. Although looking back at the scan, I think it's been misinterpreted.

The scan says this, "some say this traces back to when the two tribes(The Aesir and Vanir) emerged from Ymir's mystic lifeblood- in other words, back when time itself began" This establishes that when the Aesir were born, so did time. And that includes Odin, naturally. I should also note that two realms were created.

As for Surtr, he actually has a Non-Physical form. So I don't think he's a big problem.

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I think the scan's been misinterpreted too, and for good reason. The assumption made is that the tribes emerged from Ymir's mystic lifeblood upon his death, which makes sense considering our bodies; we don't typically bleed unless we're injured or otherwise affected in some way. The problem is that Ymir's blood both existed before him, and led to things changing after he died. I think what might be happening is that the cookbook scan is being interpreted with the latter event in mind rather than the former. I'd like to offer a theory as to what might be happening!

Mimir has some dialogue in 2018 where he tells the tale of Ymir, and in the tale, the Aesir were around to decide they had to kill Ymir, thanks to Odin's instigation.

Mimir: More than water - the mystic life blood of something entirely new. From this water, Ymir took form, and became a being of pure creation and chaos, mother and father to all that came after.

Atreus: Even the Aesir?

Mimir: Aye, every god, man, and beast came first from Ymir’s flesh. Though it was the Aesir who thought themselves so superior that they should hold dominion over the rest of creation. It was Odin who took arms against his creator, and spilled Ymir’s life-blood with his spear. A necessary evil, he would say, to bring Order to the realms. From Ymir’s torn flesh, Odin would fashion the realm of Midgard for his own. Called himself “Allfather” - as if he was the creator, and not the creator’s destroyer. A small… covetous… tyrant…

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The question here then is, well, is Odin an Aesir? If so, then the Aesir and Vanir were around before Ymir's death, and that makes sense considering the way Mimir tells the story. Ymir's mystic life blood barely predated Ymir, and would have been what produced the gods, men, and beasts which emerged from his flesh. (Evidently the giants came out of his armpits.) I don't think Odin was around before the Aesir and then they made him their leader, I don't think I saw anything in the games which suggested that, but I could be wrong! The way Odin tells it, he had two specific reasons for wanting to kill Ymir. "I was young. Foolish. Saw an opportunity to create something more. I know you think it's cruel, but I did what I had to... to protect my own." He specifically leaves "own" unspecified here, but I think he's talking about his people, the Aesir. He wanted to protect them, and was young and impulsive. Atreus' journal entry in God of War 2018 seems to support this interpretation: "So Ymir came from fire and ice, and all lands and creatures came from his flesh... including the Aesir, who then slew him to create "order..." The first Giant was Odin's first victim..."

According to Mimir, Atreus, and Surtr, the beginning wasn't when Ymir died. It was when fire and ice met and produced the mystic life blood of something entirely new. Surtr discusses how the Spark of the World was where "the first realms came into existence." Additionally, we get the following question from Atreus, and answer from Surtr: "Surtr, were you... there? At the beginning of everything?" "Yeah." "What was it like?" "Loud." The problem here is that Surtr wasn't spawned from Ymir's death. He came from Ginnungagap, right after Ymir. He's even specifically noted as having come from Muspelheim, the source of all fire. Mimir specifically uses the phrase "Dawn of Creation" to discuss Muspelheim, that which Surtr, who came directly after Ymir, came from. The term "dawn" is used to discuss the beginning of something. This wouldn't mean anything if time didn't exist. This might seem a bit nitpicky, but it's directly stated, alongside Atreus considering the time before Ymir's death to be the beginning of everything. If Atreus had said something like "Before the beginning of everything," if Mimir had said "before creation," then I'd agree with the timelessness interpretation, but the wording that made it to the final product doesn't seem to support the timelessness claim to me.

I mentioned that there was another event the cookbook's event was conflated with, and that one's much more chaotic. (Incidentally, it's also the one Kratos is most excited to hear.) When Ymir was stabbed by Odin, a torrent of blood flooded from the wound, threatening to drown every one of the Jötnar. Tellingly, neither the Aesir nor the Vanir are said to emerge from this titanic outpouring of blood. It does, however, provide the means by which the Jötnar discovered Jotunheim. I think that this is the event people think of when they hear about Ymir's mystic lifeblood, because there's a very weird progression with his blood, it manifests before he does, and he is formed from it. I think the cookbook was saying that the Aesir and Vanir were formed from this mystic lifeblood which formed Ymir and emerged from Ymir's flesh, not that they were born alongside time when Ymir was stabbed.

This thread can be closed right? It has two staff disagrees.

Pepsimanslover_69 said:

This thread can be closed right? It has two staff disagrees.

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It need three actually, but sure, even if i think odin and surtr become spatial and temporal beings will not actually disqualified the cycle and yggdrasil from it aspatial and atemporal nature

Yeah, okay then. Closing.