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Bayonetta Low 1-C Summons/Other Characters Standard + More Justification for the High 6-A minimum + Resistances Additions

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Hi, as ive stated on a few threads before, I am going to be attempting to upgrade the general Low 1-C tiering for pretty much the rest of the Bayonetta pages (minus the Angels of Paradiso, Demons of Inferno, Joy and Base Luka). Their Speeds should also scale to Bayonetta and others as Infinite for the obvious 'not being blitzed' reason.

This includes:
All of Bayonettas Summons on this wiki thus far (Minus their sin forms which are already Low 1-C)
The Four Cardinal Virtues (These guys are bosses of the first game, and helped slaughter the Umbra Witches. These summons also work vice-versa to Bayonetta's summons, but for Balder and were shown directly being able to fight them.)
Loki (Part of Aesir's power)
Rosa (Can fight side-by-side with Bayonetta, regarded as the strongest witch of the Umbra Clan, a variant was capabale of matching Bayonetta in 3 etc.)
Base Rodin (Why isnt he already Low 1-C?)

Not 100% sure about:
Gracious and Glorious
Glamor
Insidious

1. Bayonetta derives her power from her Summons, and consistently uses them as her main heavy hitters
As we know, Umbra Witches create contracts with Infernal Demons for their power, and can summon them at any time. While Umbra Witches definitely have 'power' like that on their own, it is pretty much a given for a powerful witch to be able to summon an infernal demon as we know in Cereza and the Lost Demon. With this being said, why are the Demons capped at High 6-A? Which is insanely low compared to the Low 1-C's who actively use and rely on them in combat.

The main factor is her Contract with Madama Butterfly, whom is her main partner and summon, that "the demon would impart upon her enormous power and great wisdom." With this and the fact her Wicked Weaves are always the attacks that leave the most damage (which directly uses Madama's strength), then it should be obvious this is her level of power.

The weapons Bayonetta and Jeanne use also derive from their demons, and are their own main way of attacking, specifically the ones in Bayonetta 3. These weapons are even made of the demon's power such as Alruna or G-Pillar.

I personally think that Demons even have a higher damage output than standard Umbran Witches without their wicked weaves, as we note in difficulties like Infinite Climax where even the fodder angels/demons do a ton more damage to Bayonetta. She is primarily a fighter that focuses on dodging and not being hit, which is evident in the gameplay, and when she does get hit, we see she never really no-sells it without a problem. This is not to say she is not durable, or superior to her summons in general, but the fact that Inferal Demons are still a physical threat to her should definitely put them to this tier.

They work together, as we see in this Bayonetta 3 cutscene where Cereza suggests a more 'attentive approach' against Pannus when Madama Butterfly's own physical strength just allows them to duplicate. With this, Bayonetta is able to bypass their duplication easier to defeat them, and its because she does not have Madama's output that allows them to split outright.

New techniques such as Demon Slave and Demon Masquerade are also shown as inherit buffs to Bayonetta, which both rely on the power of her demons. Again, this wouldnt be the case if she was only calling on High 6-A levels of power, and its confirmed the Demons buff Bayonetta rather than the other way around.

2. Her Summons can hurt and defeat opponents on this level in this verse
Listing a few examples of this:

Click to expand...

3. Just because they have been one shot while summoned does not mean they dont scale.

The only real opposition i've seen that they don't scale is because of how easily we have seen Bayonetta's summons die in a single attack, to the likes of Balder, Balder again in Bayonetta 2, Aesir, Strider etc. Despite this, I don't think this at all disproves their level of powers being proportionate and instead just lesser to a small degree.
  • There are many cases of verses that scale their lesser demons/enemies to the high tiers of power, such as SMT, even though theres an obvious power gap, this just needs to be stated on the profile.
  • The Demons are only temporarily summoned, and even if they die while summoned in Purgatorio, they regenerate really quickly which can suggest they are not as strong while outside of Inferno. Their presence is also reliant of Bayonetta's magic, so if that at all keeps dwindling, then its likely the demon dwindles in power while being used by her.
  • They don't actually stay dead, and regenerate within Inferno. This is even seemingly the same as Paradiso and the Cardinal Virtues since we see Fortitudo again in Bayonetta 3 (and as we know, pure residents of Paradiso and Inferno (at least the ones that weren't originally human like Madama Butterfly) have no multiple variants). We should definitely rework and label their regenerative abilities too at some point.
And while putting the likes of Fortitudo or Gomorrah in the same tier range and the obvious god tiers like Sheba and Jubileus seems weird and goes against the hierarchy, as we get into these higher tiers, there can still obviously be a power gap within Low 1-C.


High 6-A minimum (Debunked)

In Cereza and the Lost Demon, the description for Affinity (the main fodder foot soldier angels in Bayonetta games):

"A common angel from the third sphere of the angel hierarchy, summoned by Púca.
Affinity are considered the closest existence to humans among the angels; their halo is said to be able to guide the misled when they descend from Paradiso. Though they are seated on the lowest sphere of the angel hierarchy, their strength still far exceeds human comprehension. An average person would likely be unable to so much as touch one. The divine weapons that these angels wield possess considerable power, able to shatter the earth's surface with a single strike.

This Affinity, however, is not an actual angel, but an illusion formed by piecing together the collective consciousness of past witches who entered Avalon. It is required to stay close to Púca in order to survive, but its strength is proportionate to that of a real Affinity. Púca has recently found great use for it in removing unwanted disturbances to his plans."

As per this wiki's Standard Reference for the common feat, this would be High 6-A, and thus make it the new minimum for the likes of Paradiso. The only thing that will lower than them in the verse are regular humans and fairies (with the exception likely being Lukaon)


Bayonetta's Resistance to Fate Manipulation/Existence Erasure

Given the whole ending of the game was Bayonetta going against Singularity's ability to alter Phenomena, and creating her own truth by literally outstripping his ability, then surely it should be stated on her profile? Idk how this was missed. Given she also came back from Singularity's Existence Erasure and doesnt die immediately to the clouds of erasure, i'd say we can also give her this

I only wanted to make this thread rather quickly so forgive lack of scans or detail, but imo it is wildly obvious that the things that Bayonetta derives her power from and relies upon the most should also fit into the Low 1-C criteria with her, or at least High 2-A if people really dont like matching them to other high tiers.

Resistance to Cosmic Radiation & Extreme Cold

Given shes survived in space multiple times, such as against Jubileus and Singularity
 
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I agree with just about everything here, especially the first point. It's nuts that the Summons are so insanely low when Bayonetta & all Witches in general explicitly draw their power from their Demons and must exert immense amounts of their own power in order to even be able to summon & control said demons freely, and before that, they have to forge both their bodies and souls into vessels capable of withstanding that power.
"The true root of their [The Umbra Witches] power was none other than their ability to take unbelievably strong demon energy and bend it to their will, using it freely. The witches' direct contact saw them reaching into the heart of Inferno's darkness and summoning the beasts that dwell there, drawing out their incredible magic and destructive powers."
"...it was thanks to these powers that the witches boasted such awesome force in battle." ~Notes on the Topic of Magic III

"In exchange for offering their soul to their contracted demon upon their death, witches are entrusted with incredible destructive powers. Witches with particularly impressive skills have the ability to push the limits of their magical powers and temporarily control their demon as if they were using their arms and legs." ~Leaders of the Umbra

"To gain the incredible power afforded to them, they were forced to trade their souls to the demons of Inferno." ~Notes on the Topic of Magic III

"...This training forged both the body and soul, honing each witch into a vessel capable of withstanding the rigors of the magical arts, and allowing one to begin to interact with other dwellers of the magical realm. This interaction with the world of spirits lies at the very core of magic." ~About the Umbra Witches II

"Bayonetta’s long hair is the source of her power, and she normally wears it around her body as a means of adornment and protection. However, once she enters battle, she can use her hair to summon incredibly powerful demons from hell. When she summons these Infernal Demons, she is using all of her power, so she has no time to control the hair wrapped around her body and thus she ends up in more 'comfortable' attire." ~ PlatinumGames Bayo 1 Blog

"Infernal Demons are summoned when Bayonetta uses her magical powers to their greatest potential, and we use their powerful attacks to obliterate Bayonetta’s enemies as the highlight of a scene." ~ PlatinumGames Bayo 1 Blog

"Crafted by the famed demon smith Rodin, these four guns have been crowned with the names Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, and Thyme. Pushing Bayonetta's magic to its limits, these guns' rate of fire and stopping power are incredible. They allow Bayonetta to maximize the potential of her magical powers, granting awesome attacks known as 'Wicked Weaves'. ~ Eyes of Bayonetta 1
I'm also glad you brought up the fact that the weapons in Bayo 3 contain the power of Bayo's Demons, as these weapons are used throughout this entire scene to deal significant damage to Singularity Balance to the point of making him reverse it with his powers. And in this same chapter, we are shown multiple times that Butterfly's fists, along with Styx's, are capable of harming Singularity. And on that note, Bayo merging with her Demons via drawing their power from their respective weapons grants her a significant increase to her physical stats, exponentially so according to Colour My World.

Something important to address though is that the Affinity scan from Lost Demon in Japanese states that a single strike from its weapon can shatter the ground as in the solid earth beneath your feet rather than the actual surface of the entire Planet Earth, so unfortunately, they aren't H6-A (as hilarious as it'd be).
 
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Something important to address though is that the Affinity scan from Lost Demon in Japanese states that a single strike from its weapon can shatter the ground as in the solid earth beneath your feet rather than the actual surface of the entire Planet Earth, so unfortunately, they aren't H6-A (as hilarious as it'd be).
RIP
Ah well, maybe Cereza and the Lost Demon has something else that can put its tamer power into perspective. Even though Jeanne (and the Left Eye) most certainly beat a weakened Singularity, and Morgana should probably scale to top Umbra Witches' powers (Even though somehow she never used Witch Time?)
 
Affinities shouldn't be too inferior to Infernal Demons like Hideous, whose counterpart is Acceptance, another Third Sphere Angel, and it is stated that the only ones capable of overpowering a Hideous are the Lumen Sages & Umbra Witches, and by extension anyone else with power comparable to or superior to the two clans. It's also said that an Affinity's power is still beyond any human's comprehension with a normal human being not being able to hope to do so much as even touch one, so there's still something there at least.

As far as Morgana goes, I think she should be solidly in the Tier 5 ranges considering that she created a dimension with a massive full moon inside of it with her own magic power, but maybe that part in particular would be something to talk more about in a future thread?
 
Wait, isn't Base Rodin comparable to Bayonetta since the first minutes of the first game?
Yeah, idk why this wiki thinks Rodin isnt Low 1-C off the bat when he's pretty much the games secret boss. Bro blocked Bayonetta's pissed off Madama punch effortlessly if we really need a feat to scale off, but otherwise bro is NOT Tier 6
As far as Morgana goes, I think she should be solidly in the Tier 5 ranges considering that she created a dimension with a massive full moon inside of it with her own magic power, but maybe that part in particular would be something to talk more about in a future thread?
Morgana is tricky cause shes still apparently an 'unrivalled witch', and if we're giving Rosa the benefit of being Tier 1 alongside them, she should be somewhat up there, BUT at the same time she doesn't know Witch Time and got bested by a young Umbra Witch and the demon who was just born.

The only way i think we can justify Low 1-C other than that for them (even though this is a stretch) is Jeanne defeating weakened Singularity
 
I almost forgot that Jeanne & Cheshire took out an extremely weakened Singularity Definition.. but I'd be reluctant to want to put Kid Jeanne, Cereza & newborn Cheshire in Tier 1 for that because lmao, but still, that feat's kinda hard to just ignore. Morgana could MAYBE be up there, yea, but it's a strong maybe. She may have surpassed many of the other witches, but Rosa is still regarded as being unparalleled in skill & the strongest person in the entire history of the clan despite this, and her daughter basically no-diffed Morgana as a child and forced her to exert the full extent of her power out of desperation, so it ain't looking too good for her there.

And although we don't see her use it, Morgana should definitely know Witch Time since she instantly recognized whenever Cereza was using it; we just don't see her use it in gameplay. But after all, Jeanne doesn't use Witch Time during the gameplay of the boss battles yet we know full well that she can, so this is very likely just a case of that.
 
I wouldnt say it was 'no-diff' but yh, pretty embarassing for her to just up and lose like that even when she was pulling out all the stops. Once this goes through then Cereza and The Lost Demon will deff have to be looked over for anything to scale them off, cause so far its just Affinity

Also bump
 
The Speeds should also all pretty much be Infinite based on the same scaling as the rest of the Low 1-Cs right?
 
The best scaling from Origins is gonna come from either Morgana or weakened Singularity at this point, although there definitely is plenty of interesting lore dropped in Origins that can be used for hax & whatnot too, but we'll get there when we get there.

And yea, Bayo & Balder's Summons, along with Angels & Demons like Joy, Insidious, etc, all need Infinite speed; the profiles are evidently outdated as hell on that front.
 
Added another Resistance to, in the form of Cosmic Radiation and Extreme Cold (given we've seen her fight in space before).
This would apply to most other characters im guessing, even infernal demons like Madama Butterfly
 
Resistance to Cosmic Radiation & Extreme Cold

Given shes survived in space multiple times, such as against Jubileus and Singularity
Just a heads up, we now just give Space Survival for feats like that. Especially since the extreme cold parts are explained in the page.

The rest look alright to me.
 
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