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Upgrading Lord of the Mysteries

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Robo432343 said:
i thought they're getting 1-A hax
Click to expand...
Original Creator is getting 1-A if we’re making a profile for him as all characteristics and authorities stem from him.

Pillars are also possibly 1-A as we’ve seen Adam create fake Authorities using the Chaos Sea and we’ve also seen Celestial Worthy shake the Astral World.

Mind you, Pillars are incomparably stronger than a Sequence 0 as all of them have universal range feats (MGOD affecting all femininity in the universe, CW shaking Astral Realm, Fourth Pillar being able to destroy the universe)
 
Super_Nova said:
Original Creator is getting 1-A if we’re making a profile for him as all characteristics and authorities stem from him.

Pillars are also possibly 1-A as we’ve seen Adam create fake Authorities using the Chaos Sea and we’ve also seen Celestial Worthy shake the Astral World.

Mind you, Pillars are incomparably stronger than a Sequence 0 as all of them have universal range feats (MGOD affecting all femininity in the universe, CW shaking Astral Realm, Fourth Pillar being able to destroy the universe)
Click to expand...
Do Sequence 0 not have 1-A range, but have 1-A potency?
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Have no issues with the Spirit World, Sefirah Castle, Painting Worlds, Astral World and Original Creator Tiers. The rest I'm neutral on.
Click to expand...
I believe we can move forward now based on whatever decision Ultima makes from my previous reply to him:
Based on what you've mentioned:
  • Original Creator: 1-A
  • Pillars: 1-A (Due to the Celestial Worthy's ability to shake the Astral World and God Almighty being named the ruler of the Astral World)
  • Great Old Ones: 1-A? (These entities are stronger than Gods but are not classified as Pillars)
  • True Gods / Sequence 0: Low 1-A or Low 1-C? (Considering their control over everything that stems from these essences, would you say Low 1-A is more appropriate?)
I think we can move forward with what you decide regarding this.
Click to expand...
Side note: This thread is becoming a bit cluttered, as some comments are revisiting topics that have already been discussed. It would be helpful if everyone could take a moment to read through the previous posts before adding their thoughts. (I'm not talking about you spaceman, you're good)

Also, should I add you to the "agree" counter?

Edit: I asked Spaceman if on his profile wall, if I could add him, and he said yes.
 
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I'm just seeing this now, and only does a quick ctrl+f over the blog, but if this is accepted do we scale Beyonder hax to Original creator because of godhood?
 
LazyDaoist said:
I'm just seeing this now, and only does a quick ctrl+f over the blog, but if this is accepted do we scale Beyonder hax to Original creator because of godhood?
Click to expand...
No. Not even S0s are getting 1-A. The hax are simply scaled to their actual feats.

Again, for the last time, only OC and Pillars are getting 1-A, with the latter being AP/hax only.
 
Super_Nova said:
No. Not even S0s are getting 1-A. The hax are simply scaled to their actual feats.

Again, for the last time, only OC and Pillars are getting 1-A, with the latter being AP/hax only.
Click to expand...
Eh, at least from the info we got Beyonder hax potency should scale to whatever the OC state of existence is at least, we know that Beyonder resist hax because of their godhood/divinity, we learn that every living being have godhood, so the reason "higher level Beyonder generally resist lower level hax just because of their level" should be because they have more godhood

we're told this through the Aurora Order philosophy (i forgot what chapter it is we're told this in the original and the wiki only reference CoI and i dont have the novel file with me right now)
"We all originate from Him, carrying the divine essence He bestowed upon us."

"Divinity exists within every living being, and no one is inherently more noble than another. We distinguish our status based on our proximity to our Lord and our ability to embrace His teachings."

"It is through our shared divinity that we can consume potions, face trials, and accumulate more divine power. Ultimately, we can become angels in service to my Lord…"

Is he preaching? Lumian couldn't help but feel that there were similarities between Mr. K's words and Madam Magician's story of the original Creator—the Oldest One—fragmenting and manifesting different Beyonder characteristics. They seemed to share a common essence.
Click to expand...
And Klein apotheosis
But the difference was that he didn’t fuse with the spirit world this time. Instead, he continued to extend, enveloping the entire planet, the entire spirit world, and part of the astral world like a gaseous body.

At that moment, Klein felt that he was in the bodies of different believers, in every human’s body, in every animal’s body, in every living thing.

Everything had godhood in them.

At the same time, he was still scattered within the fog of history, scattered through fleeting time, and scattered inside the silent flow of a river of light with multiple distributaries.

One was also Infinity.
Click to expand...
 
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LazyDaoist said:
Eh, at least from the info we got Beyonder hax potency should scale to whatever the OC state of existence is at least, we know that Beyonder resist hax because of their godhood/divinity, we learn that every living being have godhood, so the reason "higher level Beyonder generally resist lower level hax just because of their level" should be because they have more godhood

we're told this through the Aurora Order philosophy (i forgot what chapter it is we're told this in the original and the wiki only reference CoI and i dont have the novel file with me right now)

And Klein apotheosis
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This is why people need to read the CRT before commenting, it’s becoming redundant at this point having to re-state these points.

For the last time, the gist is that the powers stem from a 1-A source (Authority), but they only affect that which is below that source so Low 1-A (most likely just Low 1-C) and below. Pillars are 1-A because they can affect the literal Authorities themselves (like Adam creating some with the Chaos Sea or CW shaking the Astral World).
 
Super_Nova said:
This is why people need to read the CRT before commenting, it’s becoming redundant at this point having to re-state these points.

For the last time, the gist is that the powers stem from a 1-A source (Authority), but they only affect that which is below that source so Low 1-A (most likely just Low 1-C) and below. Pillars are 1-A because they can affect the literal Authorities themselves (like Adam creating some with the Chaos Sea or CW shaking the Astral World).
Click to expand...
Well yeah, sorry if it's already brought up, i just read that authority part, i think it's more correct to say the source of power is the Beyonder characteristic, Uniqueness, Sefirot, once they get to Uniqueness that are illusory abstract things that embody a concept, accommodating a Uniqueness is what makes the god equal to the embodiment of the concept(s) (from author previous novel this seems equal to illusory Great Dao, a source of the laws and principles), this is what contains the Authorities, which means a control over something (a domain) and over their Pathway(s) lower level Beyonders
 
LazyDaoist said:
Well yeah, sorry if it's already brought up, i just read that authority part, i think it's more correct to say the source of power is the Beyonder characteristic, Uniqueness, Sefirot, once they get to Uniqueness that are illusory abstract things that embody a concept, accommodating a Uniqueness is what makes the god equal to the embodiment of the concept(s) (from author previous novel this seems equal to illusory Great Dao, a source of the laws and principles), this is what contains the Authorities, which means a control over something (a domain) and over their Pathway(s) lower level Beyonders
Click to expand...
This topic has already been addressed. Beyonder characteristics and uniqueness are projections of the authorities within the Astral World. Please review the previous thread thoroughly, including all comments, to understand the discussion fully. The OC and the Astral World are ontologically equivalent, as explained earlier in the thread. I'd prefer not to reiterate everything, so a careful re-read would be appreciated. 🙏
 
LazyDaoist said:
Which is why consuming Beyonder characteristic and uniqueness they gain control of the part of the Authority within the Astral World?
Click to expand...
ya, this comment explains it:
Lycenum_lycopersicum said:
i will give concise rundown on how one climbs up to authority

The origin of LOTM universe is The Original Creator, the all-inclusive amalgamation of symbolisms and concepts.

Authorities,which are kind of his "body parts", is what this thread scales to 1-a based on its representation in the story exc

He is also the source of all Beyonder Characteristics - that is, the thing that gives superpowers to someone who consumed it

As pointed out previously in the thread, those characteristics themselves are just projections from the objects residing in Astral World

Beyonder Characteristics are grouped into hierarchial structures called "pathway" from sequence 9(lowest) to sequence 0. each pathway revolves around 1 authority

by consuming Beyonder Characteristics one assimilates and familiarizes oneself with the object in the Astral World that these Characteristics are projections of

There is entire process of this assimilation called 'acting method' in the story

So shortly it goes like this: one consumes Sequence 9 Characteristic, assimilates it, then sequence 8, sequence 7 exc till they consume 3 sequence 1 characteristics + uniqueness of the pathway to become sequence 0.. By the time one becomes sequence 0, one is enough 'assimilated' with the corresponding authority to use it.

it is important to note that there is no 'acting method' for sequence 0, so they use authority more like their hax rather than it being intrstic part of their existence

Gods can be killed by other Gods, however authority cannot be destroyed. Once God dies, authority is simply relinquished from his grasp
Click to expand...
 
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Sorry if im mistaken, that comments implies only True God (and above) have authorities and only one, from what i remember even Angels already have a certain amount of authorities (Arianna over Concealment), and Uniqueness spans authorities over multiple domains (Klein's Fate, History, Mind)
 
With regards to this, Klein spread his hands.

“I didn’t even look at my hole cards!” In between the lines, he meant that this was simply the blessings of some deity that controlled luck.

At the moment, the deities, angels, and secret existences who had authority in the fate domain included, but were not limited to, the Evernight Goddess, The Fool, Snake of Mercury Will Auceptin, Pallez Zoroast, Blasphemer Amon, and Snake of Fate Ouroboros.
Click to expand...
Upon writing this, Klein paused and added, “I suspect that the Mother Tree of Desire has the intention of encroaching onto the authority of the Moon domain, but I’m unsure why the Primordial Moon believers would join the Rose School of Thought. This secret existence seems to have a very complicated relationship with the Mother Tree of Desire. They are at odds, but they have also cooperated. It’s hard to tell…”
Click to expand...
Doesn’t this mean that, once one obtains the authorities of several domains, a deity’s level will also undergo a qualitative change?
Click to expand...
I just searched it, i meant something like this
 
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While we wait for Ultima to make a finalized decision and close this thread, I’ll take this opportunity to list the high-tier characters in Lord of the Mysteries. Currently, the only people with significant power who are listed on VSBW are Klein and Amon, while the rest are low-tier fodder, which may explain some of the downplaying.

I'll highlight the ones we're currently working on creating / editing profiles for. As for the others, we might get to them eventually, but for now, there are just too many.

Red = Making Profile
Green = Editing

Original Creator:​

  • The Oldest One

Pillars:​

  • Mother Goddess of Depravity
  • Celestial Worthy of Heaven and Earth
  • God Almighty
  • Ancient Sun God (qseudo)
  • Hidden Fourth Pillar

Current Known Great Old Ones (GOOs):​

  • Mother Tree of Desire
  • Son of Chaos
  • Primordial Hunger
  • Circle of Inevitability
  • Supernova Dominator
  • Inextinguishable Ravings
  • Monarch of Decay
  • High-Dimensional Overseer
  • Goddess of Fate (she may be either a Great Old One or an Outer God at Sequence 0, not fully certain)
  • Klein Moretti (half)
  • Adam (half)
  • Amon (previously half)

Past Great Old Ones:​

  • Key of Light
  • Demon of Knowledge
  • Goddess of Origin
  • Eternal Darkness
  • Calamity of Destruction
  • Father of Devils

Sequence 0 Gods:​

  • Demonic Wolf Flegrea
  • Phoenix Ancestor Gregrace
  • Dragon of Imagination Ankewelt
  • True Creator
  • Eternal Blazing Sun
  • Lord of Storms
  • God of Knowledge and Wisdom
  • Elf King Soniathrym
  • Evernight Goddess
  • Salinger
  • God of Combat
  • Giant King Aurmir
  • Primordial Demoness
  • Blood Emperor Alista Tudor (my goat)
  • God of Steam and Machinery
  • Earth Mother
  • Sanguine Ancestor Lilith
  • Black Emperor Solomon
  • Night Emperor Trunsoest
  • Hidden Sage (quasi Sequence 0)
  • Dark Side of the Universe
  • Roselle
I prob missed a few.

As for King of Angels, Archangels, Angels, Demi-gods, and below...​

I’ll leave that discussion for another time.
 
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Interviewer: Alright, onto the sixth question. In Book 2's third volume, during the Hostel incident, and in the fifth volume, during the Vortex incident, Beyonders from the Painter Pathway appeared in both instances. When designing the abilities of this pathway, which originates from the Outer God, the High-Dimensional Overseer (HDO), what was your inspiration?

Cuttlefish: Actually, back when I was naming the Outer Gods in Lord of the Mysteries Book 1, I already had a rough idea of how HDO's pathway abilities would manifest. So in Lord of the Mysteries Book 1, there were already some elements related to HDO, such as the painting of the Abraham family.

Interviewer: You mean the Scroll of God sealed artifact, right?

Cuttlefish: Yes, exactly. So when I was refining the sequences for HDO, I used three key concepts as the guideline for the low- and mid-sequence of the Painter Pathway: painting, imagination, and reality. The keyword “reality” comes from the idea that — from a higher dimension, the world can be perceived differently, it is a different form of "reality" — unlike how we can only perceive things in 2D or 3D. As the sequence progresses, especially after reaching the demigod level, the pathway abilities start to align more with string theory and the concept of dimensions.

Interviewer: So, when you first set it up, you started with the idea of "high-dimensional reality" and "paintings", and then as the sequence progressed, you had to consider the concept of dimensions, which led you to think about string theory, right?

Cuttlefish: Yes, I thought about string theory and dimensions at the same time, incorporating them into the pathway after the demigod level.
Click to expand...
More supporting evidence from new interview mentioning higher-dimensions in Circle of Inevitability

source by the way, should be from 8:57, though i don't actually speak chinese, i know enough to identify question 6 and 高维俯视者 High-Dimensional Overseer so it should be legit
 
Last edited:
LOTM_Historian said:
While we wait for Ultima to make a finalized decision and close this thread, I’ll take this opportunity to list the high-tier characters in Lord of the Mysteries. Currently, the only people with significant power who are listed on VSBW are Klein and Amon, while the rest are low-tier fodder, which may explain some of the downplaying.

I'll highlight the ones we're currently working on creating / editing profiles for. As for the others, we might get to them eventually, but for now, there are just too many.

Red = Making Profile
Green = Editing

Original Creator:​

  • The Oldest One

Pillars:​

  • Mother Goddess of Depravity
  • Celestial Worthy of Heaven and Earth
  • God Almighty
  • Ancient Sun God (qseudo)
  • Hidden Fourth Pillar

Current Known Great Old Ones (GOOs):​

  • Mother Tree of Desire
  • Son of Chaos
  • Primordial Hunger
  • Circle of Inevitability
  • Supernova Dominator
  • Inextinguishable Ravings
  • Monarch of Decay
  • High-Dimensional Overseer
  • Goddess of Fate (she may be either a Great Old One or an Outer God at Sequence 0, not fully certain)
  • Klein Moretti (half)
  • Adam (half)
  • Amon (previously half)

Past Great Old Ones:​

  • Key of Light
  • Demon of Knowledge
  • Goddess of Origin
  • Eternal Darkness
  • Calamity of Destruction
  • Father of Devils

Sequence 0 Gods:​

  • Demonic Wolf Flegrea
  • Phoenix Ancestor Gregrace
  • Dragon of Imagination Ankewelt
  • True Creator
  • Eternal Blazing Sun
  • Lord of Storms
  • God of Knowledge and Wisdom
  • Elf King Soniathrym
  • Evernight Goddess
  • Salinger
  • God of Combat
  • Giant King Aurmir
  • Primordial Demoness
  • Blood Emperor Alista Tudor (my goat)
  • God of Steam and Machinery
  • Earth Mother
  • Sanguine Ancestor Lilith
  • Black Emperor Solomon
  • Night Emperor Trunsoest
  • Hidden Sage (quasi Sequence 0)
  • Dark Side of the Universe
  • Roselle
I prob missed a few.

As for King of Angels, Archangels, Angels, Demi-gods, and below...​

I’ll leave that discussion for another time.
Click to expand...
i agree we should go with this and wait for ultima to finalize and close the CRT.

Based on what's been discussed :​
  • Original Creator: 1-A
  • Pillars: 1-A (Due to the Celestial Worthy's ability to shake the Astral World and God Almighty being named the ruler of the Astral World)
  • Great Old Ones: 1-A? (These entities are stronger than Gods but are not classified as Pillars)
  • True Gods / Sequence 0: Low 1-A or Low 1-C? (Considering their control over everything that stems from these essences, would you say Low 1-A is more appropriate?)
Click to expand...
I think we can move forward with what ultima decides regarding this.
 
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Bump

Specifically waiting for you @Ultima_Reality so we can lock this thread.

Since you agree that pillars (who have feats such as shaking the astral world) are 1-A, we need you to finalize where you place gods. Would it be L1-A or L1-C?
 
Last edited:
LOTM_Historian said:
I believe we can move forward now based on whatever decision Ultima makes from my previous reply to him:

Side note: This thread is becoming a bit cluttered, as some comments are revisiting topics that have already been discussed. It would be helpful if everyone could take a moment to read through the previous posts before adding their thoughts. (I'm not talking about you spaceman, you're good)

Also, should I add you to the "agree" counter?

Edit: I asked Spaceman if on his profile wall, if I could add him, and he said yes.
Click to expand...
Interesting thing to think about. Low 1-A (I suppose, arbitrarily far into Low 1-A, which is something that can only be approximately accounted for by the Tiering System, in the circumstance where the being with this power isn't 1-A in-and-of-themselves) is fine as a rating for their general abilities, I'd say. Where would Low 1-C come from, exactly?

Whether that scales to anyone physically, I leave to you all.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
Interesting thing to think about. Low 1-A (I suppose, arbitrarily far into Low 1-A, which is something that can only be approximately accounted for by the Tiering System, in the circumstance where the being with this power isn't 1-A in-and-of-themselves) is fine as a rating for their general abilities, I'd say. Where would Low 1-C come from, exactly?

Whether that scales to anyone physically, I leave to you all.
Click to expand...
Alright, let's proceed with L1-A. This thread is ready to be locked. As discussed earlier, Low 1-C would have been because of the Eternal Blazing Sun shaking Sefirah Castle, which we covered at the beginning of this thread.

In terms of physical, I don't believe anyone outside of the Original Creator reaches Tier 1 scaling.

Can we start to apply the changes?
 
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Ultima_Reality said:
Interesting thing to think about. Low 1-A (I suppose, arbitrarily far into Low 1-A, which is something that can only be approximately accounted for by the Tiering System, in the circumstance where the being with this power isn't 1-A in-and-of-themselves) is fine as a rating for their general abilities, I'd say. Where would Low 1-C come from, exactly?

Whether that scales to anyone physically, I leave to you all.
Click to expand...
Low-1C comes from feats like Ankewelt (a Sequence 0) creating a world with it’s very own Spirit World which we’ve already concluded contains higher spatial dimensions. This and a flurry of other supporting feats. + this is also heavily supported by the narrative.

Anyways, I’d argue that we should close this thread as it’s been going on for like 3 months and there hasn’t been any contention aside from the fact the characters themselves don’t physically scale to such points, which we’ve already concluded.

In the case we do close the thread, is it safe to assume we can start applying the changes?
 
Best to apply the changes while the thread is still open and close it down when all of that is finished.
 
LOTM_Historian said:
Alright, let's proceed with L1-A. This thread is ready to be locked. As discussed earlier, Low 1-C would have been because of the Eternal Blazing Sun shaking Sefirah Castle, which we covered at the beginning of this thread.

In terms of physical, I don't believe anyone outside of the Original Creator reaches Tier 1 scaling.

Can we start to apply the changes?
Click to expand...
yeah lets proceed with this.
 
LOTM_Historian said:
I have applied the changes: Klein's profile & Amon's profile

It looks like this thread is now complete.
Click to expand...
Tier 1 with Athletic Human speed is hilarious.

Anyway: You should probably note what Authorities are (The definitions of things, unconditioned by all their particulars, etc etc) and then clarify that Low 1-A is off of having control over everything that's sourced from the Authorities of space and time. Makes the justification clearer. (Noting the Authorities are above the concepts manifested in the normal world and also the R>F dream stuff doesn't hurt, either)

As for this:

Also, Sequence 0 Klein is stronger than Eternal Blazing Sun, who shook the space above the gray fog which is stated to be formed from all the history in the Spirit world, transcend the Spirit world, is infinitely higher than the Spirit world and is stated to be infinite in size
Click to expand...

Was this ever decided? I remember rejecting 6-D, at least.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
Tier 1 with Athletic Human speed is hilarious.
Click to expand...
😂
Ultima_Reality said:
Anyway: You should probably note what Authorities are (The definitions of things, unconditioned by all their particulars, etc etc) and then clarify that Low 1-A is off of having control over everything that's sourced from the Authorities of space and time. Makes the justification clearer. (Noting the Authorities are above the concepts manifested in the normal world and also the R>F dream stuff doesn't hurt, either)
Click to expand...
Alright

Ultima_Reality said:
As for this:



Was this ever decided? I remember rejecting 6-D, at least.
Click to expand...
Yes, as you said, we kept Sefirah Castle/the space above the gray fog at 5D. On the profiles, we've listed it as Low Complex Multiversal (5D), rather than Complex Multiversal (6D).
 
Ultima_Reality said:
Tier 1 with Athletic Human speed is hilarious.

Anyway: You should probably note what Authorities are (The definitions of things, unconditioned by all their particulars, etc etc) and then clarify that Low 1-A is off of having control over everything that's sourced from the Authorities of space and time. Makes the justification clearer. (Noting the Authorities are above the concepts manifested in the normal world and also the R>F dream stuff doesn't hurt, either)
Click to expand...
Right, the speed revisions are currently being made obviously.

Anyways, yeah, we could probably go more in-depth with Authorities. But the R>F stuff is only for Original Creator, who scales higher than the rest of the cast.

Ultima_Reality said:
Was this ever decided? I remember rejecting 6-D, at least.
Click to expand...
That’s a different feat you are talking about which is not being factored here. We aren’t aiming for 6D here, but just to show that Sefirah Castle scales at least to 5D, which is overall used as supporting evidence alongside the other feat presented for Low 1-C.
 
LOTM_Historian said:
Yes, as you said, we kept Sefirah Castle/the space above the gray fog at 5D. On the profiles, we've listed it as Low Complex Multiversal (5D), rather than Complex Multiversal (6D).
Click to expand...
Yeah, okay.

Super_Nova said:
Anyways, yeah, we could probably go more in-depth with Authorities. But the R>F stuff is only for Original Creator, who scales higher than the rest of the cast.
Click to expand...
I thought the Astral Plane was being argued to be on the same ontological level as the Original Creator?
 
Ultima_Reality said:
I thought the Astral Plane as being argued to be on the same ontological level as the Original Creator?
Click to expand...
Actually, you’re right here. Had a last minute brainfart. The Astral World contains all the authorities, while the Original Creator is the amalgamation of all these authorities.

So they are on the same ontological level, I just accidentally mistook the fact that all Authorities are derived from him to make a difference.
 
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Ultima_Reality said:
Anyway: You should probably note what Authorities are (The definitions of things, unconditioned by all their particulars, etc etc) and then clarify that Low 1-A is off of having control over everything that's sourced from the Authorities of space and time. Makes the justification clearer. (Noting the Authorities are above the concepts manifested in the normal world and also the R>F dream stuff doesn't hurt, either)
Click to expand...
We've created a more detailed page about Authorities covering everything you requested. I'll begin linking the Klein and Amon profiles to it.

Edit: I've finished linking the terms "Authorities" and "Authority" on the character pages to the explanation page. Also changed some wording to match the explanation page.

Edit 2: Are we finally done with this CRT? 😭
maxresdefault.jpg
 
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LOTM_Historian said:
We've created a more detailed page about Authorities covering everything you requested. I'll begin linking the Klein and Amon profiles to it.

Edit: I've finished linking the terms "Authorities" and "Authority" on the character pages to the explanation page. Also changed some wording to match the explanation page.

Edit 2: Are we finally done with this CRT? 😭
maxresdefault.jpg
Click to expand...
Btw, I edited Klein’s 1-A section to remove all the unnecessary text that is better explained in the Authorities page
 
Last edited:
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