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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

Rereading the Higuruma fight... and what the f*ck

Why the f&ck is Yuji able to block and react to Higuruma without cursed energy!?!? Also he's able to counter almost perfectly and even damage him. NGL cursed energy might be like a miniscule amp for Yuji
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
Rereading the Higuruma fight... and what the f*ck

Why the f&ck is Yuji able to block and react to Higuruma without cursed energy!?!? Also he's able to counter almost perfectly and even damage him. NGL cursed energy might be like a miniscule amp for Yuji
Click to expand...
Nah he's impressive to Choso with his control, it definitely amps him. And Yuji was made to physically strong by Kenjaku so that is why. Likely heavenly restriction
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
Rereading the Higuruma fight... and what the f*ck

Why the f&ck is Yuji able to block and react to Higuruma without cursed energy!?!? Also he's able to counter almost perfectly and even damage him. NGL cursed energy might be like a miniscule amp for Yuji
Click to expand...
It's almost like the guy thats been stated over and over to be really strong even without CE reinforcement is actually really strong even without CE reinforcement
 
Arkenis said:
Nah he's impressive to Choso with his control, it definitely amps him. And Yuji was made to physically strong by Kenjaku so that is why. Likely heavenly restriction
Click to expand...
Yeah but like, this is still in the culling game. Yuji isn't that crazy physically compared to grade 1 sorcerers, yet without cursed energy here in the culling game he can perfectly match and block ones. It makes little sense that his performance against a grade 1 is this good

Giannysmag said:
It's almost like the guy thats been stated over and over to be really strong even without CE reinforcement is actually really strong even without CE reinforcement
Click to expand...
He was never portrayed as THIS strong without cursed energy reinforcement, to be grade 1 sorcerer level without even amping himself with CE
 
Duedate8898 said:
Yorozu uses liquid metal because she's smarter than Mai and because she's better built for Cursed Energy. That's not really a knock against them being related since Mai is explicity a stunted sorcerer and Yorozu creates the liquid metal with her ct then manipulates it to further create constructs to cut down on the shit efficiency of construction.

And finally, we do see that pixel effect with Yorozu. In fact, we see it in a situation just like when Mai creates the SSK. When Yorozu creates Supreme Martial Solution for Sukuna.

19.jpg
Click to expand...
Kamutoke
 
Sir_sun_man said:
Higaruma took away all that CE, giving yuji a heavenly restriction for a bit, TRUST!
Click to expand...
lol. If they explained something like this, it would make more sense.

Also who the **** else does Yuji fight in the Culling Games? because this is definitely stronger than he is before without CE
 
Yuji's similar to Ichigo in that he was made/developed to become very strong by Kenjaku like Aizen did to Ichigo. I wouldn't be surprised if Yuji has heavenly restriction considering his curse energy levels are low, yet his physicals are high and Kenjaku basically says he adjusted his brain for strength as a vessel.

Kenjaku deadass was tryna make the ultimate sorcerer Heavenly restriction + strength as a vessel + ingesting Sukuna + being a descendent of Sukuna + being an mc + being chosen by the black flash god + being an Itadori (Ainu clan) + being a cursed womb object sibling.

Yuji was made to be HIM
 
Rereading:

Is this a supersonic feat for Kenjaku? Or does it mean that Kenjaku is subsonic but he can put all his CE to speed in short intervals, allowing him to move close to PB's speed in short intervals, but only reacting fully after PB moves several meters??

Also this one:


Because now that I think about it, this second interpretation maintains consistency with people being subsonic, as they can probably do this to react to say, bullets, but consistently while fighting h2h they're only ever moving subsonic which is why they get blitzed by someone who's combat speed is way faster into subsonic.

Thinking about it, this might be consistent with examples like Kamo. Maybe this isn't inconsistent panneling, but rather he can temporarily use CE to give himself nigh supersonic speeds, but it took him like several tens of meters to react to Cursed Spirit Naoya to activate it, maintaining him as a subsonic character:
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
Rereading:

Is this a supersonic feat for Kenjaku? Or does it mean that Kenjaku is subsonic but he can put all his CE to speed in short intervals, allowing him to move close to PB's speed in short intervals, but only reacting fully after PB moves several meters??

Also this one:


Because now that I think about it, this second interpretation maintains consistency with people being subsonic, as they can probably do this to react to say, bullets, but consistently while fighting h2h they're only ever moving subsonic which is why they get blitzed by someone who's combat speed is way faster into subsonic.

Thinking about it, this might be consistent with examples like Kamo. Maybe this isn't inconsistent panneling, but rather he can temporarily use CE to give himself nigh supersonic speeds, but it took him like several tens of meters to react to Cursed Spirit Naoya to activate it, maintaining him as a subsonic character:
Click to expand...

I believe both were calced to supersonic but one was rejected due to the perspective?
 
Arkenis said:
I believe both were calced to supersonic but one was rejected due to the perspective?
Click to expand...
I'm saying like worst case scenario, this could explain how he can dodge it at close range while being subsonic.

He just amps himself to temporarily nigh-PB speed while having subsonic combat speeds. Considering this, I probably downgrade my personal scaling of JJK characters' speeds to like superhuman+ to around 100 m/s subsonic combat speeds for the top tiers, with only people like Sukuna or Gojo reaching Supersonic speeds and Mach 3 Naoya as a god tier, which can only be tagged by his predictable straight-line, no maneuverability, low reactions and combat speed but high attack speed movement.

I'd say superhuman grade 1s is consistent with the .01 second delay shit, and consistent with the buds from Hanami being around 55 m/s using the .01s timeframe

In fact, I'd say it's possible mach 3 > Sukuna and Gojo's combat speed
 
NGL people might have to change me from big subsonic to big superhuman. I'd say superhuman is consistent even with the projection sorcery punch barrages being slow as f*ck, yet they're still relevant to even someone like "physically gifted" Maki

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hanami's Retrosonic Buds

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Consistent with those metas, and slower than I remembered. Feels bad but JJK was even slower than I thought the second time around. Bros' are just slow as f*ck
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
I'm saying like worst case scenario, this could explain how he can dodge it at close range while being subsonic.

He just amps himself to temporarily nigh-PB speed while having subsonic combat speeds. Considering this, I probably downgrade my personal scaling of JJK characters' speeds to like superhuman+ to around 100 m/s subsonic combat speeds for the top tiers, with only people like Sukuna or Gojo reaching Supersonic speeds and Mach 3 Naoya as a god tier, which can only be tagged by his predictable straight-line, no maneuverability, low reactions and combat speed but high attack speed movement.

I'd say superhuman grade 1s is consistent with the .01 second delay shit, and consistent with the buds from Hanami being around 55 m/s using the .01s timeframe

In fact, I'd say it's possible mach 3 > Sukuna and Gojo's combat speed
Click to expand...
Megumi will have to use Mahoraga against me
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
NGL people might have to change me from big subsonic to big superhuman. I'd say superhuman is consistent even with the projection sorcery punch barrages being slow as f*ck, yet they're still relevant to even someone like "physically gifted" Maki

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hanami's Retrosonic Buds

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Consistent with those metas, and slower than I remembered. Feels bad but JJK was even slower than I thought the second time around. Bros' are just slow as f*ck
Click to expand...
i hope you get banned from JJK discussion <3
 
Rosa said:
i hope you get banned from JJK discussion <3
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but I've reanalyzed the evidence and that's simply how it is

The reaction time for how long it took Kenjaku to react to PB is around like 30 m/s ish. Even if you chose mach 2 PB, you get below 100 m/s
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
NGL people might have to change me from big subsonic to big superhuman. I'd say superhuman is consistent even with the projection sorcery punch barrages being slow as f*ck, yet they're still relevant to even someone like "physically gifted" Maki

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hanami's Retrosonic Buds

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Consistent with those metas, and slower than I remembered. Feels bad but JJK was even slower than I thought the second time around. Bros' are just slow as f*ck
Click to expand...
The fact that in a few weeks you went from pushing the MHS meta to the superhuman meta is both kind off admirable and really funny
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
I'm saying like worst case scenario, this could explain how he can dodge it at close range while being subsonic.

He just amps himself to temporarily nigh-PB speed while having subsonic combat speeds. Considering this, I probably downgrade my personal scaling of JJK characters' speeds to like superhuman+ to around 100 m/s subsonic combat speeds for the top tiers, with only people like Sukuna or Gojo reaching Supersonic speeds and Mach 3 Naoya as a god tier, which can only be tagged by his predictable straight-line, no maneuverability, low reactions and combat speed but high attack speed movement.

I'd say superhuman grade 1s is consistent with the .01 second delay shit, and consistent with the buds from Hanami being around 55 m/s using the .01s timeframe

In fact, I'd say it's possible mach 3 > Sukuna and Gojo's combat speed
Click to expand...
Guacamolefletcher said:
NGL people might have to change me from big subsonic to big superhuman. I'd say superhuman is consistent even with the projection sorcery punch barrages being slow as f*ck, yet they're still relevant to even someone like "physically gifted" Maki

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hanami's Retrosonic Buds

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Consistent with those metas, and slower than I remembered. Feels bad but JJK was even slower than I thought the second time around. Bros' are just slow as f*ck
Click to expand...
jujutsu-kaisen-nanami-kento.gif
 
Giannysmag said:
The fact that in a few weeks you went from pushing the MHS meta to the superhuman meta is both kind off admirable and really funny
Click to expand...
trust me it's just bias. Eva only started reading JJK so he could debunk arguments, then he ended up liking it and was solid in his opinions of it for awhile, but then he got the Naoya scaling and just started glazing Naoya non-stop. Now he's just been on this rapid downward spiral for speed scaling where every time the conclusion is "and that's why Naoya is top tier and / or best in the verse for speed, and so far above everyone else!" It's nothing but agenda scaling, and it's obvious.
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
NGL people might have to change me from big subsonic to big superhuman. I'd say superhuman is consistent even with the projection sorcery punch barrages being slow as f*ck, yet they're still relevant to even someone like "physically gifted" Maki

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hanami's Retrosonic Buds

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Consistent with those metas, and slower than I remembered. Feels bad but JJK was even slower than I thought the second time around. Bros' are just slow as f*ck
Click to expand...
Subsonic to Supersonic I can take because I think Gege actually does try and be down to earth when giving numbers for anything. Even if I think they have a habit of showing stuff that pushes things above those speeds.

And while I don't really agree with you a lot of the time, I do think at the end of the day your logic and understanding of the series is evolving and solid from your point of view.

All of that said, just putting these characters around superhuman is absolute dogshit and nonsensical. I need you to explain this one
 
Rosa said:
trust me it's just bias. Eva only started reading JJK so he could debunk arguments, then he ended up liking it and was solid in his opinions of it for awhile, but then he got the Naoya scaling and just started glazing Naoya non-stop. Now he's just been on this rapid downward spiral for speed scaling where every time the conclusion is "and that's why Naoya is top tier and / or best in the verse for speed, and so far above everyone else!" It's nothing but agenda scaling, and it's obvious.
Click to expand...
I dont trust anyone who's main agenda is Nayoa
Sir_Marvulous said:
Sorcery fight tier translation
Click to expand...
Warlock Squabble
 
I just did a rough calc for this feat:

Naoya is punching at Maki. Each punch is happening in 1/24th of a second, and the entire move is moving from fully extending his arm to punch to bringing it back to his right shoulder, kinda like this


So somoene's wing span = their height, roughly.
Arm length and shoulder to shoulder length are all roughly 1/3 of wing span, so 1/3 of height roughly.

Naoya is about as tall as Choso, so 1.74 m height.

Assuming this is what he's doing, Naoya is roughly moving the green line here in 1/24th of a second, as that is what projection sorcery does:


So he's roughly moving his fist through 2/3 of his height. Sice it's an arc motion, **** it, lets highball it to 4/5ths of his height. That distance is crossed in exactly 1/24th of a second, so the math is:

Speed = (4/5 {percentage of his height each punch hypothetically moved} * 1.74 m) / (1/24) = 33.408 m/s

So being generous, eyeballing, we get Naoya's attack speed vs Maki here at 33.408 m/s, and this can't even be debated because we know that the timeframe is exactly 1/24th of a second.

TLDR: Naoya Zen'in saw it OK to attack Maki, who he already knew wiped out the rest of the Hei filled with capable semi-grade 1 to grade 1 sorcerers with generously Superhuman+ speeds.

That is just absurd, and consistent with other things in the series, like those Hanami retrosonic bud calcs. Also I'm not saying this should be everyone, but like your average grade 1 shouldn't break past 200 m/s considering this. It's my explanation @Duedate8898.

Also the idea would be that anytime anyone reacts to a supersonic attack, the thing is moving predictably in a straight line, and the preson who dodges or reacts to said supersonic attack is doing so from a distance, and temporarily uses reinforcement to amp their movement speed to be capable of dodging said object, while normally having attack speed and reactions far inferior, staying consistent with this terrible attack speed being relevant to grade 1s.

Like Kenjaku's feats of reacting to PB, they're from about 10 meters way. So the reaction time to react to that is around 343 / 10 or about 34 m/s reaction times, but that's still enough to temporarily amp oneself to near transonic movement speed in time to dodge, while just having those 34 m/s reaction and combat speeds. I concede this is very like theory-esque territory, and you could say the superhuman speeds shit is just outliers or something, but I'd say it's an OK personal offsite interpretation. As for the other feats, like Maki reacting to rubber bullets, the rubber bullets could be as slow as you want, and Gege said the feats were exaggerated anyways so we probably shouldn't drwa the most conclusions from this stuff.

Also stuff like Maki tagging mach 3 fits into this because once she knew the mach 3 speeds were coming at a straight line, super predictably, she could unleash an unusually fast punch since she knew the mach 3 speeds were coming and where they were coming, as to not say it's inconsistent panneling which is valid too.
 
Last edited:
Guacamolefletcher said:
I'm saying like worst case scenario, this could explain how he can dodge it at close range while being subsonic.

He just amps himself to temporarily nigh-PB speed while having subsonic combat speeds. Considering this, I probably downgrade my personal scaling of JJK characters' speeds to like superhuman+ to around 100 m/s subsonic combat speeds for the top tiers, with only people like Sukuna or Gojo reaching Supersonic speeds and Mach 3 Naoya as a god tier, which can only be tagged by his predictable straight-line, no maneuverability, low reactions and combat speed but high attack speed movement.

I'd say superhuman grade 1s is consistent with the .01 second delay shit, and consistent with the buds from Hanami being around 55 m/s using the .01s timeframe

In fact, I'd say it's possible mach 3 > Sukuna and Gojo's combat speed
Click to expand...
You gotta let this go dude
Gojo and Sukuna might not be ftl or mhs+, but they are definitely not below mach 3
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
I just did a rough calc for this feat:

Naoya is punching at Maki. Each punch is happening in 1/24th of a second, and the entire move is moving from fully extending his arm to punch to bringing it back to his right shoulder, kinda like this


So somoene's wing span = their height, roughly.
Arm length and shoulder to shoulder length are all roughly 1/3 of wing span, so 1/3 of height roughly.

Naoya is about as tall as Choso, so 1.74 m height.

Assuming this is what he's doing, Naoya is roughly moving the green line here in 1/24th of a second, as that is what projection sorcery does:


So he's roughly moving his fist through 2/3 of his height. Sice it's an arc motion, **** it, lets highball it to 4/5ths of his height. That distance is crossed in exactly 1/24th of a second, so the math is:

Speed = (4/5 {percentage of his height each punch hypothetically moved} * 1.74 m) / (1/24) = 33.408 m/s

So being generous, eyeballing, we get Naoya's attack speed vs Maki here at 33.408 m/s, and this can't even be debated because we know that the timeframe is exactly 1/24th of a second.

TLDR: Naoya Zen'in saw it OK to attack Maki, who he already knew wiped out the rest of the Hei filled with capable semi-grade 1 to grade 1 sorcerers with generously Superhuman+ speeds.

That is just absurd, and consistent with other things in the series, like those Hanami retrosonic bud calcs. Also I'm not saying this should be everyone, but like your average grade 1 shouldn't break past 200 m/s considering this. It's my explanation @Duedate8898.

Also the idea would be that anytime anyone reacts to a supersonic attack, the thing is moving predictably in a straight line, and the preson who dodges or reacts to said supersonic attack is doing so from a distance, and temporarily uses reinforcement to amp their movement speed to be capable of dodging said object, while normally having attack speed and reactions far inferior, staying consistent with this terrible attack speed being relevant to grade 1s.

Like Kenjaku's feats of reacting to PB, they're from about 10 meters way. So the reaction time to react to that is around 343 / 10 or about 34 m/s reaction times, but that's still enough to temporarily amp oneself to near transonic movement speed in time to dodge, while just having those 34 m/s reaction and combat speeds. I concede this is very like theory-esque territory, and you could say the superhuman speeds shit is just outliers or something, but I'd say it's an OK personal offsite interpretation. As for the other feats, like Maki reacting to rubber bullets, the rubber bullets could be as slow as you want, and Gege said the feats were exaggerated anyways so we probably shouldn't drwa the most conclusions from this stuff.

Also stuff like Maki tagging mach 3 fits into this because once she knew the mach 3 speeds were coming at a straight line, super predictably, she could unleash an unusually fast punch since she knew the mach 3 speeds were coming and where they were coming, as to not say it's inconsistent panneling which is valid too.
Click to expand...

xenopixels-geometry-defense-gdf.gif
 
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