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Spinoirr's High 6-A tournament: match three, round one; Megicula (Arnoldstone18) vs Bazz-B (That_moron2)

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As the page says, Sklaverei deconstructs Matter, Energy, and souls and turns them into pure Reishi for him to absorb. I think the misconception here is that you all are assuming it only works on Reishi, but that's not true, since it's supposed to work on Kishi too, aka regular matter. Plus, remember that souls in Bleach have like four different kinds of energy which Sklaverei can absorb and turn into pure Reishi for Quincy to take in.

Now, for the Power Null to affect Bazz-B, you all have to argue why it nulls Reishi, Reiryoku, Reiatsu, and the power inside a Konpaku, instead of just mana.
 
Bastolan27 said:
Now, for the Power Null to affect Bazz-B, you all have to argue why it nulls Reishi, Reiryoku, Reiatsu, and the power inside a Konpaku, instead of just mana.
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Again: Decaying world nulls and decays attacks, not just magic, is a curse, you don't have resistance to curse nor power nullification? Your attack decays and dissappears, working even of people with Mana skin who resist power null and Noelle who resist it even more with his valkyrie armor and it even works in saint stage users who are megicula's direct counter

Bastolan27 said:
As the page says, Sklaverei deconstructs Matter, Energy, and souls and turns them into pure Reishi for him to absorb
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And the explanation of this is when the Quincy is fighting in a world where EVERYTHING, is reishi? Even physical matter? Where is an example where he transforms a physical building that lacks any spiritual component?
 
Judging by the debater just reading arguments and liking them I guess he may not be interested in debating which is what I was waiting for tbh.

Edit: now I’m seeing his messages. I kinda typed this a while ago.



Based off what has been said I don’t believe mana can be converted to reishi given the fact that it can not be broken down to any level. It’s is a fundamental and metaphysical entity. Thus I don’t believe Bazz b is capable of turning everything and anything into reishi.
 
Kazuma_kuwabara said:
And the explanation of this is when the Quincy is fighting in a world where EVERYTHING, is reishi? Even physical matter? Where is an example where he transforms a physical building that lacks any spiritual component?
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Physical matter in Bleach have souls

Arnoldstone18 said:
Based off what has been said I don’t believe mana can be converted to reishi given the fact that it can not be broken down to any level. It’s is a fundamental and metaphysical entity.
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So is the soul and especially in Bleach.
 
That_moron2 said:
Physical matter in Bleach have souls


So is the soul and especially in Bleach.
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Good

Not in Black clover nor other verses, they are inmune to this, the power depends exclusively of both being in the Bleach Verse

Mind you, this works the same in reverse, other verses lacks Hollows antibodies for example so a Hollow is nocive to everyone who lacks resistance to what a Hollow can do
 
Kazuma_kuwabara said:
Not in Black clover nor other verses, they are inmune to this, the power depends exclusively of both being in the Bleach Verse

Mind you, this works the same in reverse, other verses lacks Hollows antibodies for example so a Hollow is nocive to everyone who lacks resistance to what a Hollow can do
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Then how do you want me to prove it can deconstruct physical matter? Regardless this doesn’t save Megicula’s soul from getting deconstructed.
 
The Letz Stil, aka the predecessor to the Vollständig and Sklaverei, was developed by the Quincies in the physical world for use in the physical world. The natural habitat of Quincies is the physical realm, not any spiritual realm. If the ability could only be used to its full extent in spiritual realms, it would be useless. Remember that the Letz Stil was developed over 1000 years ago, so the Quincies didn't have any conflicts with the Shinigami, nor did they plan to invade Soul Society while developing it. It was created to fight hollows in the physical world, as they also didn't have any dimensional travel abilities prior to Yhwach and his Sternritter.

The souls in matter have nothing to do with it, and were never implied to have anything to do with it. Only fullbringers can manipulate the soul in physical matter
 
That_moron2 said:
Regardless this doesn’t save Megicula’s soul from getting deconstructed.
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This I don't have any problem at all, but I guess he has to also absorb his physical body which is protected with Mana skin to be able to interact with the soul, I don't know
Bastolan27 said:
Quincy absorption works by transforming anything it absorbs into pure Reishi.
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speedster352 said:
Skalveri would absorb Megicula decaying world and her attack
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This is the NLF, because it has to surpass the effects of power nullification first and also survive if anything, the madness that comes from absorbing their corrupted mana

The corruption they already has shown resistance, but not to madness
 
Kazuma_kuwabara said:
And the explanation of this is when the Quincy is fighting in a world where EVERYTHING, is reishi? Even physical matter? Where is an example where he transforms a physical building that lacks any spiritual component?
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Is mana not spiritual?
 
Arkenis said:
Is mana not spiritual?
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It comes from the soul in the case of humans (Nothing was said about devils) but it is also found in nature itself

My complain is more about Bazz B absorbing something that has power null, and also that he is able to use that when inside the passive aura of said power null, the moment he tries to activate that is already decaying in the first place
 
Kazuma_kuwabara said:
This is the NLF,
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I don't see why. I'm just saying that it absorbs energy in general. It has absorbed all the different kinds of energy in Bleach, even though many of them are different from each other with different properties. If mana was conceptual in nature or something like that, then I would see why it would be NFL. But I'm only arguing for energy, matter, and souls.
Kazuma_kuwabara said:
because it has to surpass the effects of power nullification first and also survive if anything, the madness that comes from absorbing their corrupted mana
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Does madness manipulation fall into mind manipulation? If so, souls have resistance to it via two completely different feats. If not, then what I'm saying is that Sklaverei turns energy and matter into pure Reishi, much like it does with hollow Reiatsu thus it should not carry the corruption effect.

Regarding the power null, how does it work exactly? I read her profile, and from what I understood, she curses attacks. Can Sklaverei even be considered a cursable attack? It's just absorption; it doesn't have any physical or metaphysical form or existence. If you could clarify how it works exactly in this context, I would appreciate it.
 
Bastolan27 said:
Does madness manipulation fall into mind manipulation?
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The eternal debate , I don't remember, Arnold can clarify this
Bastolan27 said:
Can Sklaverei even be considered a cursable attack?
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Valkyrie armor is literally an armor and it was decayed, I think Valhalla from Rills which is a stat amp was also being decayed

Also, now that I remembered, it also decayed the stat amp of Lolopechka which was just water, it was not attacking Vanica (at this time it was Vanica who was fighting, Megicula appeared in her right side and the whole water vanished alongside Secre sealing attempt)

Edit: The absorption also has the weakness of the halo being able to be destroyed, that could be decayed but who knows
 
Kazuma_kuwabara said:
Edit: The absorption also has the weakness of the halo being able to be destroyed, that could be decayed but who knows
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Shit, I totally forgot about that.

Well, since that avenue is closed for now, I'm left to argue via the shadow (dimensional travel). Bazz-B could go to another world, which should stop the curses and also get him out of the decaying world. allowing him to possibly make a sneak attack if she drops decaying world or whatever.

bazz can also summon fodder to make a distraction
 
Bastolan27 said:
if she drops decaying world or whatever.

bazz can also summon fodder to make a distraction
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She never dropped in the manga and is passive because it seems that when she appears, the decaying is always active

And Megicula can summon high 6-A fodder too using steel and blood magic

The dimensional travel is fair and I never said anything about that, I would only argue how in character is because I don't remember anyone saying "goodbye, I will leave the fight and return in 20 minutes" in Bleach

Only one was Ulquiorra which was pseudo sealed, the rest just use the dimensional travel to escape fights for plot reasons

Edit: Also wait a minute because the whole "You can escape the effects via leaving the dimension" seems extremely weird when Megicula curses can still be active when she is in the underworld while Lolopechka is literally curse to death by her in the living world, and the two worlds are if anything connected like the soul society, hueco mundo and living world
 
Last edited:
Kazuma_kuwabara said:
The dimensional travel is fair and I never said anything about that, I would only argue how in character is because I don't remember anyone saying "goodbye, I will leave the fight and return in 20 minutes" in Bleach
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Hmm, if I had to argue for what faction it would be most in character, it would probably be the Quincy. Plus, if nothing he can do works, I could see him dipping or at least hiding in the shadows.

As for his other win conditions, one could probably be the medallion. Since Klub outside confirmed it's just an application of Sankt Altar, an ability which can steal even conceptual powers like Ichibe's, but for that, I would probably need to ask the Bleach supporters who have been here longer than me to know if it's accepted to work like that on the wiki. If it isn't, I would need to make a whole ass CRT. Also, I would need to consider how it would interact with negative mana. Aside from that, does she have NPI to interact with him in the first place? Even if she does, can she see through invisibility?

If none of that works, I give up for now.

Could one of you make a Ginjo vs. any Black Clover fighter match? The fighter in question would have to resist RC's hax and RC's Ap, plus Hollow's Corruption type 2.
 
Bastolan27 said:
Also, I would need to consider how it would interact with negative mana. Aside from that, does she have NPI to interact with him in the first place? Even if she does, can she see through invisibility?
Click to expand...
People in BC can see souls, Asta with her sword can interact with the soul (The sword is stated to be similar to arcane magic and arcane magic can be considered magic that comes from the underworld or with similar properties, Megicula comes from the underworld) , the grimoire is stated to be bound by the soul, mana comes from the soul (at least from the humans) etc because now I can't remember more examples and for now, I am done here
 
Megicula’s curse manipulation influence extends to souls btw. Considering she can manipulate and use souls she possesses.
 
Well, since Bazz has no win condition, and at best he would lose by leaving the fight altogether, then I vote for Megicula. I don't really know if someone else will argue for a Bazz win condition I cannot think of, but regardless, I think OP should count votes to see if there are enough to close this.

I may be a Bleach goon, but if we lose, we lose. Remember, other Bleach goons, we are not debating to win; we are debating to see who would truly win. So no dumb weird arguments like Bazz is relative to Yamma or some BS like that.
 
Bastolan27 said:
Well, since Bazz has no win condition, and at best he would lose by leaving the fight altogether, then I vote for Megicula. I don't really know if someone else will argue for a Bazz win condition I cannot think of, but regardless, I think OP should count votes to see if there are enough to close this.

I may be a Bleach goon, but if we lose, we lose. Remember, other Bleach goons, we are not debating to win; we are debating to see who would truly win. So no dumb weird arguments like Bazz is relative to Yamma or some BS like that.
Click to expand...
If the quincy was someone like as nodt, gremmy, or the one with antithesis, Megicula is ******* dead

But Bazz B? He SHOULD start with fire, megicula just curses him from the get go
 
Bastolan27 said:
Does madness manipulation fall into mind manipulation? If so, souls have resistance to it via two completely different feats. If not, then what I'm saying is that Sklaverei turns energy and matter into pure Reishi, much like it does with hollow Reiatsu thus it should not carry the corruption effect.
Click to expand...
The Specific Madness Manipulation Devils have is Type 2
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Which is treated by the wiki standards as Mind Manipulation that can be resisted if one has resistance to Mind Manipulation
2: Mind Manipulation: Users of this type rely upon directly interacting with the minds of their victims, utilizing various forms of mental attacks to drive them insane.

Click to expand...
 
Kazuma_kuwabara said:
Edit: Also wait a minute because the whole "You can escape the effects via leaving the dimension" seems extremely weird when Megicula curses can still be active when she is in the underworld while Lolopechka is literally curse to death by her in the living world, and the two worlds are if anything connected like the soul society, hueco mundo and living world
Click to expand...

Oh Megicula cursed Lolopechka in the living world not underworld that’s why her influence remains in both worlds. She doesn’t have to be present as long as she leaves her mark.
 
The only possible win condition I could ever think of for Bazz B would be if the medallion gets accepted as a mini Sankt Altar in the wiki, but that's a whole argument (CRT) to make and I'm lazy.
 
Why would powernull work on bazz again he doesn’t use magic? Kido is magic in bleach and bazz doesn’t use it.
 
speedster352 said:
Why would powernull work on bazz again he doesn’t use magic? Kido is magic in bleach and bazz doesn’t use it.
Click to expand...
I know Kido are called spells but isn't magic in bleach like it's own thing considering how Burn the Witch is part of the same wider verse and they use magic
 
speedster352 said:
Why would powernull work on bazz again he doesn’t use magic? Kido is magic in bleach and bazz doesn’t use it.
Click to expand...
Read the thread, I am not explaining again how the curse weakens attacks and not just magic itself by the definition of how the curse works
 
Speedster, for the last time, it's not limited to magic.

Decaying World works on Mana and Mana entities like Spirits. Iirc she even destroyed Noelle clothes with it, regardless, it's not magic limited.
 
Kazuma_kuwabara said:
If the quincy was someone like as nodt, gremmy, or the one with antithesis, Megicula is ******* dead

But Bazz B? He SHOULD start with fire, megicula just curses him from the get go
Click to expand...
if only my secondary pick of Äs Nödt got picked,wonder how Askin would have done too.
Anyway seems like it's Bazzover so i vote for Megicula.
Also on dimensional travel i don't think it's that in character to Bazz-B in particular of the Sterntitter.
 
Bro, stop arguing in favor of Bazz. He lost. There's no way to spin this back; he's a weak Sternritter with no good hax. Shame on him.
 
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