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2-B to 2-A Forcefields for Base Digitized Knuckles/Amy/Tails

Yes it is perfectly fair, specially considering that his plan involved him taking out sonic and shadow first, if he conquered the world, then no one would be able to loom for them
Ignoring that plenty of other characters can use the Chaos Emeralds.
Also, again, you seeing things this way really doesn't matter for the way Eggman saw it, specially when it is made clear what he is referencing there
Him saying the hax was powerful does not mean it’s the only reason he sought after it, especially when the Ruby is way above Low 2-C.
That is what we call a character flaw, he has no reason, but he still is, arguing what you found logical doesn't matter for Eggman's character
This is after Eggman had already gotten his hands on a power superior to the Chaos Emeralds, and still lost, him being overconfident makes no sense. He is still a 300 IQ genius, he can have basic common sense.
Hax, hax makes strenght irrelevant as it is noted in our page for it
Hax would not stop Infinite from being destroyed by Super Sonic if he was just a Low 2-C, plus the Precioustone is referenced in the Forces era so it was clearly on the developer’s minds to some extent when making comparisons with the Ruby’s power.
Non sequitur, the ruby being focused by eggman on hax doesn't mean that it also doesn't boost power
Yes, it boosts power, that’s what I’m trying to say. And the fact that it boosts power, combined with Eggman saying the ME was unnecessary with the Ruby, indicates that the Ruby is not completely outclassed in power by the ME.
energy shield = hax, sonic as a verse doesn't even have an energy all characters have like dragon ball, tell me, what "energy" are they giving here exactly? And would this "energy" be am UES for it to scale to them physically? More over, wouldn't this "energy" only apply to the special form they were in instead of their normal selves?
Their special forms are weaker and corrupted compared to their base forms, they were power nulled to some extent, it doesn't make sense for them to have better stats. And an energy barrier being hax is something that doesn’t apply to almost any other verse.
One has nothing to do with the other, i will not even bother to say anything more on this baseless comparison
How is it baseless, there is a direct parallel between the End refueling Supreme and the characters repairing Sage’s shield.
I want you to prove all that you have just said, that it is an UES, that it is what she is using to make the shield, that it is the energy she uses to attack
Sage is never established as using separate energy reserves for attacking and defending, all of her abilities and attacks use the same red cyber energy, it’s just logical they use the same energy source.
As above, prove this, because right now, you are guessing and not showing evidence
I think you need to prove they are separate energy systems, because nothing in the game indicates they are. Sage doesn’t say “oh I’m pulling from my defensive or offensive energy right now.”

For the Void point, me saying Sonic harmed an enemy was referring to Infinite, who Sonic physically matched, and Infinite having the hype statements putting him above Void.
You said it yourself, that is scaling and not a feat of his own, besides, the dream of the ancients as universes exist in MW, we don't accept currently as both being the same, this mucj was said by shake and me when we made the conceptual thread
That doesn’t make sense, dreams don’t have to exist in Maginaryworld to be real worlds as shown by Sleeping Egg, and Cyberspace is a world that physically creates new terrain based on memories and dreams, so there is just as much reason for the Ancient dreams to be real worlds within Cyberspace.
Unless all of those "world" are universes, this is low 2-C, as the page currently accepts it
Night Palace’s astral plane should absolutely be a universe, it has a universal cosmology when Sonic transitions into the world through the purple portals, said portals coming from a corridor referred to as infinite in the strategy guide.
Can you at least try to use anything but assumptions? Prove this number of shatterverses, all we know currently is of 5, so it is 5, anything demands you to show proof.
I admittedly can’t prove it just yet. But the idea there is countless amounts of matter in the Sonic universe, and that led to a multiverse from a single universe, makes it possible the multiverse in this context is countless.
Strawman, i haven't said they didn't, they did, however you are arguing that they contributed in a way that would scale to them in AP, which is what you need to prove
The characters are applying their own power to the shield to repair it and keep it active against multiple Supreme attacks, making something more durable and having that durability hold up against multiple attacks isn’t a hax, it’s just transferring your power to something else.
Or they just made their own shield to overlap and aid sage, you know, the SIMPLER ANSWER?
If they made a shield that could keep up with Sage’s, that’s also a durability feat for them, even though we’re not given any indication of that. All we see is the existing shield being repaired and strengthened by the presence of these other characters.
and what "energy" would that be? And why would it scale to them physically?
Some kind of cyber energy, at the very least their cyber power was comparable to Sage’s normal power, which applies to the non-cyberspace world.
Again a worthless comparison, now you need to prove that they are refiling in the same way
The health of the shield is boosted back to maximum in the same way the health of Supreme is pushed back to the maximum, there’s no difference from what can be gleaned by gameplay.
Besides, you keep ignoring this

FRONTIERS SHOWS THAT THE GAP BETWEEN SUPER AND BASE FORMS STAYS THE SAME AS THEY GROW IN POWER, SO A SUPER FORM WOULD STILL BE INFINITIES STRONGER THAN ANY BASE CHAR, so the only way for them to block an attack from someone like that is of they SCALE DIRECTLY
And? The story doesn’t care if Super Sonic is infinitely stronger, otherwise Sage should not be holding up this barrier to block The End at all, the story is establishing that Sage and the other Base characters can stand up to The End to some capacity, presumably through friendship or willpower, so they downscale.
You are scaling him above the ME, aka FAR ABOVE any super sonic tiers up until now
I never said he scales above the Master Emerald, I said Infinite is powerful enough that the Master Emerald is not needed when considering the Ruby’s combination of power and hax, which wouldn’t make sense if the ME was infinitely stronger. Being in the ballpark of the ME would make Infinite the strongest enemy of Sonic, if going with the interpretation he’s flat out the strongest.
 
You are scaling him above the ME, aka FAR ABOVE any super sonic tiers up until now
The phantom ruby is directly compared to the master emerald so it should have comparable power to it. I recall a statement implying that the master emerald is the only thing that could stop the chaos emeralds in a tailstube but I’d have to find it. The master emerald >= phantom ruby > precioustone is logical.
 
I'm going to disagree with this upgrade as well on the basis of it being a horrible outlier. Low 2-C Base cast has much more consistency than anything above it, yet was still a matter that had to be refined over the course of several years and even more attempts. But even that is already pushing the limits of what Sonic and the cast should reasonably scale to. I commend the well-structured arguments in the OP.

However, I suppose I do agree with 2-B/A Forcefield creation on the basis that noted to only be in their digitized states.
 
I'm going to disagree with this upgrade as well on the basis of it being a horrible outlier. Low 2-C Base cast has much more consistency than anything above it, yet was still a matter that had to be refined over the course of several years and even more attempts. But even that is already pushing the limits of what Sonic and the cast should reasonably scale to. I commend the well-structured arguments in the OP.

However, I suppose I do agree with 2-B/A Forcefield creation on the basis that noted to only be in their digitized states.
This is why this thing could’ve waited until I made the Arabian nights revision (with the arguments that I wanted to review).
 
I'm going to disagree with this upgrade as well on the basis of it being a horrible outlier. Low 2-C Base cast has much more consistency than anything above it, yet was still a matter that had to be refined over the course of several years and even more attempts. But even that is already pushing the limits of what Sonic and the cast should reasonably scale to. I commend the well-structured arguments in the OP.

However, I suppose I do agree with 2-B/A Forcefield creation on the basis that noted to only be in their digitized states.
What is the basis for not being an outlier? Sonic’s universe is possibly 2-B due to containing countless matter and allowing for a multiverse with multiple distinct spaces, and Sonic tanked an explosion that shattered it. He scales to the Chaos Emeralds, which were used to create another 2-B multiverse based on the number of Ancients who had their dreams placed within. He scales to Infinite, who by statements has potential to scale above another 2-B to 2-A character. He scales to his friends, which stabilized a 2-B to 2-A forcefield and strengthened it with their combined energy. He scales to Erazor, who absorbed half the power of a dimension whose size dwarfs an astral plane universe and infinite corridor contained in Night Palace and contains multiple separate worlds, with NP being the smallest.
 
What is the basis for not being an outlier? Sonic’s universe is possibly 2-B due to containing countless matter and allowing for a multiverse with multiple distinct spaces, and Sonic tanked an explosion that shattered it. He scales to the Chaos Emeralds, which were used to create another 2-B multiverse based on the number of Ancients who had their dreams placed within. He scales to Infinite, who by statements has potential to scale above another 2-B to 2-A character. He scales to his friends, which stabilized a 2-B to 2-A forcefield and strengthened it with their combined energy. He scales to Erazor, who absorbed half the power of a dimension whose size dwarfs an astral plane universe and infinite corridor contained in Night Palace and contains multiple separate worlds, with NP being the smallest.
Dude. This is why I said to let me make the Arabian nights revision, you can add your takes on it there. Just close the thread and make another one after the revision is done (if that’s needed). The problem that people have is that they think 2-B/A Sonic is an outlier for the base cast so we need to go to the base and explain why that’s not the case in detail with scans in another thread. This is going nowhere and I think you can see that. Just trust me.
 
The Forcefields are probably fine given that’s literally their only showing, though it’d only apply to durability much like with Sage and only in their digitized states
 
Dude. This is why I said to let me make the Arabian nights revision, you can add your takes on it there. Just close the thread and make another one after the revision is done (if that’s needed). The problem that people have is that they think 2-B/A Sonic is an outlier for the base cast so we need to go to the base and explain why that’s not the case in detail with scans in another thread. This is going nowhere and I think you can see that. Just trust me.
Alright, sure, someone close this.
 
There’s another one?! You guys have to communicate more on this.
 
Sonic gets a Low 2-C upgrade and now everyone and their mothers want to wank Sonic to the highest possible value.
Like, I can buy Low 2-C (Though I do think that idea is made harder to justify by Classic/Adventure Super Sonic having 2-B/2-A ends). This is straight up absurdism of the highest value.
 
@ShakeResounding @Theuser789 @omegabronic @DarkDragonMedeus @Maverick_Zero_X @The_Smashor @CloverDragon03 Is it acceptable to add digitized keys for Knuckles and Amy and Tails to give them 2-B/2-A durability with forcefield creation?
An entire key for a single ability that was done by empowering Sage? Heck no.

The three together empowering Sage is likely what allowed it, given similar empowerment is what enabled Super Sonic 2 and the like. They likely cannot make the forcefields on their own, and it's likely none of them individually can empower someone else to make forcefields that strong.
 
But they aren’t empowering Sage, they’re making their own contributions to the barrier. And no, Super Sonic 2 doesn’t require any contributions from other characters, that was all Sonic and his mastery of cyber stuff.

And even if they as individuals can’t do it, they still contributed equal amounts to make it work, and 2-B/3 is still 2-B.

Plus I just didn’t give enough sources here, when Busy’s Arabian Nights thread happens and if it pans out I’ll try again and incorporate more evidence (and probably remove the Infinite statement)
 
An entire key for a single ability that was done by empowering Sage? Heck no.

The three together empowering Sage is likely what allowed it, given similar empowerment is what enabled Super Sonic 2 and the like. They likely cannot make the forcefields on their own, and it's likely none of them individually can empower someone else to make forcefields that strong.
Where is it stated that they empowered Sage? There is no such statement brody.
 
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