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2-B to 2-A Forcefields for Base Digitized Knuckles/Amy/Tails
- Thread starter JJSliderman
- Start date
SonicBayo1999
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But seriously I disagree 100% with this upgrade. This is freaking ridiculous as all hell.
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Never.
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- Thread starter
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I dunno how it’s that ridiculous, Void’s ability to destroy Maginaryworld is clearly stated, Infinite being the strongest enemy is on his profile, and Sonic beat him. But okay.
Fezzih_007
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I know right, 2-A base Sonic is very bizzare. It seems a thing i would hear from Mightofgebura
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5D hax with Emeralds and super forms then?
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He has 5d fate hax and upto 5d dura in base
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I meant game Sonic XD
Fezzih_007
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The problem is you can't prove that statement includes Void. And is also inconsistêncy with the rest of Sonic showings.
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I agree with the post.
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Disagree for Omega’s reasons.
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I don’t know dude, it’s stated by Ian that Infinite was the strongest opponent base Sonic had faced, Eitaro Toyoda states Eggman had deemed Infinite his masterpiece and this is consistent with in game statements.
Fezzih_007
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Did Ian said that? I don't remember now.
And Eggman really don't matter here, since he din't create Void, so him saying Infinite is his masterpiece don't really scale to void.
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It was some time ago but he did agree that Infinite was base Sonic’s strongest foe https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...165048967765&usg=AOvVaw23ZemIM0hfWIy3Y-dZlTZ-
Ok, but you are aware that the likes of Egg Wizard and Egg Salamander (which can handle Super level attacks) are works of Eggman?
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- Thread starter
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If the statement was meant to represent just things Eggman was responsible for, it would have said something like “Eggman’s strongest plan yet” or something, instead of just the strongest enemy in general.
And honestly it’s fairly consistent, Sonic grew from tier 4 to tier 2 with his development.
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I agree. Anyway imma see y’all later.
Fezzih_007
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For advertising purpose, saying he is the strongest enemy Sonic fought is way better and straight to the point. And i don't think in phrase you can advertising Infinity as being stronger than all Eggman creations. Like "The strongest Eggman creation" is wrong due Infinity not being his creation.
Hmmmmm, ok i gonna hold off in answering this. I mean, Egg Wizard is not really a invention of only Eggman, is also Eggman Nega so don't really count. And Egg Salamander is Low 2-C.
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OK.For advertising purpose, saying he is the strongest enemy Sonic fought is way better and straight to the point. And i don't think in phrase you can advertising Infinity as being stronger than all Eggman creations. Like "The strongest Eggman creation" is wrong due Infinity not being his creation.
I mean, Egg Wizard is not really an invention of only Eggman, is also Eggman Nega so don't really count. And Egg Salamander is Low 2-C.
It is his invention as well as Eggman Nega’s invention, they collaborated to make that. I ought to tackle that some time.
Fezzih_007
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But like, If he is refering to infinity as his masterpiece, that should include just his inventions alone, not the ones he makes togheter with someone. So like, is ambiguious If It includes Egg Wizard.
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That’s a fair point but I don’t think it just refers to only his inventions but every work that he has put against Sonic. He also called Infinite an invincible instrument of destruction which can be interpreted as his previous attempts against Sonic not being up to par compared to him. Infinite despite having Eggman’s data in his overclocked ruby said it was unrivaled and Eggman went as far as to say that with the overclocked ruby that he has become the ultimate form.
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I disagree via Omega's reasons.
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- Thread starter
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Omega didn’t really respond to anything of what I said about his reasons. And his reasons are things regarding the PR’s rating (which can work in favor of 2-A as well as Low 2-C), it being inconsistent (which isn’t really true since this is very late in the Sonic timeline after Sonic had grown considerably stronger than when he first got Low 2-C and there’s even points in favor of 2-A Base in Frontiers), or how Super and Base would be the same power level (which isn’t true, Super would still be stronger via its showings compared to base).
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do you have proof of Phantom King being 2-B/A? because that is what you are claiming
1 statement is not enough to call it "consistent", to jump from low 2-C to 2-B/A is a really extraordinary claim, one statement without any showing is not what i would call "enough"
the frontiers example is you litterally scaling them to an amped Super Form directly, you are scaling them to the same power as of frontiers, which as i have explained doesn't work at all
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Dear lord no. How on earth have we gotten to this point?!
Let's start with Void. It's barely a direct fight. Void mainly attacks by dropping rocks, and is damaged by pressing buttons in the arena. Sure, Void uses some lasers and shockwaves, but it's mainly falling rocks. And Sonic cannot damage Void, he has to use the buttons.
As for the Phantom Ruby stuff, that's contradicted by the fact that Sonic needed to use his Super Form to fight the full power Phantom Ruby. Sonic uses his Super Form to battle threats his base form can't defeat, and this would be Sonic directly scaling to his Super Form. Not even downscaling, it would imply the only difference between base and Super Sonic is flight and a change in hair color, since it is literally DIRECTLY scaling Sonic to a Super Sonic level threat; no ands, ifs or buts.
This level of utter absurdity is what people think this website is, not what we actually are.
Frankly, I think that 2-A Classic Super Sonic against Time Eater is an outlier, but that's something for another day.
Let's start with Void. It's barely a direct fight. Void mainly attacks by dropping rocks, and is damaged by pressing buttons in the arena. Sure, Void uses some lasers and shockwaves, but it's mainly falling rocks. And Sonic cannot damage Void, he has to use the buttons.
As for the Phantom Ruby stuff, that's contradicted by the fact that Sonic needed to use his Super Form to fight the full power Phantom Ruby. Sonic uses his Super Form to battle threats his base form can't defeat, and this would be Sonic directly scaling to his Super Form. Not even downscaling, it would imply the only difference between base and Super Sonic is flight and a change in hair color, since it is literally DIRECTLY scaling Sonic to a Super Sonic level threat; no ands, ifs or buts.
This level of utter absurdity is what people think this website is, not what we actually are.
Frankly, I think that 2-A Classic Super Sonic against Time Eater is an outlier, but that's something for another day.
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- Thread starter
- #69
Phantom King is powered by the Phantom Ruby, Phantom Ruby is stated by someone who knows the power of the Master Emerald as a relic with essentially the capability to replace the Master Emerald in his plans, Master Emerald is 2B-2A.
The statement combined with base characters contributing to creating a barrier that downscales 2B-2A characters, in the mainline titles at the farthest end of the timeline currently. (Aka the characters at their strongest)
If it doesn’t work, why is Sage being scaled to them, a character who is compared to base forms as well.
If you read the first part of the OP you’d know that fight is not my basis. I flat out said rings allowed for no scaling to occur there. This is purely regarding Infinite and his hype statements of power, which allow him to scale above Void, and who Sonic does harm.
And yet Base Sonic is scaled above the super Egg Robot, a super Sonic level threat. And no, Sonic is not directly scaling, he needs help from Classic Sonic and the Rookie to win, so Super is still stronger in this instance.
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Super Egg Robot is not a Super Sonic level threat. Not yet on this website, and never if I have any say in it.
Like, Sonic briefly not instantly dying to Super Sonic level threats is not a basis for scaling if you're using that.
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Phantom King is utilizing a power that can rival the Master Emerald and can harm Classic Super Sonic, who couldn't be harmed by Time Eater who's 2-B/A on this site.
It's irrelevant to this thread but I am working on something with the Arabian nights (which puts Erazor at 2-C and possibly up) if that somehow goes through then that would be a total of three times Sonic has jumped from low 2-C to higher tiers in base.
I won't comment on that.
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Super Egg Robot
The Super Egg Robot (スーパーエッグロボ Sūpāeggurobo) is a mecha piloted by Dr. Eggman, acting as the final boss within The Moon Zone and facing off against Adventure Super Sonic.[2] Tier: Low 2-C Name: Super Egg Robot Origin: Sonic the Hedgehog (Sonic Advance) Age: Unknown Classification: Mecha...
vsbattles.fandom.com
“Can stagger and briefly restrain Super Sonic”
It’s not brief, in the Frontiers case the combined energy of Amy/Knuckles/Tails was able to make Sage’s forcefield block multiple direct hits from Supreme’s arms
Fezzih_007
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Do you have prove that the statement is taking Void into account?
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Void is a character that Sonic has fought, can deal damage to Sonic, can kill Sonic, acted to destroy an entire multiverse, and is the final boss of a game, along with the statement making no clarifications on what types of enemies it was referring to. I think there’s enough reason to class Void under the umbrella of enemies Sonic has fought, and while Ian is unreliable, even he basically said the same thing, that Infinite is the strongest base Sonic opponent.
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as i have explained, the context of the word "power" Eggman used there was in mention of "super power"/"ability"/"hax" as that is the "power" he was refering to, the one he used moments prior and was bosting about, besides, something more powerful than the master emerald being stoped by the chaos emeralds? even tho the master emerald is powerful enough to make the refular emeralds become super emeralds? sorry, but no, that doesn't make sense either way
my dude, the gap between the super forms and base forms stay the same as they grow, the difference between both base forms and super forms would still be of several infinities, you can't "downscale" that, as the power of several infinties lower wouldn't help in anything, besides, how do you know that they put their own power there to power up the shield instead of, you know, the shield itself being naturally this strong? you saying that they even "contributed with their own AP/Power" there is another assumption based on nothing
very simple, she isn't, she has a shield that is that strong, that's it, she herself is not being scaled to them at all
as i have also said, Sonic never harmed Void directly, he only ever used enviromental stuff to harm him instead of his own power, besides, scaling adventure era to 2-B/A is the biggest no you could ever receive
because they have consistent low 2-C feats themselves to support this, also because low 2-C is super forms at their weakest, so they would still be far more powerful than any base char
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Without sufficient power hax is usually not going to be enough to win. Besides, even if the PR was pure hax, that doesn’t really negate the benefit of the Master Emerald, since it would be more powerful to a significant degree. The only way the PR would be able to fully replace the ME in Eggman’s mind would be if it had not only good abilities, but also a power stock comparable to the Master Emerald, even if it isn’t quite as powerful.
Because the shield was cracking and Sage was unable to keep it up without the aid of the other characters, their contribution is what enabled it to remain active against multiple Supreme attacks. And fact is, considering Sage is already accepted to downscale Supreme with just her base powers; I don’t understand the pushback here.
The shield she made with her own energy, which she also uses to attack with.
And I keep TELLING you, that’s not what I’m doing. The reason I brought up the Void fight at all was just to show Sonic had fought it in base. That’s it.
And a lot of those feats happened primarily in the 2000s era and involved Sonic growing infinitely stronger from tier 4 to tier 2, there is no reason Sonic can’t grow infinitely again, especially when there’s back to back showings of base form characters contributing a not insignificant amount against powers that have 2-B/A avenues.
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you may think that, but Eggmam clearly didn't thought of it like that, so your vision about hax not being enough really doesn't matter for what we know eggman was refering to
yeah.......that changes what Eggman was clearly referencing..how? It was Eggman just being too overconfident as usual
not at all, hax is more than enough, specially since the ruby can warp reality and create powerfull illusions, all you did here was give your opinion on why Eggman wouldn't benefit from hax only without addressing the clear implication pf what eggman meant, your opinion doesn't matter for what the character meant
and the proof that they were transmiting their AP to the shield instead of being just another shield of them to supporter the one sage made is where exactly? Again, what is the proof that they chaneled their own "AP" into the shield rather than this just being another hax, which is more likely given that it needs to assumptions vs your assumptiona route
stop dude, she isn't accepted as downscaling in anything, her shield is, amd her shield only, which mind you, also doesn't have any statements of being powered by her AP, so please stop bringing wrong information into this, stick with what was accepted
you have proof for this right? That it is made of her "energy" and she uses this "energy" to attack, again, more assumptions and no proof
Then stop using sonic "harming" void as evidence
outside of very little support and no feata to back up this huge growth? Outside of you scaling current Super forms to current base forms directly? The situations are NOT similar at all, stop being deaingenuos
There isn't, all you have are assumptions of situations with no proof that they even contributed with their AP at all
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- #78
Eggman knows the Chaos Emeralds exist and has been defeated by them numerous times, is it honestly not fair to say Eggman accounted for their power when he made the statement.
Eggman has no reason to be overconfident, he does overlook things sometimes but he’s also been defeated by the Emeralds so many times that it’s even part of a gag in TSR, and he’s incorporated the Emeralds into his plans to know how strong they are. If he thought the PR could only stand up to base Sonic, there’s no reason he would be so confident it was unstoppable.
He clearly needed the Ruby for its strength about as much as its hax, if the Ruby was just had Infinite wouldn’t have curbstomped Sonic on a level comparable to what Time Eater did to him (knocking Sonic out)
How is it hax, if they’re making the shield more durable and channeling blue energy from their hands, if the End can recharge Supreme with its energy, why can’t it be paralleled on the hero’s side with the heroes recharging the shield with their energy.
The shield is made with the same energy Sage uses to attack, the red/blue cyber energy, it’s part of a UES she has.
The proof is she channels the energy out of her hands as red cyber energy, the same way she does for every other action she takes, including her attacks.
I. Didn’t. I said Sonic fought Void in base; making Void a base Sonic opponent, and then sticking Void under the umbrella of opponents Infinite would be stronger than via the statement of him being the strongest enemy. I never said Sonic harmed Void even a single time.
No feats besides Base Sonic getting scaling to a Chaos Emerald count less than 7, which created cyberspace, a realm with its own flow of time, infinite/unquantifiable data, and multiple universes due to the Ancients’ souls and dreams existing within. Or how Base Sonic scales to Erazor absorbing half the energy out of the Arabian Nights, a realm with 8-1001 worlds and one of which containing an infinite corridor and astral plane. Or how Base Sonic tanked the paradox prism explosion, which split his universe consisting of “countless” stars and worlds into a Shatterverse with at least 5, possibly countless Shatterspaces of universal size. Etc.
If the characters hadn’t contributed at all, then Sage’s shield would have broken and The End would have killed everyone. Somehow, the cyber characters could make the shield repaired, and I doubt they used time hax to rewind the shield, or used healing, otherwise they could have kept repairing the shield when the End hit it. The fact they could only fortify the shield once implies they were putting their own energy into it, and they don’t have limitless energy to keep refilling the shield. Which makes them weaker than The End; who can infinitely repair Supreme with its energy, thus still making a base and super hierarchy.
Fezzih_007
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"Fought", that wans't really a fight, we can't confidently say It applies in the statement.
The statement does looks It saying about enemies Sonic fought physically, which he dint with Void.
Like, the statement is a advertising thing, If you can confirm that the devs are including Void in that circle
Gonna hold off in this statement, wait a little bit.
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Hard disagree, Omega makes good points. This proposal also would arguably lead to some horrendous issues with the verse's scaling chains.
