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FFF-Trashero upgrade, merging, new profile and tier 1

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chumiminjo said:
Both have the same name, as I explained before. One is the will of the universe, and the one Han Soo absorbed comprises parts of nature that the will of the universe gave to the two deities

So the will…. Is omnipresent in the whole universe but han soo only to fantasia

the series show all type of immortality except for type 5 but since this type can be nullified with EE i give it to him

forgot to change it

its in the resistance but forgot to mention it
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What about my argument that he doesn't qualify for High-Godly based on the chapter reference of 359?
 
I have already changed it , u can check his profile
 
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Since all of the skills are created from the combination of darkness and light, which have shown to create a tower that is 5D, does it mean that all of the skills are also 5D in the verse?
 
chumiminjo said:
Since all of the skills are created from the combination of darkness and light, which have shown to create a tower that is 5D, does it mean that all of the skills are also 5D in the verse?
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Using light and darkness maybe but I don't think skills by themselves are 5D
 
chumiminjo said:
Since all of the skills are created from the combination of darkness and light, which have shown to create a tower that is 5D, does it mean that all of the skills are also 5D in the verse?
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I would say no. Just because one thing is Low 1-C does not mean all his abilities are at that level. I'm assuming you're asking about Kang Han Soo's skills and not random Fantasia inhabitants or heroes, but still no.
chumiminjo said:
@Iridant @Serlock_Holmes @Unicone45
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Only staff can ping people.
 
Iridant said:
I would say no. Just because one thing is Low 1-C does not mean all his abilities are at that level. I'm assuming you're asking about Kang Han Soo's skills and not random Fantasia inhabitants or heroes, but still no.

Only staff can ping people.
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the tower was created from the combination of light and darkness

and the same goes with all of the skills in the verse except for divine power
 
Haven't read the series, so I'll probaby need a bit of context here. Most stuff seems fine but I'm confused about this:
Higher-Dimensional Existence, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Abstract Existence (Type 1), Information Manipulation (Type 2) , Power Nullification, Acausality (Type 4) and Omnipresence (He absorbed part of nature, which represents the will of the universe and serves as the origin of all things in creation. It is the reason for the existence of deities and is associated with fundamental forces such as darkness and light. The concept of nature is powerful enough to influence causality and determine the fate of various entities within the story it was even stated to exist everywhere within the universe, when han soo absorbed nature he become one with the fantasia)
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Where does the whole "Origin of all things in creation" statement come from? Haven't really seen any statement about that. The only thing I can think about is the whole calculation of [Time] + [Nature] stuff, but I'm not sure what this mechanism means so I'd appreciate a bit more context. Also, for the Information Type 2, I assume this is because Nature exists everywhere and/or all three beings had Nature as a common thing in them?

Also Tier 1 seems fine to me.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
Haven't read the series, so I'll probaby need a bit of context here. Most stuff seems fine but I'm confused about this:


Where does the whole "Origin of all things in creation" statement come from? Haven't really seen any statement about that. The only thing I can think about is the whole calculation of [Time] + [Nature] stuff, but I'm not sure what this mechanism means so I'd appreciate a bit more context. Also, for the Information Type 2, I assume this is because Nature exists everywhere and/or all three beings had Nature as a common thing in them?

Also Tier 1 seems fine to me.
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Origin of all creation because before everything there was only nature which is the will of the universe and then nature created deities and give them part of him

the calculations thing has no meaning

Information type 2 bc he is able to manipulate dark and light which is a fundamental part of system since everything is made from it
 
Does said Nature predate reality itself? Ie existed before reality? When you said Origin of all creation, I thought it meant Nature has existed before the universe itself was a thing. Is there any proof it existed before creation itself? Because the statement seems to imply it existed before the deities, not before the universe/creation/world itself.

As for the light and dark stuff, were they stated to be a fundamental part? Like, a direct statement or anything like that? And are there any exceptions from this?

Also I'm honestly kind of iffy on the regen part, as it seems only a part of him was injured, and the rest he managed to resist it. Otherwise, he would've disappeared forever, which goes against High-Godly.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
Does said Nature predate reality itself? Ie existed before reality? When you said Origin of all creation, I thought it meant Nature has existed before the universe itself was a thing. Is there any proof it existed before creation itself? Because the statement seems to imply it existed before the deities, not before the universe/creation/world itself.

As for the light and dark stuff, were they stated to be a fundamental part? Like, a direct statement or anything like that? And are there any exceptions from this?

Also I'm honestly kind of iffy on the regen part, as it seems only a part of him was injured, and the rest he managed to resist it. Otherwise, he would've disappeared forever, which goes against High-Godly.
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Nature is the universe
 
chumiminjo said:
Nature is the universe
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Then I'm honestly not sure how this will work. From my understanding, to qualify for a type 1 concept, you'd have to either show: It is independent from the things it governs or shown that it existed before the things that it governs, ie independent. But since Nature is quite literally the universe, I'm not sure how that will work. You should probably bring some dudes who are knowledgeable on the concept stuff.

For now, I'm neutral on this.

chumiminjo said:
.
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As for this, I assume this is for the info type 2 stuff? If so, I'm not exactly sure how this seems like a fundamental building block of reality? Is the system reality itself, or what? Is there a statement on how this is fundamental to reality as a whole/every being is made up of darkness and light and stuff?

Also:
improved Social Influencing (With fabrication The ability to build trust and relationships can be used to gain influence over others and even control their emotions. The effectiveness of this skill depends on its level. At levels up to B, the user's words are more convincing to their targets than those of their friends, family, and lovers, although the skill is still not perfect. At level A and beyond, the user can make their targets believe or feel as if they are friends, loved ones, or family. Finally, at the transcendent level, the user becomes more trusted by their targets than even the gods)
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This isn't really Social Influencing, but more so Emphatic Manipulation. Social Influencing is charming people or manipulating them without the use of an ability but simply sheer charisma/non-supernatural abilities. Considering the scan itself calls it an ability, I don't see this as Social Influencing.

Besides that, everything else in Part 1 seems fine. Still got to check in-depth for Part 2 and 3.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
Then I'm honestly not sure how this will work. From my understanding, to qualify for a type 1 concept, you'd have to either show: It is independent from the things it governs or shown that it existed before the things that it governs, ie independent. But since Nature is quite literally the universe, I'm not sure how that will work. You should probably bring some dudes who are knowledgeable on the concept stuff.

For now, I'm neutral on this.
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ok
Rikimarox2 said:
As for this, I assume this is for the info type 2 stuff? If so, I'm not exactly sure how this seems like a fundamental building block of reality? Is the system reality itself, or what? Is there a statement on how this is fundamental to reality as a whole/every being is made up of darkness and light and stuff?
Click to expand...

Rikimarox2 said:
Also:

This isn't really Social Influencing, but more so Emphatic Manipulation. Social Influencing is charming people or manipulating them without the use of an ability but simply sheer charisma/non-supernatural abilities. Considering the scan itself calls it an ability, I don't see this as Social Influencing.
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ok i will fix it
Rikimarox2 said:
Besides that, everything else in Part 1 seems fine. Still got to check in-depth for Part 2 and 3.
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Limited Instinctive Action (As the chaos dragonian unleashed its fatal attack, his keen instincts screamed at him to evade and avoid the impending devastation) #not sure of this
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Isn't really Instinctive Action, as that imply him moving his body without his conscious thought, ie his body moving on his own. Not sure what to classify it as, though even if you keep it, it isn't that big of a problem. You can also probably just mention it in his Enhanced Senses that he can sense danger via his instincts.

Improved Absorption, Power Modification, Energy Manipulation, Energy Projection, Summoning, Resurrection, Fusionism, Soul Manipulation and Regeneration Negation (Mid-Godly) (he has the power to manipulate EXP, absorbing and converting it into energy attacks. However, doing so will decrease his level. He can also transfer his EXP to others, but transferring a large amount of EXP can result in the destruction of their physical body and soul. Additionally, he can absorb 100% of the EXP after becoming a natural human. When someone kills, they only receive 2% of the EXP, with the rest being lost. However, due to his race's effects, he obtains 100% of it. This also means that their soul will be absorbed and transformed into EXP, which cannot be retrieved even if they are resurrected with dark energy or by a saint. In such cases, their soul would be replaced and become undead, inhabiting a soulless body controlled by the void, Nevertheless, after becoming a natural spirit, he now has the ability to reassign spirits. Any spirit he absorbed before can be resurrected, but only those with transcendental skills, at the cost of his experience points. Additionally, it is possible to fuse a spirit with an object, such as a sword)
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Pretty sure for this to qualify as Regen neg of Mid-Godly, you need to show the destruction of body, soul AND mind, as the regen page specifies:
Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete erasure of one's body, mind, and soul.
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This is moreso Low-Godly negation (Assuming there are characters who can regen from soul but couldn't after this).

Other than that, everything else in Part 2 seems fine.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
Pretty sure for this to qualify as Regen neg of Mid-Godly, you need to show the destruction of body, soul AND mind, as the regen page specifies:

This is moreso Low-Godly negation (Assuming there are characters who can regen from soul but couldn't after this).

Other than that, everything else in Part 2 seems fine.
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whats the difference? Mind is part of physical body

and it never happened it was just a statement from the mc
 
No he tried it on someone but i think only his soul was destroyed but at the same time he said physical and soul maybe cause he stopped before the destruction of body idk
 
It will appear in the manhwa after 2-5 chapters so i will make sure after the release of the chapter
 
chumiminjo said:
whats the difference? Mind is part of physical body

and it never happened it was just a statement from the mc
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Was it stated in-verse to be a part of the physical body? Many series' don't really think that mind is part of the physical body, as there are a lot of characters who simply regenerate from their consciousness despite their entire body being erased. A lot of them can simply exist as a consciousness, etc...

This is why the regen page itself specifies Body, soul, and mind. It doesn't automatically assume mind is part of the body.

Tbh I'm iffy on giving it regen neg in the first place if there were no characters shown regeneration from the soul, as it doesn't seem to specify that it negates regeneration, simply it destroys the soul and the body. You could probably just remove regen negation altogether, as this is just soul manipulation + body destruction.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
Was it stated in-verse to be a part of the physical body? Many series' don't really think that mind is part of the physical body, as there are a lot of characters who simply regenerate from their consciousness despite their entire body being erased. A lot of them can simply exist as a consciousness, etc...

This is why the regen page itself specifies Body, soul, and mind. It doesn't automatically assume mind is part of the body.

Tbh I'm iffy on giving it regen neg in the first place if there were no characters shown regeneration from the soul, as it doesn't seem to specify that it negates regeneration, simply it destroys the soul and the body. You could probably just remove regen negation altogether, as this is just soul manipulation + body destruction
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actually there‘s another reason for regen neg

1- transferring a big amount of exp destroy soul and physical body
2-when he kill someone he absorb their soul , its stated normally when someone dies only 2% are absorbed thats why they can be resurrect but because of han soo race

whenever he kill someone he absorbed 100% of his exp which means even the soul is absorbed
they even tried to resurrect someone and his soul was replaced by something else controlled by the void
 
chumiminjo said:
actually there‘s another reason for regen neg

1- transferring a big amount of exp destroy soul and physical body
2-when he kill someone he absorb their soul , its stated normally when someone dies only 2% are absorbed thats why they can be resurrect but because of han soo race

whenever he kill someone he absorbed 100% of his exp which means even the soul is absorbed
they even tried to resurrect someone and his soul was replaced by something else controlled by the void
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If that's the case, then I suppose Low-Godly Negation is fine, then.
 
Low 1-C seems fine, from Ultima's explanation; the justifications should be updated to reflect this.

I am curious about the reasonings for Low 2-C since there are none; I am assuming the Low 2-C similar to this case:
Galaxy level Environmental Destruction via his death (The hero and the Demon King are like the pillars of the world. If either of them dies, the world will be destroyed, and the system will create a new one with different settings that are manipulated by the teaching staff)

In this case, is the universe or world the size of galaxy, if it is supposed to be the size of universe, it sounds to be Low 2-C.
-
On regeneration negation, if High-Godly regeneration doesn't exist in the verse; it shouldn't be there and it should probably scaled to the Mid-Godly.
 
Elizhaa said:
Low 1-C seems fine, from Ultima's explanation; the justifications should be updated to reflect this.

I am curious about the reasonings for Low 2-C since there are none; I am assuming the Low 2-C similar to this case:
Galaxy level Environmental Destruction via his death (The hero and the Demon King are like the pillars of the world. If either of them dies, the world will be destroyed, and the system will create a new one with different settings that are manipulated by the teaching staff)

In this case, is the universe or world the size of galaxy, if it is supposed to be the size of universe, it sounds to be Low 2-C.
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unknown, but I'm assuming that it's galaxy sized because before the creation of the system, they were in one of the galaxies only
Elizhaa said:
-
On regeneration negation, if High-Godly regeneration doesn't exist in the verse; it shouldn't be there and it should probably scaled to the Mid-Godly.7
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destroying/absorbing someone nature is not high godly if not then i will change it
 
Thinking about it this whole first angel first demon king secone demon king thing probably grants them some form of plot or fate manipulation depending on the way it is depicted
 
Orioreeem said:
Thinking about it this whole first angel first demon king secone demon king thing probably grants them some form of plot or fate manipulation depending on the way it is depicted
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Thanks for reminding me about this.

I think they should have plot manipulation and possibly acausality type 5 for the following reasons:

1) There's an ability that was created by the second demon when she gained full control of the system. It's called Karma, and it was used to teach students a lesson because heroes didn't care if they died due to the concept of regression. Every time they died, it would affect their story, resulting in harsher conditions at the start of their adventure and less support and appreciation from the summoner country and its population. For example, items would be sold at a higher cost, and it would be harder to convince people of something after each regression. They would not receive any help on missions, and the route to obtain their holy sword and defeat the demon king would become much harder...

2) It was used to control the way some of the characters act, for example, the demon king's fragments. his fragments talk to the hero like an RPG game and keep repeating the same script in every dimension, even though the demon king is fully conscious of everything and can control any fragments, When heroes ask the demon king questions that are out of the script, like, for example, 'who is behind all of this,' he will never respond to their questions and will continue saying the same thing (because he was sealed). It was stated once the characters who reach the transcendental realm (Z rank) can break free of the system rules. So maybe that's why they give the heroes the debuff perk and let them repeat everything from the beginning, including their stats (Han Soo was the first one to reach Z rank because of the black box, which also let him ignore the system rules and keep his power after regressing). The debuff perks equal the demon king's power to the heroes. Perhaps that's also why the demon king kept telling the heroes to try and grow stronger because if the hero got a Z skill, the demon king would get Z too. That's why, in the sixth playthrough saga, for the first time, the demon king acted differently and left the tower (he was sealed there). It was stated in one of the chapters that if the hero grew stronger, he might break free from the dimension and run away from the world. And that is the demon king's plan, and he succeeded but in another way by tricking Han in the same arc and letting his daughter, the second demon, meet Han Soo, which means the second curse will affect him and change fate, so Han Soo will become the second demon and free himself from the dimension. So yeah, Correct me if wrong I think that's plot manipulation and possibly acausality type 5 for characters with Z rank. And sorry for my bad explanation : )
 
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Conclusion System is programmed to follow one script that has the same beginning and ending, but the heroes choose the path. If you are asking why the first angel didn't show up to control the plot again and stop what was happening, it's because the second demon is the developer, and the first angel is the ruler. The second demon, who is the developer, sealed half or more of the system before the ruler betrayed her and programmed the system so that nothing would harm her. So, when she got sealed, the first angel didn't have full access to the system's power; she only controlled around 30-50% of it.

Z rank and higher characters can ignore the rules that were set by the system so Its either resistance to law or type 5 acausality because it can control plot
 
chumiminjo said:
Thanks for reminding me about this.

I think they should have plot manipulation and possibly acausality type 5 for the following reasons:

1) There's an ability that was created by the second demon when she gained full control of the system. It's called Karma, and it was used to teach students a lesson because heroes didn't care if they died due to the concept of regression. Every time they died, it would affect their story, resulting in harsher conditions at the start of their adventure and less support and appreciation from the summoner country and its population. For example, items would be sold at a higher cost, and it would be harder to convince people of something after each regression. They would not receive any help on missions, and the route to obtain their holy sword and defeat the demon king would become much harder...

2) It was used to control the way some of the characters act, for example, the demon king's fragments. his fragments talk to the hero like an RPG game and keep repeating the same script in every dimension, even though the demon king is fully conscious of everything and can control any fragments, When heroes ask the demon king questions that are out of the script, like, for example, 'who is behind all of this,' he will never respond to their questions and will continue saying the same thing (because he was sealed). It was stated once the characters who reach the transcendental realm (Z rank) can break free of the system rules. So maybe that's why they give the heroes the debuff perk and let them repeat everything from the beginning, including their stats (Han Soo was the first one to reach Z rank because of the black box, which also let him ignore the system rules and keep his power after regressing). The debuff perks equal the demon king's power to the heroes. Perhaps that's also why the demon king kept telling the heroes to try and grow stronger because if the hero got a Z skill, the demon king would get Z too. That's why, in the sixth playthrough saga, for the first time, the demon king acted differently and left the tower (he was sealed there). It was stated in one of the chapters that if the hero grew stronger, he might break free from the dimension and run away from the world. And that is the demon king's plan, and he succeeded but in another way by tricking Han in the same arc and letting his daughter, the second demon, meet Han Soo, which means the second curse will affect him and change fate, so Han Soo will become the second demon and free himself from the dimension. So yeah, Correct me if wrong I think that's plot manipulation and possibly acausality type 5 for characters with Z rank. And sorry for my bad explanation : )
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Acausality type 5 requires being completely independent of cause and effect. It is specifically stated on the Acausality page that "Characters of this nature require evidence of being unable to be changed by any effect that relies on a system of causality, meaning that interacting with them normally is impossible." The fact that characters can interact with him in a normal way, like them saying something and him responding, means he should not get this. Operating on different rules of causality is type 4, and can be found on characters whose powers frequently break the laws of causality.

Karma is not a Plot Manipulation worthy ability. It's mostly Law Manipulation mixed with some Empathic Manipulation, though it qualifies for the former more. Manipulating parts of a story is not enough to give Plot Manipulation, mostly because there are many other powers that can accomplish similar effects. Some examples are Fate Manipulation, Reality Warping, Law Manipulation, etcetera. To have Plot Manipulation, a character must do something from manipulating the plot specifically. Quote from the Plot Manipulation page: "Note that plot manipulation should not be listed just because a power is compared to a trope or otherwise metafiction is used as a metaphor. For instance, a character that is lucky or fated to win like the protagonist of a story would only get this power if that is done by altering the plot."
 
Iridant said:
Acausality type 5 requires being completely independent of cause and effect. It is specifically stated on the Acausality page that "Characters of this nature require evidence of being unable to be changed by any effect that relies on a system of causality, meaning that interacting with them normally is impossible." The fact that characters can interact with him in a normal way, like them saying something and him responding, means he should not get this. Operating on different rules of causality is type 4, and can be found on characters whose powers frequently break the laws of causality.
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The second demon is stated to be unaffected by causality within the system only, but she is affected by nature curse, at least until Han Soo breaks the curse with his nature
Iridant said:
Karma is not a Plot Manipulation worthy ability. It's mostly Law Manipulation mixed with some Empathic Manipulation, though it qualifies for the former more. Manipulating parts of a story is not enough to give Plot Manipulation, mostly because there are many other powers that can accomplish similar effects. Some examples are Fate Manipulation, Reality Warping, Law Manipulation, etcetera. To have Plot Manipulation, a character must do something from manipulating the plot specifically. Quote from the Plot Manipulation page: "Note that plot manipulation should not be listed just because a power is compared to a trope or otherwise metafiction is used as a metaphor.
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What about what happens to the demon king? His existence became dependent on the script that was set for him until he reached Z rank
Iridant said:
For instance, a character that is lucky or fated to win like the protagonist of a story would only get this power if that is done by altering the plot."
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Actually, one of the characters has it. He can do the same with his Providence, but Han Soo defeated him with his Providence too. The difference is that the first hero can do it non-stop, while Han Soo [ hero] will have it activated only if there's justice

The providence of the first hero is luck and undefeated
luck is luck : )
Undefeated is that he will never lose : )
 
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And I remembered in one of the sagas, they created a different dimension where the objective was different from the previous one. The world has no demon king, and their goal is to defeat the five disasters only. They increased their power and also programmed the people of this world to guide the heroes to defeat the five disasters only. So, this is also not plot manipulation from the system?
 
chumiminjo said:
The second demon is stated to be unaffected by causality within the system only, but she is affected by nature curse, at least until Han Soo breaks the curse with his nature

What about what happens to the demon king? His existence became dependent on the script that was set for him until he reached Z rank

Actually, one of the characters has it. He can do the same with his Providence, but Han Soo defeated him with his Providence too. The difference is that the first hero can do it non-stop, while Han Soo [ hero] will have it activated only if there's justice

The providence of the first hero is luck and undefeated
luck is luck : )
Undefeated is that he will never lose : )
Click to expand...
So do i count this as a plot manipulation?
 
chumiminjo said:
So do i count this as a plot manipulation?
Click to expand...
Being able to prevent yourself from losing with Undefeated sounds like Fate Manipulation, not Plot Manipulation, in this case. The power of Luck sounds like Supernatural Luck.

KHS countering the ability to win sounds like his Fate Manipulation being stronger than his opponent.

Mentioning words like "protagonist" wouldn't really qualify for Plot Manipulation unless there's good supporting evidence. The fact that the KHS is called a protagonist "at this moment" when he's always been Trashero's protagonist makes it clear the words are not from someone aware of the world as fiction.
 
Iridant said:
the world as fiction.
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There's a difference between fantasia and the actual universe KHS comes from. It's a multiverse, and inside one of the universes of the multiverse, there is a pocket dimension. This pocket dimension contains a parallel world as well and KHS merged the pocket dimension that has 5D

and got a question does it make the multiverse 6D for having a 5D word inside it ?
 
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