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Strongest Non-Smurf Low 2-C (Discussion)

Dragonite007 said:
Unknown (SCP-2470's abilities do not focus on destruction)

He don't have a Low 2-C rate and the profile said his abilitie don't focus in destruction
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You kind of ignored what I've said about the rating, erasure ≠ destruction, hence it should keep the Low 2-C rating but it isn't there for some reason.
 
Dragonite007 said:
Erasure and destruction are synonyms
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Destruction is when you end the existence of something or someone by damaging or attacking it. Remember that it “ENDS” the existence of something that exists so before ending the existence of the target, it still exists but after the damage is done the object ceases.

Erasure on the other hand is not just ending the existence but when used, there is no ”NEED” for ending the existence of something or someone because when used, the target never even existed in the first place because it induces Non-Being=Nonexistence.
 
Kirinator07 said:
Destruction is when you end the existence of something or someone by damaging or attacking it. Remember that it “ENDS” the existence of something that exists so before ending the existence of the target, it still exists but after the damage is done the object ceases.

Erasure on the other hand is not just ending the existence but when used, there is no ”NEED” for ending the existence of something or someone because when used, the target never even existed in the first place because it induces Non-Being=Nonexistence.

Only Destruction and Obliteration are synonyms
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you can twist the words however you want it won't change that this doesn't have Low 2-C.

And even if it did, it wouldn't go past the 7th spot
 
Dragonite007 said:
you can twist the words however you want it won't change that this doesn't have Low 2-C.

And even if it did, it wouldn't go past the 7th spot
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So no argument to counter it, plus again ignoring the reasoning of why it wouldn't make sense for the rating to not be added to EC, Giygas is unimaginably affected on a level that compares to a huge NEP scaling chain that rivals Sun Wukong.
 
Kirinator07 said:
So no argument to counter it, plus again ignoring the reasoning of why it wouldn't make sense for the rating to not be added to EC, Giygas is unimaginably affected on a level that compares to a huge NEP scaling chain that rivals Sun Wukong.
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I don't need to make a argument, because this is the profile's word vs yours words.
And they can't defeat Giygas because they don't have range to do it
 
Kirinator07 said:
It is illogical to assume since 3930's profile states that its omnipresent beyond the scope of existence, yet it affected it.
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You are straight up lying about how that works, the phenomena known as 3930 literally only extends to 200m, what 2470 affected is that phenomenon, not the true scope of it, hell the ******* fact you are attempting to cross scale 2470 to the kaktusverse 3930, which is a whole ass can of worms
 
deonment said:
You are straight up lying about how that works, the phenomena known as 3930 literally only extends to 200m, what 2470 affected is that phenomenon, not the true scope of it, hell the ******* fact you are attempting to cross scale 2470 to the kaktusverse 3930, which is a whole ass can of worms
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Let me ask you a question, what constitutes a non-smurf? Is the dimensional difference being disregarded in spite of the tier?
 
deonment said:
Also, she passively destroys the world by draining it which is expressly shown in the AP section multiple times, along with the fact that the seals were to stop her from draining the world.
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That's just... not true lol.

Her destroying the world is via existing, not draining it.

In fact, Me and DT actually had a very long thread recently discussing whether she should get large size based on the statements about her existence being too heavy for a standard universe to sustain.

Her absorption is not passive, it's just something she can instantly do like pushing a button.
 
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deonment said:
Causality is included in Fate in-verse, in addition to already resisting it, law manip and concept manip is resisted as well, I was pointing it out to mention how deleting the universe won't do anything to them

CM1 is only excluded when it comes to Essence, which is 1-A, but domains that are still CM1 are included and resisted, this includes domains that straight up erase people, on the issue of causality, Wang Lin had domains based upon Karma and Life and Death, both of which involve causality, hell Infinity Destroyer is literally the latter, Wang Lin has used his domain before to straight up bring stuff to their end. Will cover AP issues below
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The page says nothing about that distinction regarding Concept Manip, though.

What causality is concerned... any evidence of that? I don't see why Karma or Life and Death would qualify as causality, nor why fate would. (I mean, SH causality manip isn't just "your destined to xy", it's just straight up reality warping to make whatever they want happen immediately) Medea's attacks aren't just Death Manip based casuality, they straight up destroy causality in and of itself as a neat little side effect.

Also, and that's relevant as well, is resistance immunity here? At this level in particular? Because if this stuff does any damage at all, Medea can just pile it on even if it doesn't oneshot.

deonment said:
Yes and Ecang scales to or above people who would oneshot those people who could destroy the universe with a thought.
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Which is still not really impressive for Medea, who scales to her own durability to an extent, which can take countless blows from Rapthalia, who has AP comparable to Medea's casual attacks, which are stronger than what she does by merely existing, which destroys a universe reinforced by fusing 8 universes together.

deonment said:
DT you know as well as I do that stacking 8 spacetimes is not that impressive since infinity*8= is still infinity, there is still only an R number of 3D snapshots. That is not that impressive as an AP feat
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Except in this case the fusing of two universes explicitly makes the resulting universe more durable, so each fusion is an above baseline by the same logic that casually destroying a universe or oneshotting someone baseline is.

deonment said:
Also, she passively destroys the world by draining it which is expressly shown in the AP section multiple times, along with the fact that the seals were to stop her from draining the world.
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No. No she doesn't do so via draining. Her AP section literally says nothing about draining so I don't know where you get that from.
 
Actually Veldora can incon with 4th & 5th spot, because his range only Universal+ and anyone in 4th & 5th spot outrange him. And also anyone in 4th & 5th can't deal with Veldora Immortality (Type 9) which is reside on the Rimuru Imaginary Space, so yeah need 2-A range to deal with it. Speaking technically, Medea also can incon with 3rd and 4th, but because she incon with Mori first, so she get in 5th spot alongside with Mori.

So to be fair, why not put Veldora in 5th alongside Mori and Medea.

What do you think @Dragonite007 ?
 
Megaraptor149 said:
Actually Veldora can incon with 4th & 5th spot, because his range only Universal+ and anyone in 4th & 5th spot outrange him. And also anyone in 4th & 5th can't deal with Veldora Immortality (Type 9) which is reside on the Rimuru Imaginary Space, so yeah need 2-A range to deal with it. Speaking technically, Medea also can incon with 3rd and 4th, but because she incon with Mori first, so she get in 5th spot alongside with Mori.

So to be fair, why not put Veldora in 5th alongside Mori and Medea.

What do you think @Dragonite007 ?
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seems correct
 
The ones higher up on the list are the ones that can't be killed or interacted with right?

Are there any people in Destiny who can kill Dracula? You know, Dracula has passive Plot Manipulation that sort of prevents him from losing.

If someone from Destiny doesn't have resistance to this, everything that enters Dracula's range is rewritten, and it gets even worse if Destiny characters are within Dracula's range.
 
DontTalkDT said:
The page says nothing about that distinction regarding Concept Manip, though.

What causality is concerned... any evidence of that? I don't see why Karma or Life and Death would qualify as causality, nor why fate would. (I mean, SH causality manip isn't just "your destined to xy", it's just straight up reality warping to make whatever they want happen immediately) Medea's attacks aren't just Death Manip based casuality, they straight up destroy causality in and of itself as a neat little side effect.

Also, and that's relevant as well, is resistance immunity here? At this level in particular? Because if this stuff does any damage at all, Medea can just pile it on even if it doesn't oneshot.
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That is because the implication is that since the third step section mentions CM1 to the degree of essence, the CM1 being excluded is that of Essence level concept manip, in addition to domains previously having been type 2(old type 3) and ecang still only mentioning not having CM1.

I would have to search through 2000 chapter long novel for scans, give me a break if you will, but I can just give a summary of what it is, and it isn't just making someone destined to do smth. Life and Death is that life is the cause and death is the effect, when a raindrop is born in the sky that is the cause and it falling to the ground is the effect, the raindrop landing on the ground is the cause and it forming a puddle is the effect. Wang Lin uses Life and Death normally to well, manipulate life and death in conventional manners, but he has down the capabilities to bring stuff like spells to their end, removing the effect of them happening. For Karma it is easier as Karma fundamentally involves manipulating Karmatic Cause, Karmatic Effect, and Karmatic Fate, for uses I currently do not exactly remember, but it isn't as simple as manipulating destiny or whatever. And fate just encompasses causality in Ergen.

Yes, yes it is, given wang lin wasn't even second step when he had his life and death domain, and was not that far into second step when he completed his karma one, and the difference between even peak 2nd step and entrance 3rd step is greater than the difference between peak 2nd step and mortals.
DontTalkDT said:
Which is still not really impressive for Medea, who scales to her own durability to an extent, which can take countless blows from Rapthalia, who has AP comparable to Medea's casual attacks, which are stronger than what she does by merely existing, which destroys a universe reinforced by fusing 8 universes together.
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I mean Ecang itself does just scale above the whole entry-level 3rd step cultivators being able to laugh away quasi 3rd steps, given he scales to the golden exalt level, of which there is, many a gap between since each stage has 4 parts, early, mid, late, great circle/peak, the difference between them at this level being to such a point that one above can stomp the one below them, and only gets larger as one rises up the stages, and Ecang scales to the 5th stage
Meaning he is
Quasi 3rd step (Low 2-C with a thought) << Early Nirvana Void (Can Laugh away Quasi Third Steps) < Mid Nirvana Void < Late Nirvana Void < Great Circle Nirvana Void << Early Spirit Void < Mid Spirit Void < Late Spirit Void < Great Circle Spirit Void <<< Early Arcane Void < Mid Arcane Void < Late Arcane Void < Great Circle Arcane Void < Arcane Tribulants (Still apart of the arcane void level with there being 9 steps each stronger than the last) <<< Early Void Tribulant <<< Mid Void Tributlant <<< Late Void Tribulant <<< Peak of Late Void Tribulant (Ecang's level)
DontTalkDT said:
Except in this case the fusing of two universes explicitly makes the resulting universe more durable, so each fusion is an above baseline by the same logic that casually destroying a universe or oneshotting someone baseline is.
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It would be unquantifiably greater yes
DontTalkDT said:
No. No she doesn't do so via draining. Her AP section literally says nothing about draining so I don't know where you get that from.
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Your entire feats section literally says she mostly passively destroys the universe by draining it, yes she can actively destroy it, but that is far different than being able to destroy it passively
 
deonment said:
Your entire feats section literally says she mostly passively destroys the universe by draining it, yes she can actively destroy it, but that is far different than being able to destroy it passively
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This is the part of the feat section we're referring to.

“That’s right. Let’s compare this all to a paper. You can place a light stone on it, right? But what about if the stone were heavier? You’ll need a paper thick enough to support it. The paper is the world, and the stone, god. No, it’s probably completely different, but I guess if she just came down as she pleased, there would be terrible aftereffects.”

A paper and a stone…
After the world assimilation started, the monsters levels all rose drastically.
The paper’s capacity wasn’t high enough, so it spiked its level?

The world has its own width, and a set amount of weight it can carry.
She gets it just big enough to sustain her before coming down.
I guess there’s some sense to it.
„~ Chapter 362
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^This is what we're talking about.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
The ones higher up on the list are the ones that can't be killed or interacted with right?

Are there any people in Destiny who can kill Dracula? You know, Dracula has passive Plot Manipulation that sort of prevents him from losing.

If someone from Destiny doesn't have resistance to this, everything that enters Dracula's range is rewritten, and it gets even worse if Destiny characters are within Dracula's range.
Click to expand...
Does anyone out there know Destiny, otherwise I think I should make a match.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
Does anyone out there know Destiny, otherwise I think I should make a match.
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I think this guys are the strongest
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Phsccarvalho said:
The ones higher up on the list are the ones that can't be killed or interacted with right?

Are there any people in Destiny who can kill Dracula? You know, Dracula has passive Plot Manipulation that sort of prevents him from losing.

If someone from Destiny doesn't have resistance to this, everything that enters Dracula's range is rewritten, and it gets even worse if Destiny characters are within Dracula's range.
Click to expand...
They can't kill him but Drac can actually do anything to them so he gets a lower spot on the list
 
Megaraptor149 said:
Actually Veldora can incon with 4th & 5th spot, because his range only Universal+ and anyone in 4th & 5th spot outrange him. And also anyone in 4th & 5th can't deal with Veldora Immortality (Type 9) which is reside on the Rimuru Imaginary Space, so yeah need 2-A range to deal with it. Speaking technically, Medea also can incon with 3rd and 4th, but because she incon with Mori first, so she get in 5th spot alongside with Mori.
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We don't give a character a spot if they can only incon with someone due to a form of incorporeality and stuff like that. Aka, if the character is only going to get that spot because the person doesn't have the range/npi to interact with them and the character can't do a damn thing to the person they are trying to share the spot with, they don't get the spot.
This is top strongest after all, not top stonewalls
 
deonment said:
They can't kill him but Drac can actually do anything to them so he gets a lower spot on the list
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It can affect them significantly. If they were within Dracula's reach.

But it looks like they have Multiversal range and type 9 immortality, so I guess it's something similar to rimuru? Then it would be stalemate.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
It can affect them significantly. If they were within Dracula's reach.

But it looks like they have Multiversal range and type 9 immortality, so I guess it's something similar to rimuru? Then it would be stalemate.
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Yeah but even if the plot hax affects them it doesnt change the fact that they straight-up resist the rest of Dracula's kit to the point where his only option would be an incon

If he manages to kill them they respawn back in their throne worlds which are a 2-B distance away, yes
 
Range and immortality shenanigans aside.

"it literally destabilizes the foe’s power and rewrites the narrative to let them win. And it works when any powers of chaos are active, which given Dark Lord soma is being used that’s what’s happening. Meaning whatever Sword Logic does literally does not work as it’s destabilized completely." - How Dracula's plot manipulation works according to Glass.

Thing is, that doesn't work. Dracula doesn't have the range or interaction feats to do anything to the Sword Logic.
 
I don't really understand how to make them fight.

Btw, Arata here has Breakdown Phenomenon which can be used to attack, also Breakdown Phenomenon will make you turn into particles and then absorbed in the world of nothingness.

In addition, Arata has Limited NeP & Ae1 aspect types 1 & 3 obtained from Yui Kurata's Law Manipulation (for justification, please see Yui's profile, because Arata was scaled by her), so of course it is a defense for Arata.

However, Arata's Power Nullification can negate your abilities, as it can negate Law Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation, Sealing, Cloth, Transformation, & Magic.
 
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