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I am currently discussing this proposal off-site, all I will note right now is that so far I am not convinced.Vietthai96/sandbox1
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I am currently discussing this proposal off-site, all I will note right now is that so far I am not convinced.Vietthai96/sandbox1
vsbattles.fandom.com
Okay. Thank you for the evaluation.I am currently discussing this proposal off-site, all I will note right now is that so far I am not convinced.
Okay. Thank you for the evaluation.
Yes, i have made changes according to Domino's guidance, just some minor errorsMy concerns have been assuaged.
That looks good to me.
The first sandbox in OP is Special Ki, i alreadt added its contents to Special Ki Manipulation (Dragon Ball) pageThank you for helping out.
So should the contents of the sandbox in question be moved to a regular wiki page, and if so, what title should it get?
Yes, i will do so when i go home, currently workingOkay then, but both of them should preferably be linked to in the asspciated verse page.
Nah, it is nothing, i created the revision thread and the sandbox so it is my responsibility anywayOkay. No problem. Thank you for helping out.
Resistance: Again, only implied to be possible with the time bird, not with normal time users who aren't on the same level as the time bird given how big of a deal he is.
Power of Destruction resistance: Do you have any scans whatsoever that the universe tree was actively trying to use the destruction powers to kill the time bird? Because the scan on it being able to help goku despite being absorbed, which was the intent of the tree.
Corruption, Morality and Madness hax: The scans here literally have statements of the characters being brainwashed/mind controlled by the dark ki. Nothing about this implies the 3 abilities listed there.
My bad then, it's just that it happens literally everywhere throughout Xenoverse and Heroes, so missing that is kinda difficultTbf he never said mind-related the abilities aren't valid, just that there are no scans for them.
I hope so, but I'm confident that we will reach an agreementWell, it should be easy to clear up this misunderstanding in that case.
Do you have any scans whatsoever about the bird having god ki at all? Because Beerus not recognizing it as a god or any statements of it having god ki doesn't really help anyone who's not familiar with the games. In fact is there any scans for these abilities the time bird grants because the only links
They all used the same power:space time manipulation and higher dimensional manipulation: Given all the scans that's given here, this heavily seems like a time bird thing only given everyone else having some time powers don't remotely mention controlling the entire space time continuum, just being able to wander through time easily. On top of all of Chronoa's scans here doesn't really make it sound like this applies to everyone else and it's just a thing for her to control time. Hell Demigra mentions having absorbed the time bird's power allows him to control all of time and space, and this guy just mentions he can reduce the time of the entire universe to 0 thanks to having the time bird's power, so I'm not sure why this would scale to anyone with time powers and not just the time bird.
from here, Chronoa try to use space-time to attack Fu but well, obviously he resist itScans for space time stuff here being used to negate durability
1. Returned everything to initial state is not causality hax?????. Also the statistics part is game play mechanicCausality, and Fate hax: So what exactly about this scan implies causality hax? This looks like power nullification or statistics reduction. Same with the whole fate hax thing as "that's their fate" doesn't sound literal fate hax as the user just destroyed a time scroll which lead to the destruction of a timeline, as opposed to literally controlling the fates of others.
Again like all of above, they used the same power, also Tokitoki is the reason for the existence of Supreme Kai of TimeExistence erasure: Again, this looks like a chain reaction effect of erasing the time scrolls resulting in the erasure of the timeline given how important they are to the stories. Demigra's statement and Aios' stuff has more validity with this than the time scrolls but this can just be a timebird and kaioshin of time ability than a normal time power for everyone.
Here, i forgot to add it, there is also another two in Xenoverse but i forgot where it isMemory manipulation: So where's the scan on them erasing memories specifically with time powers here? Because there's nothing here
Space-time distortion. Also like the Time Power page said, all of the power users can distort space-time, timeline and history, scan laying all around, it is really easy to see. Subjective reality is also in Fate hax section, as they can change the future out come based on their thought and desireReality Warping and Subjective reality: Since when did keeping the timelines/universes intact automatically means they can warp reality? None of this remotely mentions warping the fabric of reality with time powers. Subjective reality needs a scan since there's nothing here to justify it.
It is from the causality card hax, but well your comment is fair since it could be nitpicking on my part, but anyway the power can null power via three ways, either directly seal them away or revert everything back to before opponent acquired power or power up, or just make it disappearDamage Manipulation, Statistics manipulation, Accelerated Development, Adaptation and RE negation: Again, looks more like power nulling/statistics reduction here than negation. Especially when it mentions it's due to energy used here so what part of this implies the last 3 abilities being negated?
and Fu used Time Power on it:Void Manipulation: Got any scans on the crack of time being a void? Cause nothing's there.
Understandable, however the reason from my part is: Time Power also force Demon to be affected by time hax from it, as it is stated that Tokitoki dragged Fu to a time mess, which you already know that Demon already disconnected from flow of time thus should not be dragged back to time normallyAcausality negation: This honestly needs to be reworded to just being "can affect type 4 Acausal beings". Negating type 4 would imply the time bird being able to bring the demons back into the normal flow of time, rendering them susceptible to paradoxes. Also again, looks like a time bird thing, not a time powers in general thing.
Universal Energy System????. Time Power is UES, it prove resistance so when nulling it you also null its resistances?????. But anyway i can understand your pointsResistance Negation: Yeah this is a hard no for me, having stronger hax (which nothing about this implies) indicates any form of resistance negation to time powers. The page itself specifically stated that just overpowering one's resistance with stronger hax does not qualify for res negging whatsoever.
Full contexts, Fu resist space-time power and said like Chronoa he resist the powerResistance: Again, only implied to be possible with the time bird, not with normal time users who aren't on the same level as the time bird given how big of a deal he is.
Forgot this but: Clear away the Darkness is not Purification??, He clean the entire Demon Realm......Purification: Is this really purification? The time bird just destroyed whatever that was when transforming. Nothing about that implies any purification that cures people from status ailments or anything.
I need to go to sleep now since it is midnight in my country, and due to my work i don't have much time on PC so we will talking about Time Power first, we can talk about Concept blog and Dark Ki after we finish Time Power, if that fine to you Glassman
In the scan linked, the player is trapped within the "World of Mind Control" where they need to defeat a fake copy of themselves in order to break out of the mind control. They're basically fighting an illusion inside their head, but I can understand that this prob requires a better explanation.Illusion Creation and Perception hax: So what about this is remotely implied in the scans here? It's only mentioned mind control, that's it, no illusions or perceptions.
To better explain the context, during Dark Shenron's feat, where he was simply just flexing his Dark Ki when summoned, he made "impossibilities possible" by changing history/fate, per say. One of these examples was the version of Bardock "summoned" by Dark Shenron, who then transformed into a SS4 like it was normal to him. Chronoa then noted that because of Dark Shenron's influence/ki/"spacetime-division", warriors who originally shouldn't have even existed now end up drifting to the Time Vault. Dark Shenron effectively changed the fate/history of this random alternate timeline Bardock, causing him to have SS4 like it was normal thing for him, which Chronoa herself deemed as impossible in history (as Bardock normally doesn't/can't become a SS4 in the future obviously). This SS4 Bardock only exists due to Dark Shenron's distortion of history/fate as that's the only way a SS4 Bardock can actually exist in history, as he was bringing impossible warriors into existenceCausality, Probability and Fate hax: What part of these scans imply rewriting fate or probability or cause and effect as a whole? A lot of this just screams space time warping to the point of bringing alternate versions of characters from different timelines as oppose to rewriting all of these abilities to make this happen.
Controlling a 4D space is considered Higher-Dimensional Manip in the wiki's own page so manipulating the Demon Realm should qualify for HDM. There is also the Crack of Time feat.Space-Time and higher dimension: None of the demon world scans or fu's normal cuts would imply making or controlling a higher dimension, especially when the demon world is in a space that already existed prior to the demon world being a thing. the doors swallowing the worlds would be a better justification than these scans.
Most of the scans are listed in the Basic Level of Dark Ki usage, where characters get corrupted and turned into mad berserks. There are countless other examples, but if necessary, we can add a few more.Corruption, Morality and Madness hax: The scans here literally have statements of the characters being brainwashed/mind controlled by the dark ki. Nothing about this implies the 3 abilities listed there.
Ummmmm, I'm assuming you're referring to this scan? The first scan of this album literally brings up the "empty spacetime" which is Fu's universe, with Trunks even stating that Goku's unmistakenly in Fu's created universe, and the scan after that literally states that a "new spacetime" was born, which again is Fu's universe, so that's atleast 2 spacetime statements for Fu's universe. But if that's not enough, I suppose we can add more statements about Fu's universe being a "new spacetime" or "empty spacetime", which there are plenty of (The term "Empty spacetime" is referring to the fact that it lacks all mortal life btw)Space-Time Manipulation: The scan with whis doesn't mention anything about him making another space time, just more BFR.
Pretty sure that simply shaking the world doesn't literally cause entire buildings to float up in the sky and a giant hole in space.Reality Warping: This just looks like more dragon ball energy shaking the world over literally warping the fabric of reality.
Dark Factor resists Robelu's Time Rail which reflects and rewinds attacks backResistance to attack reflection: scans please? nothing's there.
Towa was unaffected by taking in the Dark Factor as shown above, so yesAnd has anyone other than Fu resisted the dark factor possession? Because this seems like a thing specific to him.
Dark Shenron was unable to nullify Mechikabura's power directly, due to his overwhelming power. The only way he could nullify Mechikabura was by an indirect loophole of giving Demigra the power to oppose him. It's still a resistance as Dark Shenron directly can't just null Mechikabura's powers on his own and had to resort in a loophole of giving Demigra the power to do soResistance to Power nullification: You do realize the same scan that shenron claims he can't do anything about mechi's powers, he literally undoes his mind control right? This doesn't exactly help your case on him having enhanced resistance when his powers are affected by the wishes.
Actually both Demigra and Dark Shenron can't null Mechikabura's power, not just Shenron, but then they figured out that increases Demigra ability to power null is the best way, and even then Demigra still struggling to null Mechikabura powerDark Shenron was unable to nullify Mechikabura's power directly, due to his overwhelming power. The only way he could nullify Mechikabura was by an indirect loophole of giving Demigra the power to oppose him. It's still a resistance as Dark Shenron directly can't just null Mechikabura's powers on his own and had to resort in a loophole of giving Demigra the power to do so
That's also trueActually both Demigra and Dark Shenron can't null Mechikabura's power, not just Shenron, but then they figured out that increases Demigra ability to power null is the best way, and even then Demigra still struggling to null Mechikabura power
Currently working but i want to address this argumentYou do realize that them having time powers doesn't mean they share everything together, especially when Chronoa is stated to only control time, and the Time Bird has control over time and space on top of it being able to create timelines with their eggs easily? The fact that Demigra wants this type of power despite apparently having time powers himself, or that Chronoa's shocked Fu wants to erase the universe's time with the time bird despite her sharing the same powers shows it doesn't cross scale to everyone who has any form of time powers and would just scale to the bird.
Simple, because their Time Power is far greater. Absorbing a Time Bird is literally one of the biggest amps in the entire series, so why exactly wouldn't they want the extra power boost. Also, why are you bringing up Fu's spacetime cutting power when Dark King Fu didn't even have Time Power at all. As for "Chronoa only controlling time" this is nitpicking, as one of Chronoa's main duties is to maintain entire timelines and even erase "false timelines" if necessary. Hell, she even contemplated on erasing the "unknown history" that was created by the Distorted Time Egg, where Trunks helps Gohan defeat the androids. And the whole reason why Agios comes back into the picture in the first place is because she's tired of Chronoa not doing her job properly and not erasing false timelines from existence. She's very clearly capable of affecting spacetimes.That still doesn't debunk my point on how the Time Bird is given such high status that in almost every major event in these games supposedly, that they need the time bird to do anything. Fu absorbing the time bird with the universe tree's power doesn't really help your case on this scaling to every time user when he needed a lot more than that despite having space time cutting powers with his sword. Chronoa being only able to control time and not all of time and space as demigra points out after voring the bird doesn't exactly help your point either that this all cross scales. If this was normal time users that can do this stuff on the fly then sure I can see the powers cross scaling, but I don't see this for most of the abilities, just stuff exclusive to the time bird and even the universe tree too.
I don't see what that other version of you could be other than an illusion.Doesn't world of mind control disprove illusions and perception in the first place as their mind is stuck unless they can beat this random clone? If you got statements that illusions are made and their senses get warped then sure, but that doesn't exactly help here.
And she also said and I quote "warriors that originally couldn't have existed end up drifting to this world." SS4 Bardock is someone who cannot normally exist in history. Period. Bardock normally in history either:She also said they ended up drifting to this world, so this implies it's just an alternate version of bardock that just got warped here thanks to the space time distortions. That doesn't exactly prove he rewrote fate or causality to make bardock go SSJ4. Just that he brought in another bardock here.
My bad. That is the dimension that Whis created which was stated to be the exact same as the Room of Spirit and Time which is a different dimension of time.No, I'm referring to the god ki stuff, where Whis warps Goku and Vegeta somewhere else. Not the demon/dark ki. The first scan just shows whis warping them somewhere else, nothing about him making a space time.
And this is relevant because.....? I don't recall Goku opening giant holes in space by powering up their kiEven though charging ki in dragon ball does this shit all the time? With Gohan and Goku and vegeta doing the same thing every single time they power up? Lifting buildings isn't reality warping unless you have any statements that demigra's presence did that.
Considering how she's not possessed by Mechikabura in the first place, it would imply she resists possession tooWhere does it imply she resisted it? She doesn't do the same thing Fu did where he lolnopes Mechi's power and takes it for himself instead of being overpowered.
No. First off, the very first thing he did when released, he invaded the Time Vault, effortlessly smacked Trunks and then just dipped. By your logic, Sealas could have just pulled of his plan right there and then since he supposedly could have just nuked the Scrolls in base alone, but he didn't, despite having the perfect opportunity to do so. Secondly, it was very clearly stated that Sealas needed that power to rewrite existence, by Trunks, Chronoa and Sealas himself. Lastly, you do realize that if Sealas could have just easily nuked the Scrolls in base, without Ahms' power, he could have done it every time the entire Time Patrol was distracted by spacetime distortions. There are literally several moments where Sealas could have just freely strolled to the Time Nest and completed his plans by your logic, as the Time Nest was left completely unguarded and the entire Time Patrol was distracted and dealing with other issues, but he didn't do so. Either Sealas is the dumbest villain in all of DB or he clearly can't just casually burn the scrolls as he had several perfect moments to just freely enter the Time Nest without opposition, but he didn't. The Time Scrolls clearly aren't some chain reaction bs, since Sealas clearly needs Ahms' power to burn them, and he didn't just go to the Time Nest literally every time he had the perfect opportunity to do so. The amount of plotholes your argument brings up is actually ridiculous. Why even create Ahms in the first place when he could just distract the Time Patrol with spacetime distortions (which he did) and just burn the scrolls while the TP are busy?Or, he just needs the power to beat everyone who protects the time scrolls in the first place? Cause he's going against Xeno Trunks, Vegeta, and anyone else who defends the time scrolls in order to get to said scrolls. Nothing about this implies he needs specific powers to erase the time scrolls at all. Just that he needs to beat the guys who oppose him to do it. And yes there is a chain reaction stuff, burning the time scrolls means the timelines they cover gets nuked. That's textbook definition of a chain reaction. He's not rewriting concepts or information to get through the time scrolls. He just wants to burn them and beat those who oppose him. And even then NOTHING about the blog for the time scrolls has any valid arguments for concepts and especially information when the argument is misrepresenting what the term record means.
Still working before coming home, but OwO already commented, so here is the scan for this argument of yourIt kinda does when her role is very specific compared to the time bird who sustains the entire space time continuum thanks to Demigra's statements of ruling over time and space. The burden of proof is on you that she controls both time and space, especially to the same extent as the time bird.