Deltarune: Chapter 5 (SPOILER!!) Discussion Thread

[God_of_perversion]

Well, I think Flowery's profile is ready now
If you guys have nothing else to add, I think I'll post it tomorrow

I haven't played chapter 5 yet, but wdym he is not a darkner?

 

[LittleGuy99]

I haven't played chapter 5 yet, but wdym he is not a darkner?

Spoilers! (No Joke): He's a plant, different from a Lightner or Darkner as mentioned in the game

 

[God_of_perversion]

Spoilers!: He's a plant, different from a Lightner or Darkner as mentioned in the game

You ain't catching me with those spoilers.
All I know about chapter 5 is "Flower man Flower man!" And chapter 7 side B

 

[LittleGuy99]

You ain't catching me with those spoilers.
All I know about chapter 5 is "Flower man Flower man!" And chapter 7 side B

Well, I hope you enjoy playing the game when you get the chance, this Chapter is Peak

 

[Ti58]

Well, I think Flowery's profile is ready now
If you guys have nothing else to add, I think I'll post it tomorrow

You're missing a lot of ablities for Omega Flowery due to him being a fusion of the 7 flowers.

 

[LittleGuy99]

You're missing a lot of ablities for Omega Flowery due to him being a fusion of the 7 flowers.

Yes and no.

Should have all the Powers and Abilities of the six flowers, which are: Aqua, Seth, Orange, Green, Blue and Yellow

I don't have to list them, either. That is a task for their respective profiles.
I'm lucky Flowery doesn't use those powers in-character—at least not against Kris.

 

[Ti58]

Yes and no.

I don't have to list them, either. That is a task for their respective profiles.
I'm lucky Flowery doesn't use those powers in-character—at least not against Kris.

Don't we list every monster ability on the GoH Asriel page too though?

 

[Ti58]

Well, I think Flowery's profile is ready now
If you guys have nothing else to add, I think I'll post it tomorrow

Do we actually have any evidence he made himself faster with Subjective Reality and that he just isn't that fast? It's not like speed is an actual Stat in-game like AT and DF are.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Do we actually have any evidence he made himself faster with Subjective Reality and that he just isn't that fast? It's not like speed is an actual Stat in-game like AT and DF are.

If he can max out Romance, which isn't even a real stat to begin with, then why can't the same reasoning be applied to Speed? Especially when the guy explicitly states that no one can “outspeed” a flower, pretty sure he maxed that out as well.

I mean, this isn't the first instances where he completely create a made up thing. RALSEIs for one example.

 

[Zyurtunder13]

Well, I think Flowery's profile is ready now
If you guys have nothing else to add, I think I'll post it tomorrow

What's the difference with the deleted rushed profile? Did people here actually come to a consensus of what his abilities and scaling truly are? You're literally just going to post the same rushed profile again

 

[Ti58]

If he can max out Romance, which isn't even a real stat to begin with, then why can't the same reasoning be applied to Speed? Especially when the guy explicitly states that no one can “outspeed” a flower, pretty sure he maxed that out as well.

I mean, this isn't the first instances where he completely create a made up thing. RALSEIs for one example.

Yes, but we have proof that he created a stat called Romance and maxed it out, but we have no proof he changed the Speed stat. He also very much gets proven wrong due to the Roaring Knight being able to outspeed him, plus I don't think him saying no one can outspeed him is actually evidence he changed his speed.

There's also the Knight being unable to ignore his speed (while being able to ignore other fake stats), but how would that even work? So I don't think this is an argument.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

What's the difference with the deleted rushed profile? Did people here actually come to a consensus of what his abilities and scaling truly are? You're literally just going to post the same rushed profile again

Lad posted the sandbox in the Discussion Thread two weeks ago and changed everything we brought up in our feedback, not sure what more you want from the guy.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

What's the difference with the deleted rushed profile? Did people here actually come to a consensus of what his abilities and scaling truly are? You're literally just going to post the same rushed profile again

Most people here have already shared their thoughts on the profile. Though, if you genuinely think it's missing something, feel free to reply to them in the most respectful manner possible. The guy haven't even post the profile, after all.

 

[Zyurtunder13]

Most people here have already shared their thoughts on the profile. Though, if you genuinely think it's missing something, feel free to reply to them in the most respectful manner possible. The guy haven't even post the profile, after all.

I just believe that it shouldn't be posted at all untill it's truly done and there's a genuine consensus of what Flowery's abilities, scaling and limits are

 

[Edutyn]

Well, I think Flowery's profile is ready now
If you guys have nothing else to add, I think I'll post it tomorrow

Personally, I'd add that an exhausted Flowery was able, for a moment, to blitz the knight. And that he can dodge the knight

edit: I think his range should be Kilomters insted of Hundread of Meters

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Yes, but we have proof that he created a stat called Romance and maxed it out, but we have no proof he changed the Speed stat. He also very much gets proven wrong due to the Roaring Knight being able to outspeed him, plus I don't think him saying no one can outspeed him is actually evidence he changed his speed.

So, Flowery can max out Romance, which isn't even a real stat, but when it comes to Speed, which is about as basic as it gets, he suddenly doesn't max that out? Idk... that just seems kind of dumb on his part.

There's also the Knight being unable to ignore his speed (while being able to ignore other fake stats), but how would that even work? So I don't think this is an argument.

You're right, this isn't an argument. It's because the Knight just simply... didn't know Flowery has fake stat at that moment.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

I just believe that it shouldn't be posted at all untill it's truly done and there's a genuine consensus of what Flowery's abilities, scaling and limits are

If we're trying to account for every minuscule detail before posting the profile, then there probably wouldn't be a profile at all. Most of what's on the profile already captures what Flowery can do. The remaining details can always be added later if there's a genuine case for them. And like I said, you can still give suggestions anyway, since the profile hasn't even been posted yet.

 

[Zyurtunder13]

If we're trying to account for every minuscule detail before posting the profile, then there probably wouldn't be a profile at all. Most of what's on the profile already captures what Flowery can do. The remaining details can always be added later if there's a genuine case for them. And like I said, you can still give suggestions anyway, since the profile hasn't even been posted yet.

So just post rushed shit and pray for CRTs to fix it later? That's dumb

 

[Zyurtunder13]

According to the sandbox Omega Flowery suddenly became seven times stronger than his normal state, like yes, he obviously became stronger, but seven times? That's never implied anywhere in the game, his performance is barely better than before, also you have to take into account that he borrowed strength from his recruits in his "base" battle too, so what truly is his scaling here...

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Even then, how do we know for sure that Speed isn't an actual stat? There have already been instances where the soul's movement speed can be increased or decreased through certain ACTs. Sure, it's unquantifiable, but it's still a speed increase nonetheless.

Especially when you look at Undertale, where SPEED is literally an actual stat despite not being shown in the information menu. That stat could very well exist in Deltarune as well (given the connection explained in the cosmology blog, though I won't get into that here). Just like in Undertale, it may simply exist without being visually displayed.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

So just post rushed shit and pray for CRTs to fix it later? That's dumb

Look, man, almost everybody here has already shared their thoughts, and the thread has been silent for days. If you have any complaints or suggestions that are genuinely meaningful to the profile, you're free to share them btw.

According to the sandbox Omega Flowery suddenly became seven times stronger than his normal state, like yes, he obviously became stronger, but seven times? That's never implied anywhere in the game, his performance is barely better than before, also you have to take into account that he borrowed strength from his recruits in his "base" battle too, so what truly is his scaling here...

Then what are you suggesting? Seriously, all this ranting without solution isn't really helping. Even then, the scaling is only for Striking Strength as far as I can see, and it's relatively reasonable considering it's literally just a multiplier from a combined attack.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

According to the sandbox Omega Flowery suddenly became seven times stronger than his normal state, like yes, he obviously became stronger, but seven times? That's never implied anywhere in the game, his performance is barely better than before

I mean, he literally says "with your powers combined!" and we like always treat fusions as at least multiplicative buffs.
Back when Omega Flowey wasn't Tier 2 we also just had his AP as x6 human SOUL AP.

 

[Zyurtunder13]

I mean, he literally says "with your powers combined!" and we like always treat fusions as at least multiplicative buffs.
Back when Omega Flowey wasn't Tier 2 we also just had his AP as x6 human SOUL AP.

True, is that also why he was matched by the same person that he was already damaging in his "base" before? He became stronger but seven times? That's definitely not what happened in the fight, heck what is his base truly here, because he also absorbed the strength of his recruits before going Omega, so what's his scaling here?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

True, is that also why he was matched by the same person that he was already damaging in his "base" before? He became stronger but seven times? That's definitely not what happened in the fight, heck what is his base truly here, because he also absorbed the strength of his recruits before going Omega, so what's his scaling here?

We already know Kris holds back a lot. They can even outdamage Rude Buster on the Sword Route. Plus if we end up going purely by damage numbers, Omega Flowery ends up weaker than his base so ???

And if you don't buy the idea that Kris is holding back, there's Ig the whole stuff on Flowery being so hesitant to fight us in the first place.

The RECRUITs amp also doesn't matter much given Flowery's base is already on par with Yellow, and all the Flowers scale to us with no amp.

 

[Zyurtunder13]

We already know Kris holds back a lot. They can even outdamage Rude Buster on the Sword Route. Plus if we end up going purely by damage numbers, Omega Flowery ends up weaker than his base so ???

And if you don't buy the idea that Kris is holding back, there's Ig the whole stuff on Flowery being so hesitant to fight us in the first place.

The RECRUITs amp also doesn't matter much given Flowery's base is already on par with Yellow, and all the Flowers scale to us with no amp.

I never bring up damage numbers, so what's your point here? Also the recruits amp have to be taken into consideration here, what's his base here?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I never bring up damage numbers, so what's your point here?

I don't see what "his performance is barely better than before" would have been referring to then.

Also the recruits amp have to be taken into consideration here, what's his base here?

His base is also 7-B cause Yellow is his sparring partner, like base Flowery and RECRUITs Flowery scale to the same thing.

 

[Zyurtunder13]

I don't see what "his performance is barely better than before" would have been referring to then.

I mean that his performance doesn't really correlate to a seven times multiplier on both AP and Durability

His base is also 7-B cause Yellow is his sparring partner, like base Flowery and RECRUITs Flowery scale to the same thing.

I know that he scales to Yellow, but then how strong is he supposed to be in his boss fight then? Because he did absorb the strength of his recruits

 

[Ti58]

According to the sandbox Omega Flowery suddenly became seven times stronger than his normal state, like yes, he obviously became stronger, but seven times? That's never implied anywhere in the game, his performance is barely better than before, also you have to take into account that he borrowed strength from his recruits in his "base" battle too, so what truly is his scaling here...

Every Flower scales to the Titan

This makes Omega Flowery 7x baseline city level due to him being a fusion of the 7 flowers.

 

[God_of_perversion]

Every Flower scales to the Titan

This makes Omega Flowery 7x baseline city level due to him being a fusion of the 7 flowers.

Aight man, even some one who hasn't played the chapter (like me) knows that this isn't valid
We are just doing too much at this point

 

[Ti58]

Aight man, even some one who hasn't played the chapter (like me) knows that this isn't valid
We are just doing too much at this point

Ngl I feel like you shouldnt really look at spoilers here

 

[God_of_perversion]

Ngl I feel like you shouldnt really look at spoilers here

I have been dodging them like Bullets.
Only the flowery fight and snowgrave + Susie ruining our date options are know by me

 

[Ti58]

Aight man, even some one who hasn't played the chapter (like me) knows that this isn't valid
We are just doing too much at this point

Also why is this not valid anyway

 

[God_of_perversion]

Also why is this not valid anyway

Wasn't it agreed that we Downscale from the Titans? one can be 7× weaker and still downscale from a feat.
It would also mean that Kris matched and overpowered the strength of Seven titans at once. Don't get me wrong, it is clear that Kris has never used his full power in game, but it is kinda crazy to upscale Kris that high without more feats to validate it

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Wasn't it agreed that we Downscale from the Titans? one can be 7× weaker and still downscale from a feat.
It would also mean that Kris matched and overpowered the strength of Seven titans at once. Don't get me wrong, it is clear that Kris has never used his full power in game, but it is kinda crazy to upscale Kris that high without more feats to validate it

Titans have been power cliffed yo
Also like the Titan is baseline 7-B, pretty sure we're already fully scaling the Fun Gang to them

 

[Tarcaver]

Alright fess up

When are the 1-A buff threads coming?

 

[Ti58]

Wasn't it agreed that we Downscale from the Titans? one can be 7× weaker and still downscale from a feat.
It would also mean that Kris matched and overpowered the strength of Seven titans at once. Don't get me wrong, it is clear that Kris has never used his full power in game, but it is kinda crazy to upscale Kris that high without more feats to validate it

When was it agreed that they Downscale from the Titan? What?

Omega Flowery is still a fusion of the 7 Flowers, so even then he'd still significantly upscale from a Titan.

The Fun Gang does also get stronger overtime too tbf.

 

[Ti58]

Alright fess up

When are the 1-A buff threads coming?

Always bet on 1-A Deltarune after Chapter 7

 

[God_of_perversion]

When was it agreed that they Downscale from the Titan? What?

Titans scaling to baseline 7-B (7-A now i guess) and the chapter 4 fun gang being clearly weaker than them?

 

[Ti58]

Titans scaling to baseline 7-B (7-A now i guess) and the chapter 4 fun gang being clearly weaker than them?

Is the Titan actually clearly stronger than the Ch4 Fun Gang though? The reason it's hard to defeat is because of its incredibly high DF of 800, but the Fun Gang can pretty clearly tank attacks from it.