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Deltarune: Chapter 5 (SPOILER!!) Discussion Thread

Have we considered that the reason Flowery didn’t use his fake statistics against the Gang isn’t because he didn’t want to, but because he couldn’t? I saw an idea from someone elsewhere theorising if he can only give himself maximum stats if he’s in the role of a player character and not a boss. Idk how logical that is (and I don’t think it really matters for battleboarding purposes) but it’s an interesting thought.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Have we considered that the reason Flowery didn’t use his fake statistics against the Gang isn’t because he didn’t want to, but because he couldn’t? I saw an idea from someone elsewhere theorising if he can only give himself maximum stats if he’s in the role of a player character and not a boss. Idk how logical that is (and I don’t think it really matters for battleboarding purposes) but it’s an interesting thought.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this make sense.

Flowery also needs Floradin to start a battle with the Knight. For whatever reason, it seems that only a Lightner can initiate one that is the player-like. That's probably why he needs Floradin in the first place, it would create a chain reaction and forces the Knight to become involved.
 
Randomuser3412 said:
Y'know, the Knight, when clashing with Flowery, was holding their sword up next to their right shoulder and swinging downwards. When Flowery is cut in half, though, the slice comes from the left, going upwards, the opposite direction the Knight was swinging from... what?
Click to expand...
They can summon flying swords, so I figured they just cut Flowery down while he was still blocking the Black Knife.
 
Just finished Chapter 5. Gotta say, this was surprisingly a hard chapter given how I've actually died against the final boss more times than I've died to the Titan in Chapter 4 (0 times).

And... Flowery's theme literally reminds me of the Full House theme song for some reason.
 
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Ghengiroo115 said:
Have we considered that the reason Flowery didn’t use his fake statistics against the Gang isn’t because he didn’t want to, but because he couldn’t? I saw an idea from someone elsewhere theorising if he can only give himself maximum stats if he’s in the role of a player character and not a boss. Idk how logical that is (and I don’t think it really matters for battleboarding purposes) but it’s an interesting thought.
Click to expand...

Personally, I think he was never actually willing to use his fake stats against the gang. Throughout the chapter, he helps (in his own way) the Fun Gang overcome obstacles, he cares about them (if they lose to enemies, he takes them to a special room so they can rest in beds), and during their fight, he doesn’t kill us—he simply takes us to a back area (losing many times causes the damage to decrease, so it’s implied that he’s holding back). In his Omega form, if you don’t fail the QTE, he hesitates to counterattack; if you fail the QTE, he doesn’t revert to his normal form but still hesitates to attack Kris.

Honestly, I feel like the battle against Flowery is more of a battle of ideals and a strange way for him to see if the Fun Gang HAS the determination to face enemies who are far more powerful (even if that means destroying others’ fantasies). Flowery could have used a thousand and one ways to prevent the Gang from approaching the castle or to simply kick them out of the Dark World (he is way faster and stronger than them), but he didn’t want to, since he knows that even if he wins, they’ll die from carelessness.

I feel like Flowery wanted to show the Gang that sometimes it’s okay to break the rules and understand that it’s not always a fight between good and evil, but between ideals that aren’t entirely opposed (Asgore’s fantasy vs. Fun Gang’s fantasy).

I'm not sure if I expressed myself clearly, so I apologize for any misunderstanding.
 
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Maybe Noelle should have held her horses on the Weird Route: "Enough, Kris! I don't need a trial to expose the truth! We've watched you since you were a child... And I know that you've CHANGED!" -Flowery
 
Da3ggman said:


Why is this guy cooking…..
Click to expand...

4486a5ebe350.png
 
Evaluated
Need Evaluation

AP:
Susie throws Tenna: 107572 joules (Wall level)
Jevil drops a giant scythe: 207806.374362 J (Wall level)
Susie & Kris Fall: 284475 joules (Wall Level)
Susie destroy toilet: 484840 joules (Wall level)
Ralsei hates darkners: 1433405J (Wall Level)
Susie carries Tenna: 4495410 joules (Wall Level)
Tasque manager returns back her whip: 0.004 tonnes of TNT (Wall Level)
Golden Tenna is kicked: 0.00598707656 Tons of TNT (Small Building Level)
Spamton Neo GPE: 0.02140910457 tons of tnt to 0.03167987091 tons of tnt (Small Building Level)
The Gang slams into a door: 0.061 tonnes (Small Building Level)
The Weather Duo Temparature Feats: 0.02722124582 Tons of TNT (Small Building Level) & 0.09241312608 Tons of TNT (Small Building Level)
Giga Queen PE: 0.028 Tons of TNT (Building Level to 0.2691189306 Tons of TNT (Large Building Level)
Spamton Neo Explosion: 0.15 Tons (Small Building Level)
Tasque manager swings it incredibly fast: 0.328 tonnes of TNT(Building Level)
Baseball PE: 1.01502071142 Tons of TNT (Building Level)
Giga Queen has mad hops: 2.82016951411 Tons of TNT (Large Buiding Level)
Titan Fist: 3.03 tonnes of TNT (Large Building Level)
Thrash Machine punches a baseball: 6.4681948663 Tons of TNT (Large Building Level)
Detatchable Hands KE: 4.94373372693 MJ up to 6.96338152094 Tons of TNT (Wall Level to Large Building Level)
A cat ball: 127,72003207 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block Level)
Mike's PC Final Attack: 142.05 tonnes of TNT (Multi-City Block Level)
Mike's Switch Final Attack: 166 tonnes of TNT (Multi-City Block Level)
Mike's PC Final Attack 2: 626.10413327 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block Level+)
A Fox becomes THE SUN: 865.132239176 Tons of TNT to 15.2199151436 Megatons (Multi-City Block Level+ to City Level)
Gerson is fast: 0.4 tonnes of TNT to 4.944 kilotons (Building Level to Small Town Level+)
Tenna's Weather Report: 910.1375932 Tons Of TNT up to 347.95797 Kilotons (Multi-City Block Level+ up to Large Town Level)
Miss Mizzle creates a storm: 3.3644010516252 Megatons (Small City Level)
Flowery Moves the "SUN": 94.7163738823 Megatons to 398.8374459963 Petatons (City Level+ to Multi-Continental Level)

Speed:
Golden Tenna is kicked: 28.9330285714m/s (Superhuman)
Rudinn dashes off: 20.9004444445 m/s up to 104.502222222 m/s (Superhuman to Subsonic)
Thrash Machine punches a baseball: 135.1268572 m/s (Subsonic)
Spamton Neo Explosion: 144.658064516m/s (Subsonic))
Giga Queen has mad hops: 150.7757143 m/s (Subsonic)
Shadowguy dashes off: 28.2249305555 m/s up to 169.349583333 m/s (Superhuman to Subsonic)
Jevil Final Chaos Speed: 335.900000001 m/s (Transonic)
A Fox becomes THE SUN: 58.92421875m/s to Mach 1.21357231393 (Subsonic to Supersonic)
Knight sword slash speed: Mach 1.4664003415 (Supersonic)
Spamton Neo can make his hands into phones: Mach 1.66 (Supersonic)
Tasque manager returns back her whip: Mach 2.94 (Supersonic+)
The justice hits hard: Mach 5.0749089039 (Hypersonic)
Mics, Cats & SOUL Check: Mach 8.5 (Hypersonic) | Mach 3.41666666667 (Supersonic+) | Mach 7 (Hypersonic)
A cat ball: Mach 8.55555555556 (Hypersonic)
Detatchable Hands KE: 43.64560153 m/s to Mach 9.768429826 (Subsonic to Hypersonic)
Mike's Switch Final Attack: Mach 16.9 (Hypersonic+)
Tasque manager swings it incredibly fast: Mach 25.2 (High Hypersonic)
Mike's PC Final Attack: Mach 33 (High Hypersonic)
Mike's PC Final Attack 2: Mach 40 (High Hypersonic)
Cat Big Paw: Mach 79.8 (High Hypersonic+)
The cats are fast: Mach 216.4 (Massively Hypersonic)
Flowery Moves the "SUN": Mach 3.00987491771 to Mach 253.17605042 (Supersonic+ to Massively Hypersonic)
Gerson is fast: Mach 2.78 to Mach 308.3 (Supersonic to Massively Hypersonic)
Tenna's Smash Cut: 447.866666667 m/s to Mach 324.198250729 (Supersonic to Massively Hypersonic) (?)
Flowery moves REALLY fast: Mach 48.4330012324 to Mach 1892.36938013 (High Hypersonic to Massively Hypersonic+)


LS:
Kris throws SOUL: 1.5 tonnes (Class 5)
Susie throws Tenna: 302 tonnes (Class K)
Spamton Neo GPE: 633,218.627296 kg to 849,556.67565 kg (Class K)
Golden Tenna is kicked: 1513.4205363 Tons (Class M)
Giga Spamton is pushed: 4278.43879792 Tons to 5740.16001022 Tons (Class M)
Spamton Neo can make his hands into phones: 20860 tons (Class M)
Tasque manager returns back her whip: 28993 tons (Class M)
Tasque manager swings it incredibly fast: 384982 tons (Class M)
Giga Queen has mad hops: 478,649.6414 Tons (Class M)
A cat ball: 159066953.35 Tons (Class G)
Mike's PC Final Attack: 204.24 million tons of force (Class G)
Mike's PC Final Attack 2: 270564838.768 tons (Class G)
A Fox becomes THE SUN: 2085050132.9kg to 735045701956kg (Class G)
Gerson is fast: 102858 tons of force to 1.27 billion tons of force (Class M to Class T)
Flowery Moves the "SUN": 2.3484929e+15kgf to 1.1756714e+23kgf (Class P to Class Z)
 
Edutyn said:
Evaluated
Need Evaluation

AP:
Susie throws Tenna: 107572 joules (Wall level)
Jevil drops a giant scythe: 207806.374362 J (Wall level)
Susie & Kris Fall: 284475 joules (Wall Level)
Susie destroy toilet: 484840 joules (Wall level)
Ralsei hates darkners: 1433405J (Wall Level)
Susie carries Tenna: 4495410 joules (Wall Level)
Tasque manager returns back her whip: 0.004 tonnes of TNT (Wall Level)
Golden Tenna is kicked: 0.00598707656 Tons of TNT (Small Building Level)
Spamton Neo GPE: 0.02140910457 tons of tnt to 0.03167987091 tons of tnt (Small Building Level)
The Gang slams into a door: 0.061 tonnes (Small Building Level)
The Weather Duo Temparature Feats: 0.02722124582 Tons of TNT (Small Building Level) & 0.09241312608 Tons of TNT (Small Building Level)
Giga Queen PE: 0.028 Tons of TNT (Building Level to 0.2691189306 Tons of TNT (Large Building Level)
Spamton Neo Explosion: 0.15 Tons (Small Building Level)
Tasque manager swings it incredibly fast: 0.328 tonnes of TNT(Building Level)
Baseball PE: 1.01502071142 Tons of TNT (Building Level)
Giga Queen has mad hops: 2.82016951411 Tons of TNT (Large Buiding Level)
Titan Fist: 3.03 tonnes of TNT (Large Building Level)
Thrash Machine punches a baseball: 6.4681948663 Tons of TNT (Large Building Level)
Detatchable Hands KE: 4.94373372693 MJ up to 6.96338152094 Tons of TNT (Wall Level to Large Building Level)
A cat ball: 127,72003207 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block Level)
Mike's PC Final Attack: 142.05 tonnes of TNT (Multi-City Block Level)
Mike's Switch Final Attack: 166 tonnes of TNT (Multi-City Block Level)
Mike's PC Final Attack 2: 626.10413327 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block Level+)
A Fox becomes THE SUN: 865.132239176 Tons of TNT to 15.2199151436 Megatons (Multi-City Block Level+ to City Level)
Gerson is fast: 0.4 tonnes of TNT to 4.944 kilotons (Building Level to Small Town Level+)
Tenna's Weather Report: 910.1375932 Tons Of TNT up to 347.95797 Kilotons (Multi-City Block Level+ up to Large Town Level)
Miss Mizzle creates a storm: 3.3644010516252 Megatons (Small City Level)
Flowery Moves the "SUN": 94.7163738823 Megatons to 398.8374459963 Petatons (City Level+ to Multi-Continental Level)

Speed:
Golden Tenna is kicked: 28.9330285714m/s (Superhuman)
Rudinn dashes off: 20.9004444445 m/s up to 104.502222222 m/s (Superhuman to Subsonic)
Thrash Machine punches a baseball: 135.1268572 m/s (Subsonic)
Spamton Neo Explosion: 144.658064516m/s (Subsonic))
Giga Queen has mad hops: 150.7757143 m/s (Subsonic)
Shadowguy dashes off: 28.2249305555 m/s up to 169.349583333 m/s (Superhuman to Subsonic)
Jevil Final Chaos Speed: 335.900000001 m/s (Transonic)
A Fox becomes THE SUN: 58.92421875m/s to Mach 1.21357231393 (Subsonic to Supersonic)
Knight sword slash speed: Mach 1.4664003415 (Supersonic)
Spamton Neo can make his hands into phones: Mach 1.66 (Supersonic)
Tasque manager returns back her whip: Mach 2.94 (Supersonic+)
The justice hits hard: Mach 5.0749089039 (Hypersonic)
Mics, Cats & SOUL Check: Mach 8.5 (Hypersonic) | Mach 3.41666666667 (Supersonic+) | Mach 7 (Hypersonic)
A cat ball: Mach 8.55555555556 (Hypersonic)
Detatchable Hands KE: 43.64560153 m/s to Mach 9.768429826 (Subsonic to Hypersonic)
Mike's Switch Final Attack: Mach 16.9 (Hypersonic+)
Tasque manager swings it incredibly fast: Mach 25.2 (High Hypersonic)
Mike's PC Final Attack: Mach 33 (High Hypersonic)
Mike's PC Final Attack 2: Mach 40 (High Hypersonic)
Cat Big Paw: Mach 79.8 (High Hypersonic+)
The cats are fast: Mach 216.4 (Massively Hypersonic)
Flowery Moves the "SUN": Mach 3.00987491771 to Mach 253.17605042 (Supersonic+ to Massively Hypersonic)
Gerson is fast: Mach 2.78 to Mach 308.3 (Supersonic to Massively Hypersonic)
Tenna's Smash Cut: 447.866666667 m/s to Mach 324.198250729 (Supersonic to Massively Hypersonic) (?)
Flowery moves REALLY fast: Mach 48.4330012324 to Mach 1892.36938013 (High Hypersonic to Massively Hypersonic+)


LS:
Kris throws SOUL: 1.5 tonnes (Class 5)
Susie throws Tenna: 302 tonnes (Class K)
Spamton Neo GPE: 633,218.627296 kg to 849,556.67565 kg (Class K)
Golden Tenna is kicked: 1513.4205363 Tons (Class M)
Giga Spamton is pushed: 4278.43879792 Tons to 5740.16001022 Tons (Class M)
Spamton Neo can make his hands into phones: 20860 tons (Class M)
Tasque manager returns back her whip: 28993 tons (Class M)
Tasque manager swings it incredibly fast: 384982 tons (Class M)
Giga Queen has mad hops: 478,649.6414 Tons (Class M)
A cat ball: 159066953.35 Tons (Class G)
Mike's PC Final Attack: 204.24 million tons of force (Class G)
Mike's PC Final Attack 2: 270564838.768 tons (Class G)
A Fox becomes THE SUN: 2085050132.9kg to 735045701956kg (Class G)
Gerson is fast: 102858 tons of force to 1.27 billion tons of force (Class M to Class T)
Flowery Moves the "SUN": 2.3484929e+15kgf to 1.1756714e+23kgf (Class P to Class Z)
Click to expand...
Hey about my sun size calc, there's a 174.88km distance of the sun to the cliffs, which means the dark world is also that large

How would it be calced to creation a biome with mountains like that being larger than islands? Would it be just baseline island level?
 
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