General DC Comics Discussion Thread

[Elizio33]

No, Prime and black is more fourth wall with Dan Mora's to do list written in Espanol and a DC Comics Border with Handwriting of Page Number, issue, and a drawing sketch.

Animal Man or Infinite Frontier dont have this fourth wall element and just a pure blank white without DC Border and number of page or author's note.

This white emptiness was indirectly referred to as a comic book page.

"IF WE COULD MOVE OUTSIDE OUR WORLD, OUTSIDE OUR SPACETIME CONTINUUM, THIS IS WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE. LIKE A COMIC BOOK. LIKE DRAWINGS ON A PAGE. EVERY TIME SOMEONE READS OUR STORIES, WE LIVE AGAIN."

It represents a middle ground between Comic Book Limbo and reality.

"THAT LIGHT REPRESENTS THE MIDDLE GROUND BETWEEN REALITY AND THE HIGHER WORLD OUT OF WHICH WE ARE UNFOLDED."

 

[AcidSilver]

 

[Eseseso]

Btw, shouldn't Perpetua have a bunch of hax from controlling the 7 natural and 7 unnatural forces of the multiverse? That includes the collective unconscious, speed force, EES, and Sphere of the Gods, all of which have conceptual stuff IIRC and whatnot.

 

[KirbyFan03]

Btw, shouldn't Perpetua have a bunch of hax from controlling the 7 natural and 7 unnatural forces of the multiverse? That includes the collective unconscious, speed force, EES, and Sphere of the Gods, all of which have conceptual stuff IIRC and whatnot.

Yes

 

[Antvasima]

That seems reasonable, yes.

 

[Eseseso]

Honestly, I feel like there is a good bit of hax low key missing from her profile, but I'm not a DC expert.

 

[Frankky123]

Honestly, I feel like there is a good bit of hax low key missing from her profile, but I'm not a DC expert.

What hax

 

[Frankky123]

What do you think of the updated profile for Superboy Prime, I have made a number of changes:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PromptedElephant641/Revised_Superboy_Prime_Profile - This is the normal one without any of the stuff from Confluctor's version.

ptedElephant641/Confluctor%27s_Superboy_Prime_from_All_Fiction_Battles - This one has the powers and abilities from Confluctor's version added to it.

I don't think that any of Confluctor's justifications for durability, stamina, speed, and range need to be added as they are very clunky and excessive. So I think that what I have there is enough. I also disagree with a number of his justifications. I reformatted and consolidated his powers and abilities.

How you interpret this, i want to put it at his plot manipulation. But many people said its just his vision, but i think its more like prime lost control and kill ignition and he undo the reality into sketch, because it has some meta comic border at the edge, while the true vision like here doesnt have that border.

 

[PromptedElephant641]

The new Perpetua Profile:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PromptedElephant641/Revised_Perpetua_Profile

She definitely needs a lot more powers and abilities but I am not in the mood to do that at the moment.

I have read through Death Metal more times now than any human should ever have to. Once is more than enough as is. It is even more edgy than I remember it being. My Bat content over saturation index is completely overloaded.

 

[Eseseso]

The new Perpetua Profile:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PromptedElephant641/Revised_Perpetua_Profile

Good work!

She definitely needs a lot more powers and abilities but I am not in the mood to do that at the moment.

I have read through Death Metal more times now than any human should ever have to. Once is more than enough as is. It is even more edgy than I remember it being. My Bat content over saturation index is completely overloaded.

Lol I feel like the only person who liked the Death Metal finale (even if the Robin King sucked).

What hax

Asides from the 7 natural and 7 unnatural forces, probably some immortalities, Acausalities, and resistances. Same goes for the Hands as a whole.

 

[Eseseso]

 

[KirbyFan03]

Good work!

Lol I feel like the only person who liked the Death Metal finale (even if the Robin King sucked).


Asides from the 7 natural and 7 unnatural forces, probably some immortalities, Acausalities, and resistances. Same goes for the Hands as a whole.

Death Metal was a boys finale rating at best

 

[Elizio33]

The new Perpetua Profile:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PromptedElephant641/Revised_Perpetua_Profile

She definitely needs a lot more powers and abilities but I am not in the mood to do that at the moment.

I have read through Death Metal more times now than any human should ever have to. Once is more than enough as is. It is even more edgy than I remember it being. My Bat content over saturation index is completely overloaded.

Good work ! She also needs the Hand of Creation as picture for her true state since the current one represents her corporeal form.

 

[TheBestBoi]

just a question, since superman is currently 2-A, is him destroying the world forger's multiverse still an outlier? that's one of his notes on his page but that was before he was upgraded to 2-A

 

[Ozcantabak]

just a question, since superman is currently 2-A, is him destroying the world forger's multiverse still an outlier? that's one of his notes on his page but that was before he was upgraded to 2-A

Him destroying world forger's multiverse, or one shotting him in his true form isn't an outlier, the wiki doesn't list it cause Superman was amped by Mxy and multiple suns.

 

[TheBestBoi]

Him destroying world forger's multiverse, or one shotting him in his true form isn't an outlier, the wiki doesn't list it cause Superman was amped by Mxy and multiple suns.

he wasn't amped by mxy though? that was a lie and got tricked into entereing a wasteland

 

[Ozcantabak]

he wasn't amped by mxy though? that was a lie and got tricked into entereing a wasteland

It probably was a lie, but our current profiles accept that as a mxy amp.

 

[Elizio33]

I recently had a conversation with a friend about the “Omniverse” and the “Greater Omniverse,” and some of his arguments were genuinely interesting. I am not necessarily jumping to conclusions or assuming anything, but I wanted to share the idea and hear other perspectives on it.

His main argument was that the Omniverse and the Greater Omniverse are actually the same structure.

By the end of Dark Nights: Death Metal, the Hands restored the Local Multiverse and time itself was “unknotted,” healing and reintegrating the forgotten histories erased or fractured by previous Crises. The narrative seemed to imply that the Multiverse had expanded into its own Omniverse, which led many readers to believe that there were now effectively two “Omniverses”: the Greater Omniverse introduced by Scott Snyder and the restored Infinite Frontier cosmology.

However, Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths complicated this understanding when Lex Luthor stated: “The idea of the Omniverse is false.” At the time, the line was largely dismissed because it was vague and never directly elaborated upon. Furthermore, Flashpoint Beyond, which followed Dark Crisis, appeared to reaffirm the existence of the Omniverse rather than deny it.

But perhaps Lex was not claiming that the Omniverse itself does not exist. Rather, the implication may have been that our understanding of it is flawed.

The common interpretation during Death Metal was that the Omniverse represented a collection of Multiverses existing directly within the Overvoid itself, which more acted as a medium between them rather than the non-dual and fundamental ground of reality as Grant Morrison intended. Yet Flashpoint Beyond introduced the concept of the Divine Continuum, a larger metaphysical model divided into two complementary halves: the Omniverse, representing all spatial existence, and Hypertime, representing all temporal possibility and divergence.

Under this interpretation, the Omniverse is not the absolute totality beyond all existence, but rather one half of Creation itself, the spatial aspect of a greater continuum. In other words, what we perceived as the “Greater Omniverse” may still exist within a wider totality rather than being equivalent to the true Overvoid or ultimate reality. Under this interpretation, The Hands would effectively descend from The Overvoid/The Source, into the Omniverse in order to shape and oversee the formation of Multiverses. In that context, the “Void” described by Wally West in Dark Nights: Death Metal #1 would not necessarily be the absolute Overvoid itself, but rather The Light in its purest manifest form: the immaculate perfection that emerged from the Great Darkness at the dawn of creation, resembling an infinite white void as portrayed in Justice League Incarnate #4.

 

[TheBestBoi]

the author intent was that superman destroyed the multiverse theimaginaryaxis confirms this too since he's the one who interviewed scott snyder before.

Scott snyder literally confirms this too

 

[PromptedElephant641]

The feat in the Sixth Dimension does not count. There were numerous mechanisms behind it. First of all the only reason why Mr Mxyzptlk could even access the Sixth Dimension was because of the damage to the Source Wall and it still took all of his energy. Second of all, Superman was amped by many suns while in the Sixth Dimension. Thirdly he simply knocks The World Forger over before he could reset the multiverse with his hammer and anvil. These feats take place in the Sixth Dimension where all of the characters "pitch and frequency" (as described by Grant Morrison) have been altered to exist in this realm. This feat is not used on his profile as it is merely a once off set of circumstances.

 

[TheBestBoi]

The feat in the Sixth Dimension does not count. There were numerous mechanisms behind it. First of all the only reason why Mr Mxyzptlk could even access the Sixth Dimension was because of the damage to the Source Wall and it still took all of his energy. Second of all, Superman was amped by many suns while in the Sixth Dimension. Thirdly he simply knocks The World Forger over before he could reset the multiverse with his hammer and anvil. These feats take place in the Sixth Dimension where all of the characters "pitch and frequency" (as described by Grant Morrison) have been altered to exist in this realm. This feat is not used on his profile as it is nearly a once off set of circumstances.

but destroying a multiverse is still a 2-A right? and current superman is listed as 2-A, it would be in his capability to do so

 

[Ozcantabak]

but destroying a multiverse is still a 2-A right? and current superman is listed as 2-A, it would be in his capability to do so

That is high 1-A feat not 2-A feat cause he also knocks World Forger.

 

[PromptedElephant641]

You could rightly say that Superman is 2A in normal space, but while altered in pitch, scale, and frequency to exist in the Sixth Dimension, he is 2A RELATIVE to BASELINE Sixth Dimensional; however, this would cause far too much confusion if this was put on his profile.

 

[Eseseso]

Also, if the Darkest Knight has the body of Dr. Manhattan, why doesn't he have all of Manhattan's powers?

(Speaking of, TDK's profile doesn't list an ability for him just wiping away all the evil Batmen with a gesture, lol)

Also, for the Hands, they should have, for starters:

1. Type 1 CM, since they use Connective Energy to create everything in the Multiverse

2. Plot Manip + Causality Manip, they control the fundamental stories and history of the multiverse so this is obvious

3. Type 1 + 4 Acausality, also obvious as they exist outside the multiverse.

 

[Elizio33]

Exactly. Furthermore, the World Forger’s Multiverse was still unstable at this stage, as described by Shayne J'onzz, who later called it a "fake Multiverse." Thus, when Superman shattered the Crisis Anvil, the only thing capable of allowing his Multiverse to replace the current reality that Mister Mxyzptlk was meant to erase, the Forger's Multiverse shattered as a result.

 

[TheBestBoi]

You could rightly say that Superman is 2A in normal space, but while altered in pitch, scale, and frequency to exist in the Sixth Dimension, he is 2A RELATIVE to BASELINE Sixth Dimensional; however, this would cause far too much confusion if this was put on his profile.

what is an altered pitch? I think the author intent means more tbh, that's what scott snyder has said to the imaginaryaxis

 

[Elizio33]

Also, if the Darkest Knight has the body of Dr. Manhattan, why doesn't he have all of Manhattan's powers?

(Speaking of, TDK's profile doesn't list an ability for him just wiping away all the evil Batmen with a gesture, lol)

Also, for the Hands, they should have, for starters:

1. Type 1 CM, since they use Connective Energy to create everything in the Multiverse

2. Plot Manip + Causality Manip, they control the fundamental stories and history of the multiverse so this is obvious

3. Type 1 + 4 Acausality, also obvious as they exist outside the multiverse.

He didn't have the body of Doctor Manhattan, but from the Final Bruce Wayne who was imbued with a similar energy.

 

[TheBestBoi]

Exactly. Furthermore, the World Forger’s Multiverse was still unstable at this stage, as described by Shayne J'onzz, who later called it a "fake Multiverse." Thus, when Superman shattered the Crisis Anvil, the only thing capable of allowing his Multiverse to replace the current reality that Mister Mxyzptlk was meant to erase, the Forger's Multiverse shattered as a result.

fake multiverse isn't unstable, going through a reread, I'm pretty sure it was stable, the unstable statement comes from andrew marino who an assistant editor, not even the ones scott snyder has asked for anymore questions

 

[Eseseso]

He didn't have the body of Doctor Manhattan, but from the Final Bruce Wayne who was imbued with a similar energy.

He should still probably have similar powers.

 

[PromptedElephant641]

He didn't have the body of Doctor Manhattan, but from the Final Bruce Wayne who was imbued with a similar energy.

What do you think of this note I have on my TDK draft page:

The Batman Who Laughs took the body of the unique alternate reality Bruce Wayne that managed to recreate the experiment that turned Jon Osterman into Doctor Manhattan after the events of The Button; however, this does not make him equal to the real Doctor Manhattan. While it is clear that the Batmanhattan body has a similar power-set and capabilities as the original and is immensely powerful, there are things that differentiate the two. The original Doctor Manhattan from the Watchmen Universe was fundamentally altered by his experimentation and travels throughout reality likely making him unique in the extent of his capabilities. Just as Prime-Earth Superman is far stronger than Red Son Superman, it cannot be said that all variants of Doctor Manhattan are equally powerful as they have not all been subjected to the same experiences and events additionally, mechanics vary between realities. Ultimately, all Doctor Manhattan variants are High-1A in nature due to being composed of Connective (Anti-Crisis) Energy. Since the Batmanhattan body is a Bruce Wayne from a reality in the Dark Multiverse, he would likely be composed of Crisis Energy instead.

 

[Elizio33]

fake multiverse isn't unstable, going through a reread, I'm pretty sure it was stable, the unstable statement comes from andrew marino who an assistant editor, not even the ones scott snyder has asked for anymore questions

Unstable in the sense that it was incomplete. Thus, still fragiles

What do you think of this note I have on my TDK draft page:

The Batman Who Laughs took the body of the unique alternate reality Bruce Wayne that managed to recreate the experiment that turned Jon Osterman into Doctor Manhattan after the events of The Button; however, this does not make him equal to the real Doctor Manhattan. While it is clear that the Batmanhattan body has a similar power-set and capabilities as the original and is immensely powerful, there are things that differentiate the two. The original Doctor Manhattan from the Watchmen Universe was fundamentally altered by his experimentation and travels throughout reality likely making him unique in the extent of his capabilities. Just as Prime-Earth Superman is far stronger than Red Son Superman, it cannot be said that all variants of Doctor Manhattan are equally powerful as they have not all been subjected to the same experiences and events additionally, mechanics vary between realities. Ultimately, all Doctor Manhattan variants are High-1A in nature due to being composed of Connective (Anti-Crisis) Energy. Since the Batmanhattan body is a Bruce Wayne from a reality in the Dark Multiverse, he would likely be composed of Crisis Energy instead.

Looks good

 

[Nonynho]

no actual clue if there is a GDT for Matt Reeves' Batman but even if there is i can't see this being troublesome

It seems like the Death Note side of the discussion gave up, since there has been no answer in quite a while, so would anyone be willing to collaborate with a vote or more inputs?

[1-0-0] Whatever's clever, the master foe, all bad guys heard of, nar' a villain know - 2022 Batman vs Light Yagami

-Batman has Gotham's situation estabilized (lol what a dream) and starts acting on november 15, 2004, right when Light starts acting as L -Light knew that he was an american vigilante (Limited Prior Knowledge) -Following the japanese movies TL, if Light sees himself too cornered, he ends his...

vsbattles.com

 

[TheBestBoi]

Unstable in the sense that it was incomplete. Thus, still fragiles
Looks good

but it wasn't incomplete, the implication seems to be it was stable and ready to be replaced, and was just waiting for a chance to replace reality. I've already reread it so many times. Only times it was said to be incomplete was from andrew marino, this contradicts scott snyder's intent of superman indeed destroying world forger's multiverse, he wasn't even the editor snyder referred to. Did you not see theimaginaryaxis' tweets? he consistently insists what scott snyder's intentions were

 

[KirbyFan03]

Think of it like this

You do an assignment for school

But you don't submit it

Is the assignment complete or incomplete before submitting it?

Because to me it seems The Forger made either a whole new Orrery or a whole new map before supes sun dipped his ass

 

[Nonynho]

You do an assignment for school

But you don't submit it

Is the assignment complete or incomplete before submitting it?

Not 100% sure but "complete" does not seem to be associated with "submitting" so if "you do it" it should be complete... no?

 

[TheBestBoi]

should we not take writer statements anymore? this wiki literally uses snyder's twitter reply on the 5th dimension and 6th dimension not being geometric dimensions, have I not mentioned the person who asked snyder on twitter whether superman destroyed the multiverse or not is literally the same person who asked whether the 5th and 6th dimension are geometric dimensions. DC fans owe this man otherwise DC is stuck at low 1-C

 

[Frankky123]

Exactly. Furthermore, the World Forger’s Multiverse was still unstable at this stage, as described by Shayne J'onzz, who later called it a "fake Multiverse." Thus, when Superman shattered the Crisis Anvil, the only thing capable of allowing his Multiverse to replace the current reality that Mister Mxyzptlk was meant to erase, the Forger's Multiverse shattered as a result.

Hello Elizio

What do you think about my CRT (Superman revision), there's hecky's proposal too. Would you like to give some input?

I would appreciate your help

 

[KirbyFan03]

Not 100% sure but "complete" does not seem to be associated with "submitting" so if "you do it" it should be complete... no?

It does but Forger wanted to replace the multiverse to stop judgement iirc

So he did the assignment but Superman tore it in front of him before giving him a black eye when the forger almost "submitted" it

 

[PromptedElephant641]

As I stated in one of my previous comments:

You could rightly say that Superman is 2A in normal space, but while altered in pitch, scale, and frequency to exist in the Sixth Dimension, he is 2A RELATIVE to BASELINE Sixth Dimensional; however, this would cause far too much confusion if this was put on his profile.

To put it in quantitative terms as is otherwise not possible due to the qualitative differences:

Say the normal universe has a tier value of X
Say Superman has a tier value of X * 100 which we will state is equal to multiverse level+ (2A)

When translated into the Sixth Dimension:
A Sixth Dimensional Universe now has a tier value of say γX
Superman now has a tier value of γX * 100

Superman has been scaled up in power in the Sixth Dimension; however, everything else is also scaled up as well. The difference between Superman and the universe he inhabits remains the same in the Sixth Dimension as it does in the regular universe. He has not gained any relative power. In this quantitative example the multiple of 100 remains the same in bother layers of reality so there is no difference. If you were scaled up to be a geometrically 5D being, but everything in the universe was also scaled up with you, then from your perspective nothing has changed at all.

This means that if we do concede that Superman destroyed the World Forger's multiverse in the Sixth Dimension, it is still only a 2A feat. Regardless, this does not matter as Superman already has 2A feats so this would change nothing just being more supporting evidence. The problem with putting this on his page, as previously stated, is it will cause too much confusion.

 

[TheBestBoi]

@PromptedElephant641 but what's more confusing is the explanation on his page isn't it? this is the first thing i mentioned too

• We do not consider Superman's ability to harm The World Forger after an unknown number of sun dips to be an outlier. However, given that the power-up in question required so extremely situational circumstances, with Superman first being elevated to a higher level of existence by Mister Mxyzptlk, and then supercharged on top of that, the statistics for it are not listed in this profile page, due to our rules regarding such situational and temporary amplifications listed here.

as you said, everything was scaled up properly, this is outright false that mxy amped him, plus we need to consider the writer statement too