Adding NEP 1 to the gods; NEP 2 to the End; AC4 and nonexistence erasure (Nature Type 1) to Yogiri—along with all aspects.

[Azertyhuuh]

Hello everyone, in this thread NEP 1 will be added to the gods, NEP 2 to the End, AC4 to end, and nonexistence erasure (Nature Type 1).

I ask everyone to stay as focused on the topic as possible so it doesn’t extend into many unnecessary pages. Otherwise, I may have to report any attempts to distract, disrupt, or derail the discussion.

These days I’ll be busy, so I may take a very long time to respond.

I discussed this topic with @Ihsjihahxu together on Discord.

This is the previous removal thread.

---

Spoiler: Refutation of the previous erasure argument.

Now I will respond to his arguments more effectively here, and this is the author of that thread: Nexus_still_slams, and here is his removal thread.

Nexus_still_slams: The passages where UEG is erased are this passage and these passages. First, it was nowhere stated that her soul, mind, or concept were erased. Likewise, the “divine core” is not stated to be a concept. The only justification used is that Rick’s sword can attack on a conceptual level, but that does not mean he conceptually attacked UEG or that the divine core is conceptual (in any case, this was removed in other threads). On the contrary, we are only told that UEG’s body was erased and nothing else.

He had already felt her destruction. Her body had been erased, and her presence had vanished. Rick was completely certain that she had been defeated. However, she was standing before them as if nothing had happened.

Once again, it is nowhere stated that Touichirou’s attack erased her on any level other than the physical level.

Reply: The gods have regained high divine regeneration throughout history, so things have changed significantly here.

Gods can return after the destruction of their soul, mind, body, and history.

Nexus_still_slams: Nothing like that is mentioned here. He only said that UEG should have been erased, which she confirmed by saying that she had been erased, but not that she was still in a state of non-existence. There is no mention that she was still in a state of non-existence when she spoke. On the contrary, it was stated that she was standing behind him, which should not be possible if she did not exist.

Reply: It does not matter; the gods did not obtain NEP Type 1 because of the fight between Touichirou and UEG.

Rather, the reason is that death for the gods is nothing more than another state of existence, as the novel itself states. Even after being erased spiritually, physically, mentally, and historically, they are still capable of existing in a state of non-existence.

The UEG had never considered that. She had believed gods were indestructible, eternal beings. She had killed any number of gods, but death was just another state of being for them, one from which they would eventually recover.
Volume 11 Chapter 21

Nexus_still_slams: There is also this chapter, where a goddess is dead and goes to the bottom of a sea of darkness (which is supposed to prove NEP). First, being able to exist in a non-existent place is not evidence of NEP because you are still existent. It is nowhere stated that this is a truly non-existent place, and directions are mentioned within it, which contradicts it being a non-existent void (the concept of direction should not apply here).

Reply: No, it seems you did not understand the actual reason why the gods possess NEP Type 1. The darkness is merely the place where gods go after death, and it has nothing to do with the gods possessing NEP Type 1. The reason for that is that death for the gods is simply another state of existence, where they can continue to exist even after being physically, spiritually, mentally, and historically destroyed. It is not because they exist inside this void; this is merely a clarification.

Nexus_still_slams: In this state, she cannot do anything, such as see or interact with the world; she is simply there, waiting for her resurrection. She could still see the world she had lived in, but she was no longer able to influence it. How long would she be able to see it? Soon, the darkness would close in around her, and she would no longer be able to see anything.

Reply: The gods are able to continue existing even after their death and after being destroyed physically, spiritually, mentally, and historically, and they can exist in a state of non-existence within the darkness. It does not matter whether they can influence it or not; what matters is that they are able to exist in a non-existent state within this darkness.

Nexus_still_slams: To continue, when UEG was in the void, she said that a concept such as “nothingness” cannot exist, and she was horrified by this non-existent place and could not do anything about it (which is strange if she herself is non-existent). So is she supposed to have NEP Type 1 in all aspects? Furthermore, the simple fact that she “died” after being swallowed by the darkness proves that she does not have NEP, since the fundamental principle of this void is that nothing can exist within it, and UEG was no exception to this rule. If she were able to remain non-existent, the void would not have affected her at all.

Reply: That is Yogiri’s darkness; it is his true form. His darkness is a void of nothingness that does not allow the existence of anything here, transcends everything, and there is nothing beyond it. In other words, as explained in detail in the topic, this nothingness goes beyond ordinary nothingness and qualifies as NEP Type 2; it is his true form.

There is something called layers in NEP Type 1, and a nothingness that even transcends ordinary nothingness is NEP Type 2. With all due respect, but from this statement it becomes clear that you may not fully understand these concepts.

Let us assume that character A has NEP Type 1 and is inside another nothingness, and this nothingness has one layer of NEP Type 1, and we label it B. Of course, B would be more “nothing” than A, such that A—who is already non-existent—would perceive B’s nothingness as non-existence in the same way a human or any existing being would perceive nothingness as absolute non-existence, because B is more “nothing” than A itself. For this reason, A itself would perceive B as nothingness even though it is already nothing.

In short, this is not a refutation but rather evidence that this nothingness is more “nothing” than the character itself. However, in this case, this darkness is the true form of Yogiri Takato himself, which transcends everything and has nothing beyond it. This nothingness is not merely a layer of NEP Type 1, but a complete transcendence of ordinary nothingness itself, as explained in the topic analysis.

Nexus_still_slams: Resurrection (Mid-Godly over time, Non-Combat Applicable; Given time, Gods will always reappear even if they are killed or destroyed)
Why is that a Mid-Godly resurrection?? The only thing said is that even if you erased gods, they will reappear, but since when is "erased" assumed to be at a physical and soul level? The only thing this panel qualifies for is a Low-Godly resurrection unless there's more scans related to this.

Regeneration (Mid-Godly; She can regenerate herself even after her divine core and whole body were destroyed. Regenerated seconds after her divine core was destroyed by Rick's sword.[2] Gods can still regenerate from states[3][4] like causality erasure and complete erasure.[5])
Literally the same thing, the same panel is used for this regeneration, with a panel that says things like causality erasure and complete erasure are common things in the sea (We don't even know the meaning of causality and complete erasure, it is literally impossible to use), but it doesn't say that the gods can regenerate from such erasure, it is just an assumption that if "anyone" can do this then the gods can regenerate from such erasure, plus, standards for mid-godly regeneration are the erasure of body, mind, and soul, which is not demonstrated in the panels (no, "complete erasure" does not necessarily mean an erasure of these aspects).

Reply: Things have changed significantly.

The gods possess high divine regeneration.

---

1. Nonexistent Physiology Type 1 (Gods):​

​

Gods have two states: life and death.

In the state of life, a god possesses body, mind,soul

killed or erased, they return to Sea of Darkness to wait for the day they will revive again.

This means their state changes from life to death, and that “death” itself is simply another state of a god, just as UEG stated: death is merely one state of a god

The UEG had never considered that. She had believed gods were indestructible, eternal beings. She had killed any number of gods, but death was just another state of being for them, one from which they would eventually recover.
Volume 11 Chapter 21

However, when we look at the chapters of UEG vs Rick and UEG vs Toichirou:

UEG vs Rick

Rick stepped over to the UEG's side. Taking his sword in both hands, he pointed it at the center of her chest. That should have been where her divine core resided. If he could pierce it, she should die. Rick carefully stabbed down. The Holy Sword passed through the barrier and reached the UEG's chest. It pierced through her clothes and split apart her flesh. Any ordinary attack would have failed to reach the core that resided underneath, but the god-slaying Holy Sword found it without issue Feeling the resistance from the core, he plunged the sword deeper in. The Holy Sword pierced through her core and unleashed an explosive power. The explosion tore apart her divine core, scattering the body that it had sustained, the pieces dissolving into light and disappearing
Yes. The UEG has been erased." Rick had felt the attack succeed. As if satisfied with the result, the sword in his hands vibrated happily
The answer came from behind them. They turned to see the UEG standing there. She looked no different from before, staring at the group with an exasperated expression

Unbelievable. I definitely felt her core being destroyed..."

Surely those other weaklings who call themselves gods would be killed once their core is destroyed. But a true god has no weaknesses. Even the concept of death does not apply to us

He had definitely felt her destruction. Her body had been erased, and her presence had vanished. Rick was absolutely certain she had been defeated. Yet even so, she stood before them like nothing had happened. He found it incomprehensible. Before such an absurdly powerful enemy, he had no idea how to proceed
Vol.10 Chapter 9

UEG vs Toichirou

There should have been no end to the cycle, but suddenly there was. Touichirou's attack had erased the universe containing the UEG You... You should have been erased." He had watched her being erased along with the universe around her, failing to escape in time. And in truth, up until that point, the UEG had ceased to exist
Vol.10 Chapter 19

UEG had her existence completely erased, meaning her state of life was destroyed (even though she was able to revive very quickly afterward).

But she still had to fall into the Sea of Darkness, which represents the state of death. This implies that a god must experience a lack of existence, becoming nonexistent, and completely to interact with the physical world

As we know, gods still exist in an informational form (That being possesses information linked to the world or the world’s axis, and a god likewise has information about their own self. For example, Malna has information tied to the world’s axis, and when she dies, she will be reborn in the world to which her information is bound)

Malna, who was destroyed by Miranda she appeared in the Sea of Darkness.

Her angels could not perceive her existence or identity, and she herself was completely cut off from the physical world. However, because her information and world core remained, she was able to return to her world.

In the Sea of Darkness, gods are typically either completely erased or sealed away. When a god dies or is completely erased, they fall into the Sea of Darkness, which is a state devoid of existence. There, they persist as beings that lack existence, until they restore themselves or revive their identity. The ‘core’ is a conceptual element that maintains their state of existence while they are alive. When it is destroyed, they die, fall into the Sea of Darkness, and become entities that lack existence.


This is Nonexistent Physiology Type 1

---

2. Nonexistent Physiology Type 2 (The end):

Yogiri is one of the primordial things that existed before everything

Characters of this type have to behave at least as nonexistent as those with Material Nonexistence, but might display even further showings such as preceding or opposing existence

This is another point I want to make.

Let's start from this point.

That’s a good question. Maybe it’s like the gap between life and death—a space-time singularity, a flashback, or a dream? Like the last glimmer of life before you die? Or a single instant where everything comes apart when one’s fate has been decided? You’re not dead yet, but your death has been guaranteed. This place could be like a shadow born from the transition from life to death. Anyway, interpret it as you like
“Not that I believe you, but why are you here, then?”

“I’ve been waiting for a chance to say ‘serves you right.’ Takatou would never say that to you, so I wanted to get it off my chest. Of course, I can’t go somewhere weird like this myself, so I just projected a shadow of myself here for this brief instant.”

“I see. It is true; despite my great wisdom, this is a phenomenon I am unfamiliar with. But you claim I have died? I do not know what this place is, but I can simply teleport away as I wish.”

UEG searched her surroundings. The empty blackness seemed to stretch on forever. As far as her senses could reach, the darkness continued endlessly. She tried observing other dimensions, parallel worlds, and alternate universes—but none of it worked. Only the same void greeted her
Vol.11 Chapter 21

Well, then! I'll destroy everything! Space-time! The universe! The higher universes, including that one too!"

UEG unleashed all of her power with all of her might, but the power that was supposed to destroy everything disappeared into the void. The power of UEG had no effect on the surroundings.
"It's useless. There's nothing here. You can't destroy something
that isn't there.

"Volume 8 chapter 1

From this, we know that UEG is not fully dead yet, but is approaching death, and her state is being transitioned from life to death. That transition itself is the embodiment of The End, or Yogiri’s power

This power changes the state of a character into Nothingness.

The place UEG is in is a boundary between existence and death—this is the manifestation of “The End.”

けっきょく、アレの周りで死んだ者っていうのは、死のうがどうなろうが彼の心にたいした影響を残さない者だけなんだよ。子供のころのことはどうなんだって？ 　錯乱している様子もある？ 　でも結果としてたいした影響はなかっただろ？ 　つまり、最終的に問題がなければアレにとってはそれでいいんだよ。そんな完璧を求めてるわけでもないんだろうしね。 　ん？ 　けっきょくこいつは何者なのか？ 　正体は何なんだって？ 　正体も何もそういう存在としか言い様がないよ。僕が僕であるように、君が君であるように、アレはアレなんだ。 　アレは僕が発生する前から、おそらくは〝世界〟の最初から存在している。〝世界〟を構成するルールの一つであり、〝世界〟を規定する存在なんだ。〝世界〟の限界を示すものであり、終わりであり、ストッパーなんだよ。
In the end, the only ones who die around that thing are those whose deaths, no matter how they die, won’t leave much of an impact on his heart. What about when he was a child? Did he seem deranged? But in the end, it didn’t have much of an effect, did it? In other words, as long as there’s no problem in the end, that’s all that matters to him. It’s not like he’s aiming for perfection anyway


Hm? In the end, what is this thing? What’s its true identity

Its identity—there’s nothing else to call it but that kind of existence. Just as I am myself, and you are yourself, it is itself

It existed even before I came into being, probably from the very beginning of the “world.” It is one of the rules that make up the “world,” an existence that defines the “world.” It shows the limits of the “world”—it is the end, the stopper
Vol.15 Last Chapter

Yogiri has existed alongside the world or perhaps even before everything. He is the one who governs all creation, transcending everything, including life and death. He determines existence itself as well as the end of existence.

• Characters of this type have to behave at least as nonexistent as those with Material Nonexistence, but might display even further showings such as preceding or opposing existence

As mentioned earlier, the death of gods and Yogiri’s power should be treated separately and not conflated. This is because death is merely a state of lacking existence and is one phase within the cycle of life. However, Yogiri’s “death” is the return of all things to true nothingness.

As stated on the NEP page, his state existed prior to everything and stands in opposition to the lack of existence (death)

Nonexistent ≠ Nothingness in this context

Spoiler: His darkness is his true form.

1. His darkness is a void of nothingness where nothing exists, and nothing is allowed to exist here.

What is this?" Not being able to quickly grasp the situation, UEG was dumbfounded for a while. However, time is subjective, and in reality, not much time has passed.

In front of UEG, there was an endless darkness. A void of nothingness.

Then she tried to find another dimension, another parallel world, another universe, but that didn't work either. What she see is nothing but emptiness.

There really is nothing here.

Realizing this, UEG was slowly beginning to feel fear. No matter where she tried to go, there was nothing. As long as there was nothing, there was nowhere to travel to.

"Well, then! I'll destroy everything! Space-time! The universe! The higher universes, including that one too!"

UEG unleashed all of her power with all of her might, but the power that was supposed to destroy everything disappeared into the void. The power of UEG had no effect on the surroundings.

"It's useless. There's nothing here. You can't destroy something
that isn't there."

"Yeah. I'm glad to see you fluttering in a hurry. It's a shame we can't send this information to my main body."

However, despite UEG's request, the illusion who called himself the Dragon disappeared into the darkness.

"Well, then you can make a world here."

If there is nothing and nowhere to go, then she can create it here herself. She is a god, so she can at least do creation. It should be possible, but no matter what was made, it immediately melted into the darkness. Nothing is allowed to exist here.

And UEG realized that she was in the process of melting into the darkness.

She tried to keep herself together somehow, but gradually she began to lose sight of what she was doing.

"...... why...... why should the mistress go through this ......"

UEG lost her shape, lost sense of who she was, and eventually disappeared into the darkness.
Volume 8 chapter 1

It was a dead end. The destination of all fates, beyond which there is nothing. The end of everything in human form. It is precisely because it is the end that it stands until the end. No one can go further than it. Before this thing, fate, the plot, and the like must be a joke.

Nonexistent Physiology Type 2

---

• all aspects:

Elizhaa agreed with these arguments regarding the matter and confirmed that the gods possess NEP Type 1, as is clear here. He also provided his own arguments, which are almost the same as those presented here. The gods and Yogiri would also have all other aspects for the reasons Elizhaa mentioned in his statement here as well. This matter was also previously accepted by @DontTalkDT here.

---

The Dark Sea

The Dark Sea is a void in which nothing exists; even light and darkness do not exist here.

nothing but empty blackness. If someone was down there, she should have
seen them. Light and dark were subjective here, so it wasn’t like the darkness
could impede her vision.
But Malna was completely alone. No matter how much she doubted her
eyes, she couldn’t see anyone but herself.

The Dark Sea: NEP Type 1.

3. Acausality Type 4 (Yogiri): ​

As @Elizhaa mentioned here, since the Demon King novel has been removed, Yogiri will regain Type 4 acausality, as Elizhaa stated.

• Acausality (Type 4; Exists outside the system of the heavenly records and space-time. It is imperceptible / incomprehensible even from the point of view of acausal beings such as the HRE, and is stated to be beyond fate and causality itself; additionally, its attacks are also not attached to causality due to its nature).

Elizhaa’s statement: edit: It somewhat off topic, but Acausaility type 4 removal from Yogiri was largely from The Demon King is Unbeatable's evidence which was removed from the god's cases on passive causality manipulation and invincibility and that also weaken or removed conceptual manipulation evidence, which further weaken the evidence of acausality in the past, that got reinstated.

---

Conclusion:​

• The gods will possess NEP 1 with all aspects.
• The End will possess NEP 2 with all aspects.
• Void erasure of natural types 1 with all aspects (Yogiri).
• Acausality Type 4 for the end.

---

Agreed: @Elizhaa (NEP 1 for the gods, and agrees with NEP 1 for the End, as well as AC4 for the End,Void erasure of natural types 1 with all aspects), @Vietthai96 (NEP 1 and AC 4( the end), The Dark Sea: NEP Type 1, NEP Type 1، NPI NEP)
@ActuallySpaceMan42 (The Dark Sea: NEP Type 1 and The End: NEP Type 1 and AC4, NPI NEP)


Disagreed: @Vietthai96 (The gods are NEP 1, and the End is NEP) 2), @ActuallySpaceMan42 (The gods are NEP 1, and the End is NEP 2).

 

[Robo432343]

In reality, when a god is killed or erased, they return to Sea of Darkness to wait for the day they will revive again.

Scan does not work

Malna, who was destroyed by Miranda she appeared in the Sea of Darkness.

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Her angels could not perceive her existence or identity, and she herself was completely cut off from the physical world. However, because her information and world core remained, she was able to return to her world.

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Yogiri is one of the primordial things that existed before everything

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This power changes the state of a character into Nothingness.

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[Azertyhuuh]

Scan does not work

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Scan does not work

The volume and chapter number are available; you can look them up yourself since the source is available. I will also try later to figure out the cause of this issue.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Neutral on NEP, but I have to note that you haven't outlined any aspects for it. Elizhaa's messages do not contain any concrete statements regarding them

Leaning to agree with Aca4, since it's a very broad ability either way

Currently disagree with Acasuality Type 5. It is one of the most major abilities on the wiki and is almost always required to have extensive evidence. The currently presented evidence does not fall under such criteria, especially with only a single scan you presented talking about causality in the first place

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Before we even get started you failed with the one requirement to create this CRT...

Instant Death Rules​

• Any new CRT centred around addition of previously rejected abilities must contain a link to the previous CRT where it was rejected, furthermore the OP must be self sufficient in addressing the reasoning behind the rejection, if it fails to address the logic behind the removal then the thread is liable to be removed under a moderators discretion however it can still be opened at a later point in time if the OP is adequately edited to meet the above requirements. The previous downgrades have been agreed upon without much intervention as such changing them requires sufficient evidence, something which has been quite lacking in recent revisions.

 

[Hecky2222]

Before we even get started you failed with the one requirement to create this CRT...

Well technically you should link all related CRTs where this has been addressed or debunked so rule would apply here

Also OP should update all broken scans as well

 

[sukuna171]

Neutral on gods having NEP, but in agreement that Yogiri should at least have NEP Type 1 and Acausality Type 4.

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Neutral on NEP.
Aca 4 seems fine.
disagree w type 5,
You need more evidence for it. "Beyond casuality" that could almost mean nothing and it's not blatant. Nothing here shows that the true form is above cause and effect, which is exactly what type 5 is.

And another thing, you have to address why the downgrades happened in the first place and debunk that. I see nothing in the OP for that either.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Before we even get started you failed with the one requirement to create this CRT...

Well technically you should link all related CRTs where this has been addressed or debunked so rule would apply here

Also OP should update all broken scans as well

I just forgot to add it, and I’ve added it now.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Neutral on NEP.
Aca 4 seems fine.
disagree w type 5,
You need more evidence for it. "Beyond casuality" that could almost mean nothing and it's not blatant. Nothing here shows that the true form is above cause and effect, which is exactly what type 5 is.

And another thing, you have to address why the downgrades happened in the first place and debunk that. I see nothing in the OP for that either.

Reductions made in the absence of supporters?? Anyway, I’ve added it; I just forgot to include the link, and I’ve done it now.

 

[Wesker018]

You need more evidence for it. "Beyond casuality" that could almost mean nothing and it's not blatant. Nothing here shows that the true form is above cause and effect, which is exactly what type 5 is.

"Above cause and effect" is still not enough tho, you also need statements indicating that the dude is unchanging & uninteractable for those who still subscribe to cause-effect

 

[Hecky2222]

Reductions made in the absence of supporters??

Lot verses got nuked when supporters were absent. It doesn't mean you need to ignore discussion rules unless you want to violate them. We don't have problems with threads if they address previous threads that nuked certain things. In that case I am waiting for @Dark_Soul20189 to provide where it was addressed

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

"Above cause and effect" is still not enough tho, you also need statements indicating that the dude is unchanging & uninteractable for those who still subscribe to cause-effect

True

 

[Reiner04]

I was asked to tag some staffs but scans in the OP aren't working, fix them first.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I was asked to tag some staffs but scans in the OP aren't working, fix them first.

It has been fixed now.

 

[Reiner04]

@Elizhaa @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless Your opinion here will be appreciated

 

[Hecky2222]

Nonexistent Physiology Type 2

---

• all aspects:

Elizhaa agreed with these arguments regarding the matter and confirmed that the gods possess NEP Type 1, as is clear here. He also provided his own arguments, which are almost the same as those presented here. The gods and Yogiri would also have all other aspects for the reasons Elizhaa mentioned in his statement here as well. This matter was also previously accepted by @DontTalkDT here.

I was just scrolling through OP and clicked on exactly what DT "agreed" previously

Eh, Type 2 isn't better nonexistence; it's transdual nonexistence. So I don't think being nonexistent to beings that already have a level of nonexistence would qualify.

LMAOOO nice agreement bro

 

[Wesker018]

I was just scrolling through OP and clicked on exactly what DT "agreed" previously




LMAOOO nice agreement bro

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I was just scrolling through OP and clicked on exactly what DT "agreed" previously




LMAOOO nice agreement bro

 

[sukuna171]

It’s worth noting that the sea of darkness and the void are two different things. The sea of darkness has never been described as non-existent, whereas the void has.

 

[sukuna171]

Also, God’s Nep is questionable, as the UEG didn’t believe non-existence was a concept until discovering the void.

"It's useless. There's nothing here. You can't destroy something that isn't there.""Don't **** with me! There's no such concept!"

 

[Hecky2222]

Also, God’s Nep is questionable, as the UEG didn’t believe non-existence was a concept until discovering the void.

literally my thoughts. This seems like HGR overtime thing being wanked to NEP

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Also, God’s Nep is questionable, as the UEG didn’t believe non-existence was a concept until discovering the void.

As you can see before you, all the evidence is clear.

She was passing through the darkness like the other gods, so she understood the meaning of nothingness and emptiness exactly like the other gods who exist in the Sea of Darkness, which is merely a void in which nothing exists at all—neither light nor darkness, and there is nothing, and nothing can be done from there either. Therefore, what you are saying here is not correct unless you are deliberately ignoring this.

Well...I have nothing else to do, so I guess I can just relax and watch.”
If the angels decided to do anything, it would probably have an effect
regardless of where she was watching from, so she would be able to figure it
out. For now, there was nothing more she could do.
“Actually, where’s Rilna?”
Rilna had died around the same time Malna had, so it wouldn’t be strange
if she was close by. Since she had died first, if she was anywhere, she would
be deeper down. Malna turned to the depths of the darkness. There was
nothing but empty blackness. If someone was down there, she should have
seen them. Light and dark were subjective here, so it wasn’t like the darkness
could impede her vision.
But Malna was completely alone. No matter how much she doubted her
eyes, she couldn’t see anyone but herself.

It was like she was slowly sinking to the bottom of a sea of darkness. That
was what the experience of death was like for Malna. Above the surface of
the water, she could still see the world she had lived in, but she was unable to
influence it anymore. How long would she be able to see it? Before long,
darkness would close in around her and she wouldn’t be able to see anything.
“Ah, dang it! This sucks! This totally sucks!”
She had let down her guard. She had underestimated Kouryu, thinking he
was powerless. She could come up with any number of excuses, but the fact
of the matter was that she had been outsmarted. She wanted to get back at
him somehow, but she didn’t know if her anger and frustration would last
until her resurrection.
For a god, death wasn’t the end, but she would be unable to do anything
for a significant amount of time.

UEG, in her words, was not referring to nothingness, but rather to Yogiri himself. She did not believe that such a concept, as applied to Yogiri, existed.

Of course, we can review the previous statements to understand the situation before drawing any hasty conclusions:

I asked what the hell is this!"

"What is it you ask? It's the gap between life and death, or a singularity, or a flashback, or even a dream. A glimmer moment before death? I wonder if it is a temporary breakdown caused by the confirmation of cause and effect. You're not dead yet, but you're a shadow figure that captures the moment of transition from life to death that occurs when death is confirmed...... Well, you can interpret it however you like."

"I'm not convinced, but why are you here?"

"I was looking for an opportunity. I wanted to say "That's what you get!". Takatou-kun wouldn't say such a thing, so I wanted to at least say it and clear my mind. Well, I can't come to this incomprehensible place, so I'm just projecting my shadow at the moment."

"....I see. this definitely seemed to be a phenomenon that even the wisdom of mistress could not comprehend. But, would the mistress die? I don't know where I am, but I just have to move to wherever it is I'm going."

UEG explored the area. The darkness went on forever, really forever. It goes on and on, endlessly, as far as UEG's perception can go.

Then she tried to find another dimension, another parallel world, another universe, but that didn't work either. What she see is nothing but emptiness.

There really is nothing here.

Realizing this, UEG was slowly beginning to feel fear. No matter where she tried to go, there was nothing. As long as there was nothing, there was nowhere to travel to.

"Well, then! I'll destroy everything! Space-time! The universe! The higher universes, including that one too!"

UEG unleashed all of her power with all of her might, but the power that was supposed to destroy everything disappeared into the void. The power of UEG had no effect on the surroundings.

"It's useless. There's nothing here. You can't destroy something that isn't there."

As you can see in this context, she was referring to his true form—Takato Yogiri himself. Even she, as one of the higher gods, was unable to comprehend the phenomenon she was facing. She knew it was simply nothingness, but despite that, she could not understand what it was, what state she was in now, or what exactly Takato Yogiri was, because this was his true form. She could not even comprehend it.
She gathered her full power, a force sufficient to destroy the Final Group entirely, yet even that power dissolved within his nothingness and achieved nothing at all. Because of this, she became frightened and unsettled, and stated that such a concept cannot exist.
This refers to Yogiri’s true form and the place she was in—a place from which no one can escape, flee, or perceive anything beyond it, and which cannot even be understood, even by her.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

literally my thoughts. This seems like HGR overtime thing being wanked to NEP

How about you stop sending comments like this?

 

[Hecky2222]

How about you stop sending comments like this?

who are you to stop normal user to express opinion?

 

[Ihsjihahxu]

Also, God’s Nep is questionable, as the UEG didn’t believe non-existence was a reviving very quickly or even instantly. This is normal for high-tier deities. That is precisely why she may have never encountered true nothingness—where absolutely nothing exists.

UEG has never believed in the concept of Nothingness, as she has never encountered anything like it before.
However, the state of Death is different, because it is a state of Lack of Life — everything related to life: the body, mind, soul, or Divine Core that functions as a concept of existence in the state of life. It is a state of lacking continuity, not a state where she herself must become emptiness.

We also know that UEG is one of the three goddesses of the Ensemble World, and she is able to return to life rapidly or instantaneously — which is normal for high-ranking deities. That is why she may have never encountered true nothingness at all: a state where there is absolutely nothing whatsoever.
UEG is not an Omniscient deity. Not everything is known to her.

As has been stated, we should separate Nothingness in the narrative from the state of death as Lack of Existence — which causes the gods to exist in a state of death as lack of existence.

In vol.3, the Sea is described as void and is the home of the Celestial Foundation Eater. The entire place is darkness and emptiness.

"At that point, the baby was only an avatar of itself. It was something like a probe for observing humanity while its true body remained in the Sea, the void that housed each Celestial Foundation."

In vol 8, God falls endlessly into the Sea of dark void. There is likewise nothing there at all.

However, it may be said that the death of the three goddesses may not necessarily cast them into the dark Sea — it could be elsewhere, or they may not fall into the Sea at all, since they return immediately, unless they are sealed.
The gods have all experienced void — except her, because she has never fallen into the Sea.

But what she speaks of and disbelieves — that the Concept of Nothingness is possible — is because Nothingness is something different. It is a state deeper than all existence or Nonexistent (void). There is truly Nothingness.

What I want you to consider is this.
According to Nep1's description:

"Material Nonexistence: The character doesn't exist in a conventional sense. In terms of binary, this would be a 0, where existence is 1 and nonexistence is 0. In simple terms, that means that the characters simply lack the aspect, in the same way that a stone lacks a soul."

Something exists in a state of lacking something — such as a stone that lacks a soul.

God likewise exists in a state of Lack of Existence.

The Divine Core is what anchors physical continuity — whether it be the body, soul, or existence itself.
Because of this, we should separate:
Death of God (one of the states of a deity) from Nothingness entirely.

These two should not be treated as the same concept.


However, it all depends on whether you share the same perspective as me.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

UEG has never believed in the concept of Nothingness, as she has never encountered anything like it before.
However, the state of Death is different, because it is a state of Lack of Life — everything related to life: the body, mind, soul, or Divine Core that functions as a concept of existence in the state of life. It is a state of lacking continuity, not a state where she herself must become emptiness.

We also know that UEG is one of the three goddesses of the Ensemble World, and she is able to return to life rapidly or instantaneously — which is normal for high-ranking deities. That is why she may have never encountered true nothingness at all: a state where there is absolutely nothing whatsoever.
UEG is not an Omniscient deity. Not everything is known to her.

As has been stated, we should separate Nothingness in the narrative from the state of death as Lack of Existence — which causes the gods to exist in a state of death as lack of existence.

In vol.3, the Sea is described as void and is the home of the Celestial Foundation Eater. The entire place is darkness and emptiness.

In vol 8, God falls endlessly into the Sea of dark void. There is likewise nothing there at all.

However, it may be said that the death of the three goddesses may not necessarily cast them into the dark Sea — it could be elsewhere, or they may not fall into the Sea at all, since they return immediately, unless they are sealed.
The gods have all experienced void — except her, because she has never fallen into the Sea.

But what she speaks of and disbelieves — that the Concept of Nothingness is possible — is because Nothingness is something different. It is a state deeper than all existence or Nonexistent (void). There is truly Nothingness.

What I want you to consider is this.
According to Nep1's description:

Something exists in a state of lacking something — such as a stone that lacks a soul.

God likewise exists in a state of Lack of Existence.

The Divine Core is what anchors physical continuity — whether it be the body, soul, or existence itself.
Because of this, we should separate:
Death of God (one of the states of a deity) from Nothingness entirely.

These two should not be treated as the same concept.


However, it all depends on whether you share the same perspective as me.

Yes, I agree.

 

[sukuna171]

UEG has never believed in the concept of Nothingness, as she has never encountered anything like it before.
However, the state of Death is different, because it is a state of Lack of Life — everything related to life: the body, mind, soul, or Divine Core that functions as a concept of existence in the state of life. It is a state of lacking continuity, not a state where she herself must become emptiness.

We also know that UEG is one of the three goddesses of the Ensemble World, and she is able to return to life rapidly or instantaneously — which is normal for high-ranking deities. That is why she may have never encountered true nothingness at all: a state where there is absolutely nothing whatsoever.
UEG is not an Omniscient deity. Not everything is known to her.

As has been stated, we should separate Nothingness in the narrative from the state of death as Lack of Existence — which causes the gods to exist in a state of death as lack of existence.

In vol.3, the Sea is described as void and is the home of the Celestial Foundation Eater. The entire place is darkness and emptiness.

In vol 8, God falls endlessly into the Sea of dark void. There is likewise nothing there at all.

However, it may be said that the death of the three goddesses may not necessarily cast them into the dark Sea — it could be elsewhere, or they may not fall into the Sea at all, since they return immediately, unless they are sealed.
The gods have all experienced void — except her, because she has never fallen into the Sea.

But what she speaks of and disbelieves — that the Concept of Nothingness is possible — is because Nothingness is something different. It is a state deeper than all existence or Nonexistent (void). There is truly Nothingness.

What I want you to consider is this.
According to Nep1's description:

Something exists in a state of lacking something — such as a stone that lacks a soul.

God likewise exists in a state of Lack of Existence.

The Divine Core is what anchors physical continuity — whether it be the body, soul, or existence itself.
Because of this, we should separate:
Death of God (one of the states of a deity) from Nothingness entirely.

These two should not be treated as the same concept.


However, it all depends on whether you share the same perspective as me.

You make some great points, but the one thing I completely disagree with is Acausality Type 5.

 

[Ihsjihahxu]

You make some great points, but the one thing I completely disagree with is Acausality Type 5.

Since he exists everywhere from the very beginning of all creation, he himself must be beyond cause and effect — unaffected and unchanged by anything. For ultimately, all cause and effect must return to the nothingness where nothing exists, should it ever be used to affect him. And his Nothingness itself is unaffected

そして気付く。気付かされる。
　確かに過去には戻っている。なのに目が存在する。
　ならば答えは簡単だ。それは最初から、あらゆる空間に存在しているのだ。
　それは呪いなのか、あるいは汚染なのか。
　記憶を継承しての過去への移動では、それを認識してしまったという事実は二度と変えることができない。

He suddenly realized something. Rather, he was forced to notice. He had

indeed returned to the past, but the eyes were still there. That could mean

only one thing: those eyes had existed everywhere, right from the start.

Vol.5 chapter 7

However, I neither agree nor disagree with any of this.

 

[sukuna171]

Since he exists everywhere from the very beginning of all creation, he himself must be beyond cause and effect — unaffected and unchanged by anything. For ultimately, all cause and effect must return to the nothingness where nothing exists, should it ever be used to affect him. And his Nothingness itself is unaffected


However, I neither agree nor disagree with any of this.

For Yogiri to have Acausality Type 5, there needs to be a statement indicating that his true form is completely unaffected and unchanged by anything.


Something like this, for example.

They existed, because they had to exist. They had no antecedent and no constituents, and there is no instrument of causality by which they could be portioned into components and assigned to some schematic of their origin. If you followed the umbilical of history in search of some ultimate atavistic embryo that became them, you would end your journey marooned here in this garden.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

However, the state of Death is different, because it is a state of Lack of Life — everything related to life: the body, mind, soul, or Divine Core that functions as a concept of existence in the state of life. It is a state of lacking continuity, not a state where she herself must become emptiness.

Nothing like this has ever been stated about the core ever. Not a single time.

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Snip

There needs proof that it's unchanged / unaffected
We can't make assumptions, because assumptions made can always be wrong.
↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑
So I still disagree with type 5 acasuality as there is no proof for it. NEP has already been addressed and basing on what DT said, there is no NEP. That is just MGR or HGR whatever overtime

 

[sukuna171]

I definitely agree with Yogiri being true from having Nep 1, though I’m not quite sure which aspects specifically.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Can you stop posting comments that add nothing to the discussion? This is literally laughable—objections that still haven’t refuted anything, while you just keep repeating comments that contribute nothing.

So far, not even a single point has been refuted. The gods would have NEP 1 and Yogiri would have NEP 2. This is something I have already discussed even with the staff, and I genuinely find these comments amusing.

We rely on evidence and logic here, not on liking or disliking anything, so enough with these kinds of comments.
Also, I don’t understand what this “DK” thing is??? lol I think everyone misread the comment??

He literally agreed with all aspects (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) in his statement very clearly, and I’ll repeat it here so everyone can see it and also stay silent about it lol. It was funny to the point I almost thought it was real.

I said he agreed with the aspects, not anything else, so I ask everyone to stop these comments that add nothing except distracting from the topic. I will also paste his statement here so everyone can see it again clearly:

I guess Aspect Type 1, 2 and 4 are fine based on this (and 5 depending on how you wish to justify it). I would guess he probably has 3 as well, although strictly speaking a feat has to be presented for that.

Ok. In that case you will want to additionally add nature type 3 for the mind, though. As he clearly has a mind.

I am talking about the aspects, not NEP, and this is something that is completely clear from the title of the thread here:

all aspects:
Elizhaa agreed with these arguments regarding the matter and confirmed that the gods possess NEP Type 1, as is clear here. He also provided his own arguments, which are almost the same as those presented here. The gods and Yogiri would also have all other aspects for the reasons Elizhaa mentioned in his statement here as well. This matter was also previously accepted by @DontTalkDT here.

I think the phrase “all aspects” is clear to everyone in the discussion.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Can you stop posting comments that add nothing to the discussion?

You don't even know what's going on in your own series you're trying to rep, bro, SIT DOWN.

Even then the hell are you to try and stop people from making comments cause you deem them 'to add nothing' when they're just fine and adding nothing yourself? Don't be obtuse.

 

[sukuna171]

Can you stop posting comments that add nothing to the discussion? This is literally laughable—objections that still haven’t refuted anything, while you just keep repeating comments that contribute nothing.

So far, not even a single point has been refuted. The gods would have NEP 1 and Yogiri would have NEP 2. This is something I have already discussed even with the staff, and I genuinely find these comments amusing.

We rely on evidence and logic here, not on liking or disliking anything, so enough with these kinds of comments.
Also, I don’t understand what this “DK” thing is??? lol I think everyone misread the comment??

He literally agreed with all aspects (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) in his statement very clearly, and I’ll repeat it here so everyone can see it and also stay silent about it lol. It was funny to the point I almost thought it was real.

I said he agreed with the aspects, not anything else, so I ask everyone to stop these comments that add nothing except distracting from the topic. I will also paste his statement here so everyone can see it again clearly:




I am talking about the aspects, not NEP, and this is something that is completely clear from the title of the thread here:



I think the phrase “all aspects” is clear to everyone in the discussion.

Let’s just say the gods possess NEP1; even so, Yogiri still wouldn’t be NEP2.

 

[Hecky2222]

how tf gods have all aspects when concept isn't even erased and they regen via core. Heck it's even unknown if informational part is NEP also. Keep at mind you have accepted only History part(which indeed wank but that's for another topic)

So if you genuinely argue for gods NEP. It would be NEP 1(Soul, Mind, History) at best. No all aspects thing whatsoever. And I am genuinely failing to find even sufficient justification for that NEP 1 even

 

[Azertyhuuh]

You don't even know what's going on in your own series you're trying to rep, bro, SIT DOWN.

Even then the hell are you to try and stop people from making comments cause you deem them 'to add nothing' when they're just fine and adding nothing yourself? Don't be obtuse.

I don’t know why you keep talking to me at all when I don’t care about you in the first place. We can just block each other if I’m bothering you—sounds like a good idea, right? Or is it that you can’t live without me?

 

[Vesxpura]

peak, i agree

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

I don’t know why you keep talking to me at all when I don’t care about you in the first place.

Probably because you're the most recent king of making stuff up and omitting context within scans for the verse and mentioning any opposing opinions as something 'laughable' when that's the corniest thing you can do possible, is larping as some 'superior being' apart of your gimmick?

You don't even like addressing previous arguments because of what, you're scared people'll see them as something to listen to instead of yours? Newsflash, it's a debate site, don't make me laugh.