General DC Comics Discussion Thread

[Hecky2222]

This includes emanation darkseid which is consistently accepted as being comparable to time trapper

And supposedly one who you should scale can toy with whole Justice League in whole Metal event. No idea about Time Trapper but this feat along holding 2-A is iffy rn

Idk how you call it chainscaling

 

[Bimgus8010]

And supposedly one who you should scale can toy with whole Justice League in whole Metal event. No idea about Time Trapper but this feat along holding 2-A is iffy rn

Idk how you call it chainscaling

Are you talking about barbatos?

Cuz even batman variants in dark multiverse are immune to damage from the normal multiverse, superman could not harm any of these guys




Element x is the thing making them damageable




These are already listed in barbatos page's btw

Hence why superman could damage barbatos chained with the metal, because you can do damage to them at that point

 

[Bimgus8010]

But I'm all up for it if we want to make base gigglegos who also toyed with the justice league 2C or 2A or something if giggleman can face tanked supes attacks

 

[Hecky2222]

But I'm all up for it if we want to make base gigglegos who also toyed with the justice league 2C or 2A or something if giggleman can face tanked supes attacks

Somewhat it seems like Invulnerability stuff is accepted in page. Well I have no problems if that

I am just implying it would be better to have better chainscaling redux(Cuz everyone scaling to peak makes me feel weird bit)

 

[PromptedElephant641]

Thing you are telling here would destroy current chainscaling which was made by @Emirp sumitpo

If we consider feat against Barbatos as outlier. Do you have any idea to replacement of current chainscaling?

The scaling would mostly stay the same but the reasoning would be changed. Not to be rude, but the current justification using the Time Trapper is straight up wrong. Additionally as I have stated, Rebirth Superman scaling above Barbatos is a massive outlier.

The new feats for 2A Post-Crisis Heralds include the WillWorld Trial that all Green Lanterns must pass to become fully initiated into the Green Lantern Corps. I recall that in the story Hal Jordan has only had the ring for a few months (less than a year but more than half a year I don't remember the exact amount of time) as such ALL Green Lanterns by definition must be capable of performing the 2A Trial of Willworld:

• For those that are not aware: WillWorld is a plane of existence contained within the Green Lantern Central Power Battery. It is an infinite sea of universes, where every thought instantly materializes into reality. Part of becoming a Green Lantern requires passing a test where one enters the Central Power Battery, creates their own universe, then project their consciousness into that universe, live in that universes, and then achieve awareness of their position in their self actualized reality, and finally upon realizing this become the master of WillWorld - Green Lantern Will World.

The next feat for Post-Crisis is Superman fighting the Red King. The Red King is explicitly capable of performing a 2A feat and this is stated in 4 separate comic issues:

• The Red King states that he “ran infinite versions of myself through infinite probabilities” all of these were shown to be true genuine universes - JLA Classified Vol1 #33. This same EXACT comic panel with minute changes (three, then two, then one) is shown again in JLA Classified Vol1 #34 and JLA Classified Vol1 #35.
• The Red King states: “I CREATED INFINITE VERSIONS OF MYSELF, ALL LIVING IN INFINITE PROBABILITIES WITH THE SINGULAR GOAL OF WORLD DOMINATION. ALL BUT THREE OF THOSE PROBABILITIES ENDED IN FAILURE AND WERE ERADICATED. IN EACH OF THE REMAINING THREE, I DARRIN PROFITT--EVOLVED INTO THE RED KING. ON THIS EARTH, I BECAME A HERO--THE RECIPIENT OF WORSHIP AND ADULATION. LIFE IS BETTER THAN GOOD. IT'S PERFECT.” - JLA Classified Vol1 #3 (The text is all capitalized because I copied and pasted directly from the comic panel)

The third feat comes from DC's publications of He-Man and Masters of the Universe:

• He-Man has very solid 2A feats via the Orb of Power and his connection to Castle Grayskull which are clearly 2A. The Orb of Horrors which is the anti version of the Orb of Power contains Infinite universes. Castle Grayskull contains an infinite labyrinth and at its center is the Orb of Power which contains all of the power of the Council of Elders. Control of the Eyes of Grayskull allows one to have control over the past, present, and future. The He-Man content published by DC comic directly scales to DC characters and is firmly established to be directly connected to DC via Hypertime. Hypertime as experienced by Skeletor is the EXACT same as Hypertime as described by the enormously powerful and cosmically knowledgeable Mr Mxyzptlk. Skeletor looking into Hypertime after being banished by John Constantine was a critical event in the Eternity War storyline as experiencing Hypertime showed him that every version of Skeletor loses. This pushes Skeletor to take drastic actions by becoming Death Incarnate he planned on killing everything because he reasons if he can never win, than nobody else can be allowed to win.

The following is information compiled from my first large post that shows 2A statements for He-Man and his power source:

• Rebirth: The Orb of Horrors is stated to contain an infinite number of universes. The itself multiverse is said to contain a number of infinite universes. Each of these universes has its own Castle Grayskull and Orb of Power. The Anti world is the sole world in the multiverse where he is a force of pure evil and everything is backwards hence why the Orb of Power is now called the Orb of Horrors. (The He-Man content published by DC is directly part of the DC universe due to Hypertime and the crossover which directly connects back into He-Man’s comics) - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #1
• Rebirth: looking into The Orb of Power is described as the depths of infinity, given that the Orb of Horrors contains infinite universes, the Infinity of the Orb of Power also likely refers to infinite universes here - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #3. The Orb of Powers is said to be the nexus of all realities, the gateway to other realms and dimensions, and is the power that created the multiverse itself - He-Man/ThunderCats Vol1 #6.
• Rebirth: The Orb of Power is described as the nexus of all realities and the doorway to infinity. Implying again that the number of realities it has access to is infinite. Castle Grayskull also contains an infinite labyrinth inside itself - Injustice versus Masters of the Universe Vol1 #5.
• Rebirth: The nexus of all realities “shows every possible universe. Every choice is its own world. To step into the stream without a guide is to be swept into the currents of the multiverse and be uncreated.” Which we know there to be an infinite amount of universes. Superman when looking how to prevent the death of Lois sees billions of different realities with different outcomes - Injustice versus Masters of the Universe Vol1 #6.
• Rebirth: The reach of the Starseed in the hands of Anti-He-Man is infinite because of his access to the multiverse as such the multiverse must be infinite - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #4.
• Rebirth: Anti-He-Man will cause suffering to infinite souls across the multiverse, agin implying that it is infinite in nature - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #6.

I have a lot more to discuss but I am busy at the moment so I will not be able to reply for a few hours. In my next post I will also address the new Pre-Crisis Herald scaling.

 

[Rgerdeena]

The scaling would mostly stay the same but the reasoning would be changed. Not to be rude, but the current justification using the Time Trapper is straight up wrong. Additionally as I have stated, Rebirth Superman scaling above Barbatos is a massive outlier.

Superman scaling above barbatos isn’t really an outlier since he varies, just no one else scales to it

The new feats for 2A Post-Crisis Heralds include the WillWorld Trial that all Green Lanterns must pass to become fully initiated into the Green Lantern Corps. I recall that in the story Hal Jordan has only had the ring for a few months (less than a year but more than half a year I don't remember the exact amount of time) as such ALL Green Lanterns by definition must be capable of performing the 2A Trial of Willworld:

Green lantern’s vary, regardless of whether or not their rookies, at best it’d be supporting evidence

The following is information compiled from my first large post that shows 2A statements for He-Man and his power source:

• Rebirth: The Orb of Horrors is stated to contain an infinite number of universes. The itself multiverse is said to contain a number of infinite universes. Each of these universes has its own Castle Grayskull and Orb of Power. The Anti world is the sole world in the multiverse where he is a force of pure evil and everything is backwards hence why the Orb of Power is now called the Orb of Horrors. (The He-Man content published by DC is directly part of the DC universe due to Hypertime and the crossover which directly connects back into He-Man’s comics) - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #1
• Rebirth: looking into The Orb of Power is described as the depths of infinity, given that the Orb of Horrors contains infinite universes, the Infinity of the Orb of Power also likely refers to infinite universes here - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #3. The Orb of Powers is said to be the nexus of all realities, the gateway to other realms and dimensions, and is the power that created the multiverse itself - He-Man/ThunderCats Vol1 #6.
• Rebirth: The Orb of Power is described as the nexus of all realities and the doorway to infinity. Implying again that the number of realities it has access to is infinite. Castle Grayskull also contains an infinite labyrinth inside itself - Injustice versus Masters of the Universe Vol1 #5.
• Rebirth: The nexus of all realities “shows every possible universe. Every choice is its own world. To step into the stream without a guide is to be swept into the currents of the multiverse and be uncreated.” Which we know there to be an infinite amount of universes. Superman when looking how to prevent the death of Lois sees billions of different realities with different outcomes - Injustice versus Masters of the Universe Vol1 #6.
• Rebirth: The reach of the Starseed in the hands of Anti-He-Man is infinite because of his access to the multiverse as such the multiverse must be infinite - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #4.
• Rebirth: Anti-He-Man will cause suffering to infinite souls across the multiverse, agin implying that it is infinite in nature - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #6.

Who scales to he-man?

The next feat for Post-Crisis is Superman fighting the Red King. The Red King is explicitly capable of performing a 2A feat and this is stated in 4 separate comic issues:

• The Red King states that he “ran infinite versions of myself through infinite probabilities” all of these were shown to be true genuine universes - JLA Classified Vol1 #33. This same EXACT comic panel with minute changes (three, then two, then one) is shown again in JLA Classified Vol1 #34 and JLA Classified Vol1 #35.
• The Red King states: “I CREATED INFINITE VERSIONS OF MYSELF, ALL LIVING IN INFINITE PROBABILITIES WITH THE SINGULAR GOAL OF WORLD DOMINATION. ALL BUT THREE OF THOSE PROBABILITIES ENDED IN FAILURE AND WERE ERADICATED. IN EACH OF THE REMAINING THREE, I DARRIN PROFITT--EVOLVED INTO THE RED KING. ON THIS EARTH, I BECAME A HERO--THE RECIPIENT OF WORSHIP AND ADULATION. LIFE IS BETTER THAN GOOD. IT'S PERFECT.” - JLA Classified Vol1 #3 (The text is all capitalized because I copied and pasted directly from the comic panel)

Like I already said Superman varies, so no one but him scales

 

[Bimgus8010]

Somewhat it seems like Invulnerability stuff is accepted in page. Well I have no problems if that

I am just implying it would be better to have better chainscaling redux(Cuz everyone scaling to peak makes me feel weird bit)

Our usual popular heralds have varies in their keys

Every lantern has varies key

Holds back ahh verse

Just add in at peak keys for them

 

[Bimgus8010]

The scaling would mostly stay the same but the reasoning would be changed. Not to be rude, but the current justification using the Time Trapper is straight up wrong. Additionally as I have stated, Rebirth Superman scaling above Barbatos is a massive outlier.

The new feats for 2A Post-Crisis Heralds include the WillWorld Trial that all Green Lanterns must pass to become fully initiated into the Green Lantern Corps. I recall that in the story Hal Jordan has only had the ring for a few months (less than a year but more than half a year I don't remember the exact amount of time) as such ALL Green Lanterns by definition must be capable of performing the 2A Trial of Willworld:

• For those that are not aware: WillWorld is a plane of existence contained within the Green Lantern Central Power Battery. It is an infinite sea of universes, where every thought instantly materializes into reality. Part of becoming a Green Lantern requires passing a test where one enters the Central Power Battery, creates their own universe, then project their consciousness into that universe, live in that universes, and then achieve awareness of their position in their self actualized reality, and finally upon realizing this become the master of WillWorld - Green Lantern Will World.

The next feat for Post-Crisis is Superman fighting the Red King. The Red King is explicitly capable of performing a 2A feat and this is stated in 4 separate comic issues:

• The Red King states that he “ran infinite versions of myself through infinite probabilities” all of these were shown to be true genuine universes - JLA Classified Vol1 #33. This same EXACT comic panel with minute changes (three, then two, then one) is shown again in JLA Classified Vol1 #34 and JLA Classified Vol1 #35.
• The Red King states: “I CREATED INFINITE VERSIONS OF MYSELF, ALL LIVING IN INFINITE PROBABILITIES WITH THE SINGULAR GOAL OF WORLD DOMINATION. ALL BUT THREE OF THOSE PROBABILITIES ENDED IN FAILURE AND WERE ERADICATED. IN EACH OF THE REMAINING THREE, I DARRIN PROFITT--EVOLVED INTO THE RED KING. ON THIS EARTH, I BECAME A HERO--THE RECIPIENT OF WORSHIP AND ADULATION. LIFE IS BETTER THAN GOOD. IT'S PERFECT.” - JLA Classified Vol1 #3 (The text is all capitalized because I copied and pasted directly from the comic panel)

The third feat comes from DC's publications of He-Man and Masters of the Universe:

• He-Man has very solid 2A feats via the Orb of Power and his connection to Castle Grayskull which are clearly 2A. The Orb of Horrors which is the anti version of the Orb of Power contains Infinite universes. Castle Grayskull contains an infinite labyrinth and at its center is the Orb of Power which contains all of the power of the Council of Elders. Control of the Eyes of Grayskull allows one to have control over the past, present, and future. The He-Man content published by DC comic directly scales to DC characters and is firmly established to be directly connected to DC via Hypertime. Hypertime as experienced by Skeletor is the EXACT same as Hypertime as described by the enormously powerful and cosmically knowledgeable Mr Mxyzptlk. Skeletor looking into Hypertime after being banished by John Constantine was a critical event in the Eternity War storyline as experiencing Hypertime showed him that every version of Skeletor loses. This pushes Skeletor to take drastic actions by becoming Death Incarnate he planned on killing everything because he reasons if he can never win, than nobody else can be allowed to win.

The following is information compiled from my first large post that shows 2A statements for He-Man and his power source:

• Rebirth: The Orb of Horrors is stated to contain an infinite number of universes. The itself multiverse is said to contain a number of infinite universes. Each of these universes has its own Castle Grayskull and Orb of Power. The Anti world is the sole world in the multiverse where he is a force of pure evil and everything is backwards hence why the Orb of Power is now called the Orb of Horrors. (The He-Man content published by DC is directly part of the DC universe due to Hypertime and the crossover which directly connects back into He-Man’s comics) - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #1
• Rebirth: looking into The Orb of Power is described as the depths of infinity, given that the Orb of Horrors contains infinite universes, the Infinity of the Orb of Power also likely refers to infinite universes here - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #3. The Orb of Powers is said to be the nexus of all realities, the gateway to other realms and dimensions, and is the power that created the multiverse itself - He-Man/ThunderCats Vol1 #6.
• Rebirth: The Orb of Power is described as the nexus of all realities and the doorway to infinity. Implying again that the number of realities it has access to is infinite. Castle Grayskull also contains an infinite labyrinth inside itself - Injustice versus Masters of the Universe Vol1 #5.
• Rebirth: The nexus of all realities “shows every possible universe. Every choice is its own world. To step into the stream without a guide is to be swept into the currents of the multiverse and be uncreated.” Which we know there to be an infinite amount of universes. Superman when looking how to prevent the death of Lois sees billions of different realities with different outcomes - Injustice versus Masters of the Universe Vol1 #6.
• Rebirth: The reach of the Starseed in the hands of Anti-He-Man is infinite because of his access to the multiverse as such the multiverse must be infinite - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #4.
• Rebirth: Anti-He-Man will cause suffering to infinite souls across the multiverse, agin implying that it is infinite in nature - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #6.

I have a lot more to discuss but I am busy at the moment so I will not be able to reply for a few hours. In my next post I will also address the new Pre-Crisis Herald scaling.

2A red king was planned to be in thread days ago that I was gonna made but my pookie @Hecky2222 will make it for me after 2 or 3 weeks for more 2A justifications

 

[Hecky2222]

2A red king was planned to be in thread days ago that I was gonna made but my pookie @Hecky2222 will make it for me after 2 or 3 weeks for more 2A justifications

if user wants to make better chainscaling redux while fixing current one

I am not against it

 

[Bimgus8010]

if user wants to make better chainscaling redux while fixing current one

I am not against it

He said he's busy so we, yes WE make it in my thread that you make

Il just send the scans like this one in discord and you can organize it when you make thread for more 2A justifications and maybe more stuff



2A central battery

 

[Antvasima]

The scaling would mostly stay the same but the reasoning would be changed. Not to be rude, but the current justification using the Time Trapper is straight up wrong. Additionally as I have stated, Rebirth Superman scaling above Barbatos is a massive outlier.

The new feats for 2A Post-Crisis Heralds include the WillWorld Trial that all Green Lanterns must pass to become fully initiated into the Green Lantern Corps. I recall that in the story Hal Jordan has only had the ring for a few months (less than a year but more than half a year I don't remember the exact amount of time) as such ALL Green Lanterns by definition must be capable of performing the 2A Trial of Willworld:

• For those that are not aware: WillWorld is a plane of existence contained within the Green Lantern Central Power Battery. It is an infinite sea of universes, where every thought instantly materializes into reality. Part of becoming a Green Lantern requires passing a test where one enters the Central Power Battery, creates their own universe, then project their consciousness into that universe, live in that universes, and then achieve awareness of their position in their self actualized reality, and finally upon realizing this become the master of WillWorld - Green Lantern Will World.

The next feat for Post-Crisis is Superman fighting the Red King. The Red King is explicitly capable of performing a 2A feat and this is stated in 4 separate comic issues:

• The Red King states that he “ran infinite versions of myself through infinite probabilities” all of these were shown to be true genuine universes - JLA Classified Vol1 #33. This same EXACT comic panel with minute changes (three, then two, then one) is shown again in JLA Classified Vol1 #34 and JLA Classified Vol1 #35.
• The Red King states: “I CREATED INFINITE VERSIONS OF MYSELF, ALL LIVING IN INFINITE PROBABILITIES WITH THE SINGULAR GOAL OF WORLD DOMINATION. ALL BUT THREE OF THOSE PROBABILITIES ENDED IN FAILURE AND WERE ERADICATED. IN EACH OF THE REMAINING THREE, I DARRIN PROFITT--EVOLVED INTO THE RED KING. ON THIS EARTH, I BECAME A HERO--THE RECIPIENT OF WORSHIP AND ADULATION. LIFE IS BETTER THAN GOOD. IT'S PERFECT.” - JLA Classified Vol1 #3 (The text is all capitalized because I copied and pasted directly from the comic panel)

The third feat comes from DC's publications of He-Man and Masters of the Universe:

• He-Man has very solid 2A feats via the Orb of Power and his connection to Castle Grayskull which are clearly 2A. The Orb of Horrors which is the anti version of the Orb of Power contains Infinite universes. Castle Grayskull contains an infinite labyrinth and at its center is the Orb of Power which contains all of the power of the Council of Elders. Control of the Eyes of Grayskull allows one to have control over the past, present, and future. The He-Man content published by DC comic directly scales to DC characters and is firmly established to be directly connected to DC via Hypertime. Hypertime as experienced by Skeletor is the EXACT same as Hypertime as described by the enormously powerful and cosmically knowledgeable Mr Mxyzptlk. Skeletor looking into Hypertime after being banished by John Constantine was a critical event in the Eternity War storyline as experiencing Hypertime showed him that every version of Skeletor loses. This pushes Skeletor to take drastic actions by becoming Death Incarnate he planned on killing everything because he reasons if he can never win, than nobody else can be allowed to win.

The following is information compiled from my first large post that shows 2A statements for He-Man and his power source:

• Rebirth: The Orb of Horrors is stated to contain an infinite number of universes. The itself multiverse is said to contain a number of infinite universes. Each of these universes has its own Castle Grayskull and Orb of Power. The Anti world is the sole world in the multiverse where he is a force of pure evil and everything is backwards hence why the Orb of Power is now called the Orb of Horrors. (The He-Man content published by DC is directly part of the DC universe due to Hypertime and the crossover which directly connects back into He-Man’s comics) - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #1
• Rebirth: looking into The Orb of Power is described as the depths of infinity, given that the Orb of Horrors contains infinite universes, the Infinity of the Orb of Power also likely refers to infinite universes here - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #3. The Orb of Powers is said to be the nexus of all realities, the gateway to other realms and dimensions, and is the power that created the multiverse itself - He-Man/ThunderCats Vol1 #6.
• Rebirth: The Orb of Power is described as the nexus of all realities and the doorway to infinity. Implying again that the number of realities it has access to is infinite. Castle Grayskull also contains an infinite labyrinth inside itself - Injustice versus Masters of the Universe Vol1 #5.
• Rebirth: The nexus of all realities “shows every possible universe. Every choice is its own world. To step into the stream without a guide is to be swept into the currents of the multiverse and be uncreated.” Which we know there to be an infinite amount of universes. Superman when looking how to prevent the death of Lois sees billions of different realities with different outcomes - Injustice versus Masters of the Universe Vol1 #6.
• Rebirth: The reach of the Starseed in the hands of Anti-He-Man is infinite because of his access to the multiverse as such the multiverse must be infinite - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #4.
• Rebirth: Anti-He-Man will cause suffering to infinite souls across the multiverse, agin implying that it is infinite in nature - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #6.

I have a lot more to discuss but I am busy at the moment so I will not be able to reply for a few hours. In my next post I will also address the new Pre-Crisis Herald scaling.

Just a note that we cannot scale most of our DC Comics characters based on a He-Man/Injustice crossover. Beyond that it is extremely unreliable, we have rules against it.

 

[Elizio33]

Regarding the feat from a dying Superman being able to punch Barbatos, the latter was chained inside Bat Castle, so he was clearly weak at that time or not as powerful as during his invasion. That said, I don't think this is an outlier, but it shouldn't be used to upscale Superman, because we don't know how powerful Barbatos was, even during Death Metal.

 

[Antvasima]

Regarding the feat from a dying Superman being able to punch Barbatos, the latter was chained inside Bat Castle, so he was clearly weak at that time or not as powerful as during his invasion. That said, I don't think this is an outlier, but it shouldn't be used to upscale Superman, because we don't know how powerful Barbatos was, even during Death Metal.

Well, Barbatos was severely weakened, but it was likely also an outlier.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Hey, so i was thinking about a "1-B, possibly High 1-B" (or High 1-B alone) material reality instead of a Low 1-A as i had previously stated because the previous claim for this tier is not sufficiently strong and is ambiguous. This would not affect the rest of the cosmology I'm currently developing, as other structures present strong evidence of much higher statistics. The DC Multiverse is consistently described as having a layered structure of levels of existence superseding one another.

For those who haven't opened the links, the High 1-B scan speaks of an infinity of dimensions, of worlds beyond worlds beyond worlds, which refers to an infinite-layered cosmology. This is consistent with other descriptions that appeared years later.

Anyway, my draft model is done. So anyone who wants to edit it and contribute are more than welcome.

Across infinite dimensions, alternate planes, and interlinked realms— including barren regions such as Limbo or The Bleed— matter, energy, and organisms both large and minuscule, all have the potential to reason, to compete, and to evolve. — The DC Book: A Vast and Vibrant Multiverse Simply Explained

Another potential source of infinite dimensions.

Was it really ? Because the quote "Worlds beyond worlds— beyond worlds..." clearly implies a layered cosmology of dimensions or planes of existence superseding one another.

Both of those "infinite dimensions" scans are invalid. Refer to these sections of this blog that @ProfectusInfinity and I have spent years editing.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ProfectusInfinity/DC_Cosmology_-_From_a_Profectus_Stance_on_the_Overall_Canon#Infinite-Dimensional_Planes_Of_A_Vibrant_Multiverse

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ProfectusInfinity/DC_Cosmology_-_From_a_Profectus_Stance_on_the_Overall_Canon#The_Spectre_and_Dr._Fate's_Infinite-Dimensional_BFR

 

[Elizio33]

Well, Barbatos was severely weakened, but it was likely also an outlier.

Superman was also dying at that time because he was infected with the Anti-Life Equation, so this feat is not that of an outlier, but it does not justify an upgrade either. In short, both were weakened and Barbatos was bound by chains made by the Over-Monitor since his previous defeat.

 

[Hecky2222]

I agree with Elizio here. Feat can't be outlier if Dark Multiverse has accepted Invulnerability but also it being huge reason is still strange. I hate it being only massive reason of chainscaling. So making better chainscaling won't hurt, meanwhile feats done by Barbatos himself would get "Higher" in AP section for this

 

[Elizio33]

I agree with Elizio here. Feat can't be outlier if Dark Multiverse has accepted Invulnerability but also it being huge reason is still strange. I hate it being only massive reason of chainscaling. So making better chainscaling won't hurt, meanwhile feats done by Barbatos himself would get "Higher" in AP section for this

The invulnerability of the inhabitants of the Dark Multiverse is strange, as beings from the Light Multiverse have managed to injure or harm them in stories after Dark Night: Metal. Maybe it works when the energies of the Dark Multiverse is around ? For example, King Shazam was not affected by the cosmic blast of Apex Predator Lex Luthor, as the Batman Who Laughs stated that the power Perpetua had given him had no effect on the energies of the Dark Multiverse.

Regarding Barbatos, Hawkman had managed to repel him from Earth in the past using his Nth Metal mace, but even this mace wasn't enough to defeat him during the second invasion, when Earth fell into the Dark Multiverse. Barbatos is therefore clearly more powerful in the Dark Multiverse than in the Light Multiverse. During Death Metal, Earth was conquered by the forces of the Dark Multiverse, but it nevertheless remained within the Multiverse, and Barbatos was inside the Bat Castle, weakened and chained. His invulnerability to positive matter therefore seems to be working when he is at full capacity, or when he is powered by the energies of the Dark Multiverse.

 

[TheBestBoi]

would this be considered as DC having infinite spatial dimensions

 

[Hecky2222]

Regarding Barbatos, Hawkman had managed to repel him from Earth in the past using his Nth Metal mace, but even this mace wasn't enough to defeat him during the second invasion, when Earth fell into the Dark Multiverse. Barbatos is therefore clearly more powerful in the Dark Multiverse than in the Light Multiverse. During Death Metal, Earth was conquered by the forces of the Dark Multiverse, but it nevertheless remained within the Multiverse, and Barbatos was inside the Bat Castle, weakened and chained. His invulnerability to positive matter therefore seems to be working when he is at full capacity, or when he is powered by the energies of the Dark Multiverse.

Well ye, punching character who lost Invulnerability isn't outlier and can be considered as feat.

But obviously we don't know what would be fight between top tier herald against full power Barbatos who isn't Invulnerable. So if we don't consider this feat as outlier, nor upscale for everyone and redux chainscaling via @PromptedElephant641 suggestions in near future. I think Barbatos being rated higher than ordinary 2-A/Low 1-C(here I mean ordinary ones are heralds in case if we agree with 2-A and more feats) somewhat can be consistent than assuming every herald is equal to Barbatos power

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

would this be considered as DC having infinite spatial dimensions

Millenium Fever is creator-owned.

 

[Da3ggman]

Hello All. This is my first post on the site but I am very familiar with its systems as I have more or less kept up with it since 2015. I plan to first start off by revising the lower ends of the DC cosmology and working my way up to the top. The following is a small excerpt from my Cosmology page that I have been working on. This section is on the regular positive matter multiverse. Forgive me for not attaching scans, but I made this in the notes app and since the totality of the document is well over 100,000 words at this point, it is very glitchy (since the notes app was only really made to support text of a few thousand words at maximum) and does not support images well and it would make the document unnecessarily long. I believe I have collected the largest most comprehensive list of infinite sized universe statements, infinite timelines statements, and infinite universes statements ever assembled for DC:

THE POSITIVE MATTER MULTIVERSE:

How Large is a Universe:
Universes in DC are Infinite in size. It should be very apparent by now given the number of statements. Here are a few dozen statements from all eras of DC comics demonstrating this point. It is not clear why people have randomly decided that DC universes are finite when there is so much evidence to the contrary. The main “barrier” to people excepting this is the literal barrier that encompasses all universes and every plane, dimension, and realm of the Divine Continuum: The Source Wall. Many think that because DC universes are surrounded by a wall they can not be infinite; however, the Source Wall does not act like a mere stone wall in a field. As mentioned, it is a transdimensional barrier that intersects EVERY level of creation in the Divine Continuum, and no matter what direction one is going, the Source Wall will ALWAYS be In front of them. This is directly stated by Takion - Jack Kirby's Fourth World Vol1 #18. There are a few randomly picked cherry picked figures that people use to justify the size of the DC universe as finite particularly a few from the Imperiex Our Worlds at War storyline. This will throughly disprove the claims that the DC universe is finite. The fact that the universe is infinite really does not change much in the grand scheme of things. The only thing that will change is that the upper end heard tiers will have infinite speed such as Superman and Green Lanterns at their maximum capacity. The only thing that needs to be considered from this change is who is actually deserving of infinite speed. This is still a work in progress especially since some eras of continuity are lacking in statements particularly the New 52. I am sure there are multiple statements of the universe being infinite in the New 52 but no one really reads the New 52 anymore and I do not particularly care for it so it is an empty section for now. In total there are (54) infinite sized universe statements so far.

Pre-Crisis (20):
The following Pre-Crisis feats in the {} are from: https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-pre-crisis-cosmology.189106/#post-7605060
{

• Pre-Crisis: “The universe is limitless and its paths to vice are infinite” - Adventure Comics #477.
• Pre-Crisis: The universe is infinite as experienced by Martian Manhunter - Justice League of America #257.
• Pre-Crisis: The universe is described as the vastness of infinity - Adventure Comics #318
• Pre-Crisis: Endless space - Adventure Comics #503
• Pre-Crisis: Infinite void of space - Mystery in Space #1
• Pre-Crisis: Infinite worlds - AMAZING WORLD OF DC COMICS #6
• Pre-Crisis: Space is infinite - Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane #28.
• Pre-Crisis: The universe is infinite - Mystery in Space #114.

}
This is another extremely useful collection within the brackets {} of Infinite sized universe statements. I have removed all the repeated statements mentioned in the first blog.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Ehnkr2beboh/Infinite_Sized_DC_Universe_Statements
{

• Pre-Crisis: The Narrator calls it Infinite - Action Comics Vol1 #63.
• Pre-Crisis: Stated by the Narrator to be an Infinite Void - Superman Vol1 #58.
• Pre-Crisis: The Narrator states the Cosmos is Infinite - Superman Vol1 #91.
• Pre-Crisis: Hal Jordan states the Universe is Infinite - Justice League of America Vol1 #80.
• Pre-Crisis: The Narrator states there to be Infinite Vastness - DC Comics Presents Vol1 #28.
• Pre-Crisis: The Universe contains limitless Darkness - DC Comics Presents Vol1 #29.
• Pre-Crisis: The narrator states the darkness of space is infinite and eternal. The Universe is called "The Infinite" - Tales of the Green Lantern Corps Vol1 #1.
• Pre-Crisis: The narrator states space and time are limitless - Arion Lord of Atlantis Vol1 #1.
• Pre-Crisis: The narrator states there is endless/limitless space- Superman Vol1 #397.
• Pre-Crisis: Superman later says there's infinite space - Superman Vol1 #397.
• Pre-Crisis: Trigon calls it endless - The New Teen Titans Vol2 #5.

}

• Pre-Crisis: Space is infinite - Green Lantern Vol2 #190.

Post-Crisis (23):
A fck ton of Post-Crisis statements within the brackets{} from this blog:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Ehnkr2beboh/Infinite_Sized_DC_Universe_Statements
{

• Post-Crisis: Infinity and the Universe are used interchangeably - History of the DC Universe Vol1 #1.
• Post-Crisis: The Universe is referred to as an Infinite Void - Secret Origins Vol2 #10.
• Post-Crisis: A GL who became one with the universe calls it infinite - Green Lantern Corps Vol1 #219.
• Post-Crisis: The Narrator calls space "The Infinite" - Millennium Vol1 #6
• Post-Crisis: It is a limitless cosmos - Justice League International Vol1 #18.
• Post-Crisis: The Greek Goddess Phoebe states space is infinite - New Titans Vol1 51.
• Post-Crisis: Hfuhruhurr (someone who traveled the cosmos) states the Universe is Infinite -Adventures of Superman Vol1 #452
• Post-Crisis: Orion states the Universe is Infinite - New Gods Vol3 #18
• Post-Crisis: Lar Grand states there's infinite space despite life-supply - New Gods Vol3 #19.
• Post-Crisis: Infinite Wonder - Superman Vol2 #65
• Post-Crisis: Cyborg Superman calls it an Infinite Void - Superman Vol2 #78.
• Post-Crisis: The Tribunal states there's Infinite Cosmos and Time- Superman Vol2 #106.
• Post-Crisis: There are Infinite gulfs of space - Superman: The Man of Tomorrow Vol1 #1000000.
• Post-Crisis: Kal's parents call it endless. Later, the Narrator calls it an endless void - Superman: The Last God of Krypton.
• Post-Crisis: Superman calls two Big Bangs two infinities. The narrator confirms these Big Bangs are Infinite - Action Comics Vol 1 #782.
• Post-Crisis: Space is infinitely bigger than Stars- Green Lantern Vol3 #165.
• Post-Crisis: The Universe is Endless - Superman: The Kansas Sighting Vol1 #1.
• Post-Crisis: Each Universe contains a variation of infinite heroes and villains - Countdown Vol1 #1.
• Post-Crisis: Libra states there is infinite space - Final Crisis: Secret Files Vol1 #1.

}

• Post-Crisis: Space contains endless darkness - Animal Man Vol1 #19.
• Post-Crisis: The universe is infinite - Mr. Majestic Vol #1.
• Post-Crisis: The universe is referred to as infinity - JLA: Another Nail #1.
• Post-Crisis: There are infinite worlds in the universe as stated by Lex Luthor - Action Comics #781.

New 52 (0):

• New 52:

Rebirth (4):
A few more statements from this blog {}:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Ehnkr2beboh/Infinite_Sized_DC_Universe_Statements
{

• Rebirth: A Teacher states the Universe is Infinite - Sideways Vol1 #1.
• Rebirth: The Narrator states it's infinite and expanding - Justice League Vol 4 Annual #1.
• Rebirth: An Endless Void - Superman Red and Blue Vol1 #3.

}

• Rebirth: Darkseid takes the Ghost Sector beyond the known universe, this is not an infinite universe statement but it does show that the universe that is normally shown is just the know portion. - Justice League Odyssey Vol1 #14,15,18,22. It is referred to as beyond the edge of the stable universe and the laws of physics are shown to be different. It is only here outside of the known universe that Epoch, Lord of Time can carry out his plans - Justice league Odyssey Vol1 #19. This portion of the universe is shown as being far beyond the normal universe. The regular part of the universe, such as where Earth is, is even described as the real universe by comparison - Justice League Odyssey Vol1 #25.

Post Death Metal (7):

• Space is seen as limitless and contains an infinite variety of planets / celestial bodies - The DC Book: A Vast and Vibrant Multiverse.
• Post Death Metal: The universe is referred to an infinity - Justice League Infinity Vol1 #1.
• Post Death Metal: The cosmos is infinite and the universe is referred to as infinity again - Justice League Infinity Vol1 #2.
• Post Death Metal: The universe is described as being an infinity - Superman vs Lobo #3.
• Post Death Metal: The universe is referred to as infinity - Justice League Infinity Vol1 #5.
• Post Death Metal: Universes are referred to as infinities - John Stewart: The Emerald Knight.
• Post Death Metal: The universe contains not just one but Infinite big bangs leading to an infinitely proliferating universe (This is a the quilted multiverse model or a Type 1 Multiverse. For the most part, stories in the DC universe take place within our Hubble Volume.) - Resurrection Man Quantum Karma #6.

How Many Timelines Per Universe:
There are at least an uncountably Infinite number of alternate timelines for EVERY universe. (Each universe is infinitely diverging at every point in time and there are an uncountably infinite number of points in any line segment, therefore there are an uncountably infinite number of alternate timelines.) Timelines are not the same as alternate universes or the quantum offshoot realities a universe produces from its spatial component and instead are all the infinite temporal possibilities that unfold from each point. The feat of affecting all timelines In a universe is low-1C (likely 1C as will be discussed later). Affecting all futures at any given POINT is a 2A feat. This is the low end interpretation but there is a strong potential for the total number of timelines generated from a single point on the timeline to be uncountable infinite and as such this could be a low-1C feat) Characters that directly scale to the ENTIRETY of an INDIVIDUAL universe’s timelines and as such are low-1C (or likely 1C as will be discussed later) in nature and include the Time Trapper and Infinite Man as well as Imperiex Prime. These three characters are the quintessential examples of beings that ACTUALLY scale to ALL the timelines of an individual universe. Examine their revised profiles to understand more about these beings. Statements regarding the number of timelines are much rarer than those about the number of universes as such at the moment I have only found (18) though there are definitely more out there that have not been documented yet. Statements on the number of timelines in general are quite difficult to find.

• NOTE: Just like with the number of universes section bolded statements are for uncountably infinite timelines
• Pre-Crisis (4): There are Infinite timelines - Warlord Vol1 #80.
• Pre-Crisis: Stated by the Time Trapper itself, there are Infinite timelines for EVERY POINT in time (making an uncountably infinite total number of timelines as there are uncountable infinite points in a line segment of ANY length) - Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes #223.
• Pre-Crisis: There are Infinite Corridors of time - Justice League of America Vol1 #100.
• Pre-Crisis: There are an infinity of possible worlds due to time travel. Time travel has caused the universe to be modified an infinite number of times - Mystery in Space #114.
• Post-Crisis (7): Time Trapper has access to ALL versions of the Legion of Super-Heroes. He says he access to an infinite number of Legions (these infinite legions are likely from different timelines rather than alternate universes as the Time Trapper is, as his name implies, a temporal being not a being of space and prefers to manipulate time rather than space) - Legion Of Super-Heroes Vol4 #105.
• Post-Crisis: There are Infinite timelines - Books of Magic Vol1 #4.
• Post-Crisis: There are Infinite paths in the Garden of Destiny that all souls must walk - DC Comics Encyclopedia.
• Post-Crisis: There are Infinite yesterdays and Infinite tomorrows - New Gods Vol3 #22.
• Post-Crisis: There are infinite possible future timelines - The Kingdom Vol1 #2.
• Post-Crisis: There are infinite timelines as stated by Liri Lee of the Linear Men - Superman: Our Worlds at War Secret Files and Origins.
• Post-Crisis: Plane Time is the plane made entirely of ALL timelines (easily making this an uncountably infinite total number of timelines) Cube time is a higher order of time perpendicular to Plane Time for higher dimensional beings in which the residence of plane time appear flat by comparison - Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne Vol1 #2
• New 52 (2): Every decision ever made creates new timelines making each person the center of their own universe - New 52: Futures End #33.
• new 52: There are countless tomorrows - Star Trek/Legion of Super-Heroes Vol1 #6.
• Rebirth (1): There are infinite futures as stated by a Brainiac who was amped by Perpetua to become Brainiac One Million - Justice League Vol4 #33.
• Post Death Metal (4): The Orphan Box has the ability to transcend The “infinite paths” these paths are likely references to timelines - Action Comics Vol1 #1044.
• Post Death Metal: Based on all of the information in the DC Book it can be assumed that there are infinite timelines - The DC Book.
• Post Death Metal: Hypertime is constantly growing and splintering, endlessly producing timelines, especially during moments of choice - Flashpoint Beyond Vol1 #5.
• Post Death Metal: There are constantly timelines diverging then converging back into a universe timeline via Hypertime - John Stewart: The Emerald Knight.

Interpretation of the Timeline Scaling: At the present, I rate the time half of the universe as low-1C (by definition equal to the space half ) for there being uncountable infinite timelines. There are, as stated, an uncountable infinite number of points in a line of any length, though there are statements of time being infinite - Time Master’s: Vanishing Point Vol1 #4. It is often described as an infinite stream - Armageddon 2001 Vol1 #1. As such, no matter how long a universe lives, it will have the same number of points in its’ timeline. At each point there are an infinite number of alternate timeline produced. However it is likely that in reality there are an uncountably infinite number of timelines produced at EACH POINT. That a Single Point in time is in itself low-1C and that the collection of all timelines produced in a universe is actually 1C. There is sound logic behind this interpretation. This would be because every point in the timeline produces infinite timelines and based off of how DC works, those timelines produce infinite timelines for each point in THEIR timeline and so on and so forth into infinity. This would create an infinity^infinity situation, which is equivalent to Aleph-1 since 2^aleph-0 is aleph-1. Extending this to the entire timeline of a universe, taking into account the uncountably infinite points in the timeline, this would make the time structure of the universe 1C (6D). This actually does make sense as there is ample evidence that this is how the spatial half of universes work (See the comic series The Next and Mr Miracle: The Source of Freedom). Since the time and space components are equal in nature, they would both end up being 1C (6D) if this interpretation is used.

How Many Universes:
In total there are more than an Uncountably Infinite number of universes. This has always been the case even in the Pre-Crisis Cosmology. This is the complete collection of all statements of there being infinite universes, uncountable or endless universes, and uncountably infinite universes in DC comics from all eras and there are likely many more from more obscure comics that have yet to be found by myself or documented and recorded in any existing online blog. At the moment there are 156 such statements. Such a vast number of statements easily disproves and negates any possible argument to the contrary. It would be appreciated that if anyone is aware of any other statements not included on this list to provide the comic citation such that I can check it and add it. I have been trying to get this list to 100+ infinite universe statements. At the moment The Post Death Metal continuity has by far the highest ratio of infinite universe statements to the number of years that said continuity paradigm has lasted. In the 6 or so years since the Death Metal ending there have been more than 30 such statements.

• NOTE: Many of the comics listed state that there are infinite universes/realities/worlds/earths/etc multiple times within the same issue. I only count this as one entry as I document these statements by unique comic book appearances and not how many statements in general. For example, one of these comics mentioned there being infinite realities 5 times but that was only counted as one entry. If half of DC’s infinite universe statements came from just one comic book issue this would make it less credible than from a variety of sources. There are exceptions to this rule such as the various DC comics encyclopedias.
• NOTE: With a few unique exceptions, I do not use the mere mention of the phrase / title / event “The Crisis on Infinite Earths” as proof of their being infinite universes and as such does not warrant an entry in this list. The reasoning for this is that mentioning that event does not provide any new information that we do not already know as the reader. 40 years later there are likely hundreds of name drops of the Crisis on Infinite Earths which would increase the length of this list immensely, but would add mostly worthless clutter. I try to find statements of characters directly stating that there are infinite universes / earths rather than a name drop of the the event “The Crisis on Infinite Earths”.
• NOTE: In the Pre-Crisis multiverse there were Infinite whole numbered Earths, but there were also Earths with fractional numbers, Earths with decimal numbers, and even Earths with letters or actual words for their designation. (See the Wikipedia page for the list of named Pre-Crisis universes) All in all there are an uncountably infinite number of possible Earths accounting for EVERY designation convention and alternate dimension. There are even irrationally and trancendental numbered earths such as an Earth-π and even stranger universes such as an Earth that is represented by a smiley face picture instead of a number or words. This shows that an Earth can be designated by pretty much anything - Ambush Bug Vol1 #3. There is an Earth-25G and an Earth-Q - Infinite Crisis Vol1 #6. There were also alternate dimensions like the Fifth Dimension that at this point in DC comics history was merely a universe with wacky magic centered around planet Zrfff just how regular universes are focused on Earth not a transcendent realm. Each Earth in the multiverse has its OWN corresponding Fifth Dimension as established in Superman Family Vol1 #208.
• NOTE: While it is well established and known, by definition, that there were infinite earths in the Pre-Crisis multiverse it is good to have any further statements from the era. A number of the Pre-Crisis statements come from the following thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-pre-crisis-cosmology.189106/#post-7605061 which was quite useful as it is hard to find Pre-Crisis feats. (This was before I found a few dozen other statements, but this was a useful start)
• NOTE: Statements of uncountably infinite universes are bolded.
• Pre-Crisis (42): There are infinite universes - Justice League of America Vol1 #244.
• Pre-Crisis: There are infinite universes - Captain Marvel Adventure #121.
• Pre-Crisis: There are infinite universes - Mystery in Space #114.
• Pre-Crisis: The Vortex on Kamandi’s Earth contains infinite realities with infinite versions of Kamandi. Furthermore it is said to contain “all possibilities” and “all eternities”. The voice of the Vortex itself (which is implied to be an exceptionally powerful higher power beyond the Sandman) states to Kamandi that he (Kamandi) is “the pivotal point of infinities uncountable”. It is also stated that there are “an infinite number of decisions” that Kamandi could have made and that The Voice of the Vortex says to Kamandi: “We shall meet again in infinity.” The Sandman states that the Vortex contains all space, time, and realities and that “In the Vortex, as in dreams, all things are real and possible.” - Kamandi: The Last Boy on Earth Vol1 #60,61. NOTE: issues 60 and 61 were cancelled and not printed until later published in Cancelled Comic Cavalcade Vol1 #2 and later in The Kamandi Challenge Vol1 Special #1. NOTE: The statement by the Voice of the Vortex could potentially be interpreted as an uncountably infinite universes statement, though it is not as explicit as other such statements in this list.
• Pre-Crisis: There are infinite universes - DC Comics Year By Year (New Edition) #213.
• Pre-Crisis: There are infinite universes - DC Greatest Events: Stories That Shook The Multiverse.
• Pre-Crisis: There are infinite universes as stated by Alexander Luthor Jr - Crisis on Infinite Earths Vol1 #5.
• Pre-Crisis: The first issue of Crisis on Infinite Earths states that “In the beginning there was only one. A single black infinitude.” In Crisis on Infinite Earths #11 after the universe is consolidated and reborn it states that “In the beginning there were many. A Multiversal infinitude.” Originally there was one universe but then because of Krona, there became an infinite amount. There used to be infinite universes but then there became just one after the destruction caused by the Anti-Monitor - Crisis on Infinite Earths Vol1 #11.
• Pre-Crisis: Psycho Pirate states he is the only one who remembers the infinite Earths - Crisis on Infinite Earths Vol1 #12.
• Pre-Crisis: The Anti-Monitor destroyed infinite universes during the Crisis on Infinite Earths - DC Comics Encyclopedia (Great Battles).
• Pre-Crisis: Pariah caused the Anti-Monitor to eradicate the infinite earths - DC Comics Encyclopedia: New Edition. (Entry: Pariah).
• Pre-Crisis: There were infinite universes as stated by Alexander Luthor Jr. Alexander Luthor Jr’s Multiversal map uploaded to the Anti-Monitor Tuning Fork Tower and Brother Eye / OMAC satellite contained infinite possibilities. (NOTE: Alexander Luthor Jr is easily the most the intelligent “normal human” in all of DC comics history being far smarter than any version of Lex Luthor (even the Pre-Crisis version that made a Time Machine out of random crap in his prison cell), Batman, Mr Terrific or any other smart characters and even wanked characters like The Batman Who Laughs. This definitely deserves giving him a profile. Only Alexander Luthor Jr is able to casually create a map of the entire Pre-Crisis Multiverse from memory to bring it back. Since Luthor didn’t bring anything with him into the Paradise Dimension, he must have been able to memorize the entirety of the infinite Pre-Crisis multiverse, giving him extreme high-end Supergenius intelligence bordering on the nigh-omniscient. Unlike Marvel, which has Mister Fantastic and Doctor Doom, DC does not have nor is it known for its super smart human characters but Alexander Luthor Jr might be straight up more intelligent than either of them (obviously Brainiac 5 is smarter than any of them but he is not human) ) - Tales from the Dark Multiverse: Infinite Crisis.
• Pre-Crisis: There are infinite Earths and an infinity of alternate realities - Crisis on Multiple Earths: Crossing Over Book#1.
• Pre-Crisis: There are an infinite number of existences - Justice League of America Vol1 #83.
• Pre-Crisis: There are countless parallel worlds - Justice League of America Vol1 #153.
• Pre-Crisis: There are an infinity of parallel worlds as stated by Dr Fate - Justice League of America Vol1 #207.
• Pre-Crisis: Pariah states that he has died in “an infinite series of cataclysms” likely referring to the Crisis on Infinite Earths - Supergirl Vol5 #19.
• Pre-Crisis: There are infinite universes - Superboy Vol1 #117.
• Pre-Crisis: There are infinite universes - Justice Society of America Vol3 #20.
• Pre-Crisis: There are infinite universes - Justice League Vol4 #27.
• Pre-Crisis: There are infinite alternate Earths (universes) an interesting thing about this issue is there is a statement by Wonder Woman in which she says the Adjudicator will destroy all Earths in this dimension as well in others implying that there is more than one Earth in the universe - Wonder Woman Vol1 #291.
• Pre-Crisis: There are Worlds beyond counting - Wonder Woman Vol1 #292.
• Pre-Crisis: There are infinite Earths (universes) and an infinity of universes - Wonder Woman Vol1 #293.
• Pre-Crisis: There are infinite worlds and infinite universes - Superman: Space Age Vol1 #1.
• Pre-Crisis: There are universes beyond number - Superman: Space Age Vol1 #2.
• Pre-Crisis: There are infinite universes with universes replicating throughout infinity - 52 Vol1 #2.
• Pre-Crisis: There are infinite universes - 52 Vol1 #3.
• Pre-Crisis: There are an infinite number of universes - 52 Vol1 #5.
• Pre-Crisis: There were an infinite number of universes - 52 Vol1 #6.
• Pre-Crisis: There were infinite worlds (universes) - Zero Hour: Crisis in Time Vol1 #4.
• Pre-Crisis: There were infinite universes - Countdown Vol1 #44.
• Pre-Crisis: The multiverse was unnumbered and infinite with infinite strands of creation - Infinite Crisis: Fight for the Multiverse Vol1 #1.
• Pre-Crisis: The Multiverse is an ocean of infinite worlds - Justice League Vol4 #22.
• Pre-Crisis: Dr Fate gets send through infinite dimensions - All-Star Squadron Vol1 #27.
• Pre-Crisis: Kulak the Sorcerer get sent through infinite dimensions (universes) and “worlds beyond worlds” - All-Star Squadron Vol1 #28.
• Pre-Crisis: There were infinite universes in the Pre-Crisis multiverse - these same scans which describe this are shown in both of the following, first in Justice League Incarnate Vol1 #4 and then again later in FCBD Dark Crisis Special Edition. They are the exact same panels so there is no need to include this statement twice.
• Pre-Crisis: There were infinite universes and Pariah survived their death - Justice League Vol4 #75.
• Pre-Crisis: Mr Mxyzptlk destroys all the infinite parallel universes, alternate realities, alternate universes, parallel dimensions, divergent futures, and all pasts and futures along with all numbered dimensions even the non whole numbered ones - Superman and Batman: World’s Funnest.
• Pre-Crisis: There were multiverse(s) and infinite Earths - Infinity Inc. Vol1 #32.
• Pre-Crisis: Ambush Bug states that there are worlds within worlds and laments the nature of the infinite earths given that it was difficult at this point in continuity to differentiate between all of the universes. It is directly shown that there is easily an uncountably infinite number of earths with there even being an Earth-π, an Earth-i, an Earth-, an Earth-, and an Earth- - Ambush Bug Vol1 #3.
• Pre-Crisis: For every possible decision there are universes where each and every alternative takes place. The multiverse contains every possibility. The differences between universes can range from non existent to no radically no similarities at all - DC Comics Presents Vol1 #51.
• Pre-Crisis: Skeletor has conquered universes beyond counting. The Power Sword can end the universe with but a thought and can make the multiverse itself tremble containing energies beyond imagining even to Skeletor who as stated has conquered universes beyond counting - Masters of the Universe Vol1 #3.
• Post-Crisis (40): There are infinite realities still existing via Hypertime - Superboy Vol4 #60.
• Post-Crisis: The title of the issue is “Superboy of two infinite worlds”. It is stated that there are infinite realities each with their own Hyper-Frequency - Superboy Vol4 #61.
• Post-Crisis: There are infinite realities / worlds / universes which is mentioned five times in this issue - Superboy Vol4 #62.
• Post-Crisis: It is stated directly on the cover “Infinite Worlds - - Infinite Doomsdays”. The realms of Hypertime are infinite. Exposure to the Hyperium reactor can erase every version of an individual throughout all of Hypertime at the same time - Superboy Vol4 #63.
• Post-Crisis: It is stated by Metron himself, twice, that there are infinite realms in Hypertime. The worlds in Hypertime are referred to as Elseworlds. Each one has a Hyper-Frequency - Superboy Vol4 #64.
• Post-Crisis: Hypertime is an infinite realm of alternate realities - Superboy Vol4 #65.
• Post-Crisis: The universe is part of a multiverse via Hypertime which is “an infinite realm of parallel worlds” - The Kingdom Vol1 #2.
• Post-Crisis: There are an infinity of alternate realities - Batman: Zero Hour. (Batman Vol1 #511).
• Post-Crisis: Every point of divergence creates new universes - Animal Man Vol1 #32.
• Post-Crisis: The multiverse is referred to as infinity twice (which makes sense because Earth-898, the Nail Universe, is part of its own alternate version of the Pre-Crisis Multiverse) - JLA: Another Nail #3.
• Post-Crisis: The Lord of Chaos Dominus creates and exposes Superman to an infinite multiverse - Action Comics Vol1 #748.
• Post-Crisis: Mr Mxyzptlk is given access to an infinite number of alternate supermen to select as his champion - Bizarro Comics.
• Post-Crisis: There are infinite realms within worlds (universes) and infinite limbos (this scan will be used in later sections for the sphere of the gods due to the infinite limbos) - The Spectre Vol2 #7.
• Post-Crisis: There are infinite alternate realities, universes and even hells (this scan will be also used in later sections for the sphere of the gods due to the infinite hells) - Adventures of Superman Vol1 #583.
• Post-Crisis: Every hope, fear, thought, and even dream manifest universes - The Spectre Vol4 #8.
• Post-Crisis: Every point of divergence creates alternate universes - The Spectre Vol4 #27.
• Post-Crisis: There are infinite Earths - Joker: Last Laugh Secret Files and Origins #1.
• Post-Crisis: In Wildstorm: Which is only a small part of DC, there are Infinite universes. This is stated twice in this issue - The Authority Vol3 #8.
• Post-Crisis: In Wildstorm: The bleed is described as “the infinite arterial wall between alternate universes” implying that there are infinite universes - The Authority Vol2 #10.
• Post-Crisis: In Windstorm: The bleed is described as infinite and it is where universes are spawned as such this would mean there are infinite universes - Planetary/The Authority: Ruling the World.
• Post-Crisis: In Wildstorm: The bleed is described as infinite. As established it is where universes are created as such there are infinite universes - Stormwatch: Team Achilles Vol1 #23.
• Post-Crisis: In Wildstorm: There are infinite universes, alternate realities, and higher dimensions - The Authority: Role-Playing Game And Resource Book.
• Post-Crisis: In Wildstorm: There are infinite universes within the Bleed. Alternate universes can be created by anything that has different probabilities of occurring. These new universes find their own frequency within the Bleed - The Monarchy #4.
• Post-Crisis: In Wildstorm: The Chimera is an Infinitely multiplying parallel world system - The Monarchy #10.
• Post-Crisis: In Wildstorm: The throne, the new base of the Monarchy, is capable of inoculating an infinite number of worlds across the reality web super system - The Monarchy #12
• Post-Crisis: The ABC universe: Like Wildstorm, The ABC universe is only a small part of DC (ABC is even smaller than Wildstorm) yet there are infinite universes - The Many Worlds of Tesla Strong.
• Post-Crisis: Vertigo: Vertigo is likely the most cosmologically significant sub-property of DC comics; however, there are not to my knowledge any direct statement of there being infinite universes in Vertigo. We can get there through other means though. The Dreaming contains an infinity of stories, stories as established in Vertigo are there own universes as such there are at least an infinite number of universes in Vertigo - The Dreaming Vol1 #60.
• Post-Crisis: Vertigo: Dreams as established many times in Vertigo/Sandman lore are their own universes and a single dream can be infinitely regressive - The Sandman Vol2 #15.
• Post-Crisis: Vertigo: In a random Vertigo realm, beetles roll infinitesimal bits of dung into entire universes - House of Mystery Vol2 #7.
• Post-Crisis: Vertigo: The most direct Vertigo statement is the infinite branching possibilities of the future. It is stated that many of these branches are stable and lead back to the same universe. However, that still leaves an infinite number of others that lead to separate universes - Books of Magic Vol1 #4.
• Post-Crisis: While moving through reality, an Elseworlds version of some heroes witness the birth and death of countless universes as well as traveling through “any number of spatial dimensions” - League of Justice Vol1 #2.
• Post-Crisis: The Brotherhood of Dada’s painting contains infinite recursive universes. There is NO degree of transcendence between these universes: neither dimensional transcendence (difference between 5D and 4D) and certainly not Qualitative. The painting merely seems to have access to infinite universes that are all at the same level of existence though you have to keep heading “further” or “deeper” into the painting to access more, all of the realities visited are ontologically equal in cosmological standing - Doom Patrol Vol2 #28,29.
• Post-Crisis: WillWorld is a plane of existence contained within the Green Lantern Central Power Battery. It is an infinite sea of universes, where ever thought instantly materializes. Part of becoming a Green Lantern requires passing a test where one enters the Central Power Battery, creates their own universe, then project their consciousness into that universe, live in that universes, and then achieve awareness of their position in their self actualized reality, and finally upon realizing this become the master of WillWorld - Green Lantern Will World.
• Post-Crisis: Hourman shattered the Worlogog throughout the multiverse as it was too dangerous for any one person to have and kept an infinitesimally small fragments for himself implying that there are infinite universes - JSA Vol1 #13,14.
• Post-Crisis: The ID shows Flash an infinity of possibilities - JLA Vol1 #54.
• Post-Crisis: The true nature of reality can be seen with the Metaverse in The Next comic run in which EVERY POINT for EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE at EVERY POINT of time produces infinite realities which then produce infinite realities and so on and so forth. This results in an uncountably infinite number of quantum offshoot universes throughout the entire span of just a SINGLE universe’s timeline - The Next Vol1 #5.
• Post-Crisis: The multiverse is a vibrating infinite plane - 52 Vol1 #4.
• Post-Crisis: The Red King “ran infinite versions of myself through infinite probabilities” all of these were shown to be true genuine universes - JLA Classified Vol1 #33. This same exact comic panel with minute changes (three, then two, then one) is shown again in JLA Classified Vol1 #34 and JLA Classified Vol1 #35.
• Post-Crisis: The Red King states: “I CREATED INFINITE VERSIONS OF MYSELF, ALL LIVING IN INFINITE PROBABILITIES WITH THE SINGULAR GOAL OF WORLD DOMINATION. ALL BUT THREE OF THOSE PROBABILITIES ENDED IN FAILURE AND WERE ERADICATED. IN EACH OF THE REMAINING THREE, I DARRIN PROFITT--EVOLVED INTO THE RED KING. ON THIS EARTH, I BECAME A HERO--THE RECIPIENT OF WORSHIP AND ADULATION. LIFE IS BETTER THAN GOOD. IT'S PERFECT.” - JLA Classified Vol1 #36.
• Post-Crisis: Even during the era of “The 52” where the idea of 52 universes was first introduced, with there supposedly being only 52 Universes in the multiverse as a result of the Infinite-Crisis, there were in reality an infinite amount - DC: The New Frontier Special #1.
• New 52 (19): There are innumerable dimensions (realities / universes) these include universes that are spiritual in nature and are not centered around an earth - DC Universe Presents Vol1 #2.
• New 52: Every point of divergence creates alternate universes - Before Watchmen: Dr Manhattan Vol1 #1.
• New 52: A single reality can fracture into infinite alternate possibilities - Before Watchmen: Dr Manhattan Vol1 #3.
• New 52: There are Infinite universes - Earth 2 Futures End #1.
• New 52: The multiverse is infinite “the world is a four dimensional construct in an infinite multiverse” - Batman and Robin Eternal Vol1 #16.
• New 52: There are infinite universes and the possibilities are endless - Star Trek/Legion of Super-Heroes Vol1 #6.
• New 52: Alternate universes are created for every action - Earth 2 Worlds End #1.
• New 52: Every action taken by H’el to revive Krypton creates new realities - Supergirl #24.
• New 52: The multiverse is endless - The Phantom Stranger Vol4 #4.
• New 52: The dimension of Trigon contains a bottomless ocean of universes - The Phantom Stranger Vol4 #6.
• New 52: There are boundless dimensions (universes) - Larfleeze Vol1 #3.
• New 52: There are infinite dimensions (universes) - Larfleeze Vol1 #4.
• New 52: There are infinite dimensions (universes) Larfleeze Vol1 #5.
• New 52: There are infinite universes - Justice League Dark Vol1 #33.
• New 52: Every moment creates new versions of oneself - Justice League Dark Vol1 #37.
• New 52: The “52 universes” are merely the collection of universes in the local multiverse - The Multiversity Guidebook Vol1 #1.
• New 52: This is easily the dumbest thing on this list but canonically Colonel Sanders, the mascot from KFC is literally a character in DC. There are, as the title of this issue implies, an infinite number of alternate Colonel Sanders including even ones from the planet Krypton as well as a Gorilla Grodd Colonel variant and one from the Teen Titans Go universe - KFC: Crisis of Infinite Colonels.
• New 52: The Convergence of Worlds involves infinite worlds from “every Crisis, Zero Hour, Elseworld, and more” - Convergence #0,1 (after the end of the comic).
• New 52: There are Infinite universes and the Pre-Crisis multiverse was successfully saved and restored by the actions of God Machine Brainiac at the end of the Convergence of Worlds event with characters such as Post-Crisis Superman and Lois Lane (who would return as the true Superman in Rebirth) and Zero Hour Parallax Hal Jordan being sent to the Crisis on Infinite Earths to avert its effects - Superman: Lois and Clark Vol1 #1 and Telos Vol1 #1.

Continuity Clarifications: The Convergence of Worlds Event canonized and restored ALL previous material; however, this was largely ignored by most writers. Eventually ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING DC was restored and integrated by the Hands themselves creating the Infinite Frontier / Divine Continuum / Local Omniverse. The TRUE Pre-Crisis Multiverse was fully restored AGAIN in the Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths. It was revealed that the Multiverse-2 that the Gentry of the Empty Hand were feeding on was the Pre-Crisis Multiverse - The Multiversity Vol1 #2. This means that the Gentry fed on the Pre-Crisis Multiverse AFTER it was restored by the Convergence of Worlds and that it REMAINED a carcass even after the creation of the Infinite Frontier / Divine Continuum / Local Omniverse (demonstrating the Empty Hand’s power, given that the damage that he inflected on the Pre-Crisis Multiverse could not be reversed by the Hands at the end of Death Metal until the Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths). It is possible with all of the times that the Pre-Crisis Multiverse has been restored, even such as the time in Animal Man with Psycho Pirate, that there are multiple if not infinite Pre-Crisis Multiverses in existence and that the one labeled as Multiverse-2 was the TRUE original one destroyed in the Crisis on Infinite Earths. This is DEFINITELY the case due to Hypertime. Given the nature of Hypertime, it is pretty much impossible to TRULY destroy a universe or multiverse in DC comics unless you are operating at a level significantly above baseline Sixth Dimension level (which contains the true form of Hypertime as created by the World Forger himself). There are very few characters that have direct involvement in the mainline DC continuity who are capable of such a feat. There are multiple instances where a universe or continuity or even an entire multiverse is destroyed only for it to appear in a later comic. This can easily be explained through Hypertime which provides a coherent explanation as to how this can happen. One such example is The Flashpoint world that was supposed to be erased but it came back. The Psycho Pirate fled to this world via Hypertime to attempt to avoid the Dark Crisis Event - Flashpoint Beyond Vol1 #3. This extends to entire multiverses that have been erased such as the Wildstorm multiverse which was erased by the Flashpoint, which integrated the Wildstorm characters from the Wildstorm universe (Earth-50 from Pre-Flashpoint, after the Flashpoint Earth-50 was the home of the Justice Lords) into Prime-Earth, only to be discovered to still exist - Outsiders Vol5 #6. “Hypertime is the Omniversal vault of life. Here, every alternate reality that has ever existed continues to function in an incomprehensibly vast gallery of probabilities.” - The DC Book: A Vast and Vibrant Multiverse. Omniverse here of course refers to the Divine Continuum and NOT the Greater Omniverse.

• Rebirth (21): There are infinite planes and possibilities - The Hellblazer Vol1 #3.
• Rebirth: There are infinite versions of a universe - Nightwing Vol4 #9.
• Rebirth: Mr Mxyzptlk says there are infinite universes (there are infinite variations of events playing out in different realities) - Action Comics Vol1 #975. The depiction of Hypertime here is identical to the version of Hypertime described by Skeletor in He-Man: The Eternity War Vol1 #5. Both of these depictions even include video game and action figure versions of the characters as valid canonical alternate realities (Mr Mxyzptlk and Skeletor).
• Rebirth: The Infinite Multiverse is mentioned - Action Comics Vol 1 #1000.
• Rebirth: Every point of divergence creates alternate universes. There have at times been endless parallel worlds to none at all - Doomsday Clock #10.
• Rebirth: Every time there is a change in the Metaverse, the Multiverse itself grows. Major changes cause divergences across the entire multiverse - Doomsday Clock #12.
• Rebirth: The end text says “Next: Four Dials on Infinite Earths” which of course would imply that there are infinite earths - Dial H for Hero Vol2 #9.
• Rebirth: The Adjudicator has seen incarnations of Batman and Black Canary throughout infinite realities and multiple multiversal cycles (Crisis Events): “I have watched Batman and Black Canaries don their mantles an infinite number of times, through the many cycles of the multiverse.” - Justice League of America Vol5 #25.
• Rebirth: There are countless Earths - Martian Manhunter/Marvin the Martian Special #1.
• Rebirth: Every point of divergence creates alternate universes - Lois Lane Vol2 #10.
• Rebirth: There is an entire artificial multiverse created by Metron containing infinite realities - Bug! Adventures of Forager #6. These universes are all impossible realities (universes that could not occur naturally without being made artificially) - Bug! Adventures of Forager #3.
• Rebirth: Exposure to the Bleed can fragment a person into infinite variations of themself. This extends even to the Three Monitor Brother’s themselves - Justice League Vol4 #31.
• Rebirth: There are universes beyond the 52 and as can be seen from this thread there are MORE than an infinite number of them (this is the first appearance of Earth-53) - Dark Knights Rising: The Wild Hunt Vol1 #1.
• Rebirth: There is not just 52 universes but an infinite number of them in fact there is a multiverse of multiverses (this is the second appearance of Earth-53) - The Unexpected Vol3 #7.
• Rebirth: Wally West Travels through infinite realities using the Mobius Chair searching for his children - DC Comics Encyclopedia: New Edition. (Entry: Metron).
• Rebirth: The Orb of Horrors is stated to contain an infinite number of universes. The itself multiverse is said to contain an number of infinite universes. Each of these universes has its own Castle Grayskull and Orb of Power. The Anti world is the sole world in the multiverse where he is a force of pure evil and everything is backwards hence why the Orb of Power is now called the Orb of Horrors. (The He-Man content published by DC is directly part of the DC universe due to Hypertime and the crossover which directly connects back into He-Man’s comics) - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #1
• Rebirth: looking into The Orb of Power is described as the depths of infinity, given that the Orb of Horrors contains infinite universes, the Infinity of the Orb of Power also likely refers to infinite universes here - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #3. The Orb of Powers is said to be the nexus of all realities, the gateway to other realms and dimensions, and is the power that created the multiverse itself - He-Man/ThunderCats Vol1 #6.
• Rebirth: The Orb of Power is described as the nexus of all realities and the doorway to infinity. Implying again that the number of realities it has access to is infinite. Castle Grayskull also contains an infinite labyrinth inside itself - Injustice versus Masters of the Universe Vol1 #5.
• Rebirth: The nexus of all realities “shows every possible universe. Every choice is its own world. To step into the stream without a guide is to be swept into the currents of the multiverse and be uncreated.” Which we know there to be an infinite amount of universes. Superman when looking how to prevent the death of Lois sees billions of different realities with different outcomes - Injustice versus Masters of the Universe Vol1 #6.
• Rebirth: The reach of the Starseed in the hands of Anti-He-Man is infinite because of his access to the multiverse as such the multiverse must be infinite - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #4.
• Rebirth: Anti-He-Man will cause suffering to infinite souls across the multiverse, agin implying that it is infinite in nature - He-Man and the Masters of the Multiverse Vol1 #6.
• Post Death Metal (34): There is an infinite multiverse containing all worlds, each unique, and all connected - Dark Nights: Death Metal Vol1 #4.
• Post Death Metal: The Local Multiverse is finally officially expanded to include infinite parallel universes and the Infinite Frontier / Local Omniverse / Divine Continuum is an infinite web of multiverses - Dark Nights: Death Metal Vol1 #7.
• Post Death Metal: There are infinite planes (universes) - The DC Book.
• Post Death Metal: There are uncountably infinite universes branching from each universe: “For every moment in the space-time continuum, there are an infinite number of parallel realities based upon an infinite number of decisions.” This is basically the same thing as the metaverse from the Next Comic series. This mechanic works for every universe in the Divine Continuum. For each universe, on top of having an uncountably infinite number of timelines (shown in the how many timelines section), there are also an uncountably infinite number of quantum offshoot realities each with their own “Quantum Frequency” - Mister Miracle: The Source of Freedom Vol1 #2.
• Post Death Metal: There are infinite universes. EVERY destroyed, missing, forgotten, and even retconned universe is brought back as part of the Infinite Frontier. ALL universes are canon even Elseworlds storylines - DC Greatest Events: Stories That Shook The Multiverse.
• Post Death Metal: There are infinite realities - Batman/Fortnite: The Zero Point cycles through countless realities every second and exposure to it results in one traveling to different realities for eternity - Foundation.
• Post Death Metal: Infinite realities - Batman/Fortnite: Zero Point Vol1 #5.
• Post Death Metal: The multiverse continues to expand without limit. Post Death Metal it is without boundaries and infinite possibilities. Darkseid states that it is infinite - Infinite Frontier Vol1 #0.
• Post Death Metal: Multiverse-2 (the true original Pre-Crisis multiverse) contains infinite worlds and it is Pariah’s goal to restore it - Infinite Frontier Vol1 #7.
• Post Death Metal: The multiverse has “an infinite future” - Justice League Incarnate Vol1 #1.
• Post Death Metal: There are infinite worlds (universes) - Justice League Incarnate Vol1 #2.
• Post Death Metal: There are infinite universes this is stated twice in this issue (this is the third appearance of Earth-53) - Dark Crisis: The Dark Army Vol1 #1.
• Post Death Metal: There are infinite universes (for some reason the writer of this story seems to have forgotten that Infinite universes was officially reintroduced at the end of Death Metal, as it is written as if this is a new revelation but that is not surprising given that the same thing happened after the end of Convergence) - Dark Crisis: Big Bang #1.
• Post Death Metal: Pariah’s goal is to restore the Infinite Earths of Multiverse-2 (which was not restored with the creation of the Divine Continuum) - Dark Crisis Vol1 #1.
• Post Death Metal: The infinite earths of Multiverse-2 are restored - Dark Crisis Vol1 #5.
• Post Death Metal: There are infinite earths in Multiverse-2 this is mentioned multiple times in this issue - Dark Crisis Vol1 #6.
• Post Death Metal: The infinite earths of Multiverse-2 are successfully restored and integrated with the rest of the Divine Continuum - Dark Crisis Vol1 #7.
• Post Death Metal: There are infinite Earths (universes) - Flashpoint Beyond Vol1 #5.
• Post Death Metal: There are infinite places beyond the universe to travel to - The Flash: One-Minute War Special #1.
• Post Death Metal: The events of Multiversity: Harley Quinn Harley Screws up the DCU are called the “Crisis on Infinite Origins” - Multiversity: Harley Quinn Screws up the DCU Vol1 #1. Later she meets with Harley Quinn’s from Injustice, her original cartoon version, Old Lady Harley Quinn, Bombshell Harley, and DCeased Harley. She meets versions of herself from “all different multiverses and timelines.” - Multiversity: Harley Quinn Screws up the DCU Vol1 #6.
• Post Death Metal: The multiverse is an infinite array of parallel worlds (universes) - Justice League Infinity Vol1 #3.
• Post Death Metal: There are even fractal dimensioned universes - Resurrection Man: Quantum Karma #2. Later, this “Fractal Keyverse” was used to restore the entire multiverse. As such a single part can be made into the whole ensemble - Resurrection Man: Quantum Karma #6.
• Post Death Metal: There are endless converging and diverging realities. Entire multiverses of universes are created from the divergences off of a single universe - John Stewart: The Emerald Knight.
• Post Death Metal: Even the original SplinteVerse from Zero Hour still exists. The multiverse has universes without count - Zero Hour: 30th Anniversary Special #1.
• Post Death Metal: There are infinite worlds (universes) - Batman Vol3 #134.
• Post Death Metal: There are infinite universes and the multiverse was restructured into an Omniverse (The Divine Continuum) - The New History of the DC Universe Vol1 #4.
• Post Death Metal: The multiverse is infinite - Outsiders Vol5 #6.
• Post Death Metal: The multiverse contains infinite variation - Outsiders Vol5 #9.
• Post Death Metal: There are an infinity of Earths (universes) as stated by Batman - Batman/Superman: World’s Finest Vol1 #11.
• Post Death Metal: There are infinite parallel Earths (universes) as stated by Barry Allen - Batman/Superman: World’s Finest Vol1 #20.
• Post Death Metal: There are infinite universes - Batman/Superman: World’s Finest Vol1 #23.
• Post Death Metal: There are infinite Batmen - Batman/Superman: World’s Finest Vol1 #28.
• Post Death Metal: There are infinite parallel realities - Batman/Superman: World's Finest Vol1 #49.
• Post Death Metal: There are Infinite Earths (universes) all having their own King Omega Tournament - DC KO #5.

Vibrations:
The universes of the multiverse have always occupied the same space but are separated by vibrations. Every universes has its own unique vibration. Sometimes a universe is only referred to simply as a vibration. Vibrations are mostly irrational in value providing further evidence for there being an uncountably infinite amount of universes as well as a framework to label them (by vibrational frequency).

• NOTE: There are likely hundreds of statements from Pre-Crisis to the present on the vibrational nature of reality. I kind of gave up on documenting them, but I easily encountered many dozens of them in Pre-Crisis alone while looking through comic books for various statements.
• Universes are separated by vibrational frequency and can be reached by changing one’s frequency - 52 Vol1 #52.
• Universes are separated by pitch. The Ultima Thule, the transdimensional yacht, travels between universes by changing frequencies and is literally powered by music - The Multiversity Vol1 #1
• The multiverse is a vibrating infinite plane - 52 Vol1 #4.
• The DC map of the local multiverse tell us that all universes vibrate in the same space but at different frequencies - The Multiversity Guidebook
• All universes, even in Pre-Crisis Continuity occupied the same space but vibrated at different frequencies - Infinite Crisis Vol1 #2.
• Universes have a specific vibrational frequency - Dark Crisis: Big Bang #1.
• Every universe has its own quantum frequency - Mister Miracle: The Source of Freedom Vol1 #2.
• All Earths occupy the same space but are separated only by quantum frequency - JLA: Another Nail #2.
• Vibrations are the only way to communicate across the multiverse - Dark Nights: Metal Vol1 #3.
• Earth omega is the “furthest” world - Infinite Frontier Vol1 #1. It has no vibration and no frequency - Infinite Frontier Vol1 #2.

Interpretation of the Universe Scaling: Looking at just the spatial structure of ONE universe, it is clear that each universe has an uncountably infinite number of quantum offshoot universes. This makes the spatial half of a single universe low-1C in its’ entirety. However as I explain in the timeline section, it may be that the entire spatial structure of the universe is actually 1C. This can be seen from the information in The Next and Mister Miracle: The Source of Freedom. These comics state that at each point an infinite number of quantum offshoot universes are created, but it doesn’t just stop there. Each of these quantum offshoot universes should then produce infinite quantum offshoot universes and so on and so forth on into infinity creating an infinity^infinity of universes which is equal to Aleph-1 since 2^aleph-0 is aleph-1. This would mean that at each moment there are uncountably infinite quantum offshoot universes produced warranting a low-1C rating for a single point in time. The entire spatial component of the universe is actually 1C (6D).
NOTE: In the temporal half of individual universes in DC offshoot realities are referred to as timelines. In the spatial half of DC offshoot realities are referred to as Quantum offshoots. While this is not an official DC designation, the phrase Quantum offshoot is used several times and is simply convenient terminology to use.
Interpretation of the Multiverse Scaling: The scaling of the multiverse depends on how the spatial and temporal halves of each universe is scaled. As established all the way back in Pre-Crisis continuity with Ambush Bug, there are an uncountably infinite amount of labeled main universes in the multiverse. Each of those universes is either low-1C (if it is accepted that at each point ONLY an infinite quantity of universes are produced) or 1C (if it is accepted that at each point an uncountably infinite number of universes are produced). Either way, the mainline DC multiverse would be 1C being equivalent to 6D in the first interpretation and 7D in the second interpretation.
NOTE: This scaling is ONLY in reference to the number of universes in the main DC multiverse and has no relation to higher dimensions. This means that the the 7D rating is obtained through the shear number of universes (and all of their alternate timelines and quantum offshoots) not for the number of dimensions. The issue of higher dimensions in DC is an entirely separate section.

Pre-Crisis 2A likely low-1C Feats and Post-Crisis 2A Herald Feats

• Pre-Crisis - 2A**: Energy from an unknown number of Green Lantern Rings was redirected by the Time Trapper to destroy all the timelines at a single point in time in the 30th century. This is of course the energy that Superman and Jaxon the Might counteracted with their own power.
• Pre-Crisis - 2A**: Superman restores infinite timelines by counteracting, with Jaxon the Mighty, the Green Lantern energy that destroyed them.
• Pre-Crisis - 2A**: Superman and Power Girl, while far weaker, could fight Maaldor. Maaldor is a being capable of draining the entire Green Lantern Central Power Battery and the Guardians of the universe as well as many Green Lanterns. The surviving Guardians state that he did all of this seemingly effortlessly.
• Pre-Crisis - 2A**: Superman performs a sort of brain surgery on Maaldor to prevent him from continuing to evolve into a cosmic emodiment of insanity. Superman does not scale to Maaldor in his state as a cosmic emodiment of insanity. As established, Superman and Power Girl together are weaker than a base level Maaldor Though they can survive an encounter with him.
• Post-Crisis - 2A: Superman fights the Red King a being who made infinite versions of himself and made them undergo infinite possibilities.
• Post-Crisis - 2A: Each Green Lantern must pass a trial that requires them to perform a 2A feat: to become the master of WillWorld an infinite reality of universes born from thoughts and dreams. Where every thought becomes its own universe.
• Post-Crisis - 2A: He-Man has very solid 2A feats via the Orb of Power and his connection to Castle Grayskull. The Orb of Horrors which is the anti version of the Orb of Power contains Infinite universes. Castle Grayskull contains an infinite labyrinth and at its center is the Orb of Power which contains all of the power of the Council of Elders. Control of the Eyes of Grayskull allows one to have control over the past, present, and future. The He-Man content published by DC scales to DC characters and is firmly established to be directly connected to DC via Hypertime. Hypertime as experienced by Skeletor is the exact same as Hypertime as described by the enormously powerful and cosmically knowledgeable Mr Mxyzptlk.
• Post-Crisis - low-1C likely 1C: Superman while sundipped (and amped by Kismet) pierced the shell of Imperiex Prime. (This does not count for Superman due to the amp of Kismet doing the heavy lifting here). I am only mentioning this feat here to prevent people from trying to sneak this in as reasoning to elevate Post-Crisis Superman even higher in the future.
• Post-Crisis - Not a tier feat (potentially immeasurable lifting strength): Despero overhead presses the Rock of Eternity. The Rock of Eternity is a magical nexus to all realms and is the center of the multiverse itself - JLA/JSA: Virtue and Vice.
• Pre-Crisis - Not a tier feat: Pre-Crisis Kryptonians and those that scale to or above should have immeasurable strength not only for being immensely superior to post crisis characters, but also having numerous feats of tearing holes in reality and tearing through reality to travel through time. For example, Krona teleports by ripping holes in the fabric of space itself.

NOTE: Post Crisis / Rebirth Superman should not scale to Pre-Crisis Kryptonians. He is clearly far below Pre-Crisis Superman in both speed and destructive capacity. Pre-Crisis Kryptonians can achieve immeasurable speeds as easily as a normal person can tie their shoes. To a Pre-Crisis Kryptonian traveling at immeasurable speeds is not of any significance.
NOTE: Feats with (**) have the very likely potential of being rated as low-1C.
NOTE: The people who currently scale to 2A need to be revised and made into a more exclusive and consisted group. Right now we have people like Post-Crisis Aquaman who have a 2A rating without any feats near that level at least that I know of.
NOTE: The output of a Green Lantern varies immensely based on concentration and will power as such, while ALL Green Lanterns must perform a 2A feat early on in their career to be imitated into the Green Lantern Corps as seen in the Will World story, they are not always using 2A force. In fact they almost certainly are not in the vast majority of situations.
NOTE: The only way to get Post-Crisis Superman to low-1C scaling is by accepting the Pre-Crisis Green Lantern Rings feat as low-1C. This is very much reasonable and is my personal interpretation, but I have provided a lower 2A reasoning if others do not see it that way. This would allow for scaling to Post-Crisis Green Lanterns as their history was not changed after the Crisis on Infinite Earths. This is very much a plausible possibility as is explained in the Notes section for bother the number of universes and the number of timelines per universe section.

Things that Heralds Do NOT scale to

• Post Death Metal: Superman punching out a chained Barbatos cannot be used. Barbatos is clearly diminished to an incompressible degree here. Even if not, it would be a massive outlier given the scale of the threat Barbatos posed during Dark Nights: Metal. Superman could not one punch Barbatos even under the best of conditions. This is obviously an outlier. Post Crisis / Rebirth Superman already has high level feats in the 2A range, this outlier does not need to be used as justification.
• Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis: Superman doesn’t scale to the Time Trapper in any way shape or form. Time Trapper is a cosmic being vastly above herald tier characters. The fact that Superman and The Legion of Super Heroes could so easily effect the Time Trapper in Final Crisis Legion of Three Worlds is a massive inconsistency and not at all representative of his usual depictions.
• Pre-Crisis: Supergirl damaging the Anti-Monitor is an outlier far above what has been shown to be the limits of Pre-Crisis Kryptonians.
• Pre-Crisis: Superman does not scale to Maaldor in his state as the Cosmic Embodiment of Madness. He downscales from Maaldor's normal state as even in this form, he is significantly stronger than Superman and Powergirl combined. This is further displayed by the fact that he could defeat the combined forces of the entire Green Lantern Corps along with the Guardians of the Universe themselves and drain and absorb the Central Power Battery.

Jesus Christ it’s beatiful

 

[Antvasima]

Superman was also dying at that time because he was infected with the Anti-Life Equation, so this feat is not that of an outlier, but it does not justify an upgrade either. In short, both were weakened and Barbatos was bound by chains made by the Over-Monitor since his previous defeat.

That seems reasonable. We should simply disregard that feat and write a brief rule about it on a Superman page then.

Regardless, based on the recent discussion here, we need to figure out how to properly rescale our DC Comics characters, without basing it on He-Man or other crossovers, in concrete and reliable practical terms.

 

[Bimgus8010]

Hal Jordan sent tremors across the entire emotional spectrum
(Hal Jordan and the green lantern corps : rebirth)

Which has been called an infinite web of interlinked planes and realms (infinite planes should at least Indicate infinite realities, thus 2A)
( The DC Book: A Vast and Vibrant Multiverse Simply)

Ion hosts like ion Kyle rayner can recharge the entire central power battery (green lantern 1990 issue 150)


Inside the central power battery is an infinite sea with infinite bubbles that contains universes (green lantern : willworld)


Pre crisis superman fight with Jaxon cause generations of power and energies to restore all but 1 deleted futures done by the time trapper who used x amounts of green lantern rings to destroy all but 1 possible future ( superman 1939 issue 295 )

Post crisis superman staggering the red king while weakened with virus
https://imgur.com/a/XCe0fzg ( JLA: classified issue 35 )

Red king made infinite possibilities of realities and eradicated them https://imgur.com/a/o8C5Lwn ( JLA: classified issue 36 )

 

[Osemere]

Related, this blog has some interesting scans and a pretty scathing critique of what the wiki has done so far, even if it’s somewhat inscrutable (obviously not written by a native English speaker)

https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Leijona-Sininen/DC_Cosmology:_Absolute_Guideline_of_Hypertime_%26_Fifth_Dimension_(Grant_Morrison)

Maybe someone else can get something more out of it than me.

 

[KirbyFan03]

Related, this blog has some interesting scans and a pretty scathing critique of what the wiki has done so far, even if it’s somewhat inscrutable (obviously not written by a native English speaker)

https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Leijona-Sininen/DC_Cosmology:_Absolute_Guideline_of_Hypertime_%26_Fifth_Dimension_(Grant_Morrison)

Maybe someone else can get something more out of it than me.

Almost 400 references!?!? If anything the sheer dedication itself is worth a read

 

[Antvasima]

What do you think @Elizio33 ? Is any of the information there useful to base any revisions on for us?

 

[PromptedElephant641]

Response to 2A Post-Crisis Stuff from earlier:
The reason why I included the He-Man information in my previous post as further evidence for Post-Crisis 2A herald characters is multifold. Firstly, Masters of the Universe was licensed for publication by DC at the time so it is not as if the crossover was occurring between two separate publishers. Secondly, and more importantly, because the events of the DC cross over directly impact the corresponding Masters of the Universe comic that was being published at the time: Eternity War. As I stated in the previous post, in issue 5 of Eternity War, Skeletor directly states how his banishment into Hypertime by John Constantine (who is shown by image and not named because Skeleton does not know who John Constantine is of course) has radically altered his outlook on reality and has driven him to insanity as later in the Eternity War series he is driven to end everything since he sees in Hypertime that there is NO reality in which he ever wins. Thirdly, the crossover actually scales to New 52 Superman not Post-Crisis. This is important because while New 52 Superman and other New 52 characters do not show the same level of feats as their Pre Flashpoint versions, they really should not be AS far behind from them as they are currently depicted on this wiki. It is worth mentioning that this is most likely simply a result of the New-52 only lasting from 2011 to 2016. When Doctor Manhattan removed 10 years of history and erased the Justice Society of America this results in New-Earth becoming Prime-Earth creating the New-52. Removing 10 years of history should not necessarily prevent Superman from being 2A at maximum in the New-52. It is important to remember that Prime-Earth IS New-Earth but with the time manipulations of Doctor Manhattan. Now I understand the counter argument that Superman in the New-52 simply has not had time to grow into 2A power levels the way he does in Post-Crisis, but I think, at the very least, it should be considered. My last point is on crossover in general, I agree that crossovers should almost never be used and am aware of the rues on this site; however, like with most things there are exceptions and I think there is plenty of evidence here to show that this is one of them. Another example of the events of a crossover being cannon to a character is Krona who at the end of JLA/Avengers ends up inside a Cosmic Egg, this plot line directly carries over into the story of Trinity Volume 1.

Pre-Crisis low-1C Superman Tier beings Revisions
The following section is reposted from my first post:

• Pre-Crisis - low-1C: Energy from an unknown number of Green Lantern Rings was redirected by the Time Trapper to destroy all the timelines at a SINGLE POINT in time in the 30th century. This is of course the energy that Superman and Jaxon the Might counteracted with their own power.
• Pre-Crisis - low-1C: Superman restores all the erased timelines in the previous feat by counteracting the Green Lantern energy when fighting with Jaxon the Mighty.
• Pre-Crisis - low-1C: Superman and Power Girl, while far weaker, could fight Maaldor. Maaldor is a being capable of draining the entire Green Lantern Central Power Battery and the Guardians of the universe as well as many Green Lanterns. The surviving Guardians state that he did all of this seemingly effortlessly.
• Pre-Crisis - low-1C: Superman performs a sort of brain surgery on Maaldor to prevent him from continuing to evolve into a cosmic embodiment of insanity. Superman does not scale to Maaldor in his state as a cosmic emodiment of insanity. As established, Superman and Power Girl together are weaker than a base level Maaldor Though they can survive an encounter with him.

NOTE: Post Crisis / Rebirth Superman should not scale to Pre-Crisis Kryptonians. He is clearly far below Pre-Crisis Superman in both speed and destructive capacity. Pre-Crisis Kryptonians can achieve immeasurable speeds as easily as a normal person can tie their shoes. To a Pre-Crisis Kryptonian traveling at immeasurable speeds is not of any significance.
NOTE: The only way to get Post-Crisis Superman to low-1C scaling is by accepting the Pre-Crisis Green Lantern Rings feat as low-1C. This is very much reasonable and is my personal interpretation of the total number of timelines produced at just ONE point after having complied practically every statement of the number of universes and number of timelines in the entire publishing history of DC Comics. This would allow for scaling to Post-Crisis Green Lanterns as their history was not changed after the Crisis on Infinite Earths. Post-Crisis Superman and others would still be immensely inferior to Pre-Crisis Kryptonians.

Pre-Crisis Superman - low-1C: Pre-Crisis Silver Age Superman almost never operates at the peak of his power or go all out against his opponents. He is, in general, an even bigger boy scout goody two shoes than his more modern version, oftentimes to a comedic and simplistic degree, and would almost never risk harming anyone. Though this attitude does vary immensely, though for the most part Pre-Crisis heroes like Superman are purely good people (the way he is supposed to be). In one of Superman’s most notable feats, The Time Trapper redirected the energy from an unknown number of green lantern rings to destroy all possible future timelines (at a certain point in the 30th century), of which there are infinite (uncountably infinite in total), except for one. The clash between Superman and Jaxon the Mighty released enough energy to counter the energy of the rings, therefore restoring all possible future timelines. After this happened, the future with the Legion exists in the main timeline and the future where Superman meets with Jaxon exists in another timeline - Superman #295. Another of Pre-Crisis Superman’s greatest feat is when he alongside Powergirl clashed with Maaldor the Dark Lord. While definitely weaker, they still managed to fight him. When Maaldor turned his power in on himself he turned into a new plane of existence, Superman and Powergirl seal the rift between his dimension of insanity and all other realities. They admit that this is only a temporary measure and that he will escape and threaten all other dimensions which he does - DC Comics Presents Vol1 #56. The base form of Maaldor is a being who can, without too much difficulty, take on the Green Lantern Corps and the Guardians of the Universe and absorb the entirety of the Green Lantern Central Power Battery.
NOTE: The Time Trapper released the Green Lantern energy into the timeline at just ONE POINT in time in the 30th century as such Superman only cancelled out low-1C destructive power for restoring uncountably infinite timelines and NOT the entire timeline of Earth-One. The total number of timelines produced from a Single Point in time is low-1C and that the collection of all timelines produced in a universe is 1C (6D). This is because every point in the timeline produces infinite timelines and based off of how timelines work in DC, those timelines go onto produce infinite timelines for each point in time and so on and so forth on into infinity. This would create an infinite^infinite situation, which is equivalent to Aleph-1 since 2^aleph-0 is aleph-1. Extending this to the entire timeline of a universe, taking into account the uncountably infinite points in the timeline of the universe, this would make the complete set of all timelines of one universe 1C (6D). This makes Pre-Crisis Superman low-1C.
NOTE: Do not scale Pre-Crisis Kryptonians to their post crisis and beyond counterparts. Pre-Crisis Kryptonians, even a young Superboy, can effortlessly travel through time through sheer speed alone, doing so on numerous occasions. In general almost everything done by Pre-Crisis Kryptonians is done extremely casually, eccept when facing the most powerful of enemies.The reboot made Superman less cheesy and cartoony, making him more serious and "realistic" but still a pillar of morality. These changes meant no more heroes winning easily ALL the time and of course no more “silly powers” like the ability to time travel casually. Ever since the Crisis on Infinite Earths, Superman lost the capability to travel at immeasurable speeds and move through time. This became a unique ability attributed solely with the flash family. In Pre-Crisis Superman stories, including in the same issue in which he fights against Jaxon the Mighty: Superman looks at his time viewing computer, sees that time has changed in the future 30th century on his “time-screen”, and then casually flies through time into the future “as he has done so many time before”. In that same issue, Superman cracking the time barrier is described as both a feat of speed and strength (immeasurable strength feet by the way). Him fixing the timeline was also seen as a feat of physical strength as well (more evidence of immeasurable strength). Post Crisis Superman even admits to the difference between himself and his Pre-Crisis version when he interacts with Superboy from the Time Trapper’s personal timeline in Action Comics #591. During this encounter Superboy easily time travels via speed and Superman, even straining, cannot keep up with him even before he enters time traveling speed. Superman admits Superboy is stronger and faster remaking that Superboy could grab a lead kryptonite canister out of his hand before he could even see him move. Another difference that is highlighted is in Pre-Crisis continuity, Superboy/Superman’s costume, particularly his special cape, is totally indestructible. This is brought up when Krypto, who Superman no longer grew up with in Post-Crisis, easily rips Superman’s cape - Action Comics #591. Some legion member remark on Superman being physically weaker than Superboy and not having his invulnerability either - Superman Vol2 #8. There are massive thematic differences between the Pre and Post Crisis era that led to a reduction in Kryptonian power levels. This is partially why Superboy Prime is driven crazy as he watches from the paradise dimension an earth that is totally immoral compared to the continuity that he came from where everything was heroic and even the villains were not nearly as evil as their Post Crisis counterparts. Though it should be noted that while Superboy Prime scales to any and all feats of Pre-Crisis Kryptonians, the Pre-Crisis Kryptonians CANNOT scale to Superboy Prime due to his unique characteristics. Much like how all squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares. In this case Superboy Prime is the “square” and standard Kryptonians like Superman are the “rectangle”. Compared to Post Crisis, there are very few villains that can actually challenege Superman let alone pose a real threat. Fewer still are those who are outright stronger: this small list includes Darkseid, Validius, Mongul, Time Trapper, and Mordru and a few other lesser know beings. These lesser know beings are mostly one off villains who in a few comic issues and were never fleshed out.

Maaldor The Darklord - low-1C normally | 1C (7D) as a cosmic embodiment of insanity: Maaldor is an immortal being who was born at the moment of creation of his universe. He is described as nigh-omnipotent in his history section and omnipotent in his powers section, both of which are obviously hyperbolic, but is a testament to his power. He conquered his entire universe and grew bored lacking any challenges. He summoned Superman and Powergirl from both their universe to his universe to fight “two of the most powerful beings in the multiverse” but even they were not great enough to provide a worthy challenge. Superman and Powergirl only survive by Superman tricking Maaldor to focus his powers back at him becoming a living universe and a cosmic embodiment of insanity and evil - Who's Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe Vol1 #14, DC Comics Presents Vol1 #56. The next time he is seen he attempts to drive Superman into insanity by tormenting him with nightmares, making his face his greatest fears, and even mind controlling him - DC Comics Presents Vol1 #65. Eventually the madness of Maaldor undoes the barrier between his living universe of insanity and the rest of the multiverse. If not for the Phantom Stranger, Superman, and Joker working together to fix the damaged portion of Maaldor’s consciousness, it would have destroyed the multiverse itself - DC Comics Presents Vol1 #72. In his final appearance he appears to have gone back to his normal form and drains and absorbs the energy of the Green Lantern Central Power Battery. While absorbing the battery, he overpowered the Guardians of the Universe, all of their defenses, and took three guardians with him. The surviving guardians describe this as something he did effortlessly. His mind control is powerful enough to control individuals with great will power including Green Lanterns and even Guardians. He can easily absorb the Green Lantern Energy out of both Guardians and Lanterns. It was only through sacrifice that Maaldor was banished back to his dimension - Tales of the Green Lantern Corps Annual Vol1 #1, Who's Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe Vol1 #14.
NOTE: Refer back to my first post on the previous page (Page 161 of this discussion thread) to see more on the nature of the universe and the multiverse.

Random Pre-Crisis Villains physically equal or superior to Superman - low-1C:

• Vartox: ~ 1X Superman
• Pulsar Stargrave: ~ 1X Superman
• Composite Superman: ~ 3X Superman
• Ultraa: at least 3X Superman (is stronger than all the Justice League members combined)
• Zha-Vam: far above Superman, could only be defeated once Superman got his own gods empowered belt
• Validus: At least 12X Superboy, he could temporarily hold off a Sun Eater with his mental lightning can easily overpower Ultra Boy, Superboy, and Mon-El at the same time
• Omega: Even Stronger than Validus
• Sun Eaters: powerful cosmic star vampires
• Starbreaker: an evolved Sun-Eater. Considered the most powerful being in the galaxy and can become stronger with energy absorption.

More Pre-Crisis Content
The following is mainly to revise the bad Time trapper profile that currently exists and to crush and belief that Superman, even the Pre-Crisis version, could ever scale to him.

The Time Trapper - universal incarnations - 1C (6D) | Multiversal incarnation - 1C (7D) | Full Extent - low-1A : The Time Trapper, as his name implies, is an extremely powerful time manipulator. He is the embodiment of all time (particularly time with a final ending) and his citadel at the end of time is untouched by time or space - Action Comics #591. He is described as a cosmically powerful entity - Legion Of Super-Heroes Vol4 #108. His realm, the very last moment in all of time, is volatile enough that even Doomsday is granted a death here that even he can never recover from and would only later be saved by Brainiac plucking him out of the timestream just before the point of final entropy - Superman/Doomsday Hunter/Pray #3. [The Vanishing Point, the head quarters of the Linear Men is also in Time Trapper’s domain kept eternally suspended at the final moment of time]. Parallax states that at the end of time, if you have the power and knowledge, you can “look back on all that is and all that was and change it.” - Zero Hour: Crisis in Time Vol1 #4. Time Trapper can manipulate ALL time lines of the universe - Legion Of Super-Heroes Vol4 #4. Time Trapper himself has directly stated that there are Infinite time lines made for EVERY POINT in time. He oversees all of these infinite future timelines using his special Omni-computer - Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes #223. Time Trapper has access to ALL versions of the Legion of Super-Heroes. He says he access to an infinite number of Legions - Legion Of Super-Heroes Vol4 #105. He can make any moment in time its own separate universe - Legion Of Super-Heroes Vol4 #105. This is how he made the separate universe in which he preserved the history of Superboy. Superboy was removed from continuity after the Crisis on Infinite Earths. Superman first started wearing a costume as Superman in the new continuity when he was an adult, likely in his mid twenties no longer donning his costume as a boy like in Pre-Crisis. Despite this, the history and legacy of Superboy persisted due to the Time Trapper warping all timelines so the Legion would always end up in the timeline of the preserved Superboy’s universe whenever anyone travelled back in time. These actions prevented making paradox that would result in the Legion of Superheroes never coming into existence since they were inspired by the acts of Superboy - Action Comics #591. He redirected the energy from an unknown number of green lantern rings into ONE point in time to destroy all but one possible future timeline which, as established, there are an infinite (likely uncountably infinite) number of them for every point in time - Superman #295. The Time Trapper alongside his arch-rival Mordru are two of the most powerful villains from the Pre-Crisis Continuity and much of the Time Trapper’s schemes revolve around preventing the rise of Mordru or containing his reign. Ultimately such things are practically hobbies to the Time Trapper who is content to rule forever in his moment of ultimate victory: the end of time itself - Legion Of Super-Heroes Vol4 #4. Time Trapper knows pretty much everything and there is not much that surprises him, everything is preordained from his perspective and is fully aware of Parallax’s efforts to track him down and kill him. Even though he knows he is going to be killed he is aware that ultimately he will live on as he always does - Zero Hour: Crisis in Time Vol1 #1. The Time Trapper seemingly has different levels as the version that is typically seen exclusively meddles with the Earth-One / New-Earth / Prime Earth reality and not the rest of the multiverse. | Multiversal variant - 1C (7D): The Time Trapper is seemingly a multiverse spanning being and has resisted the effects of Crisis events. “The Time Trapper is a sentient force resident at the end of space/time. An aspect of cosmic entropy, it easily weathers the dramatic changes wrought by reality-revisions such as the Infinite Crisis and Zero Hour. Each time the Multiverse has changed or shifted, the Trapper has been personified by a new being. Previous examples have included: Cosmic Man, Rokk Krinn; Time Witch, Glorith; a Malthusian Controller, Lori Morning; and even the psychotic Superboy-Prime.” - DC Comics Encyclopedia: New Edition. (Entry: Time Trapper). Likely due to his nature and his immense chronal powers, he was not directly impacted by the Crisis on Infinite Earths as well as the fact that he exists outside of normal dimensionality so he “sidestepped” the effects of The Crisis on Infinite Earths - Action Comics #595. | low-1A: At his greatest capacity as a manifestation of the Timestream itself, he could be rated this high as the truest version of it’s self. (Such a key may not be justified as it is merely speculation that his status as an important component of the Timestream would grant him this level of existence). This key could just be merged with his multiverse spanning key as an upper bound to his power so instead the multiverse spanning key would read: 1C (7D) possibly low-1A.
NOTE: Other than manipulating time, Time Trappers most notable power is the fact that it is essentially impossible for him to be erased. Even when more powerful forces eliminate him, he always remains. He has been erased only to reappear, he has been killed but this can never last, he has even been usurped only for the usurper to be transformed into the Time Trapper. The Time Trapper has no real identity and it has worn the faces of countless beings. Despite any paradoxes, contradictions, continuity changes, or retcons, the Time Trapper has access to all the memories of all its iterations and is the same being despite any changes in identity or appearance. The following is a list of notable people who have been and have yet to become the Time Trapper.

• Glorith Time Trapper: As an already adept time manipulator even before becoming the Time Trapper, she demonstrates better time manipulation skills than many of the other beings who have taken up the mantle of Time Trapper (though this should not be the case given Time Trapper has access to all his memories of all his versions or eventualities)
• Cosmic Boy (Rokk Krinn)
• An erased alternate reality Batgirl (potentially) - Zero Hour: Crisis in Time Vol1 #0 implies that some woman becomes Time Trapper as shown in the very last panel. This woman is probably the alternate timeline batgirl that was erased from reality.
• Superboy Prime Time Trapper: He should be equal to any other incarnation of the entity. He does not display any notable feats though. In fact he is quite an unimpressive Time Trapper. He does not seem to have, or at last he doesn’t use, his reality altering powers of his younger, angrier, and more impulsive self.
• Doomsday Time Trapper: He, like Superboy Prime Time Trapper, does not display any uniquely powerful feats of his own but should be equal to all other versions. He did gather Alpha and Omega energy throughout the entirety of Prime-Earth’s Timeline to give to King Omega Superman to aid in his fight against Darkseid.

NOTE: The universal form of time trapper is rated 1C (6D) for being able to manipulate the entirety of Earth-One/New-Earth/Prime-Earth’s timeline. Any line segment contains an uncountably infinite number of points and as stated an infinite number of timelines are made at every point in time. He can make universes from a single point in time. All of this shows that he has at the very least low-1C power. It is likely that Time Trapper is actually 1C due to the fact that all of the offshoot timelines will themself create infinite alternate timelines off into infinity. This would mean that there are infinite^Infinite (uncountably infinite timelines for EACH POINT in the universe’s timeline) making him 1C for controlling ALL timelines at every point throughout the entire timeline of the universe.
NOTE: Time Trapper is the embodiment of ultimate entropy and time as a final ending and is opposed by the Infinite Man the embodiment of time as an eternal constant and of cyclical creation. They are equal polar opposites of each other, though the Infinite Man did stalemate the Time trapper in his own realm at the end of time so he could be somewhat superior, though this may simply be due to his nature as the embodiment of time WITHOUT an end.

The Adjudicators and The Overseers - at least 1C (7D) likely low-1A: The Adjudicator is a member of a very powerful alien species that dwell in Limbo outside of the multiverse and serves the Overseers as a judge of worlds. He only appears in 3 issues but during this brief time he demonstrates some of if not the greatest feats of anyone in Pre-Crisis DC. He is capable of and was going to destroy the entire Pre-Crisis Multiverse throughout all of time. He could casually teleport to the transdimensional limbo outside of time and space and again to a space between dimensions (which was referring to Limbo). He can observe all the universes of the multiverse and can send conjured agents, the four horsemen of the apocalypse, down into these worlds. He was completely beyond the capacity of the Heroes to defeat by normal means and had to get the Adjudicator’s boss the Overseers to step in - Wonder Woman #291,292,293. It is revealed that his home dimension exists beyond the conventional worlds of the multiverse as such he side-stepped the effects of the Crisis on Infinite Earths in the same manner as the Time Trapper. The adjudicator returns in the Rebirth Era to judge worlds once again. He can peer across both the positive multiverse and the dark multiverse beyond to show different iterations of Batman and Black Canary including the Batman Who Laughs. The Adjudicator has seen incarnations of Batman and Black Canary throughout infinite realities and multiple multiversal cycles (Crisis Events): “I have watched Batman and Black Canaries don their mantles an infinite number of times, through the many cycles of the multiverse.” - Justice League of America Vol5 #25. The Adjudicator is “born of dimensions beyond the multiverse”, “I hold the fates of worlds in my hands.” He describes his existence as infinite. He reboots Earth-8 - Justice League of America Vol5 #26.

Pre-Crisis Mr Mxyzptlk and Bat-Mite - varies up to 1C (7D): At their greatest capacity, they are far stronger than the combine might of all the Pre-Crisis Superhero’s. Mr Mxyzptlk is among the most powerful Pre-Crisis villains and beings in general. During the events of World’s Funnest Mr Mxyzptlk and Bat-Mite destroy all parallel universes, all alternate realities, all alternate universes, all divergent futures, and all alternate timelines in the past present and future. Mr Mxyzptlk destroys all numbered dimensions (including the Fifth Dimension) including those that are not whole numbers (which includes Bat-Mites home dimension which is stated to be a fractional dimension) - Worlds Funnest. Even in Pre-Crisis it is shown that there is an Earth-PI and Earth-i among many other strange universes such as an Earth- and an Earth- and Earth- - Ambush Bug Vol1 #3. This shows that when Mr Mxyzptlk destroyed all dimensions he destroyed a number of universes equivalent to the set of all real number (the entire Pre-Crisis Multiverse). It is important to note that in Pre-Crisis continuity dimensions are just weird universes, operating under often mystical or unnatural laws of physics, that are different than universes that contain an Earth. The Fifth Dimension is just a magical universe centered around the planet Zrfff in the same way Earth-One is a universe centered around Earth. There are an infinite number of Fifth Dimensions as stated by Mr Mxyzptlk himself, one for each universe of the multiverse - Superman Family Vol1 #208.
NOTE: Refer back to my first post on the previous page (Page 161 of this discussion thread) to see more on the nature of the universe and the multiverse.
NOTE: Even if World’s Funnest was applied to Post Crisis, it would not make any sense as Mr Mxyzptlk and Bat-Mite destroy and later reset the Fifth Dimension during their rampage. While they are two of the most powerful Imps in post Crisis Continuity, there are plenty of other 5D beings, that individually or together with others, that would prevent them from destroying their home dimension. As powerful as they are, they would be easily over powered by a mob of imps or some thunderbolts. The two Imps are simply not nearly powerful enough to do such a thing in Post Crisis Continuity nor would such a thing make sense. As such it makes perfect sense for this to have occurred in a Hypertime version of the Pre-Crisis Multiverse. Much like how Hypertime Earth-898 (the JLA Nail Universe) is the primary reality of an entire Pre-Crisis Multiverse, one that even includes its own Mr Mxyzptlk and experiences its own unique version of Crisis on Infinite Earths.
NOTE: In Pre-Crisis, the position and importance of the Fifth Dimension was not established as such if they decided to destroy it, this would not be beyond the realm of plausibility or beyond their power level. We are not really introduced to other residents of the Fifth Dimension in Pre-Crisis so is not clear if they are as powerful as the two most famous imps. Throughout Pre-Crisis Mr Mxyzptlk is portrayed as powerful, but not transcendent to all reality. In most depictions he is simply a powerful magic reality bender from an alternate dimension. There is not even just one Mr Mxyzptlk like in Post Crisis, each universe in the multiverse has its own version and corresponding Fifth Dimension. Pre-Crisis Mr Mxyzptlks are powerful but they can be killed such as the version killed in the legendary Superman story: Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow when Mr Mxyzptlk is killed by teleporting back to the Fifth Dimension at the exact moment that Superman intended on sending him to the phantom zone - Action Comics #583. While this was intended to have been the last Earth-One Superman story ever written, it was changed to have occurred on Earth-423.
Personal Confusion (maybe someone else remembers this??): In Worlds Funnest, Mr Mxyzptlk tells Bat-Mite that he destroyed all numbered dimensions including the one belonging to Bat-Mite which is stated to be fractional. At some point in DC history, some comic mentioned Bat-Mite coming from a different dimension than Mr Mxyzptlk. It was an odd dimension something like the 4.9th dimension or something like that. Unfortunately, I cannot remember in what source the 4.9th or some other strange number of dimension was mentioned in relation to Bat-Mite. It may have been stated by Bat-Mite, Mr Mxyzptlk, or maybe someone else entirely. I recall it being 4.9 or even the 4 and 10/11ths dimension (I remember it being a very weird dimension that was not the Fifth but close to five) and I am almost certain that it was stated in a Post Crisis comic. Unfortunately, I have read so many thousands of comics that I am unlikely to re-read that particular comic again. Or it was a personal Mandela Effect type situation of conflating one unrelated thing with another. I am bringing this up because as stated, Mr Mxyzptlk said he destroyed Bat-Mite’s home dimension which is explicitly stated to be fractional in nature (and not the Fifth Dimension). By finding this other source, it would solve some mysteries about Pre-Crisis depictions of Fifth Dimensional beings and differentiating between continuity.

 

[Bimgus8010]

Superman has traded blows and nearly killed time trapper's on 2 separate occasions

The superboy prime one



And the doomsday one


You can't say these are outlierS with plural

 

[KirbyFan03]

Superman has traded blows and nearly killed time trapper's on 2 separate occasions

The superboy prime one



And the doomsday one


You can't say these are outlierS with plural

Doomsday Time Trappers more recent too

Though tbf Rebirth superman is the strongest

 

[Frankky123]

Doomsday Time Trappers more recent too

Though tbf Rebirth superman is the strongest

Speaking of Superman, why doesn’t New 52 Superman have the “God of Strength” key? He has impressive feats in last issue of JL, like adapting to the environment of the Sphere of the Gods and ascending. He’s also performed a similar feat to Gabriel in Lucifer 2016, flying between Earth and the Sphere of the Gods without boom tube device(that feat give gabriel immeasurable speed).

 

[KirbyFan03]

Speaking of Superman, why doesn’t New 52 Superman have the “God of Strength” key? He has impressive feats in last issue of JL, like adapting to the environment of the Sphere of the Gods and ascending. He’s also performed a similar feat to Gabriel in Lucifer 2016, flying between Earth and the Sphere of the Gods without boom tube device(that feat give gabriel immeasurable speed).

I'm 100% certain the Apokolips during Darkseid War was the in-multiverse god world

 

[Frankky123]

I'm 100% certain the Apokolips during Darkseid War was the in-multiverse god world

I don't know what multiverse God world is. but it should be similar to what was explained in Batman & Robin (2011), where Batman says that Apokolips is in somewhere else not like a parallel world(multiverse) that's why he need boom tube to get there.

 

[KirbyFan03]

I don't know what multiverse God world is. but it should be similar to what was explained in Batman & Robin (2011), where Batman says that Apokolips is in somewhere else not like a parallel world(multiverse) that's why he need boom tube to get there.

The emanations not the true god world

 

[Antvasima]

We will not scale an entire massive cosmology from a crossover, especially not one between He-Man and Injustice, period. We have strong rules against that for very good reasons as there are too many inconsistencies in the power levels and cosmologies for different verses to properly synchronise them with each other.

I would greatly appreciate if you drop all such sources and strictly focus on reliable completely single continuity events, thank you.

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizio33 @Firestorm808 @Eficiente

Is there anything we can reliably use from the new information here, and if so, in what ways should we apply it?

 

[Frankky123]

We will not scale an entire massive cosmology from a crossover, especially not one between He-Man and Injustice, period. We have strong rules against that for very good reasons as there are too many inconsistencies in the power levels and cosmologies for different verses to properly synchronise them with each other.

I would greatly appreciate if you drop all such sources and strictly focus on reliable completely single continuity events, thank you.

Ant ignores me
By the way what if some character mention crossover in Canon comic run or there is Canon comic event in crossover comics

 

[Hecky2222]

@Antvasima have you ever read Watchmen? If so what do you think about it

 

[Antvasima]

Brilliant in plot structure and rather insightful in terms of social issues, but far too bleak, hopeless, barren, and anti-spiritual for my taste.

 

[Frankky123]

The emanations not the true god world

Apokolips is consistently stated as another world & only accessible via boom tube. Batman & Robin 2011 explained, apokolips is somewhere else off the multiverse not in same dimension like a parallel world, also in darkseid war it explain the history of entity in both world(apokolips & new Genesis) which makes it unlikely to be just an “emanation.”

 

[KirbyFan03]

Apokolips is consistently stated as another world & only accessible via boom tube. Batman & Robin 2011 explained, apokolips is somewhere else off the multiverse not in same dimension like a parallel world, also in darkseid war it explain the history of entity in both world(apokolips & new Genesis) which makes it unlikely to be just an “emanation.”

The whole New 52 cosmology was an alternate timeline and besides, even emanation worlds are stated to be in an untouchable and unreachable place in the N52