CC Goku vs Dante

[Shar122]

Oh? So does DBH have an accepted hierarchy of abstractions and metaphysics, especially for CM or is that just layers you are mistaking as "more abstract"? If what you are saying is true, then yeah this match is a stomp.

Conceptual time IN DBH is more fundamentally deeper than concepts like evil in the verse.

I mean can Goku come back from insta kill? i doubt he reviving after soul destruction. Would he even realise he is in trouble before he dies?

Time Power has High Godly Resurrection, it can restore entire timelines/space-times from it's erasure.

Dante is leading with physical fight, Goku might not take him seriously since he is weaker. Dante has combat skill feats to run circles around Goku for tough fight.

That Passive EE is gonna make this either a stomp or is still useless due to not being able to affect souls superior to CM1, and Dante has HGR neg resistance in layers, so this is a flux.

UT CC Goku leads with omnidirectional blast nuke which cover a 4D, likely 6D structure in this key, on top of his already passive erasure.

A bit exaggerated.


Adapt, AD and RE goes brrr. Not that different from Demon World shenanigans.


6-D is range as Concept Manip isn't tied to dimensions.


History EE is just EE in all points in time which is countered by Acausality and resists Space-Time manip and HGR is based on History so ehh.

Time power can affect Demons which They have Acausality type 1 and Higher degree of 4.
Check here:

Demon Physiology (Dragon Ball)

Demons (鬼おに, Oni?) are "evil" creatures who come from Demon Realm (魔ま界かい, Makai?).[See Notes 1] While they appear very little in mainstream Dragon Ball Z and Super with the exception of Dabura, they are the major threat in Dragon Ball Heroes multiverse,[See Notes 2][See Notes 3] constantly...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Plus from what I've checked, I don't see in the demon physiology in DMC that High Godly Regen covers history, but even then, Goku have High Godly Regen neg that already covers it, time power also have resistance neg as well.

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

The only "smurf hax" (if even that given it could be range now a days) is hax tied to dimensions: time, space, pocket reality and all that stuff. The rest are fair game for everyone, hence why even a random 10C with more layers than a 1B can hax them to death.


Dante is always holding back in canon, except when he is either bloodlusted/Angry (Vol1, VoV, Mundus) or going all out (Mundus, Chen, Vergil) so in Dante's case its just a matter of not holding back. DT state and higher all his passives are just always there since he can't hold back that.

Induces fear, madness, despair and crushes the soul to the point they go insane and mutilate/kill themselves if they don't outright die.

How many layers of these passives? I’m wel aware the soul crush is 40 layers but what about the rest? I find it really hard to believe these passives would reach Goku, let alone affect him. Goku has several sources of energies, all of which bestows the user aura and EE. Power of destruction, Universal Tree and Time Power itself. We’ve seen, even from canon iterations that something like P.O.D can erase incoming attacks from existence. This is because it acts as a barrier defending Goku, as do the other two energy systems, Time Power and Universe Tree. Ki can interact with non physical beings and attacks so yeah. It would be very difficult to pull that off let alone harm Goku if he’s getting passively power nullified due to Goku hacks. The passive power nullification actually has multiple aspects to it, even causing someone who’s inflicted by it to be reverted into their weakest key or a point in time they haven’t had the occasion of undergoing training. Then there’s also his other hacks such as passive causality manipulation which by technicality grants Goku immortality as he’s able to passively nullify time that influences his body which effectively erases effects that affected them prior. It also erases the actions that lead to those effects happening which conveniently prevents Dante’s passives. Then there’s also RE which has a multitude of instances and if I’m not wrong Goku’s RE allows him to evolve to almost everything in the DBH multiverse. Out of curiosity does Dante have resistance to resistance negation?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

How many layers of these passives? I’m wel aware the soul crush is 40 layers but what about the rest?

All that has to do with demonic power... which is everything

I find it really hard to believe these passives would reach Goku, let alone affect him. Goku has several sources of energies, all of which bestows the user aura and EE. Power of destruction, Universal Tree and Time Power itself. We’ve seen, even from canon iterations that something like P.O.D can erase incoming attacks from existence. This is because it acts as a barrier defending Goku, as do the other two energy systems, Time Power and Universe Tree. Ki can interact with non physical beings and attacks so yeah. It would be very difficult to pull that off let alone harm Goku if he’s getting passively power nullified due to Goku hacks.

That's not stopping passives. At best that would erase Dante's body (not his soul) but it isn't stopping the passives from happening.

The passive power nullification actually has multiple aspects to it, even causing someone who’s inflicted by it to be reverted into their weakest key or a point in time they haven’t had the occasion of undergoing training. Then there’s also his other hacks such as passive causality manipulation which by technicality grants Goku immortality as he’s able to passively nullify time that influences his body which effectively erases effects that affected them prior. It also erases the actions that lead to those effects happening which conveniently prevents Dante’s passives. Then there’s also RE which has a multitude of instances and if I’m not wrong Goku’s RE allows him to evolve to almost everything in the DBH multiverse. Out of curiosity does Dante have resistance to resistance negation?

Dante has resistance to power null.

Dante also has RE, one that works immediately and can adapt to literally anything in his own verse too including making his hax stronger to kill. I think they mentioned it already.

Not yet, he should have it after the next thread given one demon can negate/bypass his own resistances with his own blood despite being his own blood and been drenched in it prior to it. It's also accepted already in this profile

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Plus from what I've checked, I don't see in the demon physiology in DMC that High Godly Regen covers history, but even then, Goku have High Godly Regen neg that already covers it, time power also have resistance neg as well.

Its weird because they used to have resistance to regen negg and since it got upgraded to High Godly it would be resistance to High G regen negg, probably forgot about it during the demon physiology rework. But yeah, they should have it. It's even stated somewhere that Dante and Vergil wouldn't be able to kill each other at the top of the Qliphoth if Nero didn't intervene and they would have keep fighting.

Also, Dante should have High G negg since he kills demon kings, Sparda and was gonna kill Urizen too.

 

[Robo432343]

dmc layer stomp

 

[Tanin_iver]

Also, Dante should have High G negg since he kills demon kings, Sparda and was gonna kill Urizen too.

Both DMC and DBH have different HGR and HGR neg versions, neither are exactly equivalent to each other.
DMC affect more abstract Souls while DBH is history based.

Just pointing this out.

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

Its weird because they used to have resistance to regen negg and since it got upgraded to High Godly it would be resistance to High G regen negg, probably forgot about it during the demon physiology rework. But yeah, they should have it. It's even stated somewhere that Dante and Vergil wouldn't be able to kill each other at the top of the Qliphoth if Nero didn't intervene and they would have keep fighting.

Also, Dante should have High G negg since he kills demon kings, Sparda and was gonna kill Urizen too.

1- Dante doesn't resist 6D power null, especially that's coming from a 'super' conceptual source such as TP, and TP power null literally negates resistances.
2- Dante's high godly regen is...only conceptual, Goku EE and high goldy regen/neg is conceptual [which can erase evil, Time Scrolls, TP itself.] Erases your past, present, and future, erases laws luck probability fate and causality, erases your information, data and text, and non existent erasure. So no, Dante's regen can't deal with this at all.
3- Goku's RE is superior since he instantly Adapated to all of UT passives + Fu's Dark Factor aura, resisted it, gained control of it, power nulled it and was able to use it on his own. Goku can literally RE to Dante's demonic energy itself, gain the ability to power null/purify it and even control/absorb it.

If Dante doesn’t have resistance to resistance negation I’m pretty sure this is a stomp. If it’s not a stomp it’s just Goku winning via incapitation. Incapitation of constantly killing Dante via Aura and his other passives. Theres Freeze which is capable of time stopping characters with immeasurable speed that operates on two temporal dimensions as well as the DBH multiverse, heavily upscaling from one temporal dimension. This would mean Dante has no way of resisting this unless I’m missing something. He’d be stopped in time forever and would be getting passively nullified. Then there’s also time travelling which Goku can do with I.T or raw speed. I’m pretty sure once Goku kicks into high gears or uses I.T with the intent of time travelling, Goku would be travelling at infinite levels of speed making it impossible for Dante to tag him.

Despite the massive layer difference Goku has his ways around it. Could I also be given the thread for where these layers were accepte?

 

[Huesito88]

Theres Freeze which is capable of time stopping characters with immeasurable speed that operates on two temporal dimensions as well as the DBH multiverse, heavily upscaling from one temporal dimension.

I've asked a question regarding this before and well apparently time stopping more Immeasurable speed of higher Temporal dimensions, doesn't make time stopping any stronger and it only gives additional dimensional range (Granted it was just one person, and there isn't any standards placed for it, so it isn't some clear rule)

Resistance Negation is probably far game though

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

Dante has 40 layers of haxes wtf? I ain't familiar with his game

 

[Robo432343]

1- Dante doesn't resist 6D power null, especially that's coming from a 'super' conceptual source such as TP, and TP power null literally negates resistances.

Metaphysical aspects (mind, soul, info, concept, etc) were clarified that they cant be higher dimensional potency unless it was 1-A.
We don't really do that 6D power null 6D concept hax thing anymore

The most common hax are the ones that ignore durability, and their scale/potency are unrelated to their users' AP & Tier, however, they can be measured with their effectiveness against their targets' Durability. This is because, depending on the hax, the statistics bypassed may actually counter it if they have a higher enough scale. This, however, is not the case with certain hax, examples include Reality Warping, Probability Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation, and other abilities that simply & logically cannot be countered by high statistics.

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

Yeah, ik, but DMC Souls AE1 are above that. Need to erase that or interact with that or else nothing happens, they can function even when CM1 is nuked.

Need to affect the Soul.

I dont get this part, are you saying souls in dmc are superior to cm1 so they are immune to info2?

 

[Tanin_iver]

I dont get this part, are you saying souls in dmc are superior to cm1 so they are immune to info2?

Kinda, their AE1 is such that even after their CM1 is nuked, they are just fine and can function without it.
That's what I meant by need to even interact with their weird AE to affect them.
Also, I am checking the DB stuff now so might comment later and share my thoughts.

 

[Thermor]

Kinda, their AE1 is such that even after their CM1 is nuked, they are just fine and can function without it.
That's what I meant by need to even interact with their weird AE to affect them.
Also, I am checking the DB stuff now so might comment later and share my thoughts.

Wouldn't that downgrade cm1 in dmc? If souls are considered superior so cm1 only governs the physical body.

 

[Shar122]

Both DMC and DBH have different HGR and HGR neg versions, neither are exactly equivalent to each other.
DMC affect more abstract Souls while DBH is history based.

Just pointing this out.

yeah, no.
DBH time power & Universe tree's HGR neg covers history, space-time, concept type 1 and information type 2.

 

[Robo432343]

im pretty sure time power has not been shown to info hax a type 1 concept

 

[Vietthai96]

I just wake up and hell, what the hell?

1. When did simply resisting time or space-time hax allows you to resist History Erasure?

2. When did DMC Soul > Concept?. It is just that Soul can exist even if one name is erased. By this logic, you are > space-time if you can exist even when space-time was erased

 

[Vietthai96]

we were talking about this in the 5d thread

I missed most of the comment so idk what you guys was talking about, busy with stuff

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

dmc layer stomp

not really, Dante winning cuz of passives isn't valid cuz immeasurable speed would let Goku dodge that normally

1- Dante doesn't resist 6D power null, especially that's coming from a 'super' conceptual source such as TP, and TP power null literally negates resistances.

smurf hax is dead unless it involves time/space or something like that and even then it could be just range

2- Dante's high godly regen is...only conceptual, Goku EE and high goldy regen/neg is conceptual [which can erase evil, Time Scrolls, TP itself.] Erases your past, present, and future, erases laws luck probability fate and causality, erases your information, data and text, and non existent erasure. So no, Dante's regen can't deal with this at all.

Yeah sure, I was shown a thread about it some days ago so I won't contest this.

Still, Dante has more layers for concept stuff than DB so Goku is not erasing his soul and that means Goku is still getting passive'd

3- Goku's RE is superior since he instantly Adapated to all of UT passives + Fu's Dark Factor aura, resisted it, gained control of it, power nulled it and was able to use it on his own. Goku can literally RE to Dante's demonic energy itself, gain the ability to power null/purify it and even control/absorb it.

A powerless version of Dante (Tony) adapted to the demon world in mere seconds, it let him adapt to someone getting stupid big amps in power with no problem, makes him immune to hax he experienced once, etc.

The moment Goku tries touching Dante's demonic power he gets corrupted, killed, etc. Not to mention Dante will RE to it and kill Goku.

If Dante doesn’t have resistance to resistance negation I’m pretty sure this is a stomp. If it’s not a stomp it’s just Goku winning via incapitation. Incapitation of constantly killing Dante via Aura and his other passives. Theres Freeze which is capable of time stopping characters with immeasurable speed that operates on two temporal dimensions as well as the DBH multiverse, heavily upscaling from one temporal dimension. This would mean Dante has no way of resisting this unless I’m missing something. He’d be stopped in time forever and would be getting passively nullified. Then there’s also time travelling which Goku can do with I.T or raw speed. I’m pretty sure once Goku kicks into high gears or uses I.T with the intent of time travelling, Goku would be travelling at infinite levels of speed making it impossible for Dante to tag him.

DMC characters can still act and exist as Souls. Nero is proof of a Quarter Demon doing it, should be easier for Dante who is half demon so the EE isn't exactly a problem.

This is obviously ignoring how Goku is getting passive'd to death and can't do the same as Dante.

Despite the massive layer difference Goku has his ways around it. Could I also be given the thread for where these layers were accepte?

He kinda doesn't.

Here brother.

 

[Killerdrone123]

1)Time power is also a concept superior to other concept in the verse you can check time power page if you want so UT Goku won't have any problems with interacting with Dante's soul

2)It doesn't matter if Dante has layers of Conceptual manipulation resistance if he doesn't resist resistance negation he is getting erased not to mention he doesn't really resist info ee not to mention the ee is passive

3)Any action done by dante to Goku is getting reversed by history ee as it would make sure to erase dante in all points of time in such a way that he never existed undoing his every action

 

[SuperSonicTL]

2. When did DMC Soul > Concept?. It is just that Soul can exist even if one name is erased. By this logic, you are > space-time if you can exist even when space-time was erased

Souls can exist without names even when the raws states that it gives them forms and everything. That sounds like a far cry to me from some mere independence.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

1)Time power is also a concept superior to other concept in the verse you can check time power page if you want so UT Goku won't have any problems with interacting with Dante's soul

2)It doesn't matter if Dante has layers of Conceptual manipulation resistance if he doesn't resist resistance negation he is getting erased not to mention he doesn't really resist info ee not to mention the ee is passive

3)Any action done by dante to Goku is getting reversed by history ee as it would make sure to erase dante in all points of time in such a way that he never existed undoing his every action

It also kinda doesn't help that Dante have no resistance to info stuff. I believe it is too early to have such a match.

But I have an issue, what's the exact counter to currently established 40+ passive layers of madness? I don't think anyone in DB can counter that unless we are going with passive dodging or something.

Personally, I think it would go incon due to that. Essentially, both can oneshot each other according to currently established metas.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Matches like this tend to end up being an incon or a stomp.

 

[Killerdrone123]

It also kinda doesn't help that Dante have no resistance to info stuff. I believe it is too early to have such a match.

But I have an issue, what's the exact counter to currently established 40+ passive layers of madness? I don't think anyone in DB can counter that unless we are going with passive dodging or something.

Like i said UT Goku in this case have passive ee aura which constantly suurounds him and that would erase dante on history level undoing any effect he had on Goku as it would erase dante in every point in time making it like he never existed reversing his action

You can also make an argument of how goku's passive would be faster given it has immeasurable speed

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Like i said UT Goku in this case have passive ee aura which constantly suurounds him and that would erase dante on history level undoing any effect he had on Goku as it would erase dante in every point in time making it like he never existed reversing his action

You can also make an argument of how goku's passive would be faster given it has immeasurable speed

Huh... Sounds like Void Mundus would've been a better contender for the matchup but oh well, fair enough.

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

So I suppose the verdict is Goku passively erasing dante?

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

If yes, I'll change Goku's key to ultragod ui since he lack passives there

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

If yes, I'll change Goku's key to ultragod ui since he lack passives there

I think people would rather you change it to Mundus for fairer opportunity but this match just feels sluggish and dragged out. I’m guessing Mundus and CC Goku would just incon unless Arale decides to throw her narrative BS at him and take him outside the story or erase them frkm the story. Or you can just close this since your reason for this thread was to see a peak Goku Vs a peak Dante and the results came through.

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

I think people would rather you change it to Mundus for fairer opportunity but this match just feels sluggish and dragged out. I’m guessing Mundus and CC Goku would just incon unless Arale decides to throw her narrative BS at him and take him outside the story or erase them frkm the story. Or you can just close this since your reason for this thread was to see a peak Goku Vs a peak Dante and the results came through.

I'll be fine with closing the thread since I know what's Dante main gimmick (layers). But if the others want to continue, I'll just change Goku's key to ultragod ui as he has no passives which allows a more fair fight

 

[Vietthai96]

Other Goku do not have passives while peak Dante have passives, i don't think it also fair

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

Other Goku do not have passives while peak Dante have passives, i don't think it also fair

I'm confused, I thought Goku being immeasurable allows him to dodge Dante's passives

 

[Shar122]

Yeah this ain't fair, Peak Dante have passives.

I'm confused, I thought Goku being immeasurable allows him to dodge Dante's passives

Speed is equalized

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I'm confused, I thought Goku being immeasurable allows him to dodge Dante's passives

Speed is equalized so I don't know if that would help?

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

I know from other speed equalized matches, the person with immeas speed can dodge the guy who has passives with speed lower than immeas

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

not really, Dante winning cuz of passives isn't valid cuz immeasurable speed would let Goku dodge that normally

Ah here it is

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

I know from other speed equalized matches, the person with immeas speed can dodge the guy who has passives with speed lower than immeas

Where was this said? I’m also aware that immeasurable speed has some weird changes, even in reference to time travel too. As in, if Goku were to time travel against a finite or finitely inferior, despite speed being equalised he would be travelling at infinite speeds, being able to freely travel to the future, present and past IIRC.

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

Where was this said? I’m also aware that immeasurable speed has some weird changes, even in reference to time travel too. As in, if Goku were to time travel against a finite or finitely inferior, despite speed being equalised he would be travelling at infinite speeds, being able to freely travel to the future, present and past IIRC.

Uh ask tony

Ah here it is

 

[Shar122]

Ah here it is

The match is invalid because immeasurable characters usually/normally dodges and evades non-immeasurable speed passives.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

@Tuxidoe_Redo Don't close or change this matchup just yet btw. Others have some arguments to make still.

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

@Tuxidoe_Redo Don't close or change this matchup just yet btw. Others have some arguments to make still.

So still Goku's SSB UT key? Alright

 

[Xdsagecat]

Peak Goku is UT Goku, not UI.

To be clear UT is Universe tree?