Killerdrone123
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I was just explaining DD's function if kratos can resist getting his stamina drained then that is fair.
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Kratos vs CC Goku
- Thread starter Thermor
- Start date
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It was the default assumption. But that is no longer the case. The only "smurf" abilities that innately exist now are showcased range and space-time/dimensional manipulation (since that is directly affected by dimensionality). Anything else requires a specific showcase of potency varying with "concentration" or something similar beyond just "7-D > 6-D".
DontTalkDT making a comment where even he isn't sure isn't a standard or rule of the wiki. I do agree with him that all smurf hax hasn't been nuked hence the exception I pointed out above regarding range and space-time abilities.
Even assuming this was the case, Kratos has conceptual power nullification and that component isn't measured physically at all.
Alright. So this comes down to being able to land an attack first.
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If this is the case fair enough. No contentions there.
If it’s a who strikes first and strikes hard type of battle then it’d be nice to note out some of Goku’s plausible options. So I think it’s abundantly obvious that Goku would one shot with essentially anything seeing how there’s a beyond measurable AP gap between himself and Kratos, correct? When this scenario comes into play, Kratos would theoretically resurrect himself and gain immortality type 4 and 8 (?) if Goku notices this it’s likely Goku would resort to summoning characters such as Aeos and Arale which is what someone mentioned prior to me. If it’s Arale, I think it’s pretty clear she’d be very detrimental and a determine factor in this case due to plot shenanigans. Upon summoning Arale Goku could in theory just bombard Kratos with summons since he can summon a vast set of characters if I’m not incorrect. Outside of Arale and Aeos he can summon Super Shenron (?) there’s also the Keysword which can be bestowed to him through Aeos.
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Kratos can just insta adapt to Status effect.
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Kratos has summoning negation in this key so that would be an issue. And likewise, any attack Kratos has would kill Goku due to the higher layers of Soul Magic.
Gods also have the ability to manipulate reality to directly affect a target through a projected image so Kratos doesn't need contact for his death hax.
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Alright I think this is a win for Kratos then. It’s a bit of a mismatch but I don’t think it’s a stomp. You should probably close this
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In a speed equalized setting, Immeasurable speed still let's the user freely travel between time as noted in the battle page:
So the user is right that Goku would generally always gets the first hit, as he can travel freely through time if desired.
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I see. How does this interact with acausal and time travelling characters that aren't Immeasurable?
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The VS SBA assumes the "characters" exist in the battle ground for some arbitrary amoint of time in the past. So Time Travel works as an active ability that can be triggered after the match begins.
Acasual characters it depends on the type. It could negate an Immeasurable win condition (for example only the current version exists so there's no past or future), or work as a counter to it in certain cases, or be useless against the Immeasurable character time traveling.
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I see. Kratos has Type 1 and 4 Acausality. And can travel through time as well, which is why I asked. If that isn't enough then yeah, this is a stomp.
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Type 1 means that Goku killing past Kratos isn't a win condition as the current is alive and immune to a paradox. Type 4 doesn't do much afaik.
Kratos time traveling is useless in this context since Goku just has an objectively superior version of it since he has freedom of movement.
Goku killing Kratos in the future though, would be a valid win condition even if that's like, a weird thing to wrap your head around. Unless he also has future paradox immunity as well.
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Thanks for the clarification. Didn't think Immeasurable speed would be that weird.
Seems to be a stomp then.
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Why is it a stomp if Goku time travels to the future? Its not like Goku's first choice either (I dont think Goku has even thought of that)
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IIRC this counterpart of Goku in terms of personality isn’t an exact copy of Canon Goku. I was told this specific variant tends to gauge his opponents level with some melee and Ki oriented attacks but if they’re ineffective he shifts into using the big guns. That being hax and more severe abilities. If I’m also not wrong I’m pretty sure Dragon Ball Heroes is largely built on time patrol and time travelling as is Xenoverse 2. I really don’t think it’s OOC (out of character) for this Goku.
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Yeah I'm saying it's not something Goku would do on the get go always. Technically it isnt a stomp if theres a chance of Goku not using time travel as first move
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Probably wouldn’t use it as a first move if he isn’t given prior knowledge or anything of that sort but my guess is that it’d be a 3rd move since summoning is his second move. I feel as though there’s way too many variables to go about this match up. As another person stated it’s a battle of if Kratos can tag Goku before he uses his larger and more devastating arsenal which I feel as though should ensure him the win. I feel like a really underrated underlying ability of CC Goku’s is his instant transmission which he has been shown to rely on or simply use a lot in character. He could very much teleport to a distance that’s considered unreachable to Kratos then come back with his summons and potentially the Keysword or he could time travel from there. I think that’s a pretty nasty combination.
I don’t think teleporting to a higher D construct or another world for instance would be entirely OOC either given how CC Goku has experienced Dragon Ball Super Broly and some of Super. We’ve seen Goku teleport himself and Vegeta to wherever Piccolo was for that little bit of protection, stalling and layered safety to learn and use fusion dance.
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Goku fra
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I thought the stamina reduction was passive?
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- Thread starter
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Goku has no passives in this key.
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The stamina reduction is passive. Someone can feel free to correct me but the passive stamina reduction is in conjunction to being hit by CC Goku in this context. Attacks such as, punching, ordinary Ki blasts and so on cause damage and directly target their foes stamina. The actual stamina reduction ability Robo is talking about is likely dimensional domain. That’s one way of reducing person B’s statistical value, IIRC most DBH characters in general have several methods of doing so. They aren’t restricted to one way. As for future travel I have doubts it’s a starting move but in my comment earlier to this I actually explained a scenario where Goku could use it but I’m not sure if it was conveniently left out or what. Goku actually does have an ability which I mentioned which he tends to use IC, across all continuities (obviously continuities pertaining and in correlation to CC Goku). That ability being instant transmission which he can essentially use a multitude of times to create distance between himself and Kratos but if deemed necessary can traverse as far as infinite 6D constructs giving Goku the time to fish for solutions on how to beat Kratos. I also do feel as though MUI raises the possibility of this happening due to its very function on you know, fending off from danger and retaliating accordingly so it’s definitely not far fetched to say. I’m pretty sure you could even argue instant transmission can be in conjunction to being a first move along with Goku resulting in physical methods for further insight on Kratos physical prowess.
Edit: I completely forgot about this scenario but there was an actual instance in the DBH franchise where Goku used his immeasurable speed to gain an advantage over Aeos by time travelling to hard counter her precognition. So it’s definitely not within the realms of uncertainty for Goku to use.
Edit: I completely forgot about this scenario but there was an actual instance in the DBH franchise where Goku used his immeasurable speed to gain an advantage over Aeos by time travelling to hard counter her precognition. So it’s definitely not within the realms of uncertainty for Goku to use.
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He has, UGM UI literally incorporates the abilities and resistances from Universe mission UI key of his. Its just incorporating stuff from earlier keys.
- Enhanced Stamina Reduction (Has Dimensional Domain in his Perfected Ultra Instinct form,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/S..._Arcade_Universe_Mission_1_Game_Abilities-240"><span>[</span>236<span>]</span></a> which passively reduces his opponents' stamina to bare minimum, close to zero)
Eh, he can use instant transmission to time travel into the future or different timelines actually (and in the games, they don't need a lichpin to track and travel to, they can just do that)
Dimensional Travel & Time Travel (Instant Transmission sends user into another dimension of inconsistent appearance. This dimension is a subspace that transcends time, a part of the overarching Subspace that has no concept of space and time, allowing Goku to travel to new locations instantaneously. He can also fight whilst doing so, attacking others from this Dimension whilst they themselves cannot attack him. Unlike in Canon or Toei continuity, Game version of Instant Transmission<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/S...ote-TV_Anime_Guide:_DBZ_Son_Goku_Densetsu-101"><span>[</span>99<span>]</span></a> allows Goku to transcend space and time itself, capable of travelling not only between dimensions but also<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/S...note-SDBH_UVM_Promotional_Anime_Episode_6-102"><span>[</span>100<span>]</span></a> to different<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/S...note-SDBH_UVM_Promotional_Anime_Episode_6-102"><span>[</span>100<span>]</span></a> points<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/S...#cite_note-SDBH_Arcade_Universe_Mission_5-103"><span>[</span>101<span>]</span></a> in time.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/S...ote-SDBH_Universe_Mission_Manga_Chapter_1-104"><span>[</span>102<span>]</span></a> flew from the Prison Planet, which only exists in the future, back to the present.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/S...ote-SDBH_Universe_Mission_Manga_Chapter_1-104"><span>[</span>102<span>]</span></a><a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/S...note-SDBH_UVM_Promotional_Anime_Guidebook-105"><span>[</span>103<span>]</span></a><a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/S...note-SDBH_UVM_Promotional_Anime_Episode_6-102"><span>[</span>100<span>]</span></a><a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/S...note-SDBH_UVM_Promotional_Anime_Episode_8-106"><span>[</span>104<span>]</span></a>)
This is UGM Goku as well which he literally spams his Instant transmission ability most of the time, like he did against Aeos and literally outspeed her future sight in this key specifically which is combination of IT and speed. So he would use IT spam here and nuke Kratos.
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Pepsimanslover
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Why is Kratos's time traveling useless? He can move through time entirely on a whim as well? It's just not through speed.
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He's going to paradox an infinitely weaker opponent immediately off the bat? No probing blows like claimed before?
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Because he can only go in one direction to specific points compared to someone who can fluidly move through time in either direction with their movement.
Additionally other than the space-time tears I'm not seeing time travel on his profile. Where's it at?
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Power of Fates, Magic page or just check Sisters of Fate
Pepsimanslover
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It's the Power of the Fates.
And Kratos can go anywhere in time through out a Hypertimeline scale, and the Power of the Fates in general commands all of time without expectation.
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Kratos has travelled to both past and future, he braught Titans from past to future at end of GoW2 and GoW3, birthing the famous GoW3 Kratos one liners
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I added them.
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That's why it wasn't on the profile.
Looking at it, it's still juat going to a select location. It's Teleportation vs Infinite speed. Kratos can go to specific points but Goku has free range to go anywhere.
Goku scales to infinite number of hypertimelines and is a dimensional level stronger. This comparison just firmly puts Kratos under Goku's range.
Pepsimanslover
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It's literally there?
And no. Kratos is stated to have command over time without expectations, and the Fates undoubtedly clarify their power includes governing the past, present and future. Kratos himself later in life stated this regarding the Fates.
He can teleport anywhere in time if he wishes, not to just specific points.
Does his time travel include that or no? As I wasn't speaking on AP.
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FTFY
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I didn't use the right words there. I meant there was no explicit "Time Manipulation" ability, but a sub-feature of a greater power set. Which is why I couldn't find it when searching for time manipulation as a power.
Yes. That's how the power vs speed works. Kratos has to actively use the power and picks a place to go. Goku can, through movement, travel to any point of his choosing.
Kratos always exists at a designated point in time. Goku's point in time is fluid due to his movement mechanics. Time travel just is not s counter to his immeasurable speed as it's an inferior active ability to Goku's passive movement.
Yes, as Goku move through his hyper-timelines in totality. Kratos is working on a limited 5D cosmology vs Goku's infinite 6D cosmology. His range and potency with all temporal powers is significantly worse because of that.
Pepsimanslover
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Ah I see.
So does Goku under speed equal, as his time travel is no longer considered via speed.
It's no longer movement considered tho?
I think you need better wording as when did a GoW downgrade happen to make God of War limited 5D?
Kratos can also move through multiple Hypertimelines as well, although their Low-1C to compared to 1-C range. Anyway given smurf applies to space-time hax then this is a stomp.
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When did GoW get upgraded to a Infinite amount of 5D universes? It's still only like one to two universal Low 1-C spaces isn't it?
It's movement still, but treated as a passive effect due. In other words Goku has infinite speed and can at will cross to whatever point in time he wants.
Pepsimanslover
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Doesn't limited 5D refer to a non significant 5D dimension tho. Like we don't call Low-1C structures limited in their dimensions because to be Low-1C they have to be significant in those 5 dimensions.
And I think it's 4 to 6 Low-1C structures in Greece, and one Low-1C structure in Norse.
Although they only scale to one in power and some of them scale to 4 to 6 in range (The Fates and Kratos with their powers).
I see.
