Mundus finally gets updated DMC

[Tony_di_bugalu]

First of all I have to thank @chosen for all his work since he had already done this profile for another wiki we just used stuff from it.

So the idea started with us wanting to fix profiles because they look absolutely disgusting... in this case we are talking about Mundus but as we were working on it we kept adding things and found others.

Here is the profile after being reworked.

So for abilities we expanded upon things that are already accepted and added others that, to us, seem self evident.

Spoiler: New stuff and abilities

• Power Bestowal (Can grant others powers.)
• Spatial Manipulation & Portal Creation (Grabbed apart space. to create a portal to the human world.)
• Additional Limbs (His true form has multiple arms.)
• Cosmic Awareness (Was aware of Vergil defeat against Dante while being in a different dimension.)

Edit: High Level Demons will get this since they are also resistant to the Bangle of Time effects

Resistance

• Enhanced Time Stop via willpower (Bangle of Time doesn't work on High Level Demons. Bangle of time is capable of stopping time which works on Low Level Demons despite their resistance to time manipulation.)

Also will

Beastheads alternative timeline

This is what saw the most change as we fixed everything including the bad formatting and abilities that were supposed to be deleted in prior threads along with adding scans and justifications for the abilities that were already present.

Now, taking my chance and to avoid another thread I want to propose some other abilities for The Demon King a.k.a. The Void

Non Existent Physiology

The Void a.k.a The Demon King or commonly known as "Void Mundus" is described as both the Heart and the Nexus of the Demon World, basically the source of reality, further emphasized as his death completely destroys the timeline. When Dante and Beryl travel to the castle of the king they reach a void and they enter hoping to meet with Mundus somewhere inside only to later realize the void was Mundus himself.

Dante was completely taken by surprise by mundus new form of existence or rather the lack of it as Mundus is described as a void itself.

This happens several times actually.

In verse The Demon King is more nonexistent than beings like Sargasso, who are non-existent and transparent as Dante at this point in the series has encountered such demon and yet he didn't realize that Mundus was the void itself and even then he wasn't sure how he was able to fight said Void.

Scaling above the sargassos who are non-existent spirits void mundus would have Aspect 1, 3 and 4. Since the Soul contains the Name (concept) and the Mind then Void Mundus would also have Aspects 2 too also he didn't have a Name prior to Dante giving him one.

Following the NEP page I will propose the following.

* Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 2 1; All aspects) (The Demon King has fused with the Heart and the Nexus of the Demon World and in turn became an empty void, a state superior of that of the Sargasso's own nonexistent nature and that should precede reality as the source of the Demon World. The Void is stated to exist outside of the flow of time and lack directions.)

Beyond Dimensional Existence

Beyond-Dimensional Existence is the state of existing beyond dimensions. In the majority of cases, this will be referring to characters who are timeless and spaceless.

The Void is regarded as something outside of time and something that lacks directions. The exact quotes being Up and down, or even left and right are uncertain in this space and He was supposed to be an absolute being, an eternal ruler free from even the flow of time, and to rule over all things in creation.

With this in mind they should qualify for Type 1: Characters who lack spatiotemporal features entirely, while not actually being superior to them in nature. They are simply ontologically different from any dimensional construct, but can ultimately still be comparable to dimension-bound entities in terms of raw power.

* Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 1) (The Demon King is a void without directions, detached of time)


Thats all
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Agree: (2) @Vietthai96 (disagrees with NEP 2, should be type1 and cosmic awareness), @Random-Helper323 (same as Viett)

disagree:

neutral:

 

[RedReaper616]

I dunno about BDE, but from the profile itself I think the Time Stop Resistance is a no-go, (as anyone with potent Willpower can resist the Bangle), so give him Supernatural Willpower instead, AND as the chains bound Nightmare’s Power, Statistics Reduction should be on there as well.

 

[Hecky2222]

Ngl I don't understand for what Type 2 is being proposed? Is this just Mundus NEP superior to Sargasoss? You can be pretty much superior to 0(Non-Existence) and be still 0. I don't get exactly where Mundus is neither 1 nor 0

 

[Ang4I00]

Neutral on NEP 2 since i'm unsure about the site standards on it rn but everything else looks good

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

feel like the existing outside of time portion is probably fine but that lacking directions bit on the other hand I feel like that really just leans on beryl's aimlessness in there more than anything (and from the looks of the imgur description it doesn't look like she really noticed what mundus was, really)

bangle of time being a willpower thing that can have supernatural will instead like one suggested prior and statistics reduction regarding the also sounds nice, concerning nightmare. neutral when it comes to nep and on bde 1 from what I remember about some characters who have (or should in regards to the latter anyway) have it.

 

[Robo432343]

The NEP thing was being discussed here but the thread kinda just died
neutral on nep

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I dunno about BDE, but from the profile itself I think the Time Stop Resistance is a no-go, (as anyone with potent Willpower can resist the Bangle), so give him Supernatural Willpower instead, AND as the chains bound Nightmare’s Power, Statistics Reduction should be on there as well.

The scan is "It does not affect those with strong mental fortitude." which is something that every single demon ever has. In fact its stated several times that demonic power requires exceptional willpower to control and demons do so without issue.

Heck, Nelo Angelo is, aside from Dante, the epitome of will power as he could resist and fight against Mundus changing his Name and placing his soul in the Nelo armor for so long and even he is affected by the bangle of time.

The quote is more like a relic of old times as the series has evolved past many of the claims in DMC1.

As for the Nightmare thing, iirc he didn't reduce Nightmare's powers, he just took his free will away and put him on a leash to prevent it from going wild and destroying the demon world. It could be status effect inducement but mind, soul and concept manip already follow those

Ngl I don't understand for what Type 2 is being proposed? Is this just Mundus NEP superior to Sargasoss? You can be pretty much superior to 0(Non-Existence) and be still 0. I don't get exactly where Mundus is neither 1 nor 0

Neutral on NEP 2 since i'm unsure about the site standards on it rn but everything else looks good

The idea is that Mundus being a void goes beyond conventional NEP as it is superior to that of the Sargasso but as it is probably a side effect of him merging with the Heart and the Nexus of the demon world (which should exist before the demon world or reality itself) it would qualify for NEP 2

feel like the existing outside of time portion is probably fine but that lacking directions bit on the other hand I feel like that really just leans on beryl's aimlessness in there more than anything (and from the looks of the imgur description it doesn't look like she really noticed what mundus was, really)

bangle of time being a willpower thing that can have supernatural will instead like one suggested prior and statistics reduction regarding the also sounds nice, concerning nightmare. neutral when it comes to nep and on bde 1 from what I remember about some characters who have (or should in regards to the latter anyway) have it.

Yeah Beryl was completely lost inside the Void. She isn't really aimless since she knows "where" Dante is fighting as she sees flashes of the fight, its just that directions are impossible to distinguish for her despite having a clear line of view of Dante somewhere in the void. And she never realized the nature of the Void which is that of Mundus himself.

Bangle of time I talked in the first part of this comment.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

The NEP thing was being discussed here but the thread kinda just died
neutral on nep

That thread is outdated as hell since it was using PoC which for obvious reasons isn't allowed.

Also 4 years ago... bruh

 

[RedReaper616]

The scan is "It does not affect those with strong mental fortitude." which is something that every single demon ever has. In fact its stated several times that demonic power requires exceptional willpower to control and demons do so without issue.

Heck, Nelo Angelo is, aside from Dante, the epitome of will power as he could resist and fight against Mundus changing his Name and placing his soul in the Nelo armor for so long and even he is affected by the bangle of time.

The quote is more like a relic of old times as the series has evolved past many of the claims in DMC1.

All that means is that people who resist the Bangle have even Greater Willpower. We need more specific evidence to say the parameters of resisting the Bangle of Time (an item that ONLY appears in DMC1) has changed. Just because others have casual demonstrations of Ungodly Willpower doesn’t mean this retroactively affects no one, it just heightens the bar.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

... Why did you wrote all aspects? We don't even have clear evidence for information let alone it being non-existent.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

... Why did you wrote all aspects? We don't even have clear evidence for information let alone it being non-existent.

idk it should be superior to the sargasso who have Aspect 4 according to your thread

All that means is that people who resist the Bangle have even Greater Willpower. We need more specific evidence to say the parameters of resisting the Bangle of Time (an item that ONLY appears in DMC1) has changed. Just because others have casual demonstrations of Ungodly Willpower doesn’t mean this retroactively affects no one, it just heightens the bar.

Hmmmmm

I'm not convinced but staff is the one that decides in the end.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

idk it should be superior to the sargasso who have Aspect 4 according to your thread

I never argued aspect 4 mate, check again. As for Mundus, I suppose type 5 would include time so it should be fine?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

you dumbass

I never argued aspect 4 mate, check again. As for Mundus, I suppose type 5 would include time so it should be fine?

Devil May Cry: Peak of Combat Additions

Sup Ladies And Gentleman! This is just a simple and on-point revision: Demonic Energy Related: Madness Manipulation (Type 3) & Perception Manipulation: Demonic Energy can induce madness as well as hallucination to whoever comes close to it. Mind, Madness & Empathic Manipulation: Staff of...

vsbattles.com

unless you mistook 2 with 4

concept with info

still tho mundus became one with the stuff that predates reality so it should count

 

[SuperSonicTL]

you dumbass

Devil May Cry: Peak of Combat Additions

Sup Ladies And Gentleman! This is just a simple and on-point revision: Demonic Energy Related: Madness Manipulation (Type 3) & Perception Manipulation: Demonic Energy can induce madness as well as hallucination to whoever comes close to it. Mind, Madness & Empathic Manipulation: Staff of...

vsbattles.com

unless you mistook 2 with 4

concept with info

still tho mundus became one with the stuff that predates reality so it should count

Dang... How did that happened-

 

[Hecky2222]

The idea is that Mundus being a void goes beyond conventional NEP as it is superior to that of the Sargasso

Being superior to NEP 1, 3 wouldn't be layer into NEP 1, let alone NEP 2.

Mundus can be just greater in NEP 1.

If NEP 1 = Nonexistence, NEP 2 is Nonduality itself where you aren't Existence or Nonexistence. People think it is just layer or beyond into NEP 1 but NEP 2 is essence change. With almost similar reasoning Tensura NEP 2 didn't get accepted recently.

To get my point fully let's say [0] is Nothing, [1] is Existence. You can be beyond [0], greater than [0], comeback after your [0] getting erased, as long as your essence of nonexistence doesn't change you are going beyond and deeper into [0] just. So if there is deeper nonexistence where [0, Deeper 0, Even Deeper 0] exists NEP 2 would be there is something is neither [0] nor [1].

but as it is probably a side effect of him merging with the Heart and the Nexus of the demon world (which should exist before the demon world or reality itself)

Only thing really can be argued is this. Do we have evidence Demon World being NEP 1 World or getting accepted as NEP 1 world? If yes I can see why you are arguing for NEP 2.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Only thing really can be argued is this. Do we have evidence Demon World being NEP 1 World or getting accepted as NEP 1 world? If yes I can see why you are arguing for NEP 2.

Why Demon World should have NEP for this? I believe Tony's argument should be that since he is merged with the nexus of Demon World, he is essentially existent (as the essence of Demon World itself) and non-existent (a living void). Hence, granting him type 2 via being paradoxically existent and non-existent at the same time.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Okay, Tony and Sonic, can you two calm down?

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Okay, Tony and Sonic, can you two calm down?

Since aspect 4 was a mistake from my part. I'd recommend @Tony_di_bugalu to remove that from the OP. Besides that, I think everything else is fine.

 

[Hecky2222]

he is merged with the nexus of Demon World, he is essentially existent (as the essence of Demon World itself) and non-existent (a living void)

What you described is just NEP 3. Being existent and nonexistent is being 1 and 0. Which would fall into this

In terms of binary, where existence is 1 and nonexistence is 0, this would be part 0 and part 1 simultaneously.

I said I can sense NEP 2 if for example, Demon World or at least some place in it is NEP 1(Ordinary NEP) and Heart and the Nexus of the demon world is before them(In this case Demon World would govern Nonexistence, Existence itself whereas Heart is beyond and before both of them, meaning neither of them) which can be somewhat good argument. I can see why you are arguing NEP 2 due to Sargassos being NEP 1 and hence Heart exists before his NEP, but argument along seems very iffy.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Being superior to NEP 1, 3 wouldn't be layer into NEP 1, let alone NEP 2.

Mundus can be just greater in NEP 1.

If NEP 1 = Nonexistence, NEP 2 is Nonduality itself where you aren't Existence or Nonexistence. People think it is just layer or beyond into NEP 1 but NEP 2 is essence change. With almost similar reasoning Tensura NEP 2 didn't get accepted recently.

To get my point fully let's say [0] is Nothing, [1] is Existence. You can be beyond [0], greater than [0], comeback after your [0] getting erased, as long as your essence of nonexistence doesn't change you are going beyond and deeper into [0] just. So if there is deeper nonexistence where [0, Deeper 0, Even Deeper 0] exists NEP 2 would be there is something is neither [0] nor [1].


Only thing really can be argued is this. Do we have evidence Demon World being NEP 1 World or getting accepted as NEP 1 world? If yes I can see why you are arguing for NEP 2.

I think you missed the whole point lol.

Mundus IS greater than some random NEP 1&3 but that isn't the sole reason for me proposing type 2. Mundus, after becoming the source of the demon world became such void and the source of the demon world is obviously what created the demon world.

As the NEP page says, characters on this level do not exist in a sense beyond conventional NEP and as such they may display the same qualities as a type 1 but with further evidence such as preceding or opposing reality.

I this case I am going for the first option. Void Mundus is a void that goes beyond conventional NEP as a result of its weird state after becoming the source of reality which should obviously predate said reality. I was told to stop using other verses as examples in a thread I made when I was doing research for this but this reasoning has been allowed for other several verses. I know it sounds like "whataboutthism" but the idea was to find precedents in order to understand how NEP 2 could be

In other words what I'm proposing is that the Heart and the Nexus of the demon world (aka the source of the demon world) is a void that predates reality and goes beyond conventional nonexistent such as sargassos' and Mundus, upon becoming said void, inherited those traits.


As for the Tensura stuff, from a quick glance at it the reason why NEP 2 wasn't accepted was because the proof didn't exactly bring that the void opposed existence, just life, life force and energy. I could be totally wrong too.


edit: snip at sonic

 

[Hecky2222]

In other words what I'm proposing is that the Heart and the Nexus of the demon world (aka the source of the demon world) is a void that predates reality and goes beyond conventional nonexistent such as sargassos' and Mundus, upon becoming said void, inherited those traits.

I can see where you are arguing it from. And if for NEP 2 just predating NEP 1 character would be enough, my point can be brushed off.

My point is if Demon World has "Nonexistence places" it would mean -> Demon World has both [0 and 1] governing places. And you could argue Heart is neither [0 and 1]. Just from my viewpoint arguing if only NEP is Sargasso specific and we don't have proofs if NEP 1 governs some parts of DW, I am personally very iffy if that counts for NEP 2

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

AFAIK it doesn't necessarily need some nonexistent place or location, just being beyond/outside/predating other kinds of NEP is enough (or at least that's what I saw in other profiles) but ultimately staff is the one that decides. In this case it is just as a comparison that "The Void" is of a different kind and superior to that of conventional NEP found in the verse.

Heck the NEP page directly says that preceding reality or opposing it may be characteristics of this kind of NEP but when I made a thread people said no (which is weird cuz the page says yes), point is I think it should qualify.

 

[Netoriman]

Could Mundus quality for Acausality 1? since he is detached from time.
'Type 1: Time Paradox Immunity: Characters with this type of Acausality are rendered immune to changes in the past and standard temporal paradoxes'

 

[Ang4I00]

Could Mundus quality for Acausality 1? since he is detached from time.
'Type 1: Time Paradox Immunity: Characters with this type of Acausality are rendered immune to changes in the past and standard temporal paradoxes'

Every demon already has that

 

[Mister6ame6]

Looks fine the CTR

 

[Netoriman]

Every demon already has that

Oh yeah, I only looked at the Mundus profile, forgetting about the physiology page.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

NEP2 isn't really "you're beyond some place that exists and a particular location that shows nonexistent properties" and is more like "your void is outside the very categories of existence/nonexistence"

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Yeah. Technically I'm abusing a faulty system since its kinda easy to get NEP 2 when in reality it should be hard and very specific (see Chinese verses or Abi from Fate)

also bumpo

 

[Hawktaro]

Bump bring immeasurable speed back bruh

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Bump bring immeasurable speed back bruh

Actually infinite speed is coming when this is over since the reason for the infinite speed debunk was that "mundus isn't a void/mundus is hiding in the void/mundus is hiding in the dark"

also bump

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Resistance

• Enhanced Time Stop (Bangle of Time doesn't work on Mundus. Bangle of time is capable of stopping time which works on Demons despite their resistance to time manipulation.)

This is already a resistance for General Tier Demon Lords and above on physiology page. I don't see why Mundus needs special addition.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Demon_Physiology_(Devil_May_Cry)#Abilities

I swear we used to have it on page.

Also using willpower definitions of wiki is useless as resistance for Bangle of Time. Willpower is legitimate and central mechanic of DMC which directly translates to magical energy. Having will power alone won't allow someone to resist the Bangle, especially crossverse battles. More willpower = More Magical Potency = More Resistance and Hax power.

• Supernatural Willpower (All characters, including both demons & humans, possess a high level of willpower. Humans have shown their great willpower in the various ways throughout the series. Demons get their power from humans, even their minds & souls, so they also possess the potential of a human's supernatural willpower. Dante even explains mechanics of how power of humanity works. It is in fact responsible magical potential in humans and allows empathetic demons to reach new heights of power)
  
  
• Subjective Reality (Via their imagination/subconscious Demons decide how their powers evolve. Demons are inherently tied to their desires, as is Demonic Power. This is seen in the Ascension Ceremony, where it's outright stated their powers are related to their body and mind, which is why Credo is so powerful. The results were the manifestation of his resolve. Dante stated Credo's Angelic Death was only possible because he imagined it that way. Demons evolves as a species-Based on their desires)

 

[KLOL506]

Tony asked me to so here we go

@Planck69 @Elizhaa @LephyrTheRevanchist @DarkDragonMedeus @LordGriffin1000 @Dereck03 @Maverick_Zero_X @Just a Random Butler @Starter_Pack @SomebodyData

@Theglassman12 @KingTempest @UchihaSlayer96 @Emirp sumitpo @AbaddonTheDisappointment @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Catzlaflame @Nierre @Dalesean027 @Imaginym @Godernet @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Reiner04 @Vietthai96 @TWILIGHT-OP

Y'all's help would be appreciated.

 

[Hecky2222]

Tony asked me to so here we go

@Planck69 @Elizhaa @LephyrTheRevanchist @DarkDragonMedeus @LordGriffin1000 @Dereck03 @Maverick_Zero_X @Just a Random Butler @Starter_Pack @SomebodyData

@Random-Helper323 @Theglassman12 @KingTempest @UchihaSlayer96 @Emirp sumitpo @AbaddonTheDisappointment @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Catzlaflame @Nierre @Dalesean027 @Imaginym @Godernet @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Reiner04 @Vietthai96 @TWILIGHT-OP

Y'all's help would be appreciated.

damn this is truly Avengers team for little thread

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

This is already a resistance for General Tier Demon Lords and above on physiology page. I don't see why Mundus needs special addition.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Demon_Physiology_(Devil_May_Cry)#Abilities

I swear we used to have it on page.

Also using willpower definitions of wiki is useless as resistance for Bangle of Time. Willpower is legitimate and central mechanic of DMC which directly translates to magical energy. Having will power alone won't allow someone to resist the Bangle, especially crossverse battles. More willpower = More Magical Potency = More Resistance and Hax power.

preeeetty sure only Nelo Angelo and Mundus can actually resist this the others all get stopped

Tony asked me to so here we go

@Planck69 @Elizhaa @LephyrTheRevanchist @DarkDragonMedeus @LordGriffin1000 @Dereck03 @Maverick_Zero_X @Just a Random Butler @Starter_Pack @SomebodyData

@Theglassman12 @KingTempest @UchihaSlayer96 @Emirp sumitpo @AbaddonTheDisappointment @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Catzlaflame @Nierre @Dalesean027 @Imaginym @Godernet @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Reiner04 @Vietthai96 @TWILIGHT-OP

Y'all's help would be appreciated.

thank you

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

preeeetty sure only Nelo Angelo and Mundus can actually resist this the others all get stopped

Go play the game again Tony lol, all generals resist it. Phantom, Griffon, Nightmare. All thier boss fights from early to late. Only Nelo 1 and Nelo 2 boss fight can be time stopped. He evolves to resist in 3rd fight.

 

[Apotheosis69]

Everything seems fine. Other than Nonexistent Physiology Type 2, that is not Type 2 at all.

You have to be Neither Existent Nor Non-Existent. I personally view it as like you being -1, instead of 0 (normal Nonexistence) and 1 (Existence), ofc correct me if I'm wrong.

And what was the reason for Aspect 4, Nonexistent Information again?

 

[Vietthai96]

Aware of something happening in a different dimension isn't cosmic awareness, just extrasensory perception with interdimensional or extradimensional range

I don't see NEP2 argument work, dude is just a void, he being superior to a nonexistent skull and merged with something preceding reality isn't an argument equivalent to character A is NEP and is also not existence and nonexistence.

Though it can get one layer deeper into NEP1

The rest seems fine

 

[Tanin_iver]

Enhanced Time Stop (Bangle of Time doesn't work on Mundus. Bangle of time is capable of stopping time which works on Demons despite their resistance to time manipulation.

Wasn't Bangle of Time some Soul BFR in the RAWs?
Everything else seems fine.
Regarding NEP I think @Vietthai96 described my views perfectly. A layer into NEP1 seems more appropriate imo.

BDE1 seems ok.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Vietthai's suggestions seem reasonable, and the rest of the thread is fine.

Edit: so cosmic awareness and NEP 2 are the only issues. Everything else is fine.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Fine, I won't argue the NEP 2 shit.

For cosmic awareness, this thing can let you observe and hear things over vast distances (with vast being interstellar o higher distances) since it acts as a combination of clairvoyance and enhanced senses. Thinking about it the ability is misused a ton since this should be more like the Beastheads bs that gives you infinite knowledge of the cosmos and everything in existence but that's irrelevant to me.