At the same time, how is it fair to go after one verse and ignore others that use the same reasoning for CM1. That leads to things such as unfair vs debates.
Like I said on discord Let’s just add a note that says most of the haxes of basic magic are non combat applicable for most sorcerers, boom everyone’s mostly happy when it comes to marvel, the other verses can have their supporters deal with it
I know it’s unfair. It’s literally the biggest issue on the site.
it’s just what our standards say I guess, this isn’t the thread to change the standards, this is the thread to make sure marvel fits the standards
I mean magic still affects souls which are personal type 1 concepts so if magic's own CM1 is ruled as non-combat applicable it's not that big a change, I'm moreso concerned about the principle of it.
Totally not susIt’s totally not suspicious that magic is just a bunch of energy, definitely not at all. Very interesting how this energy can be converted into other materials. Totally not eye-raising how that’s not what a universal is in any way, mhm. Also, definitely not the exact reason why Hoyo lost CM1, as well. Absolutely, definitely not.
Man, a lot of this sure is hella fluff now that I read it. Some of this stuff doesn’t even faithfully relegate what the scans themselves say, nor do they even seem to actually imply CM1.
But what do I know. There’s probably some 40 year old issue that just so happens to fix all these problems. It definitely will contradict a shitton of stuff later on, but this is comics so it doesn’t matter, I guess.
How are souls personal type 1 concepts?
vsbattles.fandom.com
Neutral on the OP’s thread, but I don’t expect anything to being always fair and the unfairness is also subjective to many factors as well hence I generally don’t go out of way to do any Versus Debating despite being a member since VSBW is technically a indexing site firstmost despite the name.
CM type 1 don’t need to Universe big, just independent of what they encompases, is same way of divine forms of platonism that our souls represent a greater existence than is separe of and beyond the material world, the area of influence can be whatever
No, it depend if the verse define dualities, otherwise our own standard are wrong becuase Is said "true" and "false" count as dualities, not "true" and "non-true", as well there is this part:
The basic representation of dualities relate to "red" and "non-red" is in case there no exist any definition
This is not CM1. At all. Like, not even close.
Fair point
Buddy I helped make the Aeon Physiology page, I've been paying close attention to Honkai stuff.Aint this just souls and the soq/ims
You probably wouldnt know what im talking abt but thats the exact sane stuff as hoyo yet we lost cm1.
Mb all
Doesn't the first scan Essoss sent litterally say magic is a universal energy
Think they're talking about souls.
Ah. Well from a quick glance, the soul power thing is stated to be capable of shaping the Universe, so why isn't it Universal?
I was about to say there's also this:
What are you arguing? That an energy cannot be conceptual because its an energy?
No, that it’s not conceptual in the sense Type 1 requires.
Alright, lets ignore the basic of platón which is how our system is based on
vsbattles.fandom.com
To go further I would also suggest citing a note referencing the Feat section and then citing some feats that the character has performed with Magic in said feat section. This will make it easy for everyone. As for those that have no feats with magic a non-combat applicable note will suffice imo.
You previously said this, does this work for you ?
No, he is correct. A Type 1 concept just has to be independent of reality and the object it governs. And well, shape said object and its extensions.
Sure, though with souls being what they are, this is unlikely to change much for characters that can destroy those, since that's concept destruction.
I guess this is fine then
I agree, however it's still better imo to furnish the profiles with feats showcasing the capabilities and possible limitations to prevent any sort of NLF also I believe it would make it easy to do versus threads since a supporter who isn't very knowledgeable can still participate and directly cite feats.
True. Granted, if Magic can provably inherently damage souls it would be different, but I do not think that is the case here.
The “Soul” in reference is in a state of Pure Noesis, wherein it contemplates the Forms via its intellectual faculty as pure comprehension, independent of discursive thinking. Not that its ontology is identical to a Form, if that’s what you’re implying.
That’s literally not what the CM page says at all, by the way. It explicitly references a particular part of philosophy, and I’d particularly assume we’d follow the basic logic of what we’re appealing to.
I’m saying that a concept’s derivative effects should emulate what is expected of those. And arbitrarily being independent isn’t anywhere close to that. At all.
It referencing the philosophy for naming convention of its type, isn't a standard on the page. The actual description, the thing we actually use to give Conceptual Manipulation to characters, gives its requirements quite plainly, and they are as I have just said.
It’s not a nominal thing. I literally linked the part where the CM page describes Type 1 word-for-word as to how we’d describe universals. And I know that’s the intention here, because even Ultima posits CM1 as a universal in the philosophical sense.
Then I suppose it's a difference in our understanding of that page.
Universal in this context does not refer to a literal universe. It means something that applies to all things, at any time and everywhere.
Interesting.
Indeed. Refer to DT's comment.
