Chaotic Honkai Verse Upgrade (1-A & L1-A)

[PedjaTarzan]

I think this is so funny because even if we grant all the inconsistencies and whatnot and assume Cocoon is L1A or 1A or smthn, it’s causal power would still quite literally be delimited by the Tree’s Imaginary Energy and that it explicitly is incapable of affecting “lower realities” like SoQ:

So it’d be “Low 1-A but actually caps at 5D”

also whats funny is that they do this, but also do this:

Einstein: You’ve realised.

Einstein: We don’t know what the Cocoon is… but I’m guessing it’s a template.

Einstein: Project STIGMA will merge reality and Imaginary Space, presumably to synchronise the humans defined by them with Finality forcefully.

Einstein: If I’m entirely correct, the authority of Finality that Kevin shoulders will be spread evenly over all humans one day.

Einstein: All surviving new humans will be cursed with Finality, though it’ll most likely be harmless by that time.

When kiana embraces CoF she gets remnants of project stigma from CoF, like i would personally come and ask the writers are they just intentionally wanking SoQ or CoF or that they really are inconsistency final boss, not that i care since im also fine with l1C CoF

 

[SuperNova55555]

Sa who absorbed the energy of SoQ unable to maintain her existence as physical being, later becomes someone similar to Su.

The energy came from the depths of sea of quanta which is referred to as the void. Since Sa and Vita can interact with Su above the sea, it's likely they are in the same plane of existence not to even mentione their similar incoporeal states.

And this addresses my point how?

 

[Weaver261]

And this addresses my point how?

Oh yeah, I forgot that you don't play the game xD

Well basically, the energy Sa was absorbing came from the depths of SoQ which allows her to become someone like Su who ascended to higher plane. And since Vita referred to the place where she was created by Sa as "The void", it's pretty consistent with the place where Su currently exist. Since I am arguing that place as chaos which should be L1-A, it sums up quite well imo
So, it's possible that CoF can't control whatever inside that higher plane since it explictly states that it govens even honkai. It's plausible that CoF can't do anything about this entity.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Since I am arguing that place as chaos which should be L1-A, it sums up quite well imo

It can’t be chaos since that’s where the universe is born, but we know the universe is born from IS, so only IS can be chaos in this sense. As you suggested way earlier. So no “part” of SoQ can be chaos here.

The issue is then once again that the statements directly talk about the sea being outside of the Cocoon’s control, not any particular part of it; just the sea in general.

 

[Vietthai96]

Low 1-A what now?, SoQ?, how?, the same thing stated by Otto to be a higher-dimensional concept along with the Tree?. Dude literally conceptualized the entire cosmology using Tree and Sea analogy and stated they are higher-dimensional. So Otto is stupid and unreliable now?

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Low 1-A whatnow?, SoQ?, how?, the same thing stated by Otto to be a higher-dimensional concept along with the Tree?. Dude literally conceptualized the entire cosmology using Tree and Sea analogy and stated they are higher-dimensional. So Otto is stupid and unreliable now?

I mean...Zandar exists too

 

[SuperNova55555]

I mean...Zandar exists too

He only analogized the part of the universe belonging to the Tree. HSR mfs are aware that SoQ exists, they just dont talk about it for some reason

 

[PedjaTarzan]

He only analogized the part of the universe belonging to the Tree. HSR mfs are aware that SoQ exists, they just dont talk about it for some reason

still, otto has his own view at the cosmology and zandar has its own. Its the matter of time before Acha just starts talking about SoQ too.
what i mean is that this verse is so incoherent that no one is absolutely reliable.
CoF was called higher dimensional structure, Alien civilization, SoQ victim etc...
And yet its also said to transcend dimensions, space and time and that its origin of space.
IN FACT Otto says Tree is higher dimensional but also says it doesnt exist in any dimensions you can get in touch with. so no otto is not absolutely reliable either.

 

[Weaver261]

It can’t be chaos since that’s where the universe is born, but we know the universe is born from IS, so only IS can be chaos in this sense. As you suggested way earlier. So no “part” of SoQ can be chaos here.

The issue is then once again that the statements directly talk about the sea being outside of the Cocoon’s control, not any particular part of it; just the sea in general.

That's kinda confusing since Sa who was in the depths of SoQ can interact with Su who ascended to a higher plane. So, there must be some sort of connection between the depth of SoQ which Vita referred to as "The Void" and the "The Void of infinite possibility" that Su ascended into. Mind that Su also ascended to that plane while he sank into bottom of SoQ. So yeah, I am lost as you guys are xD

 

[Vietthai96]

He only analogized the part of the universe belonging to the Tree. HSR mfs are aware that SoQ exists, they just dont talk about it for some reason

Never play HSR, but probably because HSR mostly took place in the Imaginary Tree, the Bubble World and SoQ only involves in HI3rd

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

That's kinda confusing since Sa who was in the depths of SoQ can interact with Su who ascended to a higher plane. So, there must be some sort of connection between the depth of SoQ which Vita referred to as "The Void" and the "The Void of infinite possibility" that Su ascended into. Mind that Su also ascended to that plane while he sank into bottom of SoQ. So yeah, I am lost as you guys are xD

Doesn't Fu Hua meet Su in the Path of the Fairy? Since Su said it was closer to him than any of his karma on Earth. Path of the Fairy also said as some kind of place between higher dimensions and SoQ if I recall.

 

[Weaver261]

Doesn't Fu Hua meet Su in the Path of the Fairy? Since Su said it was closer to him than any of his karma on Earth. Path of the Fairy also said as some kind of place between higher dimensions and SoQ if I recall.

Mind if you provide scan about that. I know the chapter and the exact conversation between them but i don't recall seeing anything that you claimed. Also, Su was projected into the place as a leaf. No?

 

[SuperNova55555]

what i mean is that this verse is so incoherent that no one is absolutely reliable.

So yeah, I am lost as you guys are xD

There is a certain solution to this problem…

Never play HSR, but probably because HSR mostly took place in the Imaginary Tree, the Bubble World and SoQ only involves in HI3rd

It’s js like incredibly strange, because from the description they should pretty much be completely aware of what SoQ is and it’s general functions, but it literally never gets referenced anywhere else in the game aside from this description.

This is similar to Honkai as well, Welt directly talks about Honkai and we know that mfs like Herta and Lygus are explicitly aware of what Internal Imaginary Energy is (since Nanook and Stellarons are made of it), but aside from that Welt dialogue, Honkai as even a term is nowhere to be seen (if we exclude SW Lv.999’s ability names lmao)

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Mind if you provide scan about that. I know the chapter and the exact conversation between them but i don't recall seeing anything that you claimed. Also, Su was projected into the place as a leaf. No?

yea he projected himself as a leaf

 

[Weaver261]

There is a certain solution to this problem…

Fire it. Personally, Prirmodial Chaos being Imaginary space as well as the higher plane where Su ascend and the place Vita referred to as The Void when she was in the depths of SoQ, all of them being one thing solves a lot of problems. Oh yeah I almost forgot. Since you changed your mind about Imaginary space L1-A, what happened to HooH L1-A though? Isn't it a seperate argument unrelated to Imaginary singularity?

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Mind if you provide scan about that. I know the chapter and the exact conversation between them but i don't recall seeing anything that you claimed. Also, Su was projected into the place as a leaf. No?

Yes he projected as a leaf.
Never mind, Su's spatial awareness only encompass few planets so it was hard to influence the real world but not the Fairy Path using the anchor of karma he left behind.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Fire it.

Delete the verse

But honestly I can’t see to your interpretation with so much headcanon. I js think where those mfs went is some place similar to the Cocoon or whatnot, and we alr know the Cocoon isn’t properly transcendental itself

Since you changed your mind about Imaginary space L1-A, what happened to HooH L1-A though?

The HooH stuff is honestly js a bunch of allegories, all things considered. Especially considering that he’s not really omnipotent at all, nor is he prior to even Real Space lmao.

 

[Weaver261]

Delete the verse

Atp I will just wank the verse to 1-A via yog to godheads to wonderland to imaginary space lol

I think we can conclude the discussion here since non consensus can be reached. I will just wait for staffs to determine if Cocoon singularity L1-A apply to Imaginary space or not.

 

[Vietthai96]

I remember i already said even in Supernova first Low 1-A upgrade that CoF or Imaginary Singularity isn't Low 1-A

 

[SuperNova55555]

I remember i already said even in Supernova first Low 1-A upgrade that CoF or Imaginary Singularity isn't Low 1-A

What was Low 1-A then. Huh?

 

[PedjaTarzan]

I remember i already said even in Supernova first Low 1-A upgrade that CoF or Imaginary Singularity isn't Low 1-A

The Imaginary Singularity, which exists within Imaginary Space, is the source of all space that simultaneously exists in every spatial dimension with itself being non-dimensional. The Imaginary Space itself is a realm where in all quantitative differentiation is absolved and Real things are merely the projection of those objects in Imaginary Space, and as it contains the essence of everything in the universe, all things eventually converge back to it in unity. Meaning, since the Singularity—and conversely the Space itself—is the unity of all dimensions and space into their negation [as it doesn’t possess dimensionality nor real spatiality], it delimits differentiation between every axis encompassed by it which implies that it is capable of affecting any higher spatial dimension without requiring any additional effort. Due to this, the Imaginary Singularity and the Imaginary Space will both be granted Low 1-A.

i agree fra

 

[Mbpoops]

The same “beyond-dimensional SoQ” which bubble worlds inherit their 11 dimensions from? P and not-P lelelel.

What not-p dimensions does it inherit?

 

[SuperNova55555]

What not-p dimensions does it inherit?

Bubble worlds inherit non-existent dimensions... wow. New NEP meta

 

[Mbpoops]

Bubble worlds inherit non-existent dimensions... wow. New NEP meta

What..?

 

[SuperNova55555]

What..?

It's called humor, liberal.

 

[Mbpoops]

It's called humor, liberal.

My bad bru

 

[Mbpoops]

I remember i already said even in Supernova first Low 1-A upgrade that CoF or Imaginary Singularity isn't Low 1-A

How… did it get accepted then bru…

 

[Mbpoops]

Bump

 

[Mbpoops]

Bump

 

[Mbpoops]

Bump

 

[Mbpoops]

Bump

 

[Mbpoops]

Bump

 

[KingOfDarknessBelow]

Bump

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

So what is the conclusion here?

 

[KirbyFan03]

So what is the conclusion here?

No upgrades

 

[Weaver261]

Huuu....I admit it. This is really chaotic and a mess. The fault is entirely mine.
Anyway, here is the summary for the staffs to evaluate and I hope nobody would try to drown this summary with their useless replies. I request you all.

Summary
----------
This is the accepted L1-A arguement before it was downgraded due to a mistranslation. Now, the mistranslation is resolved and L1-A should be back but the person who proposed the upgrade themselves said they changed their mind about L1-A and says it's no longer valid. And this is their reason. I hope staffs can evaluate whether L1-A is still valid or not since I can't say for sure. L1-A if accepted will only apply to Imaginary space and its residents. (edited - I also want to add up that Imaginary Singularity isn't 1D point but rather a point that has no dimensional information and dimensionless. It's where space itself was born. Idk how much of that will be relevant and usable but i'll drop it just in case)

Yog Sothoth Part
--------------------
This is simple. Yog Sothoth can create worlds from words and texts. And second line heavily indicates R>F where you (the person who reached to yog's realm) is looking the speaker through line of text establishing R>F. Yog Sothoth will be 1-A.

Language frames the world, words make the rules, and so space and time are framed beyond this.
You, for example, are looking at this line of text, and as I am, looking at you through this line of text.
This is how divine power works. Humans get old, their hair grays, but how about the world within words? This is the divine power of God, "description", or "definition". The only way to define the boundaries is to transcend them, and because we are free from all things, we can create all things, and so all things are born in our hands.
Many people through the ages have expressed their ideas through words, seeing them as tools, but they had not imagined that the real world is born from words, so just one word may contribute to the rise of a universe from the concept of chaos, and then fixate it, so it never perishes again.

Chaos Part
------------
Chaos is the initial state of all things, it's nothingness and embodiment of everything.
Chaos is a reality created by Azathoth herself.
All things are born from Chaos as stated by Nyarlathotep
Metis, the goddess of wisdom's lore also stated the same thing again
It birthed the Universe which we called "Imaginary Tree" now.

In short, Chaos is the origin of everything and the void of nothingness with infinite possibilities. Since yin and yang exists in Honkai cosmology, Chaos would be similar to wuji as being an undifferentiated void where different individuals emerged from it and producing more complex informations.

Soon after, life was born from this primordial sea. Different individuals intertwined, producing more and more complex information. Over time, patterns and forms were recorded by an observer.

Since Chaos is also the canvas where yog sothoth can bring forth world from words and texts, it serves as a medium for R>F which can produce anything that language can offer. Chaos also should be L1-A for that.

Staff Evaluations:
@Reiner04 seems to have no problem with 1-A Yog Sothoth but seem to disagree L1-A imaginary space and chaos (Although I would prefer re evaluation since things got messed up and this summary should be evaluated)
@Vietthai96 has no comment about 1-A Yog Sothoth and disagree with L1-A entirely (also this need re evaluation since things have changed a lot)

What needs to be discussed was discussed already in 14 pages before now. So I appriciately if you guys don't drown this summary with no new information replies. Thanks a lot

 

[SuperNova55555]

The main issue pretty much is that IS is used interchangeably with IT… which makes it explicitly dimensional. So Cocoon, to be L1A, has to exist in some weird way outside of it whist also remaining within it in some other way. Which we aren’t told at all at how this could function… all we know is that it’s a “point within Imaginary Space” and that’s that. Also the general issues with how it wouldn’t have L1A AP even if it had L1A existence since the former is delimited by the power within dimensional structures

As for Chaos stuff, I’m js waiting on TLs because that’s what will decide whether or not it’s bound by space-time or nah.

 

[Osemere]

Just looked at the OP evidence for Low 1-A imaginary space and I’m seeing nothing above simply an arbitrarily high-dimensioned Hilbert space for a Everettian multiverse. It doesn’t qualify.

 

[Mbpoops]

hilbert space… everything goes back to “the dimensions if space can be infinite”

 

[SuperNova55555]

hilbert space… everything goes back to “the dimensions if space can be infinite”

Pretty sure he’s talking about the configuration space here.

In any case, the MWI side of Honkai is cheeks in general (and explicitly contradicts itself).