Mbpoops
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type 6 or 8 immortality could work tho if they have seperate bodies they can swap to
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Genshin hax (sahl propaganda) removal 2
- Thread starter PedjaTarzan
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agree with op.
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Just saying, this is the scans used for her "narrative" and "reality"
With the first scan literally talking about istaroth writing the story of "world", but literal next sentence is how she engraved everything in her memory, basically what venti is talking about is istaroth experiencing the world herself and engraving every event in her memories.
Second scan i honestly cant believe how dishonest you sound, theres literally not a single world that this was Istaroth doing, not a single mention of narratives being rewritten and when columbina talks about reality being rewritten we literally dont know what she meant there with this one picture. do you at least have a context behind that specific scan?
re read what i said, then re read what you said. slimes and shades are fundamentally different beings.
said "concept" of time is also predated by time as well lol. how do you logically conclude time didnt exist if we already have moon gods rule over time before heavenly principles, or did we just forget that laws and foundations of the world were changed completely which made existence of erosion too.
I mean what we are talking about is what happens when your memories get erased, can you really expect someone to be same person if every piece of memory they have is erased, arlecchino explicitly talks how the ones person indetity is gone once memories get erased, literally what happened with scaramouche too.
Clervie was also stated to have emerged from those flames, meaning what we saw is the remaining memories of herself, you have arlechino stating that losing large protion of memories can alter your sense of self, Clervie we saw was stuck in past because all 10 years before her death were erased and we only saw a child her.
Okay now prove AE1 for Xiuhcoatl simply bcs he coated himself with Phlogiston.
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you completely miss the point of scaling which says istaroth wrote the story of the world. writing does not mean writing using a pen, writing a story here means that she is the author of the story that happened in the world, through her mind she does that, not writing like writing a book, this is what differentiates the level of superiority between istaroth and humans who use storytelling magic, so I strongly disagree if this is text manipulation, because istaroth does not need written media, he determines all the stories of the world by remembering them
ignore all explanations of the wheel of fate that regulates the stages of events so that it is likened to a drama whose plot and ending have been determined and continue to ignore all explanations about storytelling magic that literally regulates the narrative of the world like a simulanka, don't separate all of that because all of it is interconnected, you even only argue based on what you believe, yeah I'm not surprised anymore, because that's what is always done in CRT upgrades or downgrade the verses, but never mind, I just need to return it
yeah of course because all the events in teyvat are the result of what they have determined, that's why I gave everything about furina, simulanka etc.
What Columbina said was clearly true, because what is happening now is just a story determined by the heavenly gods, a story that has been engineered.
Therefore, it is explained here that the secret narrative has been blocked, which means that the current narrative is not the actual narrative of reality, but a narrative that has been rewritten.
bro, shades come from the same source, they are on the same level, and have the same physiology because they are all projection of heavenly principles, do you think slimes have different physiology just because of the difference in their elements?? obviously not, so do shades, even though they have different authorities, they still have the same physiology, because they themselves have trancendent all human boundaries.
hmm i dont understand what are you talking about? i didn't even say the concept of time existed before time itself, but they are the definitions of those concepts, erosion itself is a law caused by time, it's even explained in the wiki you showed, where erosion is a wear and tear that goes on over time, anyway why did you read it until this point when i already gave a different scan to classify the concept??
Bro, those two things are related, when their memories are completely erased, then a part of themselves will also be lost.
not just perception, but she really lost herself in her teenage years, because that part was already burned by the fire of arlecchino, if only the memory was burned, her form should not have appeared when she was still a child, but already when she was a teenager. so this is not just a memory but also a soul.
Bro, all sovereign dragons are pure elemental creatures. Phlogiston is information, so phlogyston lifeform is information lifeform
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Changing plot hax to fate hax and immortality to longevity looks okay at a glance, although I'd be interested to hear the counterpoints. The rest I'm not sure about.
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Counterpoint in here
Genshin hax (sahl propaganda) removal 2
Higher-Dimensional Existence [4-D] (The Ruler of Time Istaroth is the embodiment of time, encompassing the entire temporal dimension, governing and embodying the entire timeline of the microcosm across past, present and future. This is just Temporal Omnipresence, something she literally has on...
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bump
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Quick @Voidnether. It’s time for you to step up as the OP for the thread. Sahl also got cooked too.
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I will read it when available. By 24 maybe. Was asked to ping some staffs till then.
@Elizhaa @Planck69 @Qawsedf234 @LordGriffin1000 @Dalesean027 @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless
Your opinion on the thread will be appreciated.
@Elizhaa @Planck69 @Qawsedf234 @LordGriffin1000 @Dalesean027 @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless
Your opinion on the thread will be appreciated.
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bump because woomy gone
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Bump. I want to give inputs regarding HDE and AE1; The Shades were never stated to be higher-dimensional nor that they have to descend to the world below them, the entire justification is only that Istaroth is the entire timeline but we know this is false since Istaroth is only an aspect of Time elaborated here, especially as the Law.
vsbattles.com
Istaroth is also never the temporal dimension itself, there's a clear distinction between Istaroth which is only the Aspect (Law) of Time and the temporal dimension itself in the verse, the fact the Shades were divisible by 4 when they were created by Phanes debunks AE1.
Genshin Impact — Conceptual Moons (Accepted, but still require further clarifications)
Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) The thread was originally accepted here, honestly I don't see anything that states the Shades are concepts other than the concept of time one which wouldn't work since it talks about the concept of time as something that only exists in the mind. This is refering...
Istaroth is also never the temporal dimension itself, there's a clear distinction between Istaroth which is only the Aspect (Law) of Time and the temporal dimension itself in the verse, the fact the Shades were divisible by 4 when they were created by Phanes debunks AE1.
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Doesn’t Naberius’s case also prove this? The shades are divisible by parts and therefore can not be abstract.
Plus the whole deal with Ronova claiming that she’s merely a delegate/representative of Death rather than Death itself as well.
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aeons of hsr are also representatives of their path, so we must destroy that too.
representative does not always refer to something tangible, abstract entities can also be representatives of something
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For the staff who evaluated this CRT, this is a counter argument that refutes all the claims made in the CRT.Counterpoint in here
Genshin hax (sahl propaganda) removal 2
Higher-Dimensional Existence [4-D] (The Ruler of Time Istaroth is the embodiment of time, encompassing the entire temporal dimension, governing and embodying the entire timeline of the microcosm across past, present and future. This is just Temporal Omnipresence, something she literally has on...
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The aeons are not abstract either, mainly because they have physical presence in the universe and aeons like Terminus are divisible by parts. Your analogy doesn’t work.
Your basis for the Shades being abstract in the first place involves assuming that the Shades are the concepts themselves. Ronova being a representative of Death in the sense that she simply speaks for it in the place of Death itself implies she is not Death itself. Which means that your basis falls apart.
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Yeah, just nuke their AE1 and NEP1. With same reason
they are often said to be the abstractions they represent, so they are not only representatives, but they also exist purely as that thing
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Sure, why not. HoYo has made it clear that the Aeons are not literal embodiments of concepts, nor are they abstractions. You’re using a flawed argument to support another flawed argument. It’s a textbook non-sequitur.
They’re never called as abstractions. You can never prove that because it simply does not exist.
Furthermore, those are mutually exclusive. You cannot be the abstraction that you are a representative of, because representation requires a different identity, and if it requires a different identity, your argument falls apart.
The same way that people with actually relevant knowledge say that the Shades simply control a concept, not that they actually are them/embody them.
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Yeah, if you think like that I don't mind, I just have to destroy it later on another crt
you don't even show a single piece of evidence that refers to what you explained
Bro, do you really think death, life, space, and time are physical?
Abstractions don't have to be concepts or information; they can also be things like consciousness, logic, thought, and so on.
Death is intangible, which is why they can be categorized as abstractions.
Furthermore, I've explained several times in previous comments that time isn't just time, but rather the concept of time. Traveler further explains that it refers to the four boundaries of humanity, which refer to the four shades. So, the shades themselves are the four fundamental concepts that underpin reality. Because during the reign of the three moon goddesses, these concepts had not yet been defined and laws had not yet been enforced. This was because the laws and order of the old world were completely different from the new world order created by Phanes. Phanes transformed the world down to its most fundamental aspects and created order by overthrowing the boundaries of humanity.
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Feel free.
I am not burdened to prove a negative. Why do you keep asking others to prove a negative? I keep seeing this pattern from you with every message you type here. Next.
I don’t know how someone reads my point and comes to this conclusion. No, these concepts are not physical. But that does not matter—because to be abstract, the shades need to be the concept itself or be an embodiment of the concept. They’re neither. They simply obtain power from the respective concept, that is all. They fail to qualify for the simplest part about Abstract existence. Ronova saying that she merely obtains power from Death does not make sense if she’s Death itself:
我代表的可是死亡，從死亡這裡獲得力量，你能承受對應的代價嗎？
“What I represent is death. I acquire my power from death — can you bear the corresponding price?”
That’s tantamount to saying that any Time manipulator or any Death manipulator is abstract. They’re not, because they do not embody the concept. They’re same way, the Paths are abstract, but not the Aeons themselves.
You haven’t. None of them actually address the issue at hand.
Traveler and Dottore explain that the Four Boundaries of Humanities are because of the Four Gods, whose power anchor the world and all those who live in it. That is all they say, they do not say that the Shades themselves are the four fundamental concepts that underpin reality. They simply govern it. Hell, Dottore’s boss description even says that the four shades are simply false gods and those who do not deserve their mantle—they are not the concept themselves. They simply limit the world.
Neither Dottore nor traveler say what you said. What they said that the concepts limits humanity, not that the shades are these concepts themselves.
The concepts had been defined. What wasn’t defined is the boundary between them. This is precisely why Dottore wants the power of the Trilune—it works in a way that it does not shackle the fate of humanity. A sick person may not die, a person may not be born again and go through suffering, and they may not be bound by the space of this world. That is all. The power of Time, Death, Life and Space were defined far before the existence of the four shades, they simply had no boundary between them.
You also do not actually address the main issue here. In the statement i provided above, Ronova explicitly uses the word ‘代表’, which means to act on behalf of something else. This is a paradox, it means that she is acting on behalf of oneself which is a non-sensical thing to speak of as an external party. Further more, she later says that she obtains her power from death, which doesn’t make any sense either because why would someone that is supposedly ‘Death’ itself, obtain their power from Death? All the shades do is control their concept, which is what Dottore says too.
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Tbf, an Abstract being can creates lesser abstract beings, being created is hardly an anti-feat against AE1Bump. I want to give inputs regarding HDE and AE1; The Shades were never stated to be higher-dimensional nor that they have to descend to the world below them, the entire justification is only that Istaroth is the entire timeline but we know this is false since Istaroth is only an aspect of Time elaborated here, especially as the Law.
Genshin Impact — Conceptual Moons (Accepted, but still require further clarifications)
Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) The thread was originally accepted here, honestly I don't see anything that states the Shades are concepts other than the concept of time one which wouldn't work since it talks about the concept of time as something that only exists in the mind. This is refering...
Istaroth is also never the temporal dimension itself, there's a clear distinction between Istaroth which is only the Aspect (Law) of Time and the temporal dimension itself in the verse, the fact the Shades were divisible by 4 when they were created by Phanes debunks AE1.
But anyway, from what i could see in the OP, i think the revision is oke
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This should be fine, but like i said previously:
1. Naberius is divisible by parts, in a sense that a person can merge with her entire existence through that part.
2. The shades’s abstract existence is based off the fact that they supposedly embody/are the concepts themselves. But they’re not. They simply get their power from their respective concept, and are representatives.
Thank you regardless, speaking in place of Woomy because he got nuked
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Mbpoops
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those are just their avatars though aeons true forms are abstract in IMS
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I wouldn't call Phanes abstract ngl when it could just be an artificial intelligence but interesting
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The issue is that this is inconsistent because their full power being divisible into physical avatars is not something that’s coherent.
And there’s Tayzzy vs Oroboros as well.
Regardless, that’s a different thread, so let’s not derail too much here.
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Aeons have their respective True Form and their Avatar self, IX has thousands of manifestations spread across reality the same way Terminus has thousands of its manifestations spread across reality as black cats. Not really "divisible" when the entire thing is just Terminus sharing some of their authority to said black cats (it's like Pure Children of Anasrava manifesting from Fuli and there are hundreds of them too) as this would mean Aeons sharing their authority to their Emanators is an antifeat like Aha with the Noblesse Worm (entirety of their Path's power too) so yeah nah
These are their avatars on the physical plane, obviously it's tangible if anything (IX is an exception)
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The issue is not about creating physical avatars with “some” of their power. The issue is that all their divine power was divided into these cats. The PCOA and the cats aren’t the same thing.
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Aeons Authority ≠ Themselves, if this were actually the case then Aha giving away the entirety of Elation's authority to a literal Noblesse Worm is a disqualifier, Aeons Authority is just a powersource and the Aeons, well they're the Paths themselves anyway
I could discuss more later but yeah I don't think this is relevant either, there's like a very huge difference that Terminus interpretation cannot just be taken 1:1 when you know, this is revealed to only be Terminus manifestations anyway
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It’s not just the Authority of Finality that was divided into the cats. It was all THEIR divine power. That is the Path of Finality itself being divided into physical avatars.
It can be.
Aeons being the path itself also is incoherent. HSR has never been consistent with it, in fact, Aeons are also called Pathstriders, and a Path’s existence is independent of an Aeon’s existence.
The cats are just physical avatars of Terminus. That we already know. Terminus divided all their path into these physical cats, which means that they are divisible by parts because physical entities are holding all their power.
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Well, Aeons are never called as Pathstriders as far as I'm concerned and pretty sure Paths still existing after the Fall of an Aeon is because the Aeon simply is just inactive instead of them dying entirely. If you differentiated Aeons and Paths, then unironically nothing about this is related to Path of Finality being divided but rather Terminus themselves. So like you have to concede on one thing and say which one is which.
HSR in itself isn't as blatant as Genshin when the game never confirms about the death of the Aeons directly but rather that they just fell and their Paths influence weakened to the point they're in slumber (Ena, for example) or Tayzzyronth which was imprisoned. Trailblaze is a special case even though Akivili is regarded as missing but the influence isn't affected.
I would say that the Aeons are lesser abstractions compared to the Aeonhood which is what allows them to become Aeons in the first place, but this is still AE1 as Aeons are Paths are 1:1 of each other. Cause even the context of Sunday being the Second Ena is just Sunday merging with Ena instead of him actually becoming a new Aeon even though he failed to make a new Path later on
I'd say the avatars and their true form being differentiated is consistent, and like you said earlier if PCoA is a different case than this then at best, it only applies to Terminus which is ironic given Finality has to be the strongest Aeon (HI3 propaganda) but that's it I guess I mean I don't wanna derail more and I have to fix the scans for the entire verse
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“Constrained by their limited cognition, intelligent lifeforms can only slightly perceive the Paths that Aeons tread upon, and rely on mere concepts and theories to vaguely comprehend the vastness of their powers. Eventually, through spoken legends, these Aeons became the embodiments of abstract concepts.”
Pretty sure CN even uses the same words as a pathstrider. Source.
Ena was assimilated into Xipe. Order should’ve become Harmony entirely but the Path of Order still exists. Tayzzyronth was separated from the Path of Propagation as well. Akivili fell into finality or became Finality itself, etc.
No, i agree that the Paths themselves are conceptual. But my point is that the Aeons aren’t, and they should be differentiated.
Terminus is the one who turned into the pack of black cats, which means they became a pack of physical beings, Dahlia says that because of this, by extension, every ounce of their power went into these cats.
Ena did not fall into slumber. That was metaphorical for them essentially facing death. Ena was assimilated into Xipe, that is Ena’s second face (people theorise that Akivili/Idrila could be Xipe’s third face).
Furthermore, Ena brushed past Terminus during the swarm disaster, which means that their Finality was nearing.
The entire point of 3.8 was that Gopher wood though Tayzzy was the third face, but was inevitably wrong.
Tayzzy was imprisoned, after their path was separated from them on a conceptual level. This already shows that Aeons and the Paths are independent of each other.
A new path would’ve emerged if he actually achieved dimensional transcendence. He’s referred to as Ena because the way he received the status of an Aeon was through recreating the Swarm Disaster in the Dreamscape. He is in fact, referred to as a newborn god:Cause even the context of Sunday being the Second Ena is just Sunday merging with Ena instead of him actually becoming a new Aeon even though he failed to make a new Path later on
“Using the Harmonious Choir as a foundation, the power of Order and Harmony intertwine to form the shell of an egg, within which the newborn god slumbers. The metaphysical embryo mumbles the olden dreams of childhood as the fetal movement of Paths throbs in the long night, futilely resisting the rising dawn.”
It’s just that people yearned for the Order to protect them, inevitably fueling Sunday’s power of Order and Harmony, and they intertwined to create a new path. He would’ve become the aeon of Conquest or Domination, which is a more selfish form of trailblaze. He and Ena weren’t just “merging”.
Right, but there’s also plenty of other examples supporting my point. It isn’t only limited to Terminus. It’s for all aeons bar HooH.
Terminus has already verbatim statements putting them above other paths, like Destruction, Hunt, Nihility, etc etc.
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There are 3 things I have a problem though;
1. But at the same time, the definition of a Pathstrider is that they walked on the Path that was already created by an Aeon — Aeons being Pathstriders themselves would require all of them to function the same as Remembrance where it's possible for Fuli to be a Pathstrider and an Aeon at the same time due to its paradoxical nature where Future Fuli would be the Aeon and Present Fuli would be a Pathstrider (or special Emanators like Cyrene instead that was the closest to becoming Fuli).
We know Paths have their respective functions, so no this doesn't work based on the translations alone especially if it doesn't verbatim state Pathstriders directly but rather indirectly for some reason who knows why.
2. As much as it being metaphorical and whatnot, unless there's actual confirmation that they confirmed an Aeon is able to die, I don't think this is possible to rule out considering even after 3 years and so, this has to be the most vague thing about the Aeons.
3. I don't think Paths superiority matter the most, it's just that Finality functions as the end of civilizations in HI3 and the end of the universe in HSR as confirmed with the Theory of the 4 Apocalypses where one of the Paths could become Finality (i.e how the universe ends). I'd like to debate why this wouldn't be the antifeat for Terminus being abstract (and that Paths are still abstractions themselves anyway as you differentiated it) but yeah I'm in a predicament rn where I'm functionally very busy for some reason around the calendar unironically but I think that's it for now.
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I don’t think it’s referring to people walking on the path created by an Aeon. The context was that an individual’s range of movement exists inside a larger design.
But even if we say that that’s what the statement is referring to, worth noting that a Path is born as an Aeon ascends. Those two factors are interdependent, but that doesn’t require the Aeon to be the path itself. Take the Speed force and Barry Allen for instance. It doesn’t contradict what i said. You simply have to interpret it in a way that makes sense.
No, it just requires the Paths to be atemporal and aspatial, which is true, because the Paths are abstracts. Because of this, Aeons can be pathstriders despite their ascension triggering the birth of a path. This isn’t a weird casuality error. The moment a path is born, it becomes eternal throughout time, so it wouldn’t be bound by Time. For example, even though Lan was not born in the Swarm Disaster, traces of the path of Hunt still existed back then.
The weird casuality with Fuli is that they simply have a husk throughout time, i.e, the Aeon’s body is spread across time to anchor events when they ascend.
This is as verbatim as it gets without actually calling them pathstriders. They are treading on their path, which by definition makes them pathstriders.
The entire plot of HSR is that an Aeon can die. That’s how we’re gonna stop Nanook, especially with Elio’s third method of killing an Aeon that is yet to be revealed. But even then, Ena is in fact, dead. They were assimilated and their path is masterless. The same way, Trailblaze is also called a masterless path, and so is the Propagation.
Now, because of Qlipoth hammering Tayzzy, their path was removed out of them:
“Simulated Universe: At that moment, an odd feeling strikes you, and you perceive a subtle sensation! The Propagation is being diluted... THEIR death is similar to a blot of light-colored ink that spreads out in the ocean. The Preservation is stripping the Aeon of THEIR broken shell, body, and heart... Next, the second concept is extracted... The Aeon is being further diluted, and the collective power is escaping from the disintegration. More forces, whether violent or calm, are disintegrating THEM...”
Swarm Diaster - Preservation II.
They and their path were separated, and that is their current state in the Amber prison right now.
What i’m saying is that Finality is said to be a path which other paths are bound by, which wouldn’t really make sense if the Aeon of that Path is physical and the others are somehow not. It’s not just applicable to Terminus.
Anyway, i disagree with the idea that the Aeons are conceptual, but it doesn’t really matter to the topic at hand, because we can easily refute the idea that the Aeons are treated as representatives in the same way that Shades are, so it shouldn’t matter largely.
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Well, it'd be the case where instead Aeons have some form of CM (with them being able to create said Paths and manipulate said Paths albeit I don't know what the alteration/destruction here would be) but functionally they would be AE (Type 2) with like atleast CM2 at the very least cause they created it unlike the Shades which are just representatives (given Space, Time, Life and Death already existed before the Shades) and this is the case where things such as Destruction, Erudition, Remembrance, etc didn't exist yet before their own Aeons created it
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