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The Most Racist Tier 0 is a BUM
- Thread starter SuperNova55555
- Start date
- Status
- 9,627
- 6,485
So, what this ever applied?
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So.
Ultimate Gods:
At least High Hyperverse level, possibly Outerverse level (The Ultimate Gods are the residents of the Ultimate Abyss, the fundamental level of reality described as the culminating point of an infinitely ascending hierarchy of higher dimensions, in which a lower-dimensional space is an infinitesimal part of a higher-dimensional one, but also as being "the space outside dimensions," "where all dimensions dissolve in the absolute," "chaos, without form or place, past the bright clusters of dimensioned space," as well as "extending beyond all spheres of matter and force, space and time" and "beyond angled space," outstripping mathematics as much as it does fancy)
Yog-Sothoth:
At least High Hyperverse level, possibly Outerverse level (Yog-Sothoth is "chief among the archetypes" and exists as the totality of the Ultimate Abyss itself, its earthly name being used interchangeably as a moniker for the location itself, and the entity being described as "All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self," "aligned to the ultimate animating essence of existence's whole unbounded sweep" [i.e. the Ultimate Void], with even Randolph Carter's self from beyond the Ultimate Void, itself an unification of all Carters in existence into a singular entity of the nature of the Void itself, being described as an "infinitesimal part" of the Supreme Archetype which Yog-Sothoth is)
Ancients Ones / 'Umr at-Tawil:
High Hyperverse level (Exist as manifestations of Yog-Sothoth itself residing past the First Gate and in the Outer Extension of the Earth, which is described in an out-of-universe letter detailing the concepts of Through the Gates of the Silver Key as "the extension of the earth only in all dimensions," of which there is an infinite number, and in the story itself as being the "many-dimensioned original" of which the 3-dimensional earth is merely an infinitesimal phase)
Azathoth:
Stays the same, though everything in his current AP justification starting from "Azathoth embodies..." can be removed.
Nyarlathotep:
Stays the same (For now, anyway. I want to same some adjustments later, which are material for another CRT), though everything in the current AP justification of his true form before "Should be immensely above..." should be removed."
As for the matter of references, simple enough:
"the fundamental level of reality described as the culminating point of an infinitely ascending hierarchy of higher dimensions, in which a lower-dimensional space is an infinitesimal part of a higher-dimensional one," = Through the Gates of the Silver Key
"the space outside dimensions," "where all dimensions dissolve in the absolute," = Through the Gates of the Silver Key
"chaos, without form or place, past the bright clusters of dimensioned space," = Fungi from Yuggoth
"extending beyond all spheres of matter and force, space and time" = Dunwich Horror
"beyond angled space" = The Whisperer in Darkness
"its earthly name being used interchangeably as a moniker for the location itself," = Dunwich Horror. The rest of the justification is all Through the Gates.
Ancient Ones is all Through the Gates, with the exception of the letter. Azathoth and Nyarlathotep already have references that don't need to be changed any more than their AP justifications do.
Ultimate Gods:
At least High Hyperverse level, possibly Outerverse level (The Ultimate Gods are the residents of the Ultimate Abyss, the fundamental level of reality described as the culminating point of an infinitely ascending hierarchy of higher dimensions, in which a lower-dimensional space is an infinitesimal part of a higher-dimensional one, but also as being "the space outside dimensions," "where all dimensions dissolve in the absolute," "chaos, without form or place, past the bright clusters of dimensioned space," as well as "extending beyond all spheres of matter and force, space and time" and "beyond angled space," outstripping mathematics as much as it does fancy)
Yog-Sothoth:
At least High Hyperverse level, possibly Outerverse level (Yog-Sothoth is "chief among the archetypes" and exists as the totality of the Ultimate Abyss itself, its earthly name being used interchangeably as a moniker for the location itself, and the entity being described as "All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self," "aligned to the ultimate animating essence of existence's whole unbounded sweep" [i.e. the Ultimate Void], with even Randolph Carter's self from beyond the Ultimate Void, itself an unification of all Carters in existence into a singular entity of the nature of the Void itself, being described as an "infinitesimal part" of the Supreme Archetype which Yog-Sothoth is)
Ancients Ones / 'Umr at-Tawil:
High Hyperverse level (Exist as manifestations of Yog-Sothoth itself residing past the First Gate and in the Outer Extension of the Earth, which is described in an out-of-universe letter detailing the concepts of Through the Gates of the Silver Key as "the extension of the earth only in all dimensions," of which there is an infinite number, and in the story itself as being the "many-dimensioned original" of which the 3-dimensional earth is merely an infinitesimal phase)
Azathoth:
Stays the same, though everything in his current AP justification starting from "Azathoth embodies..." can be removed.
Nyarlathotep:
Stays the same (For now, anyway. I want to same some adjustments later, which are material for another CRT), though everything in the current AP justification of his true form before "Should be immensely above..." should be removed."
Btw, to reply to this comment: Note that I'm more or less indifferent as to whether we rate them at "possibly 1-A" or "likely 1-A." I mean, objectively speaking, the amount of times where the Void is characterized as 1-A outnumbers the ones where it doesn't seem to be (Which, if we want to take on the entire verse as one whole, is really only one: TtGotSK, which even then has several statements that lean towards the 1-A reading of the Void, again when we take it as part of a whole and not in a vacuum. It's an interesting case where the low-end is the one inferred through the wider context and the high-end is the plain reading of the text, usually you have the other way around), so I'd say the preponderance of evidence is more favorable towards that side than not. But as said, I don't care much, and no one ever pays attention to "possibly" vs "likely" anyway, so.
As for the matter of references, simple enough:
"the fundamental level of reality described as the culminating point of an infinitely ascending hierarchy of higher dimensions, in which a lower-dimensional space is an infinitesimal part of a higher-dimensional one," = Through the Gates of the Silver Key
"the space outside dimensions," "where all dimensions dissolve in the absolute," = Through the Gates of the Silver Key
"chaos, without form or place, past the bright clusters of dimensioned space," = Fungi from Yuggoth
"extending beyond all spheres of matter and force, space and time" = Dunwich Horror
"beyond angled space" = The Whisperer in Darkness
"its earthly name being used interchangeably as a moniker for the location itself," = Dunwich Horror. The rest of the justification is all Through the Gates.
Ancient Ones is all Through the Gates, with the exception of the letter. Azathoth and Nyarlathotep already have references that don't need to be changed any more than their AP justifications do.
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only the OP can apply this no?
Mbpoops
He/Him- 8,355
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Unless someone is requested by the op i believe
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anyone can apply a CRT as long as it is accepted
Mbpoops
He/Him- 8,355
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my bad lols
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I’ll apply the old ones tmr if supports can’t
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@Ultima_Reality
What do you mean with "stays the same". Shouldn't their tiers be heavily adjusted downwards?
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I mean the justification stays the same, since all it describes is them scaling to other characters, for both of them.@Ultima_Reality
What do you mean with "stays the same". Shouldn't their tiers be heavily adjusted downwards?
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Well, it seems preferable in this case at least, in order to avoid a potentially sloppy contradictory mess.
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I absolutely agree that Yog-Sothoth does not fit within a Tier 0 definition. That is not even up for debate, and treating it that way is a categorical mistake.
Regarding the Eternalist perspective, I think it is partially coherent, but it still lacks deeper approaches. The infinitesimal discussions surrounding Yog strike me as somewhat simplistic and not really pushing beyond basic notions of complexity, obviously not in a compositional sense. You could frame it within a panentheistic scope, but it is clearly a heavily symbolic device used by the author.
As for the rest, the reduction to Low 1-A felt forced to me, though I completely understood your reasoning.
I watched the entire debate, and you do seem to have the stronger point overall, but I think there is still room for a more thorough analysis.
In any case, it was a good thread.
Regarding the Eternalist perspective, I think it is partially coherent, but it still lacks deeper approaches. The infinitesimal discussions surrounding Yog strike me as somewhat simplistic and not really pushing beyond basic notions of complexity, obviously not in a compositional sense. You could frame it within a panentheistic scope, but it is clearly a heavily symbolic device used by the author.
As for the rest, the reduction to Low 1-A felt forced to me, though I completely understood your reasoning.
I watched the entire debate, and you do seem to have the stronger point overall, but I think there is still room for a more thorough analysis.
In any case, it was a good thread.
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I'm sorry I don't speak Central America. Please translate that to English.
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I’m sorry hahaha, the automatic translator was to blame for that hahaha.
Mythic381
He/Him- 2,433
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"I'm sorry I don't speak Colonizer. Please translate that to..."
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From what I can see, Ultima didn't mention Nodens or Shub-Niggurath. I'm also not sure if it provided links to the texts. However, the text in Ultimate Gids for Shub-Niggurath seems applicable. On the other hand, Nodens' profile looks really bad, I don't know what to say to him.I do not know. Has Ultima provided sufficient information here to revise all of our higher-tiered Cthulhu Mythos characters?
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- Thread starter
- #425
The other characters should just be ppl who chainscale to the already-addressed characters like Yog and the like. So there’s no point in changing much for them aside from their ratingDoes Ultima need to write up further instructions here, or can the accepted revisions be applied now?
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I don't think he'll get a scale directly from Nyarlathotep, but he might get one from Hunting Horror. (Also, I don't know what can be done about the issue of skills.)Wasn't Nodens a hunter of entities such as Nyarlatoteph? If so, can't he get the same statistics?
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Okay. Please write an unformatted text list of all exactly worded titles for all the Cthulhu Mythos pages that I need to unlock, so I can use a mass-unlocking program to handle it.
After that you can begin to revise the relevant pages, but you obviously need to do so carefully, with proper formatting and justifications.
Also, do we have any Cthulhu Mythos cosmology and tiering explanation pages that need to be revised?
- 5,464
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- Thread starter
- #428
I can do the list with no issues but shouldn’t the revisions be handled by a trusted supporter still? Cuz my relation to the verse in general doesn’t go much past this CRT.Okay. Please write an unformatted text list of all exactly worded titles for all the Cthulhu Mythos pages that I need to unlock, so I can use a mass-unlocking program to handle it.
After that you can begin to revise the relevant pages, but you obviously need to do so carefully, with proper formatting and justifications.
Also, do we have any Cthulhu Mythos cosmology and tiering explanation pages that need to be revised?
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Well, it is easier said than done to find trusted supporters who are willing to apply an accepted downgrade, but I will try.
@Udlmaster @Matthew_Schroeder @The_King_of_Prudence @Planck69 @Elizhaa @Emirp sumitpo @IdiosyncraticLawyer
Are any of you willing to properly handle this please?
- 5,464
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- Thread starter
- #430
I can obviously do it myself too though if nobody minds
Udlmaster
Any/All- 7,499
- 3,072
I don't mind handling it if you want me toWell, it is easier said than done to find trusted supporters who are willing to apply an accepted downgrade, but I will try.
@Udlmaster @Matthew_Schroeder @The_King_of_Prudence @Planck69 @Elizhaa @Emirp sumitpo @IdiosyncraticLawyer
Are any of you willing to properly handle this please?
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- 6,540
- Thread starter
- #434
The affected profiles should be:
Yog-Sothoth (Cthulhu Mythos)
Azathoth (Cthulhu Mythos)
Nyarlathotep (Cthulhu Mythos)
Shub-Niggurath
The Ultimate Gods
Nodens
Hypnos (Cthulhu Mythos)
Yog-Sothoth (Cthulhu Mythos)
Azathoth (Cthulhu Mythos)
Nyarlathotep (Cthulhu Mythos)
Shub-Niggurath
The Ultimate Gods
Nodens
Hypnos (Cthulhu Mythos)
- 177,289
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I have unlocked those pages for you, but please check here to see if there are others that you have overlooked:
I will also unlock the following page for you to edit.
vsbattles.fandom.com
And the main verse page likely also needs to be updated.
I will also unlock the following page for you to edit.
Cthulhu Mythos Cosmology
This explanation page for the Cthulhu Mythos analyzes and ranks its cosmology according to this wiki's Tiering System. The canon of Howard Philips Lovecraft and the Lovecraft Circle is one of the earliest examples of a fictional setting with a particularly intricate and powerful cosmology. A...
vsbattles.fandom.com
And the main verse page likely also needs to be updated.
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- Thread starter
- #438
Can this be given the “Outdated” tag in the meantime until I’m capable of revising some new explanations? Of course, if a supporter also is willing to undertake the job, they can do it as well.
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