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The Most Racist Tier 0 is a BUM

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But really, this is arrogance speaking, not my problem; that's your problem to deal with it. You tried to say something about that explanation being wrong, realised you didn't understand it, and now you're agreeing with me, then just adding the words "nonsense" at the end to shield your ego. That's really your problem, not mine.
What? I am refering to you trying to say it doen't matter because it was accidental, the reason doesn't matter, they still have quantity and quality. It was a blatant misunderstanding of how the tiering works and the relation between quality and quantity.
 
My friend, noone cares about off-site debates there. If you disagree you can simply make new CRT of rebunk
My bad dude, but I didn't say they had to do it, just that if they wanted to continue the debate we should probably take it off site since i don't wanna derail the thread, looking back, I came off as some weird discord debater

Also, i probably will make a CRT for 1-A+/High 1-A regardless on if the gates are dimensional but i've got a question on how long i've got to wait before posting CRT after a big revision like this?
As for the other guy, nobody is adding you on Discord to enter a call with you over tentacles; the fact that you had to specify vc too, just gives off Discord debater vibes.
I don't see why you didn't directly reply me, that gives me the impression that you didn't want me being pinged ngl, but again, it was just suggestion since i don't wanna derail the thread but still want to discuss it, don't frame our situation like that
You came in aggressively
You know what i find funny about this? the fact you where painting yourself to Antvasima as some 'neutral 3rd party who was just correcting me for spreading misinformation' yet you have double standards like this, the other party was also aggressive, don't be hypocritical
was caught lying about what you argued
I wasn't lying, you just like to nitpick, (like A LOT tbh) at irreverent throw away stuff and treat it as if you've found some massive fault in my reasoning

What i will say is that i was mistaken on a few things such as all existence reality converging into oneness entailing the absence of parts..but i dropped that and provided further arguments that prove it is in this case, saying that's "lying" would be like if i said you where lying for mixing up Sunni understanding of Tawheed with Unity without potency when it's the complete opposite of that
please abstain from responding to me; I'd like to keep my peace to myself
So let me get this straight; you've made several bold accusation about me to try to tarnish my look and except me to not defend myself? Yaaaah...I think I'll hard pass on that
Not that it matters in any case, I secondarily won't respond to that argument because it is trivial and completely irrelevant to my talking points.
You're telling me my reply is the irrelevant one when you're whole premise in your replies is just a big nothingburger?

You posits that i'm still equating oneness with divine simplicity while i already dropped that stance and elaborated with more proof that the oneness in question lacks parts and differentiation, you seemingly continue to ignore that

You posits that i was using the Archetypes ineffability as an excuse to supposed multiplicity while i never did this, the argument was that multiplicity is a phenomenological illusion of the limited mind, ineffability is just supporting evidence to this, you seemingly continue to ignore that

And that's just the stuff in the reply that actually tries to engage with the argument, the rest of it is just irrelevant nitpicking like you yapping about Dharmakaya not being Tier 0 for 2 or 3 paragraphs, that's cool and thanks for informing me, but that still doesn't actually address my point that a character doesn't need to abide by Pure Act to reach Tier 0

So why don't I word this better for you:
Not that it matters in any case, I secondarily won't respond to that argument because I was called out for Straw manning and excessively nitpicking without ever actually engaging with it's substance
Even previously you yourself to cited a paper on monism you yourself never read about (assuming you just got the expressed sentiment from copilot AI and called it a day)
I never claimed to have read the acritical, i specifically clarified that i got from Wikipedia
just to continue your chain of arguing in sheer arrogance
Enlighten me
If this is you showing your true colours and your obsession with trying to "dominate" in discussions
tf are you even typing atp and who are you quoting💀
even going so far as to argue in bad faith, rather than work towards a reasonable consensus.
I'm the one arguing in bad faith and not OP who deadass said the use of the word "The" inherently means that Abyss is the only structure outside dismissions even though thats actively contradicted in the same text calling other places unidimensioned?

Also, literally one of the first thins OP did was take passages that have no relation to the upper echelon of the Verse and used it as supporting evidence to downgrade it, if you ask me, thats whats bad faith here
It just repeats what we've heard throughout the thread rather than directly engaging with the contradictions, even glossing over them to avoid critical analysis of the actual scans, and just going in circles.
I literally engaged with all the supposed contradictions, you just seem to ignore that
 
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It’s just I’ve never seen anyone actually use it before, black or not.
It's used mostly the same way one would say "Bro" and used pretty frequently. at least my friend group
yea its not allowed
Correct. Fandom even used to straight permaban anyone who cited it, even if it was quoting someone else.

I will just edit it out. @Okstrike don't do it again.
My bad twin, i understand
 
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What? I am refering to you trying to say it doen't matter because it was accidental, the reason doesn't matter, they still have quantity and quality. It was a blatant misunderstanding of how the tiering works and the relation between quality and quantity.
💀

Having quantity accidentally means you don't actually possess quantity ontologically.... It means you can apply quantity mind dependently only to the being.... Having "many aspects". Because the human mind can't think unity as "one thing" discursively, it doesn't mean it "has quantity". It means you can apply quantity as a way to think about aspects; similarly to 1-A, you can think of quantity as a way of thinking about its qualitative distinction.

This is different from having quantity ontologically... Beings at Low 1-A and below don't have quantity accidental... It is part of their being. You can say "This being actually has magnitude that is extended spatially, 200 lbs weight and 6'5 height"; that is what it means philosophically for a being for quantity, and that's how philosophically abstract entities are separable from physical entities. I was literally in a gc with Ultima and my mentor when they were discussing this lol, Ultima specifically distinguishes between being quantity accidentally and actually being composed of quantity structurally lol. Even Plotinus does, and the Divine Mind is like Tier 0; this is a skill issue.

Nobody is tryna derail arguing about this, when you don't even know what I'm talking about. Just go make a Q&A thread and ask if you can have a "fat" 1-A; oh, and by that I mean magnitude that is symmetrical to magnitude at Low 1-A and below. I explained the difference, and already explained how Lovecraft doesn't use quantity accidentally. Like, just go read or something, you're derailing the thread:

The first practical effect of this fact is that the power of a 1-A character cannot be dispersed so much that it reaches into a lower tier. Since there is no conceivable extension of any lower tier that can yield equality to a 1-A structure, neither can there be any subdivision (Even an infinite subdivision) of 1-A that reduces down into such tiers. Unless, of course, this division is somehow non-quantitative in nature (i.e. The results of the division are not actually numerical "chunks" of the character's power); however, this should be made reasonably clear by statements or through background context.
Literally, the argument I gave against Lovecraft, which is part of the standards. And I didn't even need to read the standards to understand that part because it's common sense. I gave you examples with Leibniz's monads and how they don't have quantity metaphysically but have it accidentally (this means they don't have it in actuality)

Good lawd, can the staff get pinged or something? If this keeps up, the thread is gonna be 15 pages because some people are so excited to talk without having a comprehensive understanding of what they are talking about. Like you think it would be obvious when I give an example with a Tier 0 having different/many aspects, yet still being divinely simple just to get the point of having quantity accidentally.

Now you're next to be ignored by me. Summaries were provided. I will not be responding to anything anymore. Stop derailing the thread and go argue what is opposed to standards somewhere else.
 
This argument is going nowhere… if both sides wouldnt mind posting summaries that would help ultima
 
Thank you very much to Qawsedf and Ultima for helping out.

And yes, the n-word slur is extremely forbidden here. 🙏
 
What tiering does Udlmaster support here then? 🙏
 
Based on what I think the scaling actually is? Probably just 1-A.

Based on what I'm willing to support for the thread? Low 1-A
Thank you for your reply. I would not mind Low 1-A, but didn't others here suggest High 1-B?

What is the reasoning for each option in summary? 🙏
 
I already linked the relevant parts up above; that’d be the summary prob.
Okay. Thank you for helping out. I think that High 1-B seems sensible based on the last linked post above, but I am not the best person to ask. 🙏
 
Having quantity accidentally means you don't actually possess quantity ontologically.... It means you can apply quantity mind dependently only to the being.... Having "many aspects". Because the human mind can't think unity as "one thing" discursively, it doesn't mean it "has quantity". It means you can apply quantity as a way to think about aspects; similarly to 1-A, you can think of quantity as a way of thinking about its qualitative distinction.

This is different from having quantity ontologically... Beings at Low 1-A and below don't have quantity accidental... It is part of their being. You can say "This being actually has magnitude that is extended spatially, 200 lbs weight and 6'5 height"; that is what it means philosophically for a being for quantity, and that's how philosophically abstract entities are separable from physical entities. I was literally in a gc with Ultima and my mentor when they were discussing this lol, Ultima specifically distinguishes between being quantity accidentally and actually being composed of quantity structurally lol. Even Plotinus does, and the Divine Mind is like Tier 0; this is a skill issue.

Nobody is tryna derail arguing about this, when you don't even know what I'm talking about. Just go make a Q&A thread and ask if you can have a "fat" 1-A; oh, and by that I mean magnitude that is symmetrical to magnitude at Low 1-A and below. I explained the difference, and already explained how Lovecraft doesn't use quantity accidentally. Like, just go read or something, you're derailing the thread:
1-A isn't inherently so different from well...Our reality that the dichotomy between quantity and quality has an stroke, and gets put in extensive care, unless stated, implied or atleast makes sense to assume. Also what? The low 1-A example is just...Well most of the authors don't think of that (which also applies to most lore based series funnily enough), it is kinda harsh to go "well they have every single requirement to be Low 1-A, but they are 7 foot tall so nah". And that is also like saying that pain doesn't exist, and it is just a electro biological reaction
 
1-A isn't inherently so different from well...Our reality that the dichotomy between quantity and quality has an stroke, and gets put in extensive care, unless stated, implied or atleast makes sense to assume. Also what? The low 1-A example is just...Well most of the authors don't think of that (which also applies to most lore based series funnily enough), it is kinda harsh to go "well they have every single requirement to be Low 1-A, but they are 7 foot tall so nah". And that is also like saying that pain doesn't exist, and it is just a electro biological reaction
You're right, actually. Silly Shin. He should totally ignore glaring contradictions, to pamper the verse to 1-A.
 
You're right, actually. Silly Shin. He should totally ignore glaring contradictions, to pamper the verse to 1-A.
The glaring contradictions never existed in the first place though? There's no contradictions when we all know the Gate is entirely metaphysical in nature, heck even for regular humans to peer into the Gate drives them to madness since they can't handle the "ultimate reality". I legit don't understand how this isn't 1-A when again, this is the same verse who invented the term "Outerversal" and limiting it to infinite-dimensional is actually the funniest thing I've seen all day. 100% you don't read the scans.
 
The glaring contradictions never existed in the first place though? There's no contradictions when we all know the Gate is entirely metaphysical in nature, heck even for regular humans to peer into the Gate drives them to madness since they can't handle the "ultimate reality". I legit don't understand how this isn't 1-A when again, this is the same verse who invented the term "Outerversal" and limiting it to infinite-dimensional is actually the funniest thing I've seen all day. 100% you don't read the scans.
Can you point out what part of “metaphysical” and “ultimate reality” have anything to do with the tier
 
Can you point out what part of “metaphysical” and “ultimate reality” have anything to do with the tier
Clearly nowhere was this debunked in the OP.
 
Im not too knowledge able about outerversal stuff except low 1-A but it would be really funny if the verse that invented outerversal got downgraded below outer
 
Clearly nowhere was this debunked in the OP.
Hop off the thread and wait for Ultima.
 
Yea ngl ima have to agree with mgq here we been waitinf on ultima’s opinion for a while best not clog up the thread again save your arguments for later or make a new crt about it when this is over
 
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