Removing WOG from Ben 10

[Sonoftanavast9]

okay then I would like to have an opinion of the classic Ben 10 fans here.
The reason why it was added is because there is another character in Ben 10 classic show and he is able to make as many clones as he want.

I'm also a classic Ben 10 Fan with knowledge of the setting

If Ditto could realistically make infinite clones it would change the direction of numerous episodes and frankly trivialize a bunch of shit Ben had to deal with. (Could have really used that infinite cloning in the Doctor Animo Episode he was introduced or when Khyber was hunting him that one time and he got Ditto)

There's a difference between "A Lot", "Enough to create a black hole" and "Literal Infinity"

so I guess that character will also be limited to the maximum amount of canoes he has shown on the screen of our television.

Yes that's how literally every other verse, even those without explicit statements on clone limits treat this.

Literally this is just standard.


Putting infinite duplication on Dittos profile is atrocious to anyone who watches Ben Ten

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Lol. Ninjago nearly got nuked because of this

I was glad , cause it's weird to ask power scaling questions

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

again nothing based on power scaling but i'm not sure if this is supported with guidebooks cause i'm pretty sure we don't have any statement about Highbreeds being stronger than Vilgax in physical strength

Such a statement exists, but it probably proves Highbreed > Classic Vilgax. There doesn't seem to be anything to show that it includes AF Vilgax.

Besides, we have plenty of Swampfire > Cannonbolt > Top 10 alien statements/feats. So this is possible even without these WoG statements.

 

[DemonicDude]

Yes that's how literally every other verse, even those without explicit statements on clone limits treat this.

see, fine agreed.

As far as the reboot verse goes you can point thess out and I will fix whenever you will ask.

As for the classic continuity those profiles had that for several years ago, so that is why it was originally my inspiration when I created this profiles in 2020.

so in this case both Ditto and Slapback profile would mention, as many as they have a specifically shown on.
Slapback already is written, Ditto needs to have those mentioned and the word "infinite" shall be removed.

 

[Chariot190]

I can only speak for evaluations under my supervision, if someone else accepted that or created the profile with that WOG intact, i can't do anything about it. Evaluations needs to be done on case by case basis regarding WOG and those who accepting it needs to be careful regarding what they are accepting. We have rules regarding QOG for every verse for a reason.

It doesn't matter. You're using what you personally eval'd as if it effects the thread. It doesn't.
This (and more) has been accepted, it's on profile, it's a problem. Nobody is saying it's your fault or you caused it.
Whether you are involved doesn't change that. But it isn't an excuse because you most certainly won't be involved in every thread in the future for the same reason you weren't in the past.
And if it's a major issue, which it is, a rule very much would stop the practice that shouldn't be used anyway skipping the hassle entirely.

You're right, you can't speak for evaluations outside your supervisions, and yet that's this entire thread if what you say is true and you weren't involved with any of it.

And I'm aware we have WoG rules for various verses, this is one such case. A rule here is only beneficial given precedence.

 

[Reiner04]

I was glad , cause it's weird to ask power scaling questions

Wait till you see thousands of peoples off-site asking powerscaling questions.

Such a statement exists, but it probably proves Highbreed > Classic Vilgax. There doesn't seem to be anything to show that it includes AF Vilgax.

Besides, we have plenty of Swampfire > Cannonbolt > Top 10 alien statements/feats. So this is possible even without these WoG statements.

Yeah but the profile uses WOG. Evident L

It doesn't matter. You're using what you personally eval'd as if it effects the thread. It doesn't.
This (and more) has been accepted, it's on profile, it's a problem. Nobody is saying it's your fault or you caused it.
Whether you are involved doesn't change that. But it isn't an excuse because you most certainly won't be involved in every thread in the future for the same reason you weren't in the past.
And if it's a major issue, which it is, a rule very much would stop the practice that shouldn't be used anyway skipping the hassle entirely.

You're right, you can't speak for evaluations outside your supervisions, and yet that's this entire thread if what you say is true and you weren't involved with any of it.

And I'm aware we have WoG rules for various verses, this is one such case. A rule here is only beneficial given precedence.

Bro i js said i can't control other staffs. They accept what tney think and they should only accept things based off our rules and if they happen to misjudge things a crt to overturn or clean up the profile always be created. Or user can be reported for using powerscaling related QnAs. Its that simple.

 

[Lort15]

I'm also a classic Ben 10 Fan with knowledge of the setting

If Ditto could realistically make infinite clones it would change the direction of numerous episodes and frankly trivialize a bunch of shit Ben had to deal with. (Could have really used that infinite cloning in the Doctor Animo Episode he was introduced or when Khyber was hunting him that one time and he got Ditto)

he actually has limitless clone capability

 

[BoastJr]

Snip

I am not a Mod nor do I speak for anyone here but I wanted to say that its fine man

We all make mistakes and No one is blaming you for them. Its better to focus on fixing the profiles and making an accurate representation of Ben 10 atleast to whats acceptable on this site

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Yeah but the profile uses WOG. Evident L

Yes, the description can be removed from Highbreed's profile. It wasn't really necessary anyway...

 

[Reiner04]

I am not a Mod nor do I speak for anyone here but I wanted to say that its fine man

We all make mistakes and No one is blaming you for them. Its better to focus on fixing the profiles and making an accurate representation of Ben 10 atleast to whats acceptable on this site

Yup. Rather than banning entirety of WOG for what appears to be a misjudge or may i say ignorance is rather a too big of a leap. As stated by many most of the stuff can be justified and were justified using show statements in the threads but users js only added WOG on profiles. Things are fixxable and many verses are cleaning up WOG related mess already.

 

[Chariot190]

Bro i js said i can't control other staffs. They accept what tney think and they should only accept things based off our rules and if they happen to misjudge things a crt to overturn or clean up the profile always be created. Or user can be reported for using powerscaling related QnAs. Its that simple.

Which is exactly what this thread is for, aims to stop, and to deal with it at the core.
So now you personally don't have to deal with every single thread, much like you don't need to make the many CRT's you were planning to deal with these egregious WoG examples yourself I'd assume.

I'm sorry lad but the wiki can't revolve around you always just so happening to partake in each thread especially when you yourself just said other staff can easily veto your on this subject. If a rule is required, which atm, it very much is, your personal scaling views aren't a argument as this effects the verse as a whole. Mayhaps in the future the rule can be looked over again once things get sorted out and the verse is in good hands and indexed properly, but at this current time, it's basically a necessity.

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Wait till you see thousands of peoples off-site asking powerscaling questions.

I'm going to smite you if I see this

 

[Reiner04]

Which is exactly what this thread is for, aims to stop, and to deal with it at the core.
So now you personally don't have to deal with every single thread, much like you don't need to make the many CRT's you were planning to deal with these egregious WoG examples yourself I'd assume.

I'm sorry lad but the wiki can't revolve around you always just so happening to partake in each thread especially when you yourself just said other staff can easily veto your on this subject. If a rule is required, which atm, it very much is, your personal scaling views aren't a argument as this effects the verse as a whole. Mayhaps in the future the rule can be looked over again once things get sorted out and the verse is in good hands and indexed properly, but at this current time, it's basically a necessity.

We all makes mistakes man. js some did doesnt mean all staffs in all threads did. Its fine. Agree to Disagree i suppose.

 

[Dalesean027]

Basically at the same thought here as chariot

 

[DemonicDude]

he actually has limitless clone capability

Will that be accepted?
everytime slapback falls he can make more.

 

[Lort15]

Will that be accepted?
everytime slapback falls he can make more.

weren't there a statement he can small to size of an atom also i remember someone making a calculation based on that and actually putting effort to how many clones slapback can tf but i don't reallyyy remember i've seen that in like 2019 or something with this statement alone it wouldn't give him limitless clone capability

 

[Reiner04]

Also @Vietthai96 stated that he only agrees with banning WOG who are asked Leading questions or power related queries, others are fine. Same stance as me, Firestorm and Qawsedf.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I share Qawsedf's thoughts on the matter.

 

[Dalesean027]

Also @Vietthai96 stated that he only agrees with banning WOG who are asked Leading questions or power related queries, others are fine. Same stance as me, Firestorm and Qawsedf.

This is really no difference from the current proposals already heck I even said this a few pages ago so im not sure why we're treating that as a seperate vote to begin with, heck even when ya asked earlier regarding things Lonkitt answered source material should take precedence over WoG but never said that actual valid sources of supplemental content or other statements that they make on their own invalid

I feel like we all know there's a difference between writers and WoG making statements in a void naturally just speaking about the content at their own discretion that are supported by the media they worked and supplements what's already there rather than people spamming their walls with leading questions for powerscaling to try and get a desired tier for something.

I'd like to think its easy to spot the difference between the two but regardless alot the "rebuttals" here reads like is this "we couldn't get away with ONLY using leading questions to get WoG so others shouldn't too" like yeah duh?

Writers statements made on their own without the battleboarding and leading questions just in supplemental material isn't even a target to this CRT so really stop derailing as that stuff isn't even targeted by the OP, besides if its valid supplementary material going by our new canon standards no one will gaf about you using it anyways

 

[Reiner04]

This is really no difference from the current proposals already heck I even said this a few pages ago so im not sure why we're treating that as a seperate vote to begin with, heck even when ya asked earlier regarding things Lonkitt answered source material should take precedence over WoG but never said that actual valid sources of supplemental content or other statements that they make on their own invalid

Current proposal is to remove WOG entirely, we already not allow leading questions. Not all stuff on the profile are answer to leading questions, some are general statement and answer to general questions. We all disagree with using WOG that answers leading questions.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

If Powerscaling statments now can be removed, then i can make CRT to fix it and add now statments from the show. Other can still be use, as it's don't get accept, right?

 

[Reiner04]

If Powerscaling statments now can be removed, then i can make CRT to fix it and add now statments from the show. Other can still be use, as it's don't get accept, right?

OTher than fixing profiles to add relevant scan nothing much is a needed, imo. But lets see what this thread decides first.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

OTher than fixing profiles to add relevant scan nothing much is a needed, imo. But lets see what this thread decides first.

Yh, it just needs to replace it with a statements from the show, Pop-Up Trivia, scripts, and guidebooks.

 

[Nierre]

I share the same thoughts as qaws as well

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

I have scans/statements for these cases; I've been equipped with them since I started in Ben 10 scaling.

 

[Reiner04]

Considering this thread has turned into a 6-6 deadlock with maximum staff participation (not to mention it has already reached 8 pages) would it be a reasonable to propose a compromise that Supporters of the verse, myself included and many have already volunteered, fix the profiles by adding relevant in-show statements that support the WOG currently in use. In cases where the WOG is entirely unnecessary, it shall be removed. We will also remove the few 'leading question' WOGs that slipped into the profiles due to what appears to be an evaluation issue (some mistakes that anyone can make). Finally, we can create a verse-specific note making it explicit that, due to past issues, all future WOG must strictly follow and staffs carefully examine that they follow our general site-wide rules before being accepted.

I am sure that just being extra careful with the WOGs just solves the issue fine rather than going verse specific to discredit them entirely.

@Planck69, @KingTempest, @Emirp sumitpo

What's your opinion on this compromise?

 

[Lonkitt]

Considering this thread has turned into a 6-6 deadlock with maximum staff participation

No it hasn't. Please look at the votes on the OP

 

[Qawsedf234]

We will also remove the few 'leading question' WOGs that slipped into the profiles due to what appears to be an evaluation issue (some mistakes that anyone can make). Finally, we can create a verse-specific note making it explicit that, due to past issues, all future WOG must strictly follow and staffs carefully examine that they follow our general site-wide rules before being accepted.

The following stood out to me as unusable or at least questionable:

• Cosmology is a leading question
• Question 1 is a leading question
• This is saying that an alien rock monster has no DNA, not that magical creatures themselves lack DNA so this is just not a power
• This is a massively leading question using our tiering standards and leads me to believe that any question from G.G. should be automatically banned
• This is either a leading question or just a bad WoG to use since they outright admit they don't remember the scene.
• This is a leading question as they're putting a value that they want confirmed
• The author states he doesn't know the extent of their powers. This statement shouldn't be used
• This is a leading question, but not a major one I guess
• 50/50 on this one
• I'm 50/50 on this statement, and this one is a very straightforward leading question
• This is another straightforward leading question
• I'm 50/50 on these, as they're power scaler bait but also not a leading question. I would still think that we shouldn't use them however
• I would consider this a leading question
• Worded strangely but still ultimately a leading question
• 50/50 on this
• Leading question
• If this isn't a leading question, it's still one with the main purpose being power scaling
• 50/50 on this
• Leading question

 

[AmonInChains]

snip

What's your stand about McDuffie saying that his own quotes aren't canon as shown in the OP?

Btw just letting everyone know that I haven't updated the latest vote count yet, I'll do it in the next few minutes.

 

[Qawsedf234]

What's your stand about McDuffie saying that his own quotes aren't canon as shown in the OP?

We usually treat statements like this as indicating that the writer/artist/whoever has no greater canon control, but they do still give insight into what they were thinking when making the scenes in question

So with OPM for example, the lead artist has stated he has no canon input. We rate his statements as a "possibly" rating, and while we don't say that what he says is canon, we do use his thoughts to explain some potential actions or abilities for a scene if they're expanded on.

So things like McDuffie explaining plot issues would not be considered valid, but statements explaining his thought process on how powers work or why characters did a certain thing can be considered as potential secondary canon.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Considering this thread has turned into a 6-6 deadlock with maximum staff participation (not to mention it has already reached 8 pages) would it be a reasonable to propose a compromise that Supporters of the verse, myself included and many have already volunteered, fix the profiles by adding relevant in-show statements that support the WOG currently in use. In cases where the WOG is entirely unnecessary, it shall be removed. We will also remove the few 'leading question' WOGs that slipped into the profiles due to what appears to be an evaluation issue (some mistakes that anyone can make). Finally, we can create a verse-specific note making it explicit that, due to past issues, all future WOG must strictly follow and staffs carefully examine that they follow our general site-wide rules before being accepted.

I am sure that just being extra careful with the WOGs just solves the issue fine rather than going verse specific to discredit them entirely.

@Planck69, @KingTempest, @Emirp sumitpo

What's your opinion on this compromise?

Wait, isn't it 5 and 6? Viet only agree with powerscaling/leaning questions, who all staffs agree with remove it

 

[GeneralSol16]

For those I know of:

Cosmology is a leading question

• Question 1 is a leading question

It can be replaced with this already accepted scan

• This is saying that an alien rock monster has no DNA, not that magical creatures themselves lack DNA so this is just not a power

Sure.

• This is a massively leading question using our tiering standards.

Why was that there in the first place? We have actual feats from Feedback lol

• This is either a leading question or just a bad WoG to use since they outright admit they don't remember the scene

We have visuals, he's part Ditto

• .
• This is a leading question as they're putting a value that they want confirmed

That value is from the show

And ultimate Kevin has the combined powers of the Ultimatrix

• The author states he doesn't know the extent of their powers.

A member of Clockwork's race has been shown stopping time.

• This is a leading question, but not a major one I guess

It has been shown in the show

• I'm 50/50 on this statement, and this one is a very straightforward leading question

Sure, but in his profile and cosmology we have show and officiel statements that are better than this and follow the same logic.

• I'm 50/50 on these, as they're power scaler bait but also not a leading question. I would still think that we shouldn't use them however

I mean, we've literally see him being immune to his own powers

• I would consider this a leading question

Is even usable? He refers to other Verees.
Just remove it

• Worded strangely but still ultimately a leading question

This is just dupporyive the statements come from the show.

• Leading question

Same as Hestblast's

• If this isn't a leading question, it's still one with the main purpose being power scaling

We don't use that at all

Leading question
Supported by the show and official media
https://youtu.be/ZFerP6sABUI?feature=shared (15:18)

https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/File:Diamondhead%27s_Powers.png

 

[Reiner04]

No it hasn't. Please look at the votes on the OP

OP votes arent updsted. Qawsedf is fine with WOG. Veith as well has made it clear that WOGs are fine unless they are leading questions, Neirre and Oblivion shares same thought as Qaws. Firrstorm as well. And my vote included its 6.

 

[Reiner04]

Why was that there in the first place? We have actual feats from Feedback lol

Feedback: I absorbed 1-B energy that creates infinite universes each having infinite dimensions in show.

Le Vsbw user: Adds WOG about being able to absorb multiversal+ energy.

 

[Hellformer]

Feedback: I absorbed 1-B energy that creates infinite universes each having infinite dimensions in show.

Le Vsbw user: Adds WOG about being able to absorb multiversal+ energy.

I don't think that exists in Feedback's vsbw page. The reason why someone must have asked that is due to terminological inconsistency of Ben 10. "The Universe" can mean multiple things so that's why someone wanted to confirm it (probably).

 

[DemonicDude]

weren't there a statement he can small to size of an atom also i remember someone making a calculation based on that and actually putting effort to how many clones slapback can tf but i don't reallyyy remember i've seen that in like 2019 or something with this statement it wouldn't give him limitless clone apability

His merchandise info says he can make small Armies, this is consistent with this Planet Species explanation video.
timestamp 0:20
unless people have biology issues or something.

 

[BoastJr]

Wdym, We all love our bbg Ben 10

The Mods are just Shy to FRA the upgrade threads

 

[BoastJr]

While I am present, I shall not allow Ben 10 Slander to exist. Absolutely NO Ben 10 Slander at all

Anyone caught Slandering Ben Goat 10 will be punished by Yakub (Agartha) and not be allowed in Agartha anymore

Ben 10 is under Agartha's eternal protection from now on

 

[Reiner04]

@Forthegood
Do not be rude to the opposition or the OP. Threads are created and votes are cast based on what people find convincing. It is obvious that we might not like how a thread goes or turns out; we naturally favor our own views and believe they are correct, but that isn't necessarily always the truth. That is why these threads exist, different people can put forward arguments from their own perspectives, arguments that might not make sense to us or may not even seem valid from our point of view but who knows if they might be the right one and we just can't see from that perspective or like it? Regardless, we still need to respect their opinions and leave the final judgment to the staff, who evaluate which side sounds most logical to them. Everyone believes they are right in their own view, including staff members, that is why multiple staff are required for a CRT to pass. The fact that this thread remains in a deadlock despite 12 staff members participating is clear proof of that.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Qawsedf is fine with WOG.

Yes and no. I'm fine with WoG in a limited capacity. Writers that don't follow the McDuffie rule are usable in some capacity, but those who do follow that rule shouldn't be included as they view their answers as non-canon to the core franchise.

We have visuals, he's part Ditto

The writer doesn't remember the answer and responded with "Doesn't he have all their powers" with a "sure".

Overall I don't think it's super usable. If we do keep it I only see it as a possibly rating.

A member of Clockwork's race has been shown stopping time.

The issue is with the WoG, not them having a potential feat. The WoG is awful in that respective case. This applies to most of your other responses. They can still be valid, but most/none of the WoG meets our standards in those cases.