(ACCEPTED) Sliming all Honkai Scaling (GONE BRUTAL)

[Breakdown]

The one admin who voted here literally said it’s an antifeat.


This wasn’t the part I was asking since I already (obviously) knew this. But I didn’t specify it in my original comment so I won’t hold you up on this.


Which part of this proves IT has 11 uncompacted dimensions?

I have already acknowledged both in my OP and many comments after that I am fine with IT having extra real dimension, and I have gone multiple times on record including @BestMGQScalerEver that you can have both compact and non-compact simultaneously.

But that doesn’t even matter cuz it’s part of the IT. And connecting Bubbles with IT is also like… not an antifeat at all. SoQ remains with compacted dimensions and IT has a higher dimension that encompasses all of them (as it isnt compacted seemingly). This changes nothing about the scaling.

Low 1-C is fine. Viet seemed fine with it as well.

I notice how you didn’t address the scam where Ryusuke says he sees lower dimensions like books… Is it because your argument falls apart when faced with a direct statement like that? I wonder, what could Nova be thinking?

 

[SuperNova55555]

Sorry I got heated lol xD
It's from Durandal Visual Novel. I edited the link back at the reply above

Alr. Can I have a picture of it?

 

[SuperNova55555]

I notice how you didn’t address the scam where Ryusuke says he sees lower dimensions like books… Is it because your argument falls apart when faced with a direct statement like that? I wonder, what could Nova be thinking?

???????????

I have been talking about that one scan for like the past two pages???????

I BROUGHT IT UP IN THE OP.

 

[Weaver261]

Alr. Can I have a picture of it?

What do you mean "a picture"?

 

[SuperNova55555]

What do you mean "a picture"?

Like a scan. You just say it exists. How do I know that’s true. I want the exact scan

 

[Weaver261]

Like a scan. You just say it exists. How do I know that’s true. I want the exact scan

That's the exact scan

Here is visual novel main menu.

 

[SuperNova55555]

That's the exact scan

Here is visual novel main menu.

THIS IS THE ETHER BATHTUB. IT’S SEA OF QUANTA


OH MY FUCKINGGG GODDDDDD. JSHDNRDHBEHEHWJWWKKDXNNXBDBEBEHSHDHHXXBDBDBDHRHEJWJWSJNSNSNSBSBDBDBDDBHD


I’m hoping off for an hour or two, this is genuinely bad for my health

 

[Weaver261]

THIS IS THE ETHER BATHTUB. IT’S SEA OF QUANTA

I think we should show this to English experts. The text literally said "Universe". Ethertub and SoQ were never mentioned as Universe. Universe is imaginary tree. Is this so hard to get? I am not talking about evelen dimensional ethertub. I am talking about 4 infinite dimensions and 7 finite dimensions

 

[SuperNova55555]

I think we should show this to English experts. The text literally said "Universe". Ethertub and SoQ were never mentioned as Universe. Universe is imaginary tree. Is this so hard to get? I am not talking about evelen dimensional ethertub. I am talking about 4 infinite dimensions and 7 finite dimensions

Firstly, 7 finite dimensions is an anti-feat. So your very claims contradict each other. I’m so confused on your point.

Secondly, it juxtaposes it to the Ether Bathtub, the same way Bubble Worlds inherit dimensions. Same logic is being applied here.

And lastly, I am saying (as Robo gave a statement from @Executor_N0 ) that the Imaginary Tree contains a real dimension outside of SoQ’s compacted ones and so it is valid for Low 1-C.

This’ll be my last statement until like… I guess when I feel like responding again. (Prob 10 minutes)

 

[Robo432343]

Firstly, 7 finite dimensions is an anti-feat.

No its not. This 7 finite dimensions thing has been addressed in this thread already even your best friend stopped disagreeing

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

All details are in this Blog Post. Suffice to say, a lot of changes. TL;DR Honkai Cosmology is not 11-D, as the extra dimensions spoken of in-game are string dimensions, not extra large dimensions. Instead, Honkai Cosmology is 6-D at the highest level (the Imaginary Tree). Going down the list...

vsbattles.com

we need a discussion rule atp

 

[Weaver261]

Firstly, 7 finite dimensions is an anti-feat. So your very claims contradict each other. I’m so confused on your point.

Durandal vn was released in 2018 and Alien Space manga was released in 2020 which makes alien space explanation of higher dimensions more valid than older one. Which in this case, qualitative superiority of extra dimensions, something you agreed also. It is referring to extra dimensions since welt specially said gravity works the same way

 

[KingOfDarknessBelow]

I Disagree with the downgrade (follow)

 

[Vietthai96]

I think we should show this to English experts. The text literally said "Universe". Ethertub and SoQ were never mentioned as Universe. Universe is imaginary tree. Is this so hard to get? I am not talking about evelen dimensional ethertub. I am talking about 4 infinite dimensions and 7 finite dimensions

If you want to argue that IT is the universe, then it is only Low 2-C based on Durandal VN

 

[Weaver261]

If you want to argue that IT is the universe, then it is only Low 2-C based on Durandal VN

The whole point of my argument is that Durandal vn statement is old and no longer valid. Are you reading?

 

[Breakdown]

???????????

I have been talking about that one scan for like the past two pages???????

I BROUGHT IT UP IN THE OP.

Much like how you obviously can’t bothered to read Honkai, I can’t be bothered to read your OP. It’s honestly fair.

THIS IS THE ETHER BATHTUB. IT’S SEA OF QUANTA


OH MY FUCKINGGG GODDDDDD. JSHDNRDHBEHEHWJWWKKDXNNXBDBEBEHSHDHHXXBDBDBDHRHEJWJWSJNSNSNSBSBDBDBDDBHD


I’m hoping off for an hour or two, this is genuinely bad for my health

imagine asking for the bathtub, seeing the bathtub, then getting upset when you see it.

 

[SuperNova55555]

No its not. This 7 finite dimensions thing has been addressed in this thread already even your best friend stopped disagreeing

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

All details are in this Blog Post. Suffice to say, a lot of changes. TL;DR Honkai Cosmology is not 11-D, as the extra dimensions spoken of in-game are string dimensions, not extra large dimensions. Instead, Honkai Cosmology is 6-D at the highest level (the Imaginary Tree). Going down the list...

vsbattles.com

we need a discussion rule atp

This is because I’m pretty sure they are assuming that dimensions of SoQ aren’t curled. Which if you are against, please explain. I’m not reading that whole thread.

Durandal vn was released in 2018 and Alien Space manga was released in 2020 which makes alien space explanation of higher dimensions more valid than older one. Which in this case, qualitative superiority of extra dimensions, something you agreed also. It is referring to extra dimensions since welt specially said gravity works the same way

And Welt’s statement does not include the 11 dimensions. So if you want to discredit Durandal VN, you also have to discredit the number of ITs dimensions. Which would still make it only Low 1-C.

Not that, ya know, both can’t be accurate. I’ve already explained how they’re not mutually exclusive.

Much like how you obviously can’t bothered to read Honkai, I can’t be bothered to read your OP. It’s honestly fair.

imagine asking for the bathtub, seeing the bathtub, then getting upset when you see it.

-> Says I was asking for the Bathtub
-> Message before is me clearly asking for Imaginary Tree

Genuinely negative tracking.

 

[Breakdown]

If you want to argue that IT is the universe, then it is only Low 2-C based on Durandal VN

Come on, don’t try this. Everything we know about the structure of the IT puts it above Low 2-C. Genuinely insane to even think it.

 

[Robo432343]

This is because I’m pretty sure they are assuming that dimensions of SoQ aren’t curled.

Wrong. They were already discussing the curled dimension 'problem' and this was specifically addressed here

I have to disagree here as well, as I've mentioned on multiple servers to Sol, the "finitely curled" thing, the basis of the entire crt, is mentioned in regards to our world, never any others. Avenger has even shown this with the original Chinese there

In fact it doesn't make sense to apply it to every dimension possible. The SoQ and Tree are higher dimensional and as such so superior to our world they are indescribable without metaphors for instance, where space and time are meaningless due to its structure, this would not be the case if they share the exact same dimensionality as our world. Further you have other worlds like the one from the Durandal VN which explicitly don't have the same explanation for dimensions as ours, given they're manifolds, branes and such, and they go out of their way to describe those rather than string dimensions, this combined with the fact that the description for the SoQ mentions that the worlds have their choice of inheritance of the 11 dimensions within the sea, shows that they do not all share this string theory dimensions thing.

I can just send you the previous thread where this was rejected over and over because you have the exact same arguments

 

[Weaver261]

And Welt’s statement does not include the 11 dimensions. So if you want to discredit Durandal VN, you also have to discredit the number of ITs dimensions. Which is still Low 1-C.

What are you saying?? Universe has four infinite dimensions and 7 extra dimensions which are later shown qualitative superiority. This easily qualify for H1-C. Just because one thing is changed, doesn't mean the whole thing is. Durandal going to imaginary tree is precisely the continuation of that visual novel story

 

[SuperNova55555]

Wrong. They were already discussing the curled dimension 'problem' and this was specifically addressed here


I can just send you the previous thread where this was rejected over and over because you have the exact same arguments

My critique is on how Bubble Worlds are formed.

The message you linked assumes that it only refers to the single universe it uses as an example. But not to the actual explanation of how such universes are formed.

The only thing relevant is this:

the SoQ mentions that the worlds have their choice of inheritance of the 11 dimensions within the sea

But this is no defeater on my claim, because the contention is not on how many dimensions a world can have, but how those worlds attain those dimensions. Which is contradictory to the standards. (As it is done through them curling up.) I also linked two other places where this description is given in detail.

What are you saying?? Universe has four infinite dimensions and 7 extra dimensions which are later shown qualitative superiority. This easily qualify for H1-C

You are trying to discredit Durandal’s VN.

Durandal’s VN is where you get the 4+7D statement. So if you discredit the VN, you discredit that as well.

Welt statement on the other hand does not have a number of dimensions. So it’s defaulted to Low 1-C.

 

[Weaver261]

Durandal’s VN is where you get the 4+7D statement. So if you discredit the VN, you discredit that as well.

Welt statement on the other hand does not have a number of dimensions. So it’s defaulted to Low 1-C.

Don't act like this bro. Discrediting everything because one thing is later proven else is crazy. That's not the way to do it. We got tons of explanations in Honkai story which is later proven wrong in story but that doesn't make the whole history invalid. Don't be stubborn just because you don't have anything to argue.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Don't act like this bro. Discrediting everything because one thing is later proven else is crazy. That's not the way to do it. We got tons of explanations in Honkai story which is later proven wrong in story but that doesn't make the whole history invalid. Don't be stubborn just because you don't have anything to argue.

It’s not my fault the verse contains loads of contradictory shit. But you can’t just pick and choose to fit some agenda.

But I am trying to give an explanation on how both work. Which is that IT contains extra un-curled dimensions, which wouldn’t contradict SoQ.

I’ll wait for Viet to give his opinion on this.

 

[SweetDao]

Don't act like this bro. Discrediting everything because one thing is later proven else is crazy. That's not the way to do it. We got tons of explanations in Honkai story which is later proven wrong in story but that doesn't make the whole history invalid. Don't be stubborn just because you don't have anything to argue.

I mean, he's right, either you assume that the whole stuff was retcon (which is a fine choice) or you accept it as is, you can't just selectively choose a single piece of information like this. You're trying to say that "the number of dimensions stated in the VN are fine" while also saying "the specificities of those dimensions were retcon and actually they work like the Alien Space stuff explains it".

 

[Weaver261]

But I am trying to give an explanation on how both work. Which is that IT contains extra un-curled dimensions, which wouldn’t contradict SoQ.

Durandal contains a bubble world with extra dimensions which is why she is able to go to imaginary tree. And then she met the sugars, higher dimensional beings who helped welt to defeat ryusuke. Their alien key can be used in higher dimensional spaces. Welt said gravity works the same way in all dimensions. That's exactly string extra dimensions which is 11 in number. The only thing that's changed is compacitifed part. If you gonna discrediting durandal vn, the story itself will get discrediting meaning future stories like durandal going to imaginary tree has no history to back up

 

[Vietthai96]

The whole point of my argument is that Durandal vn statement is old and no longer valid. Are you reading?

I'm reading and if you want to argue that Durandal VN no longer valid, then there is no 11D, you must discard it entirely if you want to go this route

Don't act like this bro. Discrediting everything because one thing is later proven else is crazy. That's not the way to do it. We got tons of explanations in Honkai story which is later proven wrong in story but that doesn't make the whole history invalid. Don't be stubborn just because you don't have anything to argue.

You can't pick what you like and discard part you don't like, you can't just say "oh hey the VN is old so let discard the curled, compactified dimensions but let keep the number of dimension". You need to prove that the verse itself keep the number of dimension but retcon the compactified part, which i don't see it in Ryusuke statement, he mention higher dimension in singular form, not plural

 

[Breakdown]

I mean, he's right, either you assume that the whole stuff was retcon (which is a fine choice) or you accept it as is, you can't just selectively choose a single piece of information like this. You're trying to say that "the number of dimensions stated in the VN are fine" while also saying "the specificities of those dimensions were retcon and actually they work like the Alien Space stuff explains it".

You can select what information was not retconned and ignore the information which is. That’s how retcons work. For instance, 11D is fine because that statement itself is not retconned.

 

[SuperNova55555]

That's exactly string extra dimensions which is 11 in number.

EVERY dimensional theory since their conception has been made to rationalize the weakness of gravity. This is not exclusive to M-Theory at all

 

[SuperNova55555]

You can select what information was not retconned and ignore the information which is. That’s how retcons work. For instance, 11D is fine because that statement itself is not retconned.

Eleven compactified dimensions have been retconned. Welt’s statement is talking about a whole different set of dimensions.

 

[SweetDao]

You can select what information was not retconned and ignore the information which is. That’s how retcons work. For instance, 11D is fine because that statement itself is not retconned.

You know what, beside the whole "yeah it was retcon" is there ANYTHING that can act as proof that it was?

Because, choosing between Nova's interpretation that doesn't push on the side any of the content vs the supporters trying to claim that one piece of information is retcon/not accurate anymore, I think the former is, out of necessity, the safer approach unless anyone has some proof of the contrary.

 

[Yanina92]

Agree with the thread for now

 

[Weaver261]

You can't pick what you like and discard part you don't like, you can't just say "oh hey the VN is old so let discard the curled, compactified dimensions but let keep the number of dimension". You need to prove that the verse itself keep the number of dimension but retcon the compactified part, which i don't see it in Ryusuke statement, he mention higher dimension in singular form, not plural

This is from hi3 immortal blade chapter which is release after Durandal VN

Five years earlier, she had used this power to cut through layered space, cutting a manifold that supported an entire continent free from the bubble universe.

What is this referring to? This is referring to Durandal Visual Novel where Durandal cuts through the ether anchor which is 11 dimensional

"At the core of the anchor point, where different dimensions of space were originally wrapped together in a haphazard knot like a tangled weed"
"However, where the holy sword burned through, the world was as straight as a mirror."
"I don't know how many dazzling spaces I've shuttled through."
"I don't know how many times the suffocating dimensional barrier has been broken."

"That is the horizon of the bubble universe"
"It is a boundary of all distorted dimensions and, the background texture of the minature universe"

Which mean the number of dimensions isn't changed at all.

Also Higher Dimensions is plural btw

 

[SweetDao]

What is this referring to? This is referring to Durandal Visual Novel where Durandal cuts through the ether anchor which is 11 dimensional

So it's refering to when she cut the "dimensions" that are compactified then?

 

[KingOfDarknessBelow]

Pretty sure

So it's refering to when she cut the "dimensions" that are compactified then?

it's just the bubble worlds that are compacted not the aether Bathtub or anything else

 

[Weaver261]

So it's refering to when she cut the "dimensions" that are compactified then?

It was stated as "Compactified" when explaining about Universe and SoQ by Ironmask. Mind that the sugars who helped Welt are higher dimensional beings while Ironmask isn't.

 

[Vietthai96]

Durandal contains a bubble world with extra dimensions which is why she is able to go to imaginary tree. And then she met the sugars, higher dimensional beings who helped welt to defeat ryusuke. Their alien key can be used in higher dimensional spaces. Welt said gravity works the same way in all dimensions. That's exactly string extra dimensions which is 11 in number. The only thing that's changed is compacitifed part. If you gonna discrediting durandal vn, the story itself will get discrediting meaning future stories like durandal going to imaginary tree has no history to back up

1. The bubble word doesn't have extra dimensions, based on Durandal VN, the bubble world was the result of 7 extra dimensions curled up. However in the main Honkai Impact 3rd game, we knows that bubble world are reflection leaf world, and literally we have the Sirin Imaginary Space scan and Otto statement about the world being 4D space-time

2. Gravity works the same in all dimensions is Brane Cosmology, but brane cosmology encompasses every cosmological structure that have more than 3 spatial dimensions with spaces act as membrane, not exclusive to String Theory

3. String Theory have multiple theories, ranging from 10D to 26D. M-Theory is the one with 11D, which is mentioned in the VN

Which mean the number of dimensions isn't changed at all.

At the core of the anchor point, where different dimensions of space were originally wrapped together in a haphazard knot like a tangled weed"

This directly referring to curled up, compactified dimensions, as they are "strings" tangling with each others and curl up

Also iirc this line is still from the VN?

 

[Weaver261]

This directly referring to curled up, compactified dimensions, as they are "strings" tangling with each others and curl up

Also iirc this line is still from the VN?

It's the root of the space. Yes it's from VN. Also the text said "originally" which means no longer curled

"The Root system of space, as if sleeping beauty's thorns, was mercilessly cut off by the blazing fire."

Otto Apocalypse: The Ether anchor point is a topological formation that exists between dimensional folds, and whether its origin is natural or man-made has yet to be discovered.

Also anchor are higher dimensional. 1 and 2

 

[Dragopentling]

Switching from neutral to L1A downgrade to agree. I’ll keep watching, though.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Also anchor are higher dimensional. 1 and 2

“Dimensional” here referring to curled ones.

 

[Weaver261]

“Dimensional” here referring to curled ones.

"At the core of the anchor point, where different dimensions of space were originally wrapped together in a haphazard knot like a tangled weed"

It's past tense guys

 

[SweetDao]

It's past tense guys

I mean, if it was a knot and she cut it, it's logical it's something else afterward