(ACCEPTED) Sliming all Honkai Scaling (GONE BRUTAL)

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

If this is true then the 'Exhibit B' paragraph of the OP doesn't even work...we're just left with this section of the OP:

Why doesn't it work...? Acknowledging compact dimensions are real higher dimensions (which is objectively true) is not the same as saying compact dimensions are tierable.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Damn bru; 3 pages…?

 

[SuperNova55555]

If this is true then the 'Exhibit B' paragraph of the OP doesn't even work...we're just left with this section of the OP:

Bro what are you talking about. The problem with compactification is their size, not their axis.

 

[Elyartaker]

Following and neutral.

 

[SuperNova55555]

I think most the confusion comes from the most recent explanation of the SoQ (the video linked in the op) where schrodinger describes the SoQ as a bath with the bubble worlds in them so logically anyone would asume that the SoQ = the ether bath my problem with this is the ether bath and ether anchors have been stated to exist in the SoQ in other media (durandal) and i dont think the ether bath has ever been brought up in hi3 aside from ether ‘anchors’ which are described as higher dimensions, so its likely to assume schrodinger was talking about the Ether bath and not the SoQ as a whole. I dont think the SoQ or the tree or IMS are limited to 11D though just the Ether bath and bubble worlds

Anchors are essentially just the points in SoQ where the dimensions fully entangle to become Space-Times. The description of them I’m reading just says they’re subservient parts of the SoQ (who is the Bathtub, as should be obviois by the relation of their names).

 

[Maniaunavailable]

sorry to change it but:

with the opposition args, I disagree with the H1C debunk, and now neutral with L1A, not that my vote matters but its there (also the verse just got updated bruh)

 

[Hjdjdhf]

Damn bru; 3 pages…?

As you might guess, 10 pages are very common

 

[SuperNova55555]

• It explicitly does not belong to any one universe, but is a medium that can carry all possible worlds.
• Its structure cannot be described within a 3-D or even 4-D mathematical framework.
• It is described as an 11-dimensional "ether bathtub" that all "world bubbles" are embedded within.

None of these contradict compactification.

4 spatial +7 curled dimensions does in fact, seem to only be referring to a specific universe rather than the entire SoQ

This really doesn’t matter. “This universe” is explicitly formed by the act of compactification when they become “close enough”. Literally just this single thing is already a disqualifier.

I mean, the standard is infinite size btw.

 

[SuperNova55555]

I will say that I find it weird that people here in a way think compact dimensions are "fake" or not actual dimensions. They still are an entirely different direction of space. Being small doesn't negate it being higher-dimensional. Also just because there are cases of significant higher dimensions or that they can be infinite does not necessitate that all dimensions of space are significant. You can also have an infinite sized higher dimensional construct that's only infinite in regards to some dimensions, it being infinite does not mean every single dimension it posseses are infinite. Then you have stuff saying they inherit these compact dimensions from the ether bathtub which does just mean it has these compact dimensions as well. Essentially people have an all or nothing mindset regarding this for some reason.

Neutral btw lel just want to point something out

I think this portrays most of my thought. People are just confused on what actually is not coherent with compactification as a lot of what I’m seeing here are complete non-issues (and things that are generally expected) for the theory.

Erasing High 1-C from Honkai is a crazy move right there.

Well, i would say i Disagree with this, 11-D already blantant enough for me.

Anyway, i'll just watch this.

Genshin is next bro

 

[Voidnether]

Do people just ignore the 10 dimensional space and 1 dimensional time statement that's stated directly as 11-D + differentiated from the Bubble Worlds that inherited the compactification version instead whilst the Ether Bathtub as the sole container is in its uncompactified form?

 

[Robo432343]

Bro what are you talking about. The problem with compactification is their size, not their axis.

Dude.

You were under the assumption that the Ether Bathtub (which is where the whole compactification thing comes from in the first place) = Sea of Quanta

The entire OP falls apart because of this apart from the Low 1-A stuff, man

 

[SuperNova55555]

You were under the assumption that the Ether Bathtub (which is where the whole compactification thing comes from in the first place) = Sea of Quanta

Big bro, read my comments and OP again.

And I want to ask you: why would “bathtub” and “sea” not always refer to the same thing? They even contain the same anchors and posit the same functions.

And say, hypthetically, that they are separate: can I have the statement where it’s said SoQ’s dimensions are significant?

 

[Voidnether]

Big bro, read my comments and OP again.

And I want to ask you: why would “bathtub” and “sea” not always refer to the same thing? They even contain the same anchors and posit the same functions.

And say, hypthetically, that they are separate: can I have the statement where it’s said SoQ’s dimensions are significant?

Ether Bathtub is within SoQ, it's not SoQ itself.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Ether Bathtub is within SoQ, it's not SoQ itself.

Source?

Do people just ignore the 10 dimensional space and 1 dimensional time statement that's stated directly as 11-D + differentiated from the Bubble Worlds that inherited the compactification version instead whilst the Ether Bathtub as the sole container is in its uncompactified form?

The same scan I used in the OP?

I have two questions:
1) Can you give me ontic reification regarding it; i.e that it is imposing the validity of this dimensional theory on a specific structure within the cosmology.
2) You realize that the vast majority of String/M-Theory is compactified, right…? What’s to say that this hypothetical separate structure isn’t compactified as well?

 

[SuperNova55555]

Also, say the Bathtub is within SoQ (hypothetically); what about this would make it High 1C, if all it has as a feat is containing a Low 1-C structure?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

So if each universe is 4 infinitely dimensional spaces with 7 finite curled dimensions

and there are infinite of them in SoQ
How does that basically make SoQ not significant in size for containing an infinite number of these bubble universe that basically has 7 compactified spatial dimensions and 4 infinities?

If they are compactified, that means they have value at such a level, and if you basically have infinite of them, wouldn't that basically just mean value x infinite ultimately ending up with Infinite 11D?

I'm an outsider in the whole SoQ so explain to me if i got something wrong regarding SoQ details regarding bubble universe/universes

I have no qualms with low 1-A. You upgraded that one. You figure it out.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

So if each universe is 4 infinitely dimensional spaces with 7 finite curled dimensions

and there are infinite of them in SoQ
How does that basically make SoQ not significant in size for containing an infinite number of these bubble universe that basically has 7 compactified spatial dimensions and 4 infinities?

If they are compactified, that means they have value at such a level, and if you basically have infinite of them, wouldn't that basically just mean value x infinite ultimately ending up with Infinite 11D?

Afaik that type of logic doesn't work if they're discreted rather than continuous. You need a continuous whole of a dimension rather than infinite sums of these insignificant dimensions.

 

[SuperNova55555]

So if each universe is 4 infinitely dimensional spaces with 7 finite curled dimensions

and there are infinite of them in SoQ
How does that basically make SoQ not significant in size for containing an infinite number of these bubble universe that basically has 7 compactified spatial dimensions and 4 infinites

If they are compactified, that means they have value at such a level, and if you basically have infinite of them, wouldn't that basically just mean value x infinite ultimately ending up with Infinite 11D?

That’s not how dimensions work lol. I mean it’s in the very math the Tiering System uses wherein any dimensional construct, of even finite size is uncountably infinitely bigger than any infinite amount of lower-dimensional space. The difference here is qualitative; nothing to do with number of universes.

Which, mind you, a lot of this stuff is just immediately contradictory to the text, and just inductions you’re asserting through connecting some displaced points. Not that they’re valid against the debunk anyhow

 

[SuperNova55555]

Afaik that type of logic doesn't work if they're discreted rather than continuous. You need a continuous whole of a dimension rather than infinite sums of these insignificant dimensions.

Also this. The fact they can be “small” means they are discrete in their inherent ontology.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Afaik that type of logic doesn't work if they're discreted rather than continuous. You need a continuous whole of a dimension rather than infinite sums of these insignificant dimensions.

So, at best, this is like 2-A with 7 compact dimensions on top
I mean, it does make sense that way, seeing that's what we do in tier 2 anyway
But the issue is that the SoQ is still the container for the whole overall. Does that not change anything, the same way the container for the entirety of 2-A was argued back then to be able to reach low 1-C, or was that really just a reach?

This is with the idea that those have compactified 7 dimensions
because the container would still be continuous while accommodating those finitely curved dimension

 

[Voidnether]

Source?

The same scan I used in the OP?

I have two questions:
1) Can you give me ontic reification regarding it; i.e that it is imposing the validity of this dimensional theory on a specific structure within the cosmology.
2) You realize that the vast majority of String/M-Theory is compactified, right…? What’s to say that this hypothetical separate structure isn’t compactified as well?

Now, up to this point, it was actually later clarified in Durandal's visual novel that the 11-dimensional bulk space so-called "Ether Bathtub" isn't actually referring to the true form of the Sea of Quanta, but rather another structure that is greater than all of the Bubble Worlds that is encompassed by the Sea of Quanta.

The one I linked in the HSR Discussion Thread is nowhere in the OP that talks about 10 dimensional space + 1 dimensional time

Why it's not compactified?

Honkai Impact upgrade to High 1-B

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with Qaw here. I actually don't even think Low 1-C is acceptable - there are only ever four large dimensions noted, and I strongly doubt that the guy in that one scan who is talking about the difference between a higher dimension and a lower one is fighting someone...

vsbattles.com

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

I'm confused on your response. I'm saying that the blog isn't accurate to the real situation of the Sea of Quanta. As for why Sola chose to say it's 5-D because of that, I have no clue

vsbattles.com

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

It’s not even gonna work because he’s not a staff member.

vsbattles.com

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

I'm confused on your response. I'm saying that the blog isn't accurate to the real situation of the Sea of Quanta. As for why Sola chose to say it's 5-D because of that, I have no clue

vsbattles.com

I'm sure this is common sense that Ether Bathtub which serves as the container for these Bubble Worlds that are infinite in quantity is impossible for it to also be compactified due to it being stated to be 10 dimensional space DIRECTLY and 1 dimensional time, there's the uncompactified form of M-Theory and that's what the Ether Bathtub is using, I ask you to prove the otherwise with scans linked. I dare you.

Prove the Ether Bathtub is compactified, prove it, because the compactification only applies to Bubble Worlds that vary in size.

 

[SuperNova55555]

So, at best, this is like 2-A with 7 compact dimensions on top
I mean, it does make sense that way, seeing that's what we do in tier 2 anyway
But the issue is that the SoQ is still the container for the whole overall. Does that not change anything, the same way the container for the entirety of 2-A was argued back then to be able to reach low 1-C, or was that really just a reach?

You can argue higher-D for other reason in another thread. If SoQ goes to L1C for some other reason I’m not gonna be against that. This thread is purely for the compcatification.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Also an example of an infinite space being able to be higher dimensional while still possessing insignificant dimension is something literally recognized on the wiki where multiverses are considered to have an insignificant fifth axis.

Forgot to mention

 

[Robo432343]

And I want to ask you: why would “bathtub” and “sea” not always refer to the same thing? They even contain the same anchors and posit the same functions.

Dude.

Sea of Quanta - HoYoverse Universe Index

The Sea of Quanta is an existence between and around worlds. It is a chaotic and messy place where spillover from several worlds can gather, and where unstable worlds...

hoyodex.miraheze.org

 

[SuperNova55555]

The one I linked in the HSR Discussion Thread is nowhere in the OP that talks about 10 dimensional space + 1 dimensional time

Why it's not compactified?

Honkai Impact upgrade to High 1-B

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with Qaw here. I actually don't even think Low 1-C is acceptable - there are only ever four large dimensions noted, and I strongly doubt that the guy in that one scan who is talking about the difference between a higher dimension and a lower one is fighting someone...

vsbattles.com

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

I'm confused on your response. I'm saying that the blog isn't accurate to the real situation of the Sea of Quanta. As for why Sola chose to say it's 5-D because of that, I have no clue

vsbattles.com

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

It’s not even gonna work because he’s not a staff member.

vsbattles.com

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

I'm confused on your response. I'm saying that the blog isn't accurate to the real situation of the Sea of Quanta. As for why Sola chose to say it's 5-D because of that, I have no clue

vsbattles.com

I'm sure this is common sense that Ether Bathtub which serves as the container for these Bubble Worlds that are infinite in quantity is impossible for it to also be compactified due to it being stated to be 10 dimensional space DIRECTLY and 1 dimensional time, there's the uncompactified form of M-Theory and that's what the Ether Bathtub is using, I ask you to prove the otherwise with scans linked. I dare you.

Prove the Ether Bathtub is compactified, prove it, because the compactification only applies to Bubble Worlds that vary in size.

I like how you keep replying with things already addressed in the OP lol. And like, you and the fandom in general have this habit of repeating points ad nauseum. My defeater to your post is literally the very comment you’re tryna debunk.

Also the highlighted words are the words of the Hoyo blog, not of any scan in the series. (Which as I said, I addressed in the OP and in the discussion thread beforehand. Not sure why ya’ll keep brining it up).

 

[SuperNova55555]

Dude.

Sea of Quanta - HoYoverse Universe Index

The Sea of Quanta is an existence between and around worlds. It is a chaotic and messy place where spillover from several worlds can gather, and where unstable worlds...

hoyodex.miraheze.org

I don’t think you’re stupid enough to not realize how that quote you sent goes against your points. Thanks for the additional proof btw.

(Anyways I got uni classes so Im off for a bit)

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Dude.

Sea of Quanta - HoYoverse Universe Index

The Sea of Quanta is an existence between and around worlds. It is a chaotic and messy place where spillover from several worlds can gather, and where unstable worlds...

hoyodex.miraheze.org

Bruh this isn’t saying the sea of quanta isn’t the bathtub but that bathtub is an analogy for its nature. It’s just saying it’s not some bathtub that exists in the bathroom you can bathe in and clean up.

I think imma have to agree with thread for now

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

No im trying to show you Durandal VN where we get more info about Sea of Quanta, it has all the quotes about SoQ and its relationship with the Ether Bathtub

I’m reading the link and it’s literally saying the sea and bathtub is the same thing

is not a real sea. It does not belong on a particular planet, nor is it made of liquid substances like water.
To make it easier to understand, you can liken it to a foundation similar to the Imaginary Tree, a medium that can carry all sorts of parallel universes.<a href="https://hoyodex.miraheze.org/wiki/Sea_of_Quanta#cite_note-LT2-9"><span>[</span>LT 2<span>]</span></a><a href="https://hoyodex.miraheze.org/wiki/Sea_of_Quanta#cite_note-LT3-10"><span>[</span>LT 3<span>]</span></a>
If you'd like... think of it as bathtub filled with bubbles. When someone enters the tub, some of the bubbles will reflect the image of that person.
And because these bubbles reflect an image that exists in the real world, we can call them bubble universes.<a href="https://hoyodex.miraheze.org/wiki/Sea_of_Quanta#cite_note-LT2-9"><span>[</span>LT 2<span>]</span></a>

 

[Voidnether]

I like how you keep replying with things already addressed in the OP lol. And like, you and the fandom in general have this habit of repeating points ad nauseum. My defeater to your post is literally the very comment you’re tryna debunk.

Also the highlighted words are the words of the Hoyo blog, not of any scan in the series. (Which as I said, I addressed in the OP and in the discussion thread beforehand. Not sure why ya’ll keep brining it up).

"Already addressed"
Sure, address it for the second time, then.

 

[Robo432343]

I’m reading the link and it’s literally saying the sea and bathtub is the same thing

i dont know how are you coming to that conclusion, the VN is saying that the ether bathtab and the ether anchor exist in the SoQ

—Following that metaphor, the "Sea of Quanta" is an "ocean" that houses countless "bubble worlds".
...Of course, it doesn't matter if you think of it as a bathtub instead of an ocean.

When these "bubble worlds" are in the "Ether Bathtub", a choice of which of the eleven dimensions are inherited must be made.

And even if thats not the case, compactified dimensions is not enough for an anti feat. Quoting from a staff member:

First of all, String Theory isn't natively about small-scale extra dimensions. Brane Cosmology is also a part of String Theory, both the small and large extra dimensions are branches of String Theory that try to explain why the extra dimension isn't seen, one states that they are super small and so from our perspective they have all been eliminated due to dimensional compactification, the other states that they are big and exists outside of the brane that limits our world in a higher-dimensional bulk. Both are answers to strings needing extra dimensions, so it's not a case of "if there are strings, they need to be compact".

However, the fact that they were talking directly about finite curled dimensions makes that already clear, even if no string theory is mentioned.

However, that doesn't eliminate all the possibilities for large higher dimensions. If what the others are talking about is the sea of quanta having more types of physical worlds than just that one is true, it could be possible for those different physical spaces to have large higher dimensions. After all, a multiverse can include universes with a different set of laws of physics.

Another point is that although large dimensions are a way to have valid qualitative superiority, that is also not the only way. If anything the main reason why compactified dimensions don't scale naturally to larger tiers is that they are often not portrayed as giving qualitative superiority and in our system we assume that large dimensions are already giving qualitative superiority. If qualitative superiority is still proven in the series, even with compactified dimensions, I think it should be enough for higher tiers.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

The one I linked in the HSR Discussion Thread is nowhere in the OP that talks about 10 dimensional space + 1 dimensional time

Why it's not compactified?

Honkai Impact upgrade to High 1-B

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with Qaw here. I actually don't even think Low 1-C is acceptable - there are only ever four large dimensions noted, and I strongly doubt that the guy in that one scan who is talking about the difference between a higher dimension and a lower one is fighting someone...

vsbattles.com

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

I'm confused on your response. I'm saying that the blog isn't accurate to the real situation of the Sea of Quanta. As for why Sola chose to say it's 5-D because of that, I have no clue

vsbattles.com

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

It’s not even gonna work because he’s not a staff member.

vsbattles.com

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

I'm confused on your response. I'm saying that the blog isn't accurate to the real situation of the Sea of Quanta. As for why Sola chose to say it's 5-D because of that, I have no clue

vsbattles.com

I'm sure this is common sense that Ether Bathtub which serves as the container for these Bubble Worlds that are infinite in quantity is impossible for it to also be compactified due to it being stated to be 10 dimensional space DIRECTLY and 1 dimensional time, there's the uncompactified form of M-Theory and that's what the Ether Bathtub is using, I ask you to prove the otherwise with scans linked. I dare you.

Prove the Ether Bathtub is compactified, prove it, because the compactification only applies to Bubble Worlds that vary in size.

You’re just asserting the ether bathtub is not compact without concrete evidence of the case despite the scans literally talking about compactification. Lmfao?

You can have an infinite space that still possesses compact dimensions.

Being stated to be 11-D doesn’t contradict compactification because compact dimensions are still higher dimensions.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

i dont know how are you coming to that conclusion, the VN is literally saying that the ether bath and the ether anchor exist in the SoQ



bubble worlds = bathtub

yea man I wonder ******* why

If you'd like... think of it as bathtub filled with bubbles. When someone enters the tub, some of the bubbles will reflect the image of that person.

Bubbles = worlds

Sea of quanta = container of worlds

Bathtub = container of bubbles

Sea of Quanta itself not a subset is likened to a bathtub
Gee man. (Half life 3?)

 

[SweetDao]

Robo stop trolling, it's starting to be obvious

 

[SuperNova55555]

I think some of these counteragruments have gotta be intentional ragebait. Robo stop larping bro honkaiscalers ain’t gonna let you crack

 

[Furina003]

I follow, but I want to ask? and make sure? what was lowered?
SoQ and IT became tier 2?
If that's the case, I disagree, I do hate the exaggerated Honkai scaling, but lowering SoQ and IT to tier 2 is completely unreasonable because they are explicitly stated as 11d, so the lowest should fall at h1c, and I agree with that.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I follow, but I want to ask? and make sure? what was lowered?
SoQ and IT became tier 2?
If that's the case, I disagree, I do hate the exaggerated Honkai scaling, but lowering SoQ and IT to tier 2 is completely unreasonable because they are explicitly stated as 11d, so the lowest should fall at h1c, and I agree with that.

You’re kinda completely missing the point here. Compact dimensions and 11-D aren’t mutually exclusive because they’re still real dimensions just not tierable like that. In fact they can be rather inclusive.

 

[SuperNova55555]

yea man I wonder ******* why

Bubbles = worlds

Sea of quanta = container of worlds

Bathtub = container of bubbles

Sea of Quanta itself not a subset is likened to a bathtub
Gee man. (Half life 3?)

Genuinely flowery language-diff for this fandom. Even the most basic allegories can be misinterpreted to oblivion. To literally any outsider it should be immediately obvious that Bathtub and Sea refer to the same structure

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Robo stop trolling, it's starting to be obvious

I think some of these counteragruments have gotta be intentional ragebait. Robo stop larping bro honkaiscalers ain’t gonna let you crack

so what the **** are you expecting us to do if we cant even defend our verse, bend our ass and let your tard larping ass **** us 24/7?

 

[SweetDao]

so what the ** are you expecting us to do if we cant even defend our verse, bend our ass and let your tard larping ass ** us 24/7?

You miss the point here. Defending is fine, no one is saying you have to accept it as is. Just that Robot is either misreading the text (in which case Nova or someone else will answer him) or he's just repeating something that is clearly false and he knows it. I don't think Nova or anyone else has a problem with supporters of the verse trying to defend their position otherwise.

 

[RoninSlayer200]

A question. In this thread IT was accepted to be +1D against SoQ. If this thread still passes, shouldn't tree at least be Low 1-C universe bare minimum?