(ACCEPTED) Sliming all Honkai Scaling (GONE BRUTAL)

[Ascka23]

The 1-C downgrade makes sense, everything there is very damning, especially the direct confirmations of compactified dimensions. I'll wait a bit on the Low 1-A downgrade portion to see if there are any proper counter arguments.

Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

Do I js kill the verse rn. I think I can slime both L1A and 11D in like 30 mins

vsbattles.com

The compactified dimensions issue had been addressed long ago.

 

[Planck69]

Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

Do I js kill the verse rn. I think I can slime both L1A and 11D in like 30 mins

vsbattles.com

The compactified dimensions issue had been addressed long ago.

That's a link, to a post with another link, to a post that was made 5 years ago. Perhaps there is an explanation for why it would be in line with our current tiering system, but I'd hope that it be posted here and explained with more current standards.

Especially given nothing in that post actually addressed the issue here. One says that the dimensions can be infinite but we are directly told that they're small and compactified.

 

[Ascka23]

That's a link, to a post with another link, to a post that was made 5 years ago. Perhaps there is an explanation for why it would be in line with our current tiering system, but I'd hope that it be posted here and explained with more current standards.

Especially given nothing in that post actually addressed the issue here. One says that the dimensions can be infinite but we are directly told that they're small and compactified.

If you re-read the scan, it said that only a single universe has 4 infinite dimensions and 7 finitely curled dimensions, not the other universes, neither does it mention the Sea of Quanta which is where the entire High 1-C rating for the verse comes from. It doesn't mean that all other universes or even the entire Sea of Quanta is also the same with only 4 infinite dimensions. Especially there are blatant in-verse statements that says and supports that the length of dimensions can be infinite.

 

[Voidnether]

That's a link, to a post with another link, to a post that was made 5 years ago. Perhaps there is an explanation for why it would be in line with our current tiering system, but I'd hope that it be posted here and explained with more current standards.

Especially given nothing in that post actually addressed the issue here. One says that the dimensions can be infinite but we are directly told that they're small and compactified.

It was accepted 5 years ago based on this, plus the scans I linked here shows that the Ether Bathtub uses the uncompactified version of M-Theory

Honkai Impact upgrade to High 1-B

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with Qaw here. I actually don't even think Low 1-C is acceptable - there are only ever four large dimensions noted, and I strongly doubt that the guy in that one scan who is talking about the difference between a higher dimension and a lower one is fighting someone...

vsbattles.com

The dimensions can be infinite stuff refer to the Imaginary Tree instead of the Sea of Quanta, atleast according to the OP 5 years ago in which High 1-B is being proposed on

 

[Mbpoops]

That's a link, to a post with another link, to a post that was made 5 years ago. Perhaps there is an explanation for why it would be in line with our current tiering system, but I'd hope that it be posted here and explained with more current standards.

Especially given nothing in that post actually addressed the issue here. One says that the dimensions can be infinite but we are directly told that they're small and compactified.

I still dont see how this would downscale the verse overall since the ether bath is still 11D minimum and the SoQ contains to ether bath which would make it 11-12D minumum. Bubble worlds i dont agree with being 11D but not all of them have ever been stated to have 11 dimensions its just some. Some will be 4D, 6D 9D anything up to 10-11D but not all of them have the same dimensional makeup. The ether bathtub still holds 11 dimensions and resides within the SoQ.

 

[Planck69]

If you re-read the scan, it said that only a single universe has 4 infinite dimensions and 7 finitely curled dimensions, not the other universes, neither does it mention the Sea of Quanta which is where the entire High 1-C rating for the verse comes from. It doesn't mean that all other universes or even the entire Sea of Quanta is also the same with only 4 infinite dimensions. Especially there are blatant in-verse statements that says and supports that the length of dimensions can be infinite.

Well, can I see the proof of these other universes having non-compactified dimensions? You're arguing backwards when you should be proving why this only applied to one specific universe and not the rest.

It was accepted 5 years ago based on this, plus the scans I linked here shows that the Ether Bathtub uses the uncompactified version of M-Theory

Honkai Impact upgrade to High 1-B

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with Qaw here. I actually don't even think Low 1-C is acceptable - there are only ever four large dimensions noted, and I strongly doubt that the guy in that one scan who is talking about the difference between a higher dimension and a lower one is fighting someone...

vsbattles.com

The dimensions can be infinite stuff refer to the Imaginary Tree instead of the Sea of Quanta, atleast according to the OP 5 years ago in which High 1-B is being proposed on

Which specific scan should I be looking at? That section of the blog just mentions the standard descriptions of string theory and 11 dimensions, with no actual distinction of them being compactified or not.

I still dont see how this would downscale the verse overall since the ether bath is still 11D minimum and the SoQ contains to ether bath which would make it 11-12D minumum. Bubble worlds i dont agree with being 11D but not all of them have ever been stated to have 11 dimensions its just some. Some will be 4D, 6D 9D anything up to 10-11D but not all of them have the same dimensional makeup. The ether bathtub still holds 11 dimensions and resides within the SoQ.

Because compactified dimensions don't scale to High 1-C, due to being insignificant in size.

 

[Voidnether]

Well, can I see the proof of these other universes having non-compactified dimensions? You're arguing backwards when you should be proving why this only applied to one specific universe and not the rest.


Which specific scan should I be looking at? That section of the blog just mentions the standard descriptions of string theory and 11 dimensions, with no actual distinction of them being compactified or not.


Because compactified dimensions don't scale to High 1-C, due to being insignificant in size.

The one where they stated it's 10 dimensional space and 1 dimensional time, they explicitly stated it that way so they obviously differentiated it from the Bubble Worlds that's infinite 4-D and finite 7-D

Ether Bathtub is the 10 dimensional space and 1 dimensional time that governs the infinite 4-D and finite 7-D bubble worlds in which the amount of the bubble worlds here are infinite

 

[Mr._East_Statement]

sorry if am dumb, but this is for the sea of quanta?

Sigh I intended not to make any comment that would derail the thread, but I’ll make this one to clear things up and be done.

Short answer: Yes, downgrade the SoQ from 11D.
Long answer:
As we know, each upscale based on quantitative measurement (meaning anything below 1-A, as opposed to purely qualitative “otherness”) requires at least one significant-sized dimension to qualify for a 1D upscale—meaning it must be infinite to be considered “significant-sized.”

The OP is arguing that they are, in fact, not infinite, following the explanation that they are "compactified" dimensions with a sufficiently "small distance". They have also supported their claim with scans showing that even if we accept the 11D claim, those dimensions are not of significant size and therefore do not qualify.

Supporters would need to pull out a strong argument if they want this to pass and break through.

This is why I find any discussion about the “beyond dimensionality cocoon” (a false dichotomy if we rely solely on that single statement, honestly), or claims that the Tree outgrows the SoQ itself, to be irrelevant. At best, those arguments would only help with Low 1-C scaling unless supporters can break the “compactified dimensions” issue with solid reasoning.

Not that my opinion matters here. But I agree with the possible L1C downgrade. I'm neutral with the part regarding downgrade from L1A at the moment.

This thread is already going to hit ten pages…

 

[Mbpoops]

Because compactified dimensions don't scale to High 1-C, due to being insignificant in size.

But would the ether bubble having 11 dimensions be compactified? The only compactified dimensions would be the ones in the bubble universes but the ether bubble still has 11 dimensions and grants up to 11 dimensions to certain bubble universes

 

[Dragopentling]

Not that my opinion matters here. But I completely agree with the possible L1C downgrade. I'm neutral with the part regarding downgrade from L1A at the moment.

That being said, damn....all that work for the initial L1A upgrade just for the same guy to make a downgrade, instead.

 

[Voidnether]

Sigh I intended to not make any comment that drill the thread but I'll make this to clear up and done.

Short answer: Yes to downgrade the SoQ from 11D.
Long answer:
As we know, each upscale that is based on the qunatitative measurement (meaning anything before 1-A that is by pure qualitative "otherness") needs at least one "significant-sized dimension" to quality for 1D upscale, meaning it should be infinite to be a "significant-sized".

Op here is arguing that they are, in fact, not infinite following the explanation of how they are "compactified" dimensions with "a distance small enough." They also had proven their points with their scans that however even we say 11D, it is not of a significant size, so it does not qualify.

Supporters need to pull some lost scan from a dark corner that be strong enough to break through OP's point if they want to pass this.

And that's why I find any conversation about the "beyond dimensionality cocoon" (False Dichotomy if we simply relay on that single statement honestly), that Tree in fact outgrowth the SoQ itself, or such as irrelevant since they would only help for L1-C scaling if supporters do not break the "compactified dimensions" curse with a good reasoning.

This thread going to turn into 10 pages already…

The compactified dimension stuff only applies to the Bubble Worlds (not the Ether Bathtub that contains all these bubble worlds, which is 11-D and they directly scale from this), the Tree itself that's stated to have its dimensions to be infinite and that if transfinite numbers are applied to the Tree, the Tree is infinite in the sense of transfinite numbers than the Earth which is infinite, I already explained all this in the original L1-A thread since this pertains to the size of Real Space, Imaginary Space is unaffected. Literally in the original compactified dimensions scan, it's that the Bubble Worlds inherit the property of Ether Bathtub that's 10 dimensional space and 1 dimensional of time but since they can't, the Bubble Worlds had their stuff compactified instead

After the MWI section, where they must inherit the 11 dimensional properties but since they're Bubble Worlds, they can't, not to mention the size of Bubble Worlds vary with the highest possible one being infinite 4-D and finite 7-D like I said earlier

 

[Mbpoops]

The compactified dimension stuff only applies to the Bubble Worlds (not the Ether Bathtub that contains all these bubble worlds, which is 11-D and they directly scale from this), the Tree itself that's stated to have its dimensions to be infinite and that if transfinite numbers are applied to the Tree, the Tree is infinite in the sense of transfinite numbers than the Earth which is infinite, I already explained all this in the original L1-A thread since this pertains to the size of Real Space, Imaginary Space is unaffected. Literally in the original compactified dimensions scan, it's that the Bubble Worlds inherit the property of Ether Bathtub that's 10 dimensional space and 1 dimensional of time but since they can't, the Bubble Worlds had their stuff compactified instead

Heres the transfinite scan if anyone was wondering

 

[Ascka23]

Well, can I see the proof of these other universes having non-compactified dimensions? You're arguing backwards when you should be proving why this only applied to one specific universe and not the rest.

You're an admin, do admire your status but I also wish that you can be patient with normal members who put effort into defending our verses and work.

I read the OP but also am confused. May you specify which part of it falls appealing to you that made you agree? I'll go through it one by one. Thank you.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

The one where they stated it's 10 dimensional space and 1 dimensional time, they explicitly stated it that way so they obviously differentiated it from the Bubble Worlds that's infinite 4-D and finite 7-D

Ether Bathtub is the 10 dimensional space and 1 dimensional time that governs the infinite 4-D and finite 7-D bubble worlds in which the amount of the bubble worlds here are infinite

Yeah this looks pretty blatant to me

 

[Mbpoops]

Yea this basically changes nothing unless you want to use this thread nuke low 1-A which idrc abt i think it should stay (for ims entities) unless we get to keep CM1

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Anyways Following/neutral
And like other thread this'll be my 1 comment, to not derail (Y'all need to do better to defend yo verse, this arguing stuff isn't cutting it not going to lie)

 

[Voidnether]

Anyways Following/neutral
And like other thread this'll be my 1 comment, to not derail (Y'all need to do better to defend yo verse, this arguing stuff isn't cutting it not going to lie)

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

I'm confused on your response. I'm saying that the blog isn't accurate to the real situation of the Sea of Quanta. As for why Sola chose to say it's 5-D because of that, I have no clue

vsbattles.com

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

It’s not even gonna work because he’s not a staff member.

vsbattles.com

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

I'm confused on your response. I'm saying that the blog isn't accurate to the real situation of the Sea of Quanta. As for why Sola chose to say it's 5-D because of that, I have no clue

vsbattles.com

These arguments are more than enough.

 

[Mbpoops]

Anyways Following/neutral
And like other thread this'll be my 1 comment, to not derail (Y'all need to do better to defend yo verse, this arguing stuff isn't cutting it not going to lie)

Dont mean to loop you into this nonsense but i think the arguments presented are fine since no one on the wiki actually scales off the bubble universes thay scale off the ether bathtub which does have 11 dimensions

 

[Ascka23]

snip

You asked for more evidence as for if other universes are non-compactified. There was a previous CRT that covered the removal of High 1-C for Honkai before, it was unconcluded but it was rejected by many tier 1 experts.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/honkai-cosmology-and-scaling-philosophy-rework.157715/post-5994398

https://vsbattles.com/threads/honkai-cosmology-and-scaling-philosophy-rework.157715/post-6002398

https://vsbattles.com/threads/honkai-cosmology-and-scaling-philosophy-rework.157715/post-5994323

Since you talked about String Theory being taking in, therefore the dimensions must be compacified, then please read the above posts. It'll be really helpful. Brane cosmology applies in the current scenario.

There is also this:


Carl explicitly said that dimensions can be infinite.
The OP @Super_Nova argued against the scan:
Well, three problems:

1. The scans refer to the number of dimensions, not their size.
2. This would contradict the earlier statements about SoQ.
3. Considering that the verse isn't High 1-B right now, I can accurately assume that there's a very good reason why these scans are untrustworthy. (Which I can expect is to do with the usage of the verb "can be")

First off, in the original thread that upgraded Honkai to High 1-C, @Qawsedf234 was the one who argued that the scan talking about infinite dimensions is talking about dimensions are infinite in length, not in quantity. We also have no evidence Carl that is talking about quantity instead of length. But if you look into the gallery, do you really see a reason to assume its talking about the quantity of dimensions instead of the length?

Secondly, the scan would not contradict the earlier statements about the Sea of Quanta, because it is only said a "For example, a single universe has 4 infinite dimensions and 7 curled dimensions". It neither mentioned the Sea of Quanta nor any other universes inside the Sea of Quanta. Do you think statements would contradict since this is the actual case?

Thirdly... well, no one here is arguing for High 1-B. So I'm just gonna ignore that ragebait.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Hope this helps, I have pulled up some of the scans in order of how they were addressed in this post.

1. It explicitly does not belong to any one universe, but is a medium that can carry all possible worlds.
2. Its structure cannot be described within a 3-D or even 4-D mathematical framework.
3. It is described as an 11-dimensional "ether bathtub" that all "world bubbles" are embedded within.

Unfortunately, while I can't find the source for the fourth point addressed back then, I did manage to find this post which does seem to say that the whole 4 spatial +7 curled dimensions does in fact, seem to only be referring to a specific universe rather than the entire SoQ. In tandem with the first scan linked that mentions how it doesn't belong to any one universe I think this at least does get the ball rolling on the confusion regarding whether it was, or was not referring to the SoQ, anyways I will let the supporters take over from here.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Hope this helps, I have pulled up some of the scans in order of how they were addressed in this post.

1. It explicitly does not belong to any one universe, but is a medium that can carry all possible worlds.
2. Its structure cannot be described within a 3-D or even 4-D mathematical framework.
3. It is described as an 11-dimensional "ether bathtub" that all "world bubbles" are embedded within.

Unfortunately, while I can't find the source for the fourth point addressed back then, I did manage to find this post which does seem to say that the whole 4 spatial +7 curled dimensions does in fact, seem to only be referring to a specific universe rather than the entire SoQ. In tandem with the first scan linked that mentions how it doesn't belong to any one universe I think this at least does get the ball rolling on the confusion regarding whether it was, or was not referring to the SoQ, anyways I will let the supporters take over from here.

You asked for more evidence as for if other universes are non-compactified. There was a previous CRT that covered the removal of High 1-C for Honkai before, it was unconcluded but it was rejected by many tier 1 experts.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/honkai-cosmology-and-scaling-philosophy-rework.157715/post-5994398

https://vsbattles.com/threads/honkai-cosmology-and-scaling-philosophy-rework.157715/post-6002398

https://vsbattles.com/threads/honkai-cosmology-and-scaling-philosophy-rework.157715/post-5994323

Since you talked about String Theory being taking in, therefore the dimensions must be compacified, then please read the above posts. It'll be really helpful. Brane cosmology applies in the current scenario.

There is also this:


Carl explicitly said that dimensions can be infinite.
The OP @Super_Nova argued against the scan:
Well, three problems:

1. The scans refer to the number of dimensions, not their size.
2. This would contradict the earlier statements about SoQ.
3. Considering that the verse isn't High 1-B right now, I can accurately assume that there's a very good reason why these scans are untrustworthy. (Which I can expect is to do with the usage of the verb "can be")

First off, in the original thread that upgraded Honkai to High 1-C, @Qawsedf234 was the one who argued that the scan talking about infinite dimensions is talking about dimensions are infinite in length, not in quantity. We also have no evidence Carl that is talking about quantity instead of length. But if you look into the gallery, do you really see a reason to assume its talking about the quantity of dimensions instead of the length?

Secondly, the scan would not contradict the earlier statements about the Sea of Quanta, because it is only said a "For example, a single universe has 4 infinite dimensions and 7 curled dimensions". It neither mentioned the Sea of Quanta nor any other universes inside the Sea of Quanta. Do you think statements would contradict since this is the actual case?

Thirdly... well, no one here is arguing for High 1-B. So I'm just gonna ignore that ragebait.

Yeah im gonna have to disagree with the thread regarding 11D downgrade. Even more damning that its the same line of contention/argumentation repeated in the span of 5 years/crts

 

[Mbpoops]

Yeah im gonna have to disagree with the thread regarding 11D downgrade. Even more damning that its the same line of contention/argumentation repeated in the span of 5 years/crts

would this be a honkai impact 3rd or amphorous reference

 

[Lycoris4812]

Wrong thread bozo.

 

[Mbpoops]

Yeah im gonna have to disagree with the thread regarding 11D downgrade. Even more damning that its the same line of contention/argumentation repeated in the span of 5 years/crts

Just to clarify are you disagreeing with the op or the ones you replied too (might be a bit slow)

 

[Planck69]

I would ask that everyone keep on topic.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

also just want to bring up that numerous honkai crt proposals were contended several times by thread mods and super mods due to the verse being a straightforward brane cosmology. Take that as you will.

 

[NothingToDebateWith]

Finitely curled up dimensions thing, I've witnessed to that argument being brought up so many times that it unironically rivals Touhou Speed Downgrades at this point. Maybe a Discussion Rule should be established after this.

 

[Hecky2222]

I agree with 11C downgrade

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I would ask that everyone keep on topic.

Ok but do you have any thoughts on the vast amount of contentions against the OP and @Voidnether own response towards your question for him?

The one where they stated it's 10 dimensional space and 1 dimensional time, they explicitly stated it that way so they obviously differentiated it from the Bubble Worlds that's infinite 4-D and finite 7-D

Ether Bathtub is the 10 dimensional space and 1 dimensional time that governs the infinite 4-D and finite 7-D bubble worlds in which the amount of the bubble worlds here are infinite

 

[Robo432343]

i agree with the Low 1-A downgrade but how do you disagree with High 1-C?? High 1-C is very blatant

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

i agree with the Low 1-A downgrade but how do you disagree with High 1-C?? High 1-C is very blatant

By repeating the same argumentation that has been argued for 5 years now. It’s legit the same argumentation. I don’t know why this is being portrayed as damning evidence like this argumentation didn’t fail twice.

 

[Breakdown]

The sheer amount of scans and threads that exist against OP’s scans are damning. I’ll add these scans to the mix. Higher dimensions seeing lower ones like novels means that there really isn’t any doubt about 11-D (Or higher).

 

[Mbpoops]

began the Durandal VN (fan translated version i can link the download link if you think it doesnt suffice). and made this imgur page from the first 2 chapters of the game and they do seem to match with the cosmology page.

 

[MSahla]

Erasing High 1-C from Honkai is a crazy move right there.

Well, i would say i Disagree with this, 11-D already blantant enough for me.

Anyway, i'll just watch this.

 

[Mbpoops]

began the Durandal VN (fan translated version i can link the download link if you think it doesnt suffice). and made this imgur page from the first 2 chapters of the game and they do seem to match with the cosmology page.

wont be able to finish today because w*rk but this should be evidence enough that the ether anchor is a seperate structure existing in the SoQ

 

[Robo432343]

the debunk that addresses this post is that the post was made 5 years ago...even though our High 1-C standards never really changed since then

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

the debunk that addresses this post is that the post was made 5 years ago...even though our High 1-C standards has never really changed since then

Yeah it has never really changed, which is really weird that using the age of the post invalidates the argument when that same debunk also applied to a 2023 crt using the same arguments as the OP but on a larger scale.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I will say that I find it weird that people here in a way think compact dimensions are "fake" or not actual dimensions. They still are an entirely different direction of space. Being small doesn't negate it being higher-dimensional. Also just because there are cases of significant higher dimensions or that they can be infinite does not necessitate that all dimensions of space are significant. You can also have an infinite sized higher dimensional construct that's only infinite in regards to some dimensions, it being infinite does not mean every single dimension it posseses are infinite. Then you have stuff saying they inherit these compact dimensions from the ether bathtub which does just mean it has these compact dimensions as well. Essentially people have an all or nothing mindset regarding this for some reason.

Neutral btw lel just want to point something out

 

[Robo432343]

I will say that I find it weird that people here in a way think compact dimensions are "fake" or not actual dimensions. They still are an entirely different direction of space. Being small doesn't negate it being higher-dimensional.

If this is true then the 'Exhibit B' paragraph of the OP doesn't even work...we're just left with this section of the OP:

Well, three problems:

1. The scans refer to the number of dimensions, not their size.
2. This would contradict the earlier statements about SoQ.
3. Considering that the verse isn't High 1-B right now, I can accurately assume that there's a very good reason why these scans are untrustworthy. (Which I can expect is to do with the usage of the verb "can be")

And even if they were actually talking about size, and even if they were truly infinite; they still wouldn't work here. For this, I'd rather just use the words of @BestMGQScalerEver:

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

If this is true then the 'Exhibit B' paragraph of the OP doesn't even work...we're just left with this section of the OP:

Which is crazy because

You asked for more evidence as for if other universes are non-compactified. There was a previous CRT that covered the removal of High 1-C for Honkai before, it was unconcluded but it was rejected by many tier 1 experts.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/honkai-cosmology-and-scaling-philosophy-rework.157715/post-5994398

https://vsbattles.com/threads/honkai-cosmology-and-scaling-philosophy-rework.157715/post-6002398

https://vsbattles.com/threads/honkai-cosmology-and-scaling-philosophy-rework.157715/post-5994323

Since you talked about String Theory being taking in, therefore the dimensions must be compacified, then please read the above posts. It'll be really helpful. Brane cosmology applies in the current scenario.

There is also this:


Carl explicitly said that dimensions can be infinite.
The OP @Super_Nova argued against the scan:
Well, three problems:

1. The scans refer to the number of dimensions, not their size.
2. This would contradict the earlier statements about SoQ.
3. Considering that the verse isn't High 1-B right now, I can accurately assume that there's a very good reason why these scans are untrustworthy. (Which I can expect is to do with the usage of the verb "can be")

First off, in the original thread that upgraded Honkai to High 1-C, @Qawsedf234 was the one who argued that the scan talking about infinite dimensions is talking about dimensions are infinite in length, not in quantity. We also have no evidence Carl that is talking about quantity instead of length. But if you look into the gallery, do you really see a reason to assume its talking about the quantity of dimensions instead of the length?

Secondly, the scan would not contradict the earlier statements about the Sea of Quanta, because it is only said a "For example, a single universe has 4 infinite dimensions and 7 curled dimensions". It neither mentioned the Sea of Quanta nor any other universes inside the Sea of Quanta. Do you think statements would contradict since this is the actual case?

Thirdly... well, no one here is arguing for High 1-B. So I'm just gonna ignore that ragebait.