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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

This same Zamasu had his attack held back by Base Goku, Vegeta, and a tired out Ikari Trunks 💀
Even Shin solos IZ
He was trying to level the planet he didnt gaf about them no more
Timeline was never mentioned. The only thing that may be interpreted as that is "affectting the present" which may mean absolutely everything. And him reopening Black's rift doesn't mean him merging with timeline because other end of that rift is literally inside of that universe he is merging with. On earth. Now I am waiting for your proofs other than headcanons.
I also had this same argument with chariot in that IZ thread, we have proof zamasu did fuse with the timeline but it just seems to some how gloss over your heads .
Zeno was targeting the timeline and not zamasu. The argument is zamasu shouldn't have been affected by Zeno's erasure of the timeline, because at that point zamasu was already affecting other timelines so he'd have to be at least in the space between timelines which is out of Zeno range as shown when future trunks and Mai ran away to another time line they survived.
Meaning Zamasu was the timeline itself hence why even his extended self outside Zeno range was affected.
I swear if not Zeno erasing timeline statement nobody would even interpret Infinite Zamasu as Timeline Zamasu
We also have the time rings as additional info for that .
Dude, that scan is literally from the one used in his justifications for the eventual 5D rating
This "eventually" low 1C stuff pisses me off
Zeno erasing the timeline doesn't mean Zamasu himself merged with the entire thing
.
Jiren never fought Zamasu so that statement is kinda Faulty he's stated to be above Zamasu Before he began his merging with the timeline or universe whatever.
Zamasu Fused with the timeline, any top tier in the verse is low 1C, Jiren mui Goku broly Gogeta etc
 
Tbf barriers in Dragon Ball are kinda busted. Didn't a weakened base Goku block an attack from Gas with a barrier?

But yeah. Also a weakened Goku, Vegeta and Trunks could momentarily hold against Zamasu before he overwhelmed them with a stronger ray
He wasn't targeting them omg... He just wanted to surface wipe and they were in the way , there is no way you think a 4B character is stopping a 2C attack with "energy" and besides after surface wiping he doesn't attack again showing he wasn't blood lusted and didn't care about them
 
Zamasu Fused with the timeline, any top tier in the verse is low 1C, Jiren mui Goku broly Gogeta etc
Eventually L1C no. No one scales to that version. You need explicit proof. Proof they could have fought that version too. Proof they didn't need Zeno. Goku vegeta and anyone else is not L1C, unless you have scans to prove they could have won , then go ahead and send it.
 
The only thing i think would be correct would be to upgrade Zeno to immeasurable attack speed, his ki crossed a void between timelines to reach Infinite Zamasu in the present, and we see the energy affecting Infinite Zamasu in the present.
 
I am thinking about opening a thread specifically about Dragon Ball cosmology, arguing that the multiverse in Dragon Ball is Type 3, and that we have a very large amount of logical and solid evidence proving this, evidence that cannot be ignored by anyone.

I will begin by explaining the matter:

Explanation of the multiverse mechanism followed by Dragon Ball

Level III: The Many-Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics

The Many-Worlds Interpretation (MWI) of quantum mechanics, proposed by Hugh Everett III, is one of the well-known interpretations of quantum mechanics.
In short, one aspect of quantum mechanics is the impossibility of absolutely predicting certain observations; instead, there exists a set of possible observations, each with a different probability.

According to the Many-Worlds Interpretation, each possible observation represents a separate universe.
For example, suppose a six-sided die is rolled, and the outcome of the roll represents an observable quantum phenomenon. The six possible outcomes of the die correspond to six different universes

Tegmark argues that the Level III multiverse does not contain more possibilities within a Hubble volume than the Level I or Level II multiverse. In fact, all the different worlds produced by branching in a Level III multiverse can be found with the same physical constants within a Hubble volume of a Level I multiverse.
Tegmark writes that the only difference between Level I and Level III is where your copies reside: in Level I, they live elsewhere in three-dimensional space, while in Level III, they live in another quantum branch within an infinite-dimensional Hilbert space.

Similarly, all Level II bubble universes with different physical constants can be considered worlds produced by branching during moments of spontaneous symmetry breaking in a Level III multiverse.
According to Raphael Bousso and Leonard Susskind, and according to Yasunori Nomura, this is because the global spacetime of eternal inflation multiverses is a redundant concept. This means that multiverses of Levels I, II, and III are actually the same thing.
This hypothesis is known as the Quantum Multiverse.

Historical background

Richard Feynman’s many-worlds ideas are connected to the many-minds interpretation and to H. Dieter Zeh’s formulation of decoherence.

Explanation of key points of the Type (3) Many-Worlds Interpretation:

• Branching of the universe at every quantum event or decision, such as a quantum measurement. The universe splits into multiple new universes, each representing a different possible outcome.

• Reality for every possibility: If an event has two possible outcomes, the universe splits into two universes — one where outcome (A) occurs and another where outcome (B) occurs.

• Observed reality: We perceive only one outcome because we exist within one of these branched universes.

• Consistency with quantum mechanics: Everett’s interpretation avoids wave function collapse, a complex concept in quantum mechanics, by assuming that all possibilities occur in separate realities.

Getting to the core of the topic:

On the Dragon Ball website:

Professor Futamaze states:

The concept of parallel worlds arose from the study of quantum mechanics. It says that at this moment, there are countless universes in existence, and each of them contains “you.” So if there were, for example, ten universes, you would exist simultaneously in all of them.

Simply by perceiving “I am here,” the universe around you manifests. This is known as the Many-Worlds Interpretation.
Even decisions that are made from time to time create other worlds, because it is not limited to changing the past to create another timeline; rather, every decision that is made creates other possible worlds. Thus, every decision produces worlds.

Therefore, timelines — or what are called parallel worlds — originate from the study of quantum mechanics and quantum states as vectors that are orthogonal to one another within an infinite-dimensional Hilbert space. Anything in a new branch would be orthogonal to the previous branch.

In quantum mechanics, basis elements refer to states that form a complete set, meaning any state of a system can be expressed as a linear combination of these basis states.

In some cases, such as a particle in a one-dimensional box, the basis elements can be discrete and finite. However, in other cases, such as a particle in free space, the basis elements can be infinite.
To obtain an infinite number of basis elements in quantum mechanics, one usually uses the concept of momentum eigenstates or plane waves. These states are characterized by definite momentum values and are represented by the wave function Ψ(p), where p is momentum. The set of all possible momentum eigenstates forms an infinite basis for the system.
Even the relevant scan refers to “chou-kuu-kan”, which means hyper-space, and the way it works — absorbing all light — is literally within the context of super-gravity and hyperspace. The basis elements within it are infinite due to the previous scans we have regarding how Ψ(p) functions.

The red circle at the bottom left represents p.
To achieve an infinite number of basis elements in quantum mechanics, one usually uses momentum eigenstates or plane waves. These states have definite momentum values and are represented by the wave function Ψ(p).

Hyperspace is often considered infinite-dimensional because it contains an infinite number of degrees of freedom. In physics, degrees of freedom refer to the number of independent parameters or variables required to describe the state of a system.

In the context of hyperspace, these degrees of freedom correspond to the different possible values of hyperspatial coordinates, which include both bosonic and fermionic variables.

Bosonic variables obey commutation relations and can take continuous values, while fermionic variables obey anticommutation relations and can take discrete values.

Since there is no upper limit to the number of possible values these variables can take, hyperspace is considered infinite-dimensional. This infinite-dimensional nature allows for the rich and complex structure required to formulate supersymmetric theories in physics.




High 1-B.
 
The only thing i think would be correct would be to upgrade Zeno to immeasurable attack speed, his ki crossed a void between timelines to reach Infinite Zamasu in the present, and we see the energy affecting Infinite Zamasu in the present.
Low 1-c and immesurable Jiren looks fine for me
 
Perhaps all of you should know the reason why Jirens obsession with strength. Jiren's parents were slaughtered by a powerful foe, but the boy was spared, rescued by a man who would go on to become his master. From that day on, Jiren devoted himself to the path of righteous power, determined to forge himself into a steel wall no marauder could break. In time he made friends, a new community, and he followed his master's ways. Then, the same villain returned. Jiren and his new brothers in arms' stood against him. The boy was sure that this time, they would win. But the foe was too strong, and Jiren watched as his friends were slain one by one. Even Jiren's master lost his life in the merciless battle. Jiren tried to regroup and keep fighting, but, none of the other students would join him. With no hope of rescue, the people of his land were forced to submit to this cruel conquerer, and Jiren was left all alone. Jiren suffered untold grief when those he trusted walked away and betrayed their principles for the easier path. After that, his view of the world changed. He gave up trusting anyone. As he saw it there was only one great truth; that might, makes right. And that sheer strength determines all. Only victories assure allegiance. Subdue, and others will follow. Having feelings just gets in the way. I have become enamoured with his singular resolve. This colossal yearning for strength built on a bedrock of suffering, and desolation.
 
Dude, that scan is literally from the one used in his justifications for the eventual 5D rating. What the hell are you talking about? 😭🙏 "Low Multiverse level, eventually Low Complex Multiverse level (As stated by both Gowasu and Beerus, Zamasu in this state was becoming one with Universe 7 and the hypertimeline; overriding its law and order." You are arguing about something accepted, which you can... but like that's kinda weird and feels like you are just arguing with me to complain now?
Scan says something completely different than justification. It didn't mention hypertimeline. Just like scan later in justification we have attached Zamasu's faces with no context. I think CRT should be opened for it.
Literally uses headcanons
Sure lil bro. If repeating info from anime and providing scans you call headcanons.

You are STILL not giving me any reasons WHY he wouldn't merge with the present timeline.
Jeez why you all are so dense oh my god...
It's not that he wouldn't and don't want to. He got erased before he had a chance to merge with anything. Otherwise present timeline would be erased both with Zamasu if he merged with it. But nothing in the present got erased so he merged with NOTHING.
You are constantly dodging my argument. What is this 'which may mean absolutely everything' here? You are being vague and trying to change the meaning of words without explaining anything.
Your argument is "Zamasu merged with timeline because he affects the present". I am showing you that he was keep merging with universe and Zeno erased him before he reached timeline itself, you are calling it headcanons. Am I on TikTok or VSBW?
You are saying he uses Time Rift, but HOW? Black did that via TIME RING. How did IZ have that? He is literally abstract, and his body is gone. He functionally cannot do that because Time Rift was closed, and he doesn't have that; otherwise, it would be mentioned in his profile.
Looks like we gonna pretend now as if time rings are the only way to travel between timelines. Sorry Bulma, you got debunked by this beautiful wonderful smart person right there.
Cool argument... ONLY if he didn't. But he did, and I don't care about what-if scenarios
So you made your reply and instead of providing a proof I asked you for, you decided to write that... Alright.



I think have enough of this thread for some time. Literally anything I bring from the main source is rejected here.

Bulma says universe has an edge and center.
You all: NOOO! UNIVERSE IS INFINITE! GUIDEBOOKS SAY SO! BULMA KNOWS NOTHING!

Gowasu says Zamasu is trying to merge with universe.
You all: THAT'S NOT TRUE! HE MERGED WITH TIMELINE! BEERUS SAID SOMETHING IS AFFECTING PRESENT! IT'S THE ULTIMATE PROOF AND YOU ARE HEADCANONING

Zamasu forcefully opens time rift exactly in same place Goku Black arrived. Which may suggest he reopened connection earlier established by Black.
You all: THAT'S NOT THE SAME! HE IS ONE WITH TIMELINE! THE HYPERTIMELINE EVEN!

Yeah, I think I am done. That's my last reply. Believe in whatever you want. I don't care anymore. Bye
 
So... you keep using the guide we told you several times isn't canon and show you it is just the editors' headcanon, like "Toriyama never shows how planet destruction works, so watch Star Trek!".
Since when RPG guide isn't canon? Yeah, it has some overthinking, some mistakes etc, but by this logic you can say that any DB guide isn't canon, even Daizenshu
 
Jiren doesn't scale with what i said, only Zeno does.
Jiren>Infinite Zamasu, since suppresed Jiren was stated to be above any opponent Goku and co. has encountered before(which logicaly would include Infinite Zamasu) by Kaioshin and Whis agrees with this. The same thing was stated by narrator in several episode, producer Hiroyuka Sakurada, Goku(he states he never felt the energy so strong before, which would include Infinite Zamasu), Shonen Jump(DB史上最強の敵に - Strongest enemy in DB history), promotion material("「力の大会」の激しい戦いの中、 最強の敵に立ち 向かうべく、今まさに新たな境地に目覚めよう とする悟空の姿です!" - "In the fierce battle of the "Tournament of Power", Goku is about to awaken to a new state in order to face the strongest enemy!"), and one episode title("The ultimate enemy"). And that's pretty consistent and narrativly logical, since Jiren's power was hyped for an entire ToP arc by being enourmous in comparison to anything(except Zen-o, his guardiand and angels) and being an entirely new lvl.
Note: All of this is based of pure scans I have, I'm currently trying to get my imgure unbanned or get an alternative site to post scans here.
 
Jiren>Infinite Zamasu, since suppresed Jiren was stated to be above any opponent Goku and co. has encountered before(which logicaly would include Infinite Zamasu) by Kaioshin and Whis agrees with this. The same thing was stated by narrator in several episode, producer Hiroyuka Sakurada, Goku(he states he never felt the energy so strong before, which would include Infinite Zamasu), Shonen Jump(DB史上最強の敵に - Strongest enemy in DB history), promotion material("「力の大会」の激しい戦いの中、 最強の敵に立ち 向かうべく、今まさに新たな境地に目覚めよう とする悟空の姿です!" - "In the fierce battle of the "Tournament of Power", Goku is about to awaken to a new state in order to face the strongest enemy!"), and one episode title("The ultimate enemy"). And that's pretty consistent and narrativly logical, since Jiren's power was hyped for an entire ToP arc by being enourmous in comparison to anything(except Zen-o, his guardiand and angels) and being an entirely new lvl.
Note: All of this is based of pure scans I have, I'm currently trying to get my imgure unbanned or get an alternative site to post scans here.
Hyperbole and fallacies
 
Scan says something completely different than justification. It didn't mention hypertimeline. Just like scan later in justification we have attached Zamasu's faces with no context. I think CRT should be opened for it.

Sure lil bro. If repeating info from anime and providing scans you call headcanons.


Jeez why you all are so dense oh my god...
It's not that he wouldn't and don't want to. He got erased before he had a chance to merge with anything. Otherwise present timeline would be erased both with Zamasu if he merged with it. But nothing in the present got erased so he merged with NOTHING.

Your argument is "Zamasu merged with timeline because he affects the present". I am showing you that he was keep merging with universe and Zeno erased him before he reached timeline itself, you are calling it headcanons. Am I on TikTok or VSBW?

Looks like we gonna pretend now as if time rings are the only way to travel between timelines. Sorry Bulma, you got debunked by this beautiful wonderful smart person right there.

So you made your reply and instead of providing a proof I asked you for, you decided to write that... Alright.



I think have enough of this thread for some time. Literally anything I bring from the main source is rejected here.

Bulma says universe has an edge and center.
You all: NOOO! UNIVERSE IS INFINITE! GUIDEBOOKS SAY SO! BULMA KNOWS NOTHING!

Gowasu says Zamasu is trying to merge with universe.
You all: THAT'S NOT TRUE! HE MERGED WITH TIMELINE! BEERUS SAID SOMETHING IS AFFECTING PRESENT! IT'S THE ULTIMATE PROOF AND YOU ARE HEADCANONING

Zamasu forcefully opens time rift exactly in same place Goku Black arrived. Which may suggest he reopened connection earlier established by Black.
You all: THAT'S NOT THE SAME! HE IS ONE WITH TIMELINE! THE HYPERTIMELINE EVEN!

Yeah, I think I am done. That's my last reply. Believe in whatever you want. I don't care anymore. Bye
I have a question for you. Do you think that Toei universe is infinite?
 
Eventually L1C no. No one scales to that version. You need explicit proof. Proof they could have fought that version too. Proof they didn't need Zeno. Goku vegeta and anyone else is not L1C, unless you have scans to prove they could have won , then go ahead and send it.


That dude who made all those db threads would destroy you in a 1v1 if you keep having takes like this
 
High 1-B.
c3e56374ec865a676d01936ca4888770.jpg
 
Since when RPG guide isn't canon? Yeah, it has some overthinking, some mistakes etc, but by this logic you can say that any DB guide isn't canon, even Daizenshu
No, it's not even close. Editors of the guide have stated things like watch other non-related works to see how it might've worked in Dragon Ball because Toriyama never explained it, said thheir numbers aren't entirely accurate but a compilation of questions they've asked, what they readed in the manga and what Japanese and English videos or what fans thought and they even said SSJ multiplier is just 2,5x base, that the speed for character shall not go above Match 20 or that no character can be above SoL except space machines because they have a technology that makes them massless.

It's just a bunch of Dragon Ball fans explaining a compilation of their knowledge, what they read, what they saw on the red and what they asked to other fans to create a D&D-like book that helps for world creation and fills the gaps of DB that cannot be explained with IRL physics with headcanon and it includes inaccurate information as if it were nothing and do not claim to be completely accurate, just fix things so they can work with it in a game.
 
Also why are we still dragging bulma's arguments into 2026? It's crystal clear that bulma didn't know what she was talking about lmfao

Jaco who has been constantly travelling through the entire universe for decades vs PRESENT bulma who had to rely on FUTURE Bulma's notes to create the time machine because at the time (The present) Bulma had very limited knowledge about time-travel, and I think even pilaf pulled an a** pull that made bulma finish constructing the whole thing, so yeah it's still sad knowing that people this use this outdated, continuously debunked argument, and the Low 1-C thread should absolutely not be reopened again it's been already concluded.
 
Does anyone here have any objection to this, or should I open a thread about it soon?
And you in particular—despite using a picture of Goku—you don’t actually know anything about Dragon Ball. You constantly belittle the series because the nonsense you’ve absorbed from here has settled in your mind. They taught you that Dragon Ball does not go beyond 5D, and you’re not the only one.
 
Does anyone here have any objection to this, or should I open a thread about it soon?
And you in particular—despite using a picture of Goku—you don’t actually know anything about Dragon Ball. You constantly belittle the series because the nonsense you’ve absorbed from here has settled in your mind. They taught you that Dragon Ball does not go beyond 5D, and you’re not the only one.
"You belittle the series"-Proceeds to belittle the user based on your own convictions
 
Dragon Ball Super cosmology: Low 1-A.
Dragon Ball Heroes cosmology: 1-A.
And soon it will be upgraded to this level as well—I’m here for that.
 
No, it's not even close. Editors of the guide have stated things like watch other non-related works to see how it might've worked in Dragon Ball because Toriyama never explained it, said thheir numbers aren't entirely accurate but a compilation of questions they've asked, what they readed in the manga and what Japanese and English videos or what fans thought and they even said SSJ multiplier is just 2,5x base, that the speed for character shall not go above Match 20 or that no character can be above SoL except space machines because they have a technology that makes them massless.

It's just a bunch of Dragon Ball fans explaining a compilation of their knowledge, what they read, what they saw on the red and what they asked to other fans to create a D&D-like book that helps for world creation and fills the gaps of DB that cannot be explained with IRL physics with headcanon and it includes inaccurate information as if it were nothing and do not claim to be completely accurate, just fix things so they can work with it in a game.
Tbf, even Daizenshu has some information and number issues(like it states Goku's pl is just 8000, when in anime and manga it's beyond 8000). Also this guide in the first chapter states that characters can move at relativistic and faster speeds, at the point where they don't need spaceships for travel(except space travel for long distances), so this kind of things are for only in-game, they even state that there are no real pl for characters cuz we can't even measure their power, which is the same thing as in Daizenshu. Also this rpg guide has Shueisha and Toei copyright, so it's kinda canon at this point.
 
Also why are we still dragging bulma's arguments into 2026? It's crystal clear that bulma didn't know what she was talking about lmfao

Jaco who has been constantly travelling through the entire universe for decades vs PRESENT bulma who had to rely on FUTURE Bulma's notes to create the time machine because at the time (The present) Bulma had very limited knowledge about time-travel, and I think even pilaf pulled an a** pull that made bulma finish constructing the whole thing, so yeah it's still sad knowing that people this use this outdated, continuously debunked argument, and the Low 1-C thread should absolutely not be reopened again it's been already concluded.
What can do? Those are the opponents' best arguments (apart from the universe having only four galaxies) 🤣🤣
 
Does anyone here have any objection to this, or should I open a thread about it soon?
And you in particular—despite using a picture of Goku—you don’t actually know anything about Dragon Ball. You constantly belittle the series because the nonsense you’ve absorbed from here has settled in your mind. They taught you that Dragon Ball does not go beyond 5D, and you’re not the only one.
You've just met us, soon you'll join the CRTs where we create works of art about DB. We are the greatest experts on DB, so respect your older brother there.
 
.... good luck with that 👍

I think Canon Super: 5D
Heroes: 6D
Thank you.

So far, I am honestly still standing by what I said.

Dragon Ball Super cosmology:

– Type 3 multiverse: High 1-B
– Other World (Afterlife): Low 1-A

This is what I see as the most appropriate classification for Super.
As for Heroes, it deserves 1-A due to the existence of the Beat World, where the characters view the entire Dragon Ball franchise as nothing more than fiction and mere games, not something real. We already have many pieces of evidence that confirm this.
 
.... good luck with that 👍

I think Canon Super: 5D
Heroes: 6D
Well, I have two metas for DB scaling:
1 - Outerversal meta with Afterlife/ r>f Tori-bot. For them it's pretty good, but considering the fact someone would probably mention saiyan saga time or any other thing that Toriyama clearly retconed, I think it needs some time and preparations for this wiki, since it's too strict for DB in this moment, but some time, some time(I'll try to create CRT for them, but later, maybe a month or smth).
2 - Dimension bound meta with 7-8D Crack of Time.
 
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