Kama Profile Revamp (For the third time)

[BreezeHM]

Introduction

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Happy New Year Everyone.

Now that the Servant Physiology and Divine Spirit Physiology Thread is concluded, I can remake the old CRT, that became inactive due to various reasons. I've taken the feedback from the previous CRT, thank you those who participated.

Old Profile

New Profile

Changes

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• Formatting to make it easy on the eyes
• Japanese scans changed to English Scans
• Keys for Chaldea Servant and Beast III/Lapse
• Removed Supernatural Luck as it's already in the Servant Physiology Page.
• Corruption (Type 2) changed to Empathic Manipulation
• "higher" in statistics upon evolution in second key.
• 1-C with Noble Phantasms in First Key
• Immeasurable Speed with Noble Phantasm in First Key
• Removed resistances that belong in the Divine Spirit Physiology Page.
• Omnipresence within her Universe
• Nonexistent Physiology has been updated (Type 2 changed to Type 1, with Aspect Types)
• Large Size Type 8
• Removed Abstract Existence Type 2
• Multiple Selves
• Life and Death Manipulation removed as it was a reference to her authority over the Space instead of a literal interpretation.
• Removed Teleportation as she wasn't teleporting but just had many selves.
• Removed Acausality Type 3 - Multilocation fits the ability better
• Divine Spirit Abilities have been removed as they are on Divine Spirit Physiology

 

[Tipoima]

A year of CRTs, only for Kama to still have 1-C.
What a joke.

 

[BreezeHM]

A year of CRTs, only for Kama to still have 1-C.
What a joke.

What are you dissatisfied with exactly?

 

[Tipoima]

What are you dissatisfied with exactly?

Does it not bother you? At all? The idea of "ah, yes, Kama can pull out a 1-C attack out of her ass"? Same Kama who looked at Gilles de Rais's monster thing in OC1 and went "yea, no, I don't have the firepower for that"?

 

[BreezeHM]

Does it not bother you? At all? The idea of "ah, yes, Kama can pull out a 1-C attack out of her ass"? Same Kama who looked at Gilles de Rais's monster thing in OC1 and went "yea, no, I don't have the firepower for that"?

I see your point, but that can be fixed.

Her scan for her Tier 1 Noble Phantasm says that

Having Affectionate Love and Withering Means To Have Not Loved Passionately.

This is in reference to the Sammohana, the flower arrow that the Kama, the god of love, possessed. It has the effect of inspiring feelings of love in whomever it strikes. When her Ananga and Mara characteristics are most prominent, the arrow of love itself becomes Kama's lost physical body.

It should only apply to her Third Ascension Noble Phantasm, Saṃsāra Kama and not Kama Sammohana. During OC1, Kama couldn't enter her Third Ascension until BB did her stuff, so her not having enough power to destroy the Gilles's monster makes sense.

Although her Alter-Ego manifestation cannot handle Shiva's flames, which is why she burnt herself up afterwards. I suppose we may need to make a separate key for her Third Ascension.

 

[Lycoris4812]

Peak post-resurrection pic.

 

[Tipoima]

You're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
"Kama can jump 5 tiers with her NP!..but in the story she was just never in the state to use it. And when she was she still only beat Kali because of hax rather than raw AP (Kali is 1-C, I guess!). But her Beast version is always that strong!..except she still doesn't perform at that level."

And the "the arrow of love itself becomes Kama's lost physical body" justification still doesn't make sense in the first place.

 

[BreezeHM]

You're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
"Kama can jump 5 tiers with her NP!..but in the story she was just never in the state to use it. And when she was she still only beat Kali because of hax rather than raw AP (Kali is 1-C, I guess!). But her Beast version is always that strong!..except she still doesn't perform at that level."

Because Kali was going on a tantrum for husband, Shiva. Kama burning from the flames of Shiva gave her exactly what she wanted, because that's literally Kama's nature to give love. All of which you said is irrelevant to her own Noble Phantasm rating.

And the "the arrow of love itself becomes Kama's lost physical body" justification still doesn't make sense in the first place.

That's literally her Noble Phantasm.

 

[Tipoima]

Because Kali was going on a tantrum for husband, Shiva. Kama burning from the flames of Shiva gave her exactly what she wanted, because that's literally Kama's nature to give love. All of which you said is irrelevant to her own Noble Phantasm rating.

I am telling you, if Kama had a 1-C NP she would've absolutely just blasted Kali with it. Kama is lazy, and her NP is still "giving love" so it's not out of character no matter how you spin it.
"Burning herself alive to abuse mythological hax" is something Kama would only do if she had no other way to win. Leading to an obvious conclusion of "her NP is not actually 1-C or anywhere close to that".

That's literally her Noble Phantasm.

It being justification for 1-C is what doesn't make sense.
She shoots her lost physical body at the target. Okay. That's 9-C by itself. Her original body didn't have any of the Ananga properties, it wasn't anything crazy like Greek's Aletheia, so in no way does it scale to ******* complex multiversal.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

there's no way we have another wankbreaker already

 

[BreezeHM]

I am telling you, if Kama had a 1-C NP she would've absolutely just blasted Kali with it. Kama is lazy, and her NP is still "giving love" so it's not out of character no matter how you spin it.
"Burning herself alive to abuse mythological hax" is something Kama would only do if she had no other way to win. Leading to an obvious conclusion of "her NP is not actually 1-C or anywhere close to that".

Love is different for each individual, What Kali wanted was Shiva. Blasting her with her Noble Phantasm would give her love, but not the love that Kali wants. Literally the reason why she has "infinite selves" is so she can give love to each individual and their preferences.

If you look at the dialogue:

Kama There we go. Finally, the form I've been waiting for.
Kama I am Ananga, the formless one, who burned to ash in the flames that will do the same to the whole universe.
Kali All I want is Shiva! My beloved husband!

Kama It's okay. I'm willing and able to help you with that. I can satisfy aaall your desires, no matter what they are.

Kama This may not be the real Shiva, but...hehe, that won't matter once you're satisfied.

It's pretty clear what Kama intended to do. You're inventing the extra assumption when clearly, the situation did not require it.

It being justification for 1-C is what doesn't make sense.
She shoots her lost physical body at the target. Okay. That's 9-C by itself. Her original body didn't have any of the Ananga properties, it wasn't anything crazy like Greek's Aletheia, so in no way does it scale to ******* complex multiversal.

9-C gods?

 

[Vietthai96]

I don't understand why the talk about tier here, it is still outdated and we still not even revise the verse cosmology so talking about it is pointless

Anyway
1. Higher-Dimensional Manipulation should be changed to Limited Dimensional Manipulation, HDM isn't a thing anymore and control space with more than 3 dimensions is Limited Dimensional Manipulation
2. Information Manipulation, Mind Manipulation don't have Type
3. Limited Resistance Negation should be changed into Resistance Reduction, negation mean a complete nullification of resistance, or you can completely ignore it

 

[BreezeHM]

I don't understand why the talk about tier here, it is still outdated and we still not even revise the verse cosmology so talking about it is pointless

Anyway
1. Higher-Dimensional Manipulation should be changed to Limited Dimensional Manipulation, HDM isn't a thing anymore and control space with more than 3 dimensions is Limited Dimensional Manipulation
2. Information Manipulation, Mind Manipulation don't have Type
3. Limited Resistance Negation should be changed into Resistance Reduction, negation mean a complete nullification of resistance, or you can completely ignore it

Done.

 

[Tipoima]

there's no way we have another wankbreaker already

I've been here all along, thank you very much. Not my fault nobody here learned what a "sanity check" is.

Love is different for each individual, What Kali wanted was Shiva. Blasting her with her Noble Phantasm would give her love, but not the love that Kali wants.

Ah yes, because in Ooku Kama really cared about what kind of love people wanted.
See, here you can see the sanity check fail miserably, so you're twisting Kama's characterization into a pretzel to justify her not using overwhelming firepower that would make even Maris shit itself.
Not that it matter - you put Kama Sammohana at 1-C too.

9-C gods?

Throwing a body at someone is 9-C if not lower. Said body belonging to a god does not automatically make the attack more powerful. It's the profile's job to justify that.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

I've been here all along, thank you very much. Not my fault nobody here learned what a "sanity check" is.

Chill out bruh you're not that guy

 

[BreezeHM]

Ah yes, because in Ooku Kama really cared about what kind of love people wanted.
See, here you can see the sanity check fail miserably, so you're twisting Kama's characterization into a pretzel to justify her not using overwhelming firepower that would make even Maris shit itself.

The text is literally right there, there's no way you can twist it that Kama should've blasted her with her Noble Phantasm.

Not that it matter - you put Kama Sammohana at 1-C too.

Although her Alter-Ego manifestation cannot handle Shiva's flames, which is why she burnt herself up afterwards. I suppose we may need to make a separate key for her Third Ascension.

Which is why I made a key for her Ananga self.

Throwing a body at someone is 9-C if not lower. Said body belonging to a god does not automatically make the attack more powerful. It's the profile's job to justify that.

Kama before she got erased by Shiva already possessed a 1-C Body. Kama then got incinerated by Shiva's Flame, leaving her as an Incorporeal god, meaning she "exists" as post-physical, formless state. Saṃsāra Kama uses her lost physical body, the one that was burnt by Shiva as the arrow as explained here:

Saṃsāra Kama: The other form of the arrow of flowers, Sammohana. In the case in which her nature as "The One without Body" and "The Bewilderer" manifests strongly, her lost body itself is interpreted as the arrow of love. It is a depraved love that is akin to the endless cycle of reincarnation.

Though I also feel like it could be Interpreted as Kama herself acting in her current formless state, with the ‘lost body’ serving as a conceptual interpretation of the attack rather than a separate entity.

I'll wait for more input.

 

[Vietthai96]

Limited Higher-Dimensional Manipulation

It is Limited Dimensional Manipulation, not Limited Higher-Dimensional Manipulation

Limited Resistance Reduction

Remove the Limited

Superhuman Physical Characteristics

I feel like this is redundant because Servant Physiology and later Divine Spirit Physiology already have this. Unless Kama have her own justification for SPC outside of these physiologies

Saṃsāra Kama (Type 8: The target rests eternally within Kama's universe)

I think you could write like this

Saṃsāra Kama (Type 8: The target rests eternally within Kama's universe, which is Kama's lost physical body)

This look better to me since reading your justification seem really confusing on why Kama have Large Size Type 8

The rest is oke from a glance

 

[Tipoima]

The text is literally right there, there's no way you can twist it that Kama should've blasted her with her Noble Phantasm.

All the text says does is explain "how", not "why".

Kama before she got erased by Shiva already possessed a 1-C Body.

Source? If original Kama already had a 1-C body then what the hell is Shiva's tier then?

And even if it somehow is, there's no justification for how it translates into AP. "Attacking" someone with a 5-C character wouldn't be the same as dropping the Moon on them, and at these high tiers it isn't even clear how one would use a body as an arrow.
And all of that only matters if that description is meant to be literal.

 

[HigashikataJobin]

All the text says does is explain "how", not "why".


Source? If original Kama already had a 1-C body then what the hell is Shiva's tier then?

And even if it somehow is, there's no justification for how it translates into AP. "Attacking" someone with a 5-C character wouldn't be the same as dropping the Moon on them, and at these high tiers it isn't even clear how one would use a body as an arrow.
And all of that only matters if that description is meant to be literal.

Discussing tier here is useless. The entire verse is under revisions.

 

[HigashikataJobin]

And 1-C tiering will likely be removed after said revisions anyway.

 

[Re5yh]

Agree with rework

 

[DaReaperMan]

Rework looks good

 

[Random-Helper323]

Let's all try to keep a calm and civil tone here.

 

[BreezeHM]

Got a little busy with some irl matters, coming back to this.

I feel like this is redundant because Servant Physiology and later Divine Spirit Physiology already have this. Unless Kama have her own justification for SPC outside of these physiologies

Superhuman Characteristics must be on every page

snip

I've applied the changes to the sandbox.

Viet has told me offsite that he doesn't want to comment on the NP Tiering due to the verse revisions, and @HigashikataJobin appears to have the same opinion.

I see no value in holding up the thread for a NP rating, so I will change it to unknown, and revisit after the revision (if 1-C somehow stays)

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Viet has told me offsite that he doesn't want to comment on the NP Tiering due to the verse revisions, and @HigashikataJobin appears to have the same opinion.

I see no value in holding up the thread for a NP rating, so I will change it to unknown, and revisit after the revision (if 1-C somehow stays)

I personally think you should leave it for now (removing a Tiering Rating is kind of a big deal) and just let it be an outdated rating until the revisions are made.

It's not like your thread was even about Kama's tiering in the first place.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

All the text says does is explain "how", not "why".


Source? If original Kama already had a 1-C body then what the hell is Shiva's tier then?

And even if it somehow is, there's no justification for how it translates into AP. "Attacking" someone with a 5-C character wouldn't be the same as dropping the Moon on them, and at these high tiers it isn't even clear how one would use a body as an arrow.
And all of that only matters if that description is meant to be literal.

icl half of nasu profiles rn lack a lot of scans, it isnt just this one, so wait for the re works imo

either way agree

 

[Black-san112]

bump

 

[Reiner04]

Thread looks good

 

[BreezeHM]

Two agrees, will apply the changes tomorrow if there are no problems.

 

[BreezeHM]

Kama (Fate)

Kama (カーマ, Kāma?) or Mara (マーラ, Māra?), also known as Beast III/L or Beast III/Lapse, is a Beast-class Servant appearing in Fate/Grand Order. She is the counterpart to Beast III/R. She appeared in Tokugawa Kaiten Meikyū - Ōoku. Kama is an incarnation of love towards others that "exhausts the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Changes applied, this can be closed.

 

[Reiner04]

Closing wank