All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

[ThiboGaleotti]

Yeah? If a story is a sequel of another story, then all events of the former story are canon to the sequel. That's literally what continuity means.

If DBZ Kai added one scene, why would DBS Anime, which is a continuation, not take that scene in account when elaborating the plot? Your point of view is just creating a mess on the whole plot. You're asking for an enormous and unnecessary amount of proof just to acknowledge the simplest thing of all: DBS Anime is a continuation of another story. Then, the events of the previous story also happened in DBS Anime in the past. So, they're canon to DBS Anime.

People have told you countless examples of stories that are "filler" that does not appear in the manga, yet are canon to DBS Anime, also retcons to the scenario of the manga like Trunks getting SSJ after seeing Gohan dying, while in the Manga he had it. So, yeah, all what you call "filler" is just canon to DBS Anime. You don't need an explicit mention of every single difference between manga and anime in every single sequel just to confirm that it is canon on the sequel. That'd be, from a non-powerscaling pov, just a waste of money and time.

If someone's looking at a story, then they look at its sequel, of course they're gonna take the prequel content as canon. Same as when you watch a Season 2 of a Series you take what happened in Season 1 as canon. Even if it doesn't fit the original material from the original source where the references for the series were taken.

You yourself admitted Manga and Anime were different continuities long ago on this very thread. Different continuities have different turns of events. That's what you're calling "filler"; which doesn't make it less valid when talking about the continuity where said "filler" takes place. In fact, said filler; said differences with the original work, is what allows anyone to differenciate between continuities. And what allows, among other things, to make separate profiles of the characters here in the wiki.

So, yeah. As everyone has been telling to you up until now: all events of DBZ Kai, regardless how you clasify them, are canon to DBS Anime. And it'll continue to be like that unless you show some reliable evidence that's not just repeating the word filler and hope we agree with you

Ok let's stop there
You guys are already finished

 

[ThiboGaleotti]

Yeah? If a story is a sequel of another story, then all events of the former story are canon to the sequel. That's literally what continuity means.

If DBZ Kai added one scene, why would DBS Anime, which is a continuation, not take that scene in account when elaborating the plot? Your point of view is just creating a mess on the whole plot. You're asking for an enormous and unnecessary amount of proof just to acknowledge the simplest thing of all: DBS Anime is a continuation of another story. Then, the events of the previous story also happened in DBS Anime in the past. So, they're canon to DBS Anime.

People have told you countless examples of stories that are "filler" that does not appear in the manga, yet are canon to DBS Anime, also retcons to the scenario of the manga like Trunks getting SSJ after seeing Gohan dying, while in the Manga he had it. So, yeah, all what you call "filler" is just canon to DBS Anime. You don't need an explicit mention of every single difference between manga and anime in every single sequel just to confirm that it is canon on the sequel. That'd be, from a non-powerscaling pov, just a waste of money and time.

If someone's looking at a story, then they look at its sequel, of course they're gonna take the prequel content as canon. Same as when you watch a Season 2 of a Series you take what happened in Season 1 as canon. Even if it doesn't fit the original material from the original source where the references for the series were taken.

You yourself admitted Manga and Anime were different continuities long ago on this very thread. Different continuities have different turns of events. That's what you're calling "filler"; which doesn't make it less valid when talking about the continuity where said "filler" takes place. In fact, said filler; said differences with the original work, is what allows anyone to differenciate between continuities. And what allows, among other things, to make separate profiles of the characters here in the wiki.

So, yeah. As everyone has been telling to you up until now: all events of DBZ Kai, regardless how you clasify them, are canon to DBS Anime. And it'll continue to be like that unless you show some reliable evidence that's not just repeating the word filler and hope we agree with you

Anyway, that's the last comment I'll make about this matter, unless you actually bring evidence.

Oh, and in case you end up making a CRT to change the wiki stance on DBS Anime canonicity, keep in mind to follow Discussion Rules

DBZ KAi is not an original source, okay? This is the adaptation of the adaptation of the manga
And this is adaptation containts fillers

It's not bc DBS Anime uses DBZ Kai and even one filler that ALL DBZ kai's fillers are canon bc those fillers are FIRST and above all DBZ ANime's fillers

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

I thought you wanted to stop? Anyway, please if you're gonna answer something, do it on a single comment. And make sure you read  everything before responding. Because I already took in account DBZ Kai is not the original source. And it doesn't matter.

Such as how for the Prime Video serkes of Invincible it doesn't matter that Comics is the original source, because it is a different continuity, with its own way to tell the story, potray the characters and all.

That being said, i'll refrain to trying to explain it more simply to you.

 

[ThiboGaleotti]

I thought you wanted to stop? Anyway, please if you're gonna answer something, do it on a single comment. And make sure you read  everything before responding. Because I already took in account DBZ Kai is not the original source. And it doesn't matter.

Such as how for the Prime Video serkes of Invincible it doesn't matter that Comics is the original source, because it is a different continuity, with its own way to tell the story, potray the characters and all.

That being said, i'll refrain to trying to explain it more simply to you.

And i'm trying to explain that you are in the wrong but you don't understand

DBS Anime being a continuation of DBZ Kai don't mean that all the fillers added in DBZ Kai are canon in DBS. Because first DBS is not even a DBZ Kai continuation and second, and above all, they are FILLERS. DBS Anime using ONE filler don't prove that all fillers from DBZ Kai, such as King Vegeta's feat, are canon. This feats need to be APPROVED because they are and they will ever be no-original contents

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Here's the scene where that line comes from in english (3:00).

Thank you very much, I'll show this to a friend of mine who will go crazy when he sees it.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Hmmm so you big brain is actualy saying that i need evidence to prove that "DBZ Kai being Canon to DBS Anime don't prove that all the fillers found in DBZ Kai are Canon to DBS Anime".
?????

Watch what you say, it could get you banned.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Watch what you say, it could get you banned.

Not really? "You big brain" is such a minor offense Bro.

So you think that "Even if DBS Anime is a continuation of DBZ Kai, this don't made ALL filler scenes added in DBZ Kai CANON to DBS until proven otherwise." is false?

You be correct yeah, the line of thinking is not valid.

Like, this only works If you don't think DBS anime is a continuation of DBZ Kai.

You overcomplicate this too much.

 

[Fezzih_007]

And i'm trying to explain that you are in the wrong but you don't understand

You really not. All you arguments involve you Affirming a disjunct. You say that the site is wrong doing things a way, Person01 explain WHY we do things that way, but you don't explain what's wrong with the argument, and just say it is wrong, and say we should go the other way, when the way we do things already works fine.

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

Not really? "You big brain" is such a minor offense Bro.

You be correct yeah, the line of thinking is not valid.

Like, this only works If you don't think DBS anime is a continuation of DBZ Kai.

You overcomplicate this too much.

I wouldn’t say it’s a minor offence. That phrase has negative connotations and I’m pretty sure the definition itself is opposite to what it conveys. It’s insulting someone’s intelligence is it not? But more of in a sarcastic tone. IIRC the user has said it more than once and needs to stop since he could be warned. Might not be ban worthy but it’s still highly disrespectful.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Yeah I agree is disrespectful, but I don't think is ban worthy.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Not really? "You big brain" is such a minor offense Bro.

But still wrong

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Honestly, i hear this every day from OPM fans, that the original DBZ episodes are not canon and are just filler. They always disregard DBZ for having done things superior to OPM during the beginning of the anime, such as King Vegeta or Freeza affecting a galaxy. In DBS, for them, it's all hyperbole and fallacies.

 

[ThiboGaleotti]

You really not. All you arguments involve you Affirming a disjunct. You say that the site is wrong doing things a way, Person01 explain WHY we do things that way, but you don't explain what's wrong with the argument, and just say it is wrong, and say we should go the other way, when the way we do things already works fine.

What do you mean "you just say it is wrong"

I'm saying that a filler is not canon. This is all!

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

What do you mean "you just say it is wrong"

I'm saying that a filler is not canon. This is all!

https://vsbattles.com/threads/uncompositing-the-dragon-ball-cosmology.157344/post-5987913

 

[StekFence]

What do you mean "you just say it is wrong"

I'm saying that a filler is not canon. This is all!

That is the same. They are saying that the king vegeta thing is not filler, and is canon. You are saying that it is filler, and it’s not canon. So you are saying they are wrong.

Sincerely, if you think this, arguing it here in this specific thread is pointless because it won’t result in any profile changes. For that, you should make a new thread, and then can argue it there.

 

[ThiboGaleotti]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/uncompositing-the-dragon-ball-cosmology.157344/post-5987913

This is better, but you have to admit that he still haven't confirmed that King Vegeta's feat scene is CANON. We don't knows exactly what are Toriyama's ideas (except for few like Gregory's character)

"The parts that don't appear in the original work, are all created based on Akira Toriyama-sensei's ideas" I'm not saying he's lying but Toriyama never confirmed that ALL fillers were his ideas. Like, he never said "It's my idea that King Vegeta destroys three planets in Vegeta's flashback of death".

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Given:

• Future Trunks (Youth) is most likely comparable to the likes of Future Piccolo and Frieza Saga Pre-Zenkai Gohan, who scale to Second Form Frieza;
• Future Gohan, in his normal form, easily outmatches Super Saiyan Future Trunks (Youth);
• Future Gohan did not believe he was as strong as Goku was on Namek, even when he was stronger and had both of his arms;

Frieza Saga Goku should upscale from Second Form Frieza x 50, right?

 

[ThiboGaleotti]

Given:

• Future Trunks (Youth) is most likely comparable to the likes of Future Piccolo and Frieza Saga Pre-Zenkai Gohan, who scale to Second Form Frieza;
• Future Gohan, in his normal form, easily outmatches Super Saiyan Future Trunks (Youth);
• Future Gohan did not believe he was as strong as Goku was on Namek, even when he was stronger and had both of his arms;

Frieza Saga Goku should upscale from Second Form Frieza x 50, right?

You're talking about the Future Trunks who could already fight Future Gohan, who didn't easily outmatched him,? This same Future Gohan who pushed Android 17 to fight seriously?

Sorry, but don't forget that Final Form Frieza crushed Vegeta Zenkai without using 50% of his power.

"Future Gohan did not believe he was as strong as Goku was on Namek" The last Goku he saw IS the Goku who returned from Planet Yadrat, you know? This is NOT Namek Saga Goku. This is a Goku who is stronger than a Future Trunks who was already stronger than Future Gohan. So Goku > Future Gohan yes.

? He is

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The last Goku he saw IS the Goku who returned from Planet Yadrat, you know?

After rereading the chapter, mmm, you're right.

You're talking about the Future Trunks who could already fight Future Gohan, who didn't easily outmatched him,?

He is literally treating Trunks like a baby in the image you embedded. Trunks, as an able-bodied Super Saiyan with both functioning arms, could hardly keep pace with Gohan, who only had one arm to fight with, without nearly exhausting himself. You can compare the difference in the number of sweat beads, if you want.

Sorry, but don't forget that Final Form Frieza crushed Vegeta Zenkai without using 50% of his power.

whatever that's supposed to mean

 

[ThiboGaleotti]

After rereading the chapter, mmm, you're right.

He is literally treating Trunks like a baby in the image you embedded. Trunks, as an able-bodied Super Saiyan with both functioning arms, could hardly keep pace with Gohan, who only had one arm to fight with, without nearly exhausting himself. You can compare the difference in the number of sweat beads, if you want.

whatever that's supposed to mean

Trunks is attacking and Gohan is defending. That's all. Gohan himself is saying that Trunks is doing good

And we see a sweat on Gohan's head

"Sorry, but don't forget that Final Form Frieza crushed Vegeta Zenkai without using 50% of his power."
MEANS that there's already a too big gap

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

This is better, but you have to admit that he still haven't confirmed that King Vegeta's feat scene is CANON. We don't knows exactly what are Toriyama's ideas (except for few like Gregory's character)

"The parts that don't appear in the original work, are all created based on Akira Toriyama-sensei's ideas" I'm not saying he's lying but Toriyama never confirmed that ALL fillers were his ideas. Like, he never said "It's my idea that King Vegeta destroys three planets in Vegeta's flashback of death".

Mate, the only thing you need to understand is that these original episodes you call "filler" are Akira's ideas and they are all canon to the work, unless you bring some evidence proving that they are not or make a CRT to change that, your opinion is not worth much here without a CRT.

 

[ThiboGaleotti]

Mate, the only thing you need to understand is that these original episodes you call "filler" are Akira's ideas and they are all canon to the work, unless you bring some evidence proving that they are not or make a CRT to change that, your opinion is not worth much here without a CRT.

Again. Nobody said or proven that ALL the fillers are Toriyama's works. There are some inconsistencies in the additions, particularly regarding power levels, such as Kid Buu being considered the strongest of the Buus in the anime, even though it's clear that he isn't.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Again. Nobody said or proven that ALL the fillers are Toriyama's works. There are some inconsistencies in the additions, particularly regarding power levels, such as Kid Buu being considered the strongest of the Buus in the anime, even though it's clear that he isn't.

Once again... you have no evidence for your endless fallacies. Kid Buu has always been stronger, which is even confirmed by the manga and Daima.

 

[ThiboGaleotti]

Once again... you have no evidence for your endless fallacies. Kid Buu has always been stronger, which is even confirmed by the manga and Daima.

Again, it's because you guys have no proofs that i don't have one. I'm only answering your takes.

Factually, Toriyama has NEVER confirmed that ALL the additions by Toei Animation were his ideas, including the scene where King Vegeta destroys planets (which is bullshit anyway).

Kid Buu was never the strongest of the Buu forms in Dragon Ball Z. Buuhan is clearly superior. Super Buu was already stronger than both Goku AND Vegeta combined. Buuhan is Super Buu + Ultimate Gohan + Trunks + Goten + Piccolo.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I realised today that Vegeta has more hax than Goku himself. Vegeta is very powerful in the manga, with forced separation, hakai, teleportation, and other abilities.

 

[supertomioka]

What do you mean "you just say it is wrong"

I'm saying that a filler is not canon. This is all!

The problem is you keep calling those scenes "filler" how are they filler in the first place especially when you admitted this↓↓

You yourself admitted Manga and Anime were different continuities long ago on this very thread

Idk what form of mental gymnastics bro will pull

 

[ThiboGaleotti]

The problem is you keep calling those scenes "filler" how are they filler in the first place especially when you admitted this↓↓

Idk what form of mental gymnastics bro will pull

You guys just don't understand

DBZ Kai is not an original source. DBZ Kai's fillers are DBZ anime's fillers, and it's not because DBS must be DBZ's Kai suite that all of those fillers are canon

It's logical

 

[supertomioka]

You guys just don't understand

DBZ Kai is not an original source. DBZ Kai's fillers are DBZ anime's fillers, and it's not because DBS must be DBZ's Kai suite that all of those fillers are canon

It's logical

You don't understand explain why they are "fillers" in the first place while taking account for

You yourself admitted Manga and Anime were different continuities long ago on this very thread

 

[ThiboGaleotti]

You don't understand explain why they are "fillers" in the first place while taking account for

"You yourself admitted Manga and Anime were different continuities long ago on this very thread" i never said that

"You don't understand explain why they are "fillers" in the first place while taking account for"

DBS follows the CANON. DBS Anime is part of the CANON of Dragon Ball. Not DBZ Anime's fillers. Is that clear?

 

[supertomioka]

"You yourself admitted Manga and Anime were different continuities long ago on this very thread" i never said that

"You don't understand explain why they are "fillers" in the first place while taking account for"

DBS follows the CANON. DBS Anime is part of the CANON of Dragon Ball. Not DBZ Anime's fillers. Is that clear?

You keep dodging the obvious question , the thing you keep calling fillers why are they fillers.

 

[RoninSlayer200]

You keep dodging the obvious question , the thing you keep calling fillers why are they fillers.

He keeps saying it's filler because it didn't appear in DBS anime again, so it must be filler.

So dude genuinely wants Vegeta to suddenly dream again about how his father once nuked 3 planets in the past.

"Damn kakarot, I just had a dream of how my father was busting planets like decades ago."

 

[supertomioka]

He keeps saying it's filler because it didn't appear in DBS anime again, so it must be filler.

So dude genuinely wants Vegeta to suddenly dream again about how his father once nuked 3 planets in the past.

"Damn kakarot, I just had a dream of how my father was busting planets like decades ago."

so anything that isn't referenced in dbs is "filler" even though it happened? Help

Him:These scenes are filler.
Reason: They aren’t canon
Why aren’t they canon? Because they’re filler
Why are they filler ? Because they aren't canon.

 

[ThiboGaleotti]

so anything that isn't referenced in dbs is "filler" even though it happened? Help

Why do you keep implanting every fillers in DBS anime? DBS Anime IS canon. If you want to make a filler scene/flashback canon to DBS, then this must be PRESENT IN THE ANIME and that's not the case for King Vegeta's scene.

This is not canon, this is filler because this was never part of DBS

 

[CelestialVortex01]

It's funny how the flashback wasn't even in a filler ep

 

[RoninSlayer200]

It's funny how the flashback wasn't even in a filler ep

When the filler isn't even a filler.

 

[supertomioka]

Why do you keep implanting every fillers in DBS anime? DBS Anime IS canon. If you want to make a filler scene/flashback canon to DBS, then this must be PRESENT IN THE ANIME and that's not the case for King Vegeta's scene.

This is not canon, this is filler because this was never part of DBS

Bro what this is why I wanted you to define what filler was because you clearly don't know how filler works , since when does a sequel dictate what's "canon" and what's "filler" in it's prequel you’re saying super rewrites the whole of z which makes no sense , by your logic things that happened in harry Potter book 3 can be dismissed as "filler" because in book 7 everything wasn't referenced? That's not how continuity works

Now let me ask you one thing if canonicity of z is dependent on the prequel what would you have called these "fillers" before super came ?

 

[ThiboGaleotti]

It's funny how the flashback wasn't even in a filler ep

yeah i said myself later that i was wrong in this, but that's make no difference. That would've be worse, that's all.

 

[ThiboGaleotti]

Bro what this is why I wanted you to define what filler was because you clearly don't know how filler works , since when does a sequel dictate what's "canon" and what's "filler" in it's prequel you’re saying super rewrites the whole of z which makes no sense , by your logic things that happened in harry Potter book 3 can be dismissed as "filler" because in book 7 everything wasn't referenced? That's not how continuity works

Now let me ask you one thing if canonicity of z is dependent on the prequel what would you have called these "fillers" before super came ?

fillers are non-original works. King Vegeta's scene is a FILLER. This is not in the manga and this is not Toriyama's idea until proven otherwise.
DBS being a sequel to DBZ Kai or not don't change one thing. King Vegeta's scene will ALWAYS be a filler we should not take into account until someone confirm that was Toriyama's idea (since the man himself can't anymore).

 

[supertomioka]

fillers are non-original works. King Vegeta's scene is a FILLER. This is not in the manga and this is not Toriyama's idea until proven otherwise.
DBS being a sequel to DBZ Kai or not don't change one thing. King Vegeta's scene will ALWAYS be a filler we should not take into account until someone confirm that was Toriyama's idea (since the man himself can't anymore).

Now you have ran back to " it's not in the manga = filler " when..

You yourself admitted Manga and Anime were different continuities long ago on this very thread