When The Discussion Cries - New Forum

[HigashikataJobin]

I just saw this in Truth profile and I have three questions for that
1. Now, Depths of Oblivion is already the new version, right?
2. So Truths are Smurf High 1-A?
3. If Truth is Smurf High 1-A, Endless nine for both Battler and Goat will be High 1-A Invulnerability since it's unaffected with Knox and Van dine which is Truth too?

1. Yes, but the Truths profile will be reworked.
2. Yes.
3. Yes. Also, Endless Nine is a High 1-A infinite-layered invulnerability smurf hax.

 

[Nekobako]

1. Yes, but the Truths profile will be reworked.
2. Yes.
3. Yes. Also, Endless Nine is a High 1-A infinite-layered invulnerability smurf hax.

It isn't an anti-feat if it's smurf?
Beato created Truth and its rule as High 1-A potency but she was just 1-A at that time or

 

[PristineWater]

It isn't an anti-feat if it's smurf?
Beato created Truth and its rule as High 1-A potency but she was just 1-A at that time or

Beato doesnt create Truth though. Truth is just something Witch can use

 

[MrKerf]

If I recall correctly, Beato did create a concept of Truths, everyone else just abides by them, as they are necessary for the story.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

If I recall correctly, Beato did create a concept of Truths, everyone else just abides by them, as they are necessary for the story.

She didn’t create the concept of truth…

The 'truths' are nothing more than the logical possibilities within a system; what Beato did was create a rule that allowed those logical possibilities to be used as weapons (something all witches can do by the way).

It isn't an anti-feat if it's smurf?
Beato created Truth and its rule as High 1-A potency but she was just 1-A at that time or

Skull

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

And yes, Endless Nine can negate logical possibilities. Sounds broken asf I know.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

She didn’t create the concept of truth…

Actually, Erika is the universal concept of truth and she is a derivation of Bernkastel's essence.

 

[Nekobako]

She didn’t create the concept of truth…

The 'truths' are nothing more than the logical possibilities within a system; what Beato did was create a rule that allowed those logical possibilities to be used as weapons (something all witches can do by the way).

I still don't see why it's smurf and not an anti-feat from that. Even if other witches can do but currently, the potency is based on them/user.

 

[Hasty12345]

And yes, Endless Nine can negate logical possibilities. Sounds broken asf I know.

High 1-A+ type 2 hax potency

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

High 1-A+ type 2 hax potency

I wouldn’t joke about it....

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I still don't see why it's smurf and not an anti-feat from that. Even if other witches can do but currently, the potency is based on them/user.

Even if what you’re saying were true (which it isn’t, Beatrice didn’t create the concept of truth), it still wouldn’t be an 'anti-feat,' because Endless Magic scales to the entire cosmology.

 

[Nekobako]

Even if what you’re saying were true (which it isn’t, Beatrice didn’t create the concept of truth), it still wouldn’t be an 'anti-feat,' because Endless Magic scales to the entire cosmology.

How?

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

How?

No spoilers. The Endless Magic is genuinely the strongest hax in the verse by far (arguably top 2 if we count the Theatergoing compendium).

 

[Nekobako]

No spoilers. The Endless Magic is genuinely the strongest hax in the verse by far (arguably top 2 if we count the Theatergoing compendium).

Ok, I will wait CRT for that even if the profile is already changed.
Also, I forgot that Endless nine needs its own explanation for that potency because chain scaling can be considered as an anti-feat.

 

[Hasty12345]

Do the hax affect the high 1-A plane or just send people there?

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Do the hax affect the high 1-A plane or just send people there?

It depends on what you mean.

If by ‘send there’ you mean a simple, conventional BFR, then neither.

What the truths do is erase all the properties that make up your being at every level to turn you into pure nothingness, and because that erasure is so fundamental, the consequence is that your being falls into the depths.

You can erase everything in that same way, because those fundamental properties of being are what defines the evolutionary journey.

 

[Hasty12345]

It depends on what you mean.

If by ‘send there’ you mean a simple, conventional BFR, then neither.

What the truths do is erase all the properties that make up your being at every level to turn you into pure nothingness, and because that erasure is so fundamental, the consequence is that your being falls into the depths.

You can erase everything in that same way, because those fundamental properties of being are what defines the evolutionary journey.

yeah so that’s just strong af EE, it’s not Smurf.

In Saint Seiya for example, those who are killed go to the UW, we don’t give everyone 2-C Smurf hax for sending people to the UW.

so I’m not sure E9 should be Smurf hax for negating truths, it shouldn’t be a problem.

 

[Nekobako]

I realized more about the Depth of Oblivion
1. Bern can send and bring Erika back from the Depth of Oblivion where is located in the higher layer. How this isn't an anti-feat?
1.2 Erika is considered as a character who came back from the Depth of Oblivion same as Featherine but it didn't make Erika as the strongest being same as Featherine, what's the difference between them?
2. Featherine sent Beato Catbox (I will call it "Ange catbox" instead for the different version from Beato Catbox) to the Depth of Oblivion so should we have another key after CoB manifestation?

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

1. Bern can send and bring Erika back from the Depth of Oblivion where is located in the higher layer. How this isn't an anti-feat?

Bern scales to the entire cosmology.

1.2 Erika is considered as a character who came back from the Depth of Oblivion same as Featherine but it didn't make Erika as the strongest being same as Featherine, what's the difference between them?

I swear you should actually re-read Umineko.

2. Featherine sent Beato Catbox (I will call it "Ange catbox" instead for the different version from Beato Catbox) to the Depth of Oblivion so should we have another key after CoB manifestation?

No.

 

[Nekobako]

I swear you should actually re-read Umineko.

I know that question is dumb but I asked this because it's the result when we put Oblivion into the highest plane that created smurf hax into the Qualitative Superiority system without the supporting system enough to avoid an anti-feat.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I know that this question is dumb but that's the result when we put Oblivion into the highest plane that created smurf hax into the Qualitative Superiority system without the supporting system enough to avoid an anti-feat.

There is no anti-feat. You just don't understand how the cosmology works.

I don't want to write a Bible here so just wait a bit more, I'm gonna write down a sandbox explaining some stuff.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I’m curious, what’s y’all’s take on Rewrite’s canonicity?

I already have a fully formed opinion after thoroughly reading all the material, but I’d like to see what you all think.

 

[MrKerf]

I’m curious, what’s y’all’s take on Rewrite’s canonicity?

I already have a fully formed opinion after thoroughly reading all the material, but I’d like to see what you all think.

I consider it canon fully, but I am always outnumbered T_T

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I consider it canon fully, but I am always outnumbered T_T

Yeah, I actually agree with that.

It’s funny because people usually think there are only one or two connections, when literally the entire game (the eight routes: Kotori, Sizuru, Akane, Lucia, Chihaya, Moon, Terra, and Oppai) is riddled with connections to 07th Expansion, and it’s obvious from a mile away that they share the same worldview.

The counterarguments are either dishonest or just plain bad.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

There were people, for example, saying that taking Okonogi into account was wrong because it was just an ‘anime-only’ reference and that he doesn’t appear in the novel.

Basically, people shouting from the rooftops that they haven’t even read the novel.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Okonogi does indeed appear in the novel tho

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Okonogi does indeed appear in the novel tho

Exactly. He is a member of the Bayern Knights (anti-Gaia faction / Guardian).

That's why I said this:

Basically, people shouting from the rooftops that they haven’t even read the novel.

 

[Hasty12345]

Rewrite’s canonicity?

I personally don't consider it canon but don't take a hard stance on it. If you have evidence to say it is, I wouldn't contest it.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I personally don't consider it canon but don't take a hard stance on it. If you have evidence to say it is, I wouldn't contest it.

I have a lot of evidence actually. Just wait for my next thread

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

1. Page to explain the canon

This is essential. Many people question why works like Harem Royale are said to be canon to the franchise. We need a page that explains how the franchise’s general framework works and which works fall within Ryukishi07’s star system.

Hi everyone, I wanted to let you know I’ve made solid progress on this point and I’d love your thoughts on it.

For now I’ve focused on laying out the evidence that establishes canonicity across the franchise. My plan is to go through each “controversial” work one by one afterward.

07th Expansion - Canon

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[HigashikataJobin]

Hi everyone, I wanted to let you know I’ve made solid progress on this point and I’d love your thoughts on it.

For now I’ve focused on laying out the evidence that establishes canonicity across the franchise. My plan is to go through each “controversial” work one by one afterward.

07th Expansion - Canon

vsbattles.fandom.com

Looks good honestly.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Looks good honestly.

Thank you!! Do you like the explanation? Is everything clear enough?

 

[HigashikataJobin]

Thank you!! Do you like the explanation? Is everything clear enough?

Yep. The explanation seems very clear, and the examples are pretty good and solid. This is will be important in the remake of the cosmology.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Yep. The explanation seems very clear, and the examples are pretty good and solid. This is will be important in the remake of the cosmology.

Sadly I cannot connect Silent Hill F with 07th smh...

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Hi everyone, I wanted to let you know I’ve made solid progress on this point and I’d love your thoughts on it.

For now I’ve focused on laying out the evidence that establishes canonicity across the franchise. My plan is to go through each “controversial” work one by one afterward.

07th Expansion - Canon

vsbattles.fandom.com

Good work!

You could also use this interview where Ryukishi compares his works with Disneyland, saying it is like a "Ryukishiland".

Also, Ryukishi seems to consider all the media his works appear in to be equally valid to enter the world of his works. I think you can use that to provide canonicity, at least as a secondary canon, of the Manga and Anime. And, well, there also is the 8th episode of the manga of Umineko being a direct answer to the events from Ryukishi.

Regarding Mei, these tweets of Ryukishi writing some scenarios might also help.

On a side note, I think I've seen some comments from staffs saying that an official page shall not include links to other fandom wikis as proves (though iirc all times I've seen that it was regarding profiles, not explanation pages. So idk how it'd be for those). Just so you know it.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Good work!

You could also use this interview where Ryukishi compares his works with Disneyland, saying it is like a "Ryukishiland".

Also, Ryukishi seems to consider all the media his works appear in to be equally valid to enter the world of his works. I think you can use that to provide canonicity, at least as a secondary canon, of the Manga and Anime. And, well, there also is the 8th episode of the manga of Umineko being a direct answer to the events from Ryukishi.

Regarding Mei, these tweets of Ryukishi writing some scenarios might also help.

On a side note, I think I've seen some comments from staffs saying that an official page shall not include links to other fandom wikis as proves (though iirc all times I've seen that it was regarding profiles, not explanation pages. So idk how it'd be for those). Just so you know it.

Thank you so much, that definitely helps!!

Regarding Higurashi Mei, since it’s part of Higurashi, it’s 100% canon, but it never hurts to include evidence that Ryukishi is involved in writing some of the events.

And lastly, okay, I’ll remove most of the links, but I need to keep the ones that point to interviews... or well, I think I can work something out. Let me see.

 

[Hasty12345]

A canon Vtuber goes crazy

 

[MrKerf]

Sadly I cannot connect Silent Hill F with 07th smh...

My day is ruined T_T

 

[MrKerf]

Hi everyone, I wanted to let you know I’ve made solid progress on this point and I’d love your thoughts on it.

For now I’ve focused on laying out the evidence that establishes canonicity across the franchise. My plan is to go through each “controversial” work one by one afterward.

07th Expansion - Canon

vsbattles.fandom.com

Absolute cinema. I didn’t even knew about the VTuber, the more you learn, huh…

The only tiny thing I have is that when you say that “entirety of "Umineko No Naku Koro Ni" is a fragment world”, we obviously know what you mean, but Umineko also includes the majority of Meta World, City of Books, etc, etc. So it would be better to rephrase as “the majority of events” imho.
Also, I don’t feel great about referencing Overvoid, or any other franchise’s

 

[PristineWater]

Absolute cinema. I didn’t even knew about the VTuber, the more you learn, huh…

The only tiny thing I have is that when you say that “entirety of "Umineko No Naku Koro Ni" is a fragment world”, we obviously know what you mean, but Umineko also includes the majority of Meta World, City of Books, etc, etc. So it would be better to rephrase as “the majority of events” imho.
Also, I don’t feel great about referencing Overvoid, or any other franchise’s

Yeah I think the blog should only has info from the franchise, and avoid any references and scan comparing stuffs to other verses altogether. Less unnecessary arguments with people