BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Qawsedf234]

from 4:30 to 5:00

Lmao no

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Is anyone thinking of opening a CRT soon? I'm thinking of opening a CRT.

 

[Crobatman44]

The fabled Ulquiorra downgrade,
His res shall no longer upscale to baseline High 6-A.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

from 4:30 to 5:00

I don't even understand how he got High Hyperversal Garganta from the quotes he had.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I don't even understand how he got High Hyperversal Garganta from the quotes he had.

It's power scaling brain rot taken to the extreme.

• Hell (from the movie Hellverse) according to ChatGPT is multidimensional (video argues all material in Bleach including filler and movies are canon which is why its used)
• Hell exists within the Garganta
• Hell due to being layered is a hierarchy
• Since Hell is a hierarchy, it must follow set theory(???)
• The Garganta being infinite in size means it must contain an infinite set, which is High 1-B
• Ichigo can shatter/transcend fate and since fate is supernatural it must transcend the concepts of space-time so he and Yhwach are Low 1-A

It requires multiple logical leaps that wouldn't be accepted on this site.

 

[Deceived3596]

It's consistent. Soul King is the Monad, trust.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

It's power scaling brain rot taken to the extreme.

I bet.

• Hell (from the movie Hellverse) according to ChatGPT is multidimensional (video argues all material in Bleach including filler and movies are canon which is why its used)

Alright, that's not awful. I can see where that comes from.

• Hell exists within the Garganta

I thought it didn't?

• Hell due to being layered is a hierarchy

But it's not layered dimensionally at all? It's like arguing a layer cake is a higher-dimensional structure just because "it's layered."

• Since Hell is a hierarchy, it must follow set theory(???)

Ok, the previous ones kind of make sense, this one just jumps the shark entirely.

• The Garganta being infinite in size means it must contain an infinite set, which is High 1-B

That's dumb, but it at least sort of makes sense, if you squint a bit.

• Ichigo can shatter/transcend fate and since fate is supernatural it must transcend the concepts of space-time so he and Yhwach are Low 1-A

... Does he realize that same logic can be applied to so many other series, it's not even funny?

It requires multiple logical leaps that wouldn't be accepted on this site.

I feel like it's bad even for a the standards of a random power scaling YouTube video!

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

It's consistent. Soul King is the Monad, trust.

True! Tier 0 Ichigo, here we come!

 

[Qawsedf234]

thought it didn't?

To be honest I'm not sure how the cosmology for Hellverse works. Like in main canon Hell is seperate from the cosmology since it existed before the Soul King split the world into three parts. So even in a composited canon I'd imagine it would never be part of the Garganta. The movie also doesn't mention Hell existing within the Garganta, but a sealed space seperate from everything.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

To be honest I'm not sure how the cosmology for Hellverse works. Like in main canon Hell is seperate from the cosmology since it existed before the Soul King split the world into three parts. So even in a composited canon I'd imagine it would never be part of the Garganta. The movie also doesn't mention Hell existing within the Garganta, but a sealed space seperate from everything.

Hell is likely within the Garganta, to my understanding the Garganta is a container for the cosmology in it’s entirety. There are many realms in Bleach never spoken of such as the beast realm where Sajin is from.

And even more worlds are being created by lost souls all the time (Valley of scream).

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

I got the intelligence revisions up and running again. I've been a bit absent because of life and other hyperfixations

 

[Deceived3596]

Hell did preexist the current framework of the Cosmology, but it is stated that one of the ancestors of the 5 great Noble families wanted to place a "lid" over what would eventually be considered Hell. Now, we don't know what exactly that "lid" actually constitutes, but I don't think it's a massive leap in logical coherency to say that the Garganta could constitute such a thing. Still, anything we say is ultimately speculation since we don't know exactly what it is.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Now, we don't know what exactly that "lid" actually constitutes, but I don't think it's a massive leap in logical coherency to say that the Garganta could constitute such a thing. Still, anything we say is ultimately speculation since we don't know exactly what it is.

My imagination is that the pre-split world rested (cosmologically) above Hell

The Tsunayashiro ancestor was afraid that this mighty power would someday be used against them.

The ancestor of the opposing clan said that it was necessary to have a world that would serve as the lid to cover up the 'pit' that would later be known as 'Hell'.

During the restructure, only the Human world is connected to Hell or at least serves as the Gate between Hell and the other worlds. But presumably if the Garganta existed back them, it would still be the void in which Hell and the Pre-Split universe existed in.

 

[Crobatman44]

I got the intelligence revisions up and running again. I've been a bit absent because of life and other hyperfixations

That's Good to hear,glad to see you back in action.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Does anyone have the scan about Rukia in the Shinoretsujin?

 

[Soulking22334]

It's power scaling brain rot taken to the extreme.

• Hell (from the movie Hellverse) according to ChatGPT is multidimensional (video argues all material in Bleach including filler and movies are canon which is why its used)
• Hell exists within the Garganta
• Hell due to being layered is a hierarchy
• Since Hell is a hierarchy, it must follow set theory(???)
• The Garganta being infinite in size means it must contain an infinite set, which is High 1-B
• Ichigo can shatter/transcend fate and since fate is supernatural it must transcend the concepts of space-time so he and Yhwach are Low 1-A

It requires multiple logical leaps that wouldn't be accepted on this site.

This needs something to make sense. The concept of hierarchy in hell must be the same as we understand it.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Multi Spiritual Hill Level

ill die on this hill

 

[PizzaDante67]

He calls Ichigo Low Outerversal because he has Fate Manipulation which is supernatural.

So yes, though that should've been obvious.

Worst part is that there are people who actually agree with this scaling. Saw someone say that Ichigo is High 1-C lowballed

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Worst part is that there are people who actually agree with this scaling. Saw someone say that Ichigo is High 1-C lowballed

With really lax scaling that’s not as nitpicky or strict as most scaling forums like this….I could see 1-C Bleach, scaling to 5/6D AP and Dura as a high ball. If we say Soul King level spiritual energy scales to creating/destroying the Garganta’s space time continuum with the Garganta being infinite at least or a higher dimensional construct at best compared to the Dangai which in itself is a hyperspace….

(Aka destroying a 4D space-time continuum = 5D or destroying a 5D space-time continuum = 6D)

….but idk how one would get them to 10/11D

 

[ItsMeat]

With really lax scaling that’s not as nitpicky or strict as most scaling forums like this….I could see 1-C Bleach, scaling to 5/6D AP and Dura as a high ball. If we say Soul King level spiritual energy scales to creating/destroying the Garganta’s space time continuum with the Garganta being infinite at least or a higher dimensional construct at best compared to the Dangai which in itself is a hyperspace….

(Aka destroying a 4D space-time continuum = 5D or destroying a 5D space-time continuum = 6D)

….but idk how one would get them to 10/11D

I think there is a way to wank with non canon statements from reigai arc(about countless/infinite dangais) and then pulling the "hell is outside garganta which is infinite, therefore hell is at least dimensionally equal to garganta and then we have the 5 layers of hell, each of them being dimensionally superior to the previous one". Which is stupid, but I've seen people say such bs before.

 

[ItsMeat]

Btw, am I blind or does the Hollow Physiology page lack the famous "High-speed regeneration" of hollows? I think it's around low mid anyway, but would still be a decent ability

 

[Crobatman44]

Would the proportional power Fullbring Shikai Ichigo recieved scale to or over sealed squad zero's not using the power of a single division btw?
I don't think it's correct but i still would like to know people's thoughts on that.

 

[ItsMeat]

Would the proportional power Fullbring Shikai Ichigo recieved scale to or over sealed squad zero's not using the power of a single division btw?
I don't think it's correct but i still would like to know people's thoughts on that.

It deffinetely should be around at the very least. The only gotei 13 captain clearly stronger than fb ichigo at that point is yamamoto.

 

[Crobatman44]

It deffinetely should be around at the very least. The only gotei 13 captain clearly stronger than fb ichigo at that point is yamamoto.

Yeah my only concern is if anyone (who is not currently 4-A or higher) scales to it outside of uh... Regular Vollständig Quilge and Shikai Ginjo.
Guess i'll wait till someone smarter than me tells me "this becomes circular scaling due to this character" or "this does not work"

 

[PizzaDante67]

Are there any speed upgrades planned or do we wait until cour 4 drops?

 

[Crobatman44]

Are there any speed upgrades planned or do we wait until cour 4 drops?

Uh,after Cour 4 same with Lifting.
Gimme a sec to grab the right comment.
Edit:nevermind the comment i was thinking of does not include speed/lifting so uh.
I assume they are gonna be after cour 4 tho.

 

[ItsMeat]

Are there any speed upgrades planned or do we wait until cour 4 drops?

Most calcs are not updated to the currently accepted distance between reiokyu and seiretei. Also, there is no calc for the eyeball monsters. I mean, I did one and it was a huge upgrade for aizen and yhwach' reaction speed, poasibly for ichigo's as well

 

[PizzaDante67]

Most calcs are not updated to the currently accepted distance between reiokyu and seiretei. Also, there is no calc for the eyeball monsters. I mean, I did one and it was a huge upgrade for aizen and yhwach' reaction speed, poasibly for ichigo's as well

What do you think of the possible Senjumaru reiatsu speed feat? I think there‘s a statement of it traveling from the Palace to the World of the living (and probably the Soul Society and Hueco Mundo as well).

 

[SacredDao]

so can someone tell me if ichgo also has gentei kaijo applied to him while he is in Wol or is he free from it's restriction since he isn't officially captain or lieutant?

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

so can someone tell me if ichgo also has gentei kaijo applied to him while he is in Wol or is he free from it's restriction since he isn't officially captain or lieutant?

Ichigo isn't a captain, nor is he a lieutenant, the closest rank to a captain. Therefore, this restriction wouldn't apply to him. It's the same situation as Ikkaku. Ichigo also has the seal bestowed by the Shinigami badge, not the Gentei Rein. But I don't know how much it weakens him. Furthermore, when Ginjo pointed out to him that the badge also restricted him, Ichigo seemed to deny it. I seem to recall some dialogue like that. I think if there was a significant weakening, Ichigo would have sensed it and voiced it.

 

[SacredDao]

Ichigo isn't a captain, nor is he a lieutenant, the closest rank to a captain. Therefore, this restriction wouldn't apply to him. It's the same situation as Ikkaku. Ichigo also has the seal bestowed by the Shinigami badge, not the Gentei Rein. But I don't know how much it weakens him. Furthermore, when Ginjo pointed out to him that the badge also restricted him, Ichigo seemed to deny it. I seem to recall some dialogue like that. I think if there was a significant weakening, Ichigo would have sensed it and voiced it.

I guess that makes sense, thank you for answering.

 

[ItsMeat]

What do you think of the possible Senjumaru reiatsu speed feat? I think there‘s a statement of it traveling from the Palace to the World of the living (and probably the Soul Society and Hueco Mundo as well).

It might be useable for speed scaling, if you go with gillian cero=lightspeed and first episodes ichigo reacted to and blocked a cero from a Gillian, scale this to relativistic reaction speed, then go with 20% base byakuya blitzing a far faster and stronger version of this ichigo and then go with multipliers and so on. I did such a calc once(it was wrong tho) and obtained absurd values like around 2 billions of time sol for shinigami aizen. One could also use senbonzakura kageyoshi being faster than shikai ichigo who is relateable to shikai byakuya, who is superior to bankai renji, who(and now we use multipliers) is superior to the renji who went extreme diff with shikai ichigo, having 100million petals and ichigo deflecting all those 100million attacks moving towards him at double the speed that was greater than that of shikai ichigo. And then, just spam multipliers.

The only problem is gin's "mach 500" statement, but even that can be argued against to some degree.

 

[PizzaDante67]

It might be useable for speed scaling, if you go with gillian cero=lightspeed and first episodes ichigo reacted to and blocked a cero from a Gillian, scale this to relativistic reaction speed, then go with 20% base byakuya blitzing a far faster and stronger version of this ichigo and then go with multipliers and so on. I did such a calc once(it was wrong tho) and obtained absurd values like around 2 billions of time sol for shinigami aizen. One could also use senbonzakura kageyoshi being faster than shikai ichigo who is relateable to shikai byakuya, who is superior to bankai renji, who(and now we use multipliers) is superior to the renji who went extreme diff with shikai ichigo, having 100million petals and ichigo deflecting all those 100million attacks moving towards him at double the speed that was greater than that of shikai ichigo. And then, just spam multipliers.

The only problem is gin's "mach 500" statement, but even that can be argued against to some degree.

Wasn’t Gin‘s statement referring to his clapping speed? If i recall correctly, it says

神殺槍」が伸縮する速さを、己の手を打つ速さになすらえる

Which should translate to
„ The speed at which "Kamishini No Yari' extends and contracts matches the speed of Gin's claps“
(Please correct me if i‘m wrong. I‘m not sure if my translation is 100% valid)

Also, wouldn’t senjumaru‘s feat just apply to a handful of people? Like the God-Tiers only. Why would we need cero= lightspeed?

 

[ItsMeat]

Wasn’t Gin‘s statement referring to his clapping speed? If i recall correctly, it says

神殺槍」が伸縮する速さを、己の手を打つ速さになすらえる

Which should translate to
„ The speed at which "Kamishini No Yari' extends and contracts matches the speed of Gin's claps“
(Please correct me if i‘m wrong. I‘m not sure if my translation is 100% valid)

Also, wouldn’t senjumaru‘s feat just apply to a handful of people? Like the God-Tiers only. Why would we need cero= lightspeed?

Pretty sure gin's question is "Did you get it?" instead of "Did you hear it". Moreover, for those who look at the movement of his palms, they look as if he takes a praying stance, not as if he claps like people usually do (as appaludes). Then, there is the speed of his palms which are shown to move very fast. If all you want is sound, what is the point in moving extremely fast. He could have merely clapped normally.

And yeah, few would benefit from senjumaru scaling, but squad 0 members(ichibē excluded) aren't that far above captain class. Yamamoto and shinigami aizen are literally considered to scale to them, urahara also scales around that lvl, same for other guys, such as shunsui. This way, this "few" would extend to dozens of people

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

And yeah, few would benefit from senjumaru scaling, but squad 0 members(ichibē excluded) aren't that far above captain class. Yamamoto and shinigami aizen are literally considered to scale to them, urahara also scales around that lvl, same for other guys, such as shunsui. This way, this "few" would extend to dozens of people

Shunsui is far below squad zero level

 

[ItsMeat]

Shunsui is far below squad zero level

He should be around urahara. Deffinetely not Aizen's equal, but he is pretty close to it. He and ukitake are considered to be top captains and there narrative implications of a relativity with the likes of unohana. Which even shinigami aizen considered capable of tiring him.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

He should be around urahara. Deffinetely not Aizen's equal, but he is pretty close to it. He and ukitake are considered to be top captains and there narrative implications of a relativity with the likes of unohana. Which even shinigami aizen considered capable of tiring him.

I don't know what statements you'll use, but let me explain why Shunsui isn't at that level:

1) Ukitake and Shunsui are related, and Ukitake gets blitzed by Base Wonderweiss. Yamamoto defeats Res Wonderweiss. Shikai Urahara can react to Wonderweiss at the last moment.

2) Yhwach tells Jugram to kill the Captain-Commander. He believes Jugram is capable enough to kill Shunsui.
At least Pre-Aushwalen Jugram~~>Shikai Shunsui
Sealed Kirinji easily defeats Pre-Aushwalen Jugram. The same Kirinji loses to Askin. Even Urahara's poisoned form overpowers Askin. His one-handed strike equals Askin's, while his two-handed strike sends Askin flying.

Nerfed Urahara>>>Hashein Askin>Askin>Sealed Kirinji>Pre Aushwalen Jugram~~>Shikai Shunsui

3) We also know that Shikai Shunsui is weaker than Starrk, and Starrk isn't even close to Aizen.

4) Ganju, sensing Senjumaru's reiatsu, states that no captain has this level of reiatsu. I don't think reiatsu = power, but this is an important point. Because if there's a significant reiatsu difference, Shunsui's bankai won't work on Squad Zero members either.

5) If Shunsui were Squad Zero level, they would have invited Shunsui instead of Kuruyashiki to Squad Zero.

 

[PizzaDante67]

Pretty sure gin's question is "Did you get it?" instead of "Did you hear it". Moreover, for those who look at the movement of his palms, they look as if he takes a praying stance, not as if he claps like people usually do (as appaludes). Then, there is the speed of his palms which are shown to move very fast. If all you want is sound, what is the point in moving extremely fast. He could have merely clapped normally.

And yeah, few would benefit from senjumaru scaling, but squad 0 members(ichibē excluded) aren't that far above captain class. Yamamoto and shinigami aizen are literally considered to scale to them, urahara also scales around that lvl, same for other guys, such as shunsui. This way, this "few" would extend to dozens of people

Wouldnt only First Fusion Aizen and above, Dangai/Mugetsu/True Shikai and True Bankai Ichigo, Almighty active and Soul King absorbed Yhwach, Full power Hikone, Soul King Fragment absorbed Ikomikidomoe, Cfyow Zaraki and other squad 0 members scale to or above her feat?

Also, i don’t think that it was ever implied that base Aizen and Yamamoto scale to a squad 0 members true power. Sure they are above their suppressed state but true power? Don’t think so.

 

[Excellence616]

5) If Shunsui were Squad Zero level, they would have invited Shunsui instead of Kuruyashiki to Squad Zero.

Pretty sure power has nothing to do as a criteria for joining the Zero Division unless Zaraki, Yamamoto and Unohana might be ask to join.

iirc the criteria for joining the Zero Division is massively contributing to the Soul Society.

 

[Specterxxxx]

He should be around urahara. Deffinetely not Aizen's equal, but he is pretty close to it. He and ukitake are considered to be top captains and there narrative implications of a relativity with the likes of unohana. Which even shinigami aizen considered capable of tiring him.

In Cyfow, tokinada was literally afraid of facing Urahara in a direct confrontation even while he was prisoned by aura. Saying Urahara could kill them with a kido spell. That same tokinada fought shunsui, yoruichi, shinji, nel, harribel, grimjoww and more combined. Urahara is definitely far beyond.

Tho I think shunsui is stronger than the likes of yoruichi and many other Captains aside kenpachi and adult toshiro.