General DC Comics Discussion Thread

[Adr10K]

Eh, guys, I was reading Blue Beetle's profile, and his justification for being Tier 2 made me think something.


Was there any particular reasoning in why we scale a creation feat ftom the New Gods to every AP catergory of every character? Like, why are we assuming it scales to absolutely every stat, even when it wasn't an AP feat at all.

And how consistent is it? Are we completely sure it's not an hyperbole?

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Eh, guys, I was reading Blue Beetle's profile, and his justification for being Tier 2 made me think something.


Was there any particular reasoning in why we scale a creation feat ftom the New Gods to every AP catergory of every character? Like, why are we assuming it scales to absolutely every stat, even when it wasn't an AP feat at all.

And how consistent is it? Are we completely sure it's not an hyperbole?

We visually see the nameless New God creating a new universe while another meditates nearby, so they're very literally doing what Scott said "meditating on their divinity, creating twisted universes"

 

[Rosa]

Wait since when is Blue Beetle Tier 5?

literally destroyed a planet

 

[Osemere]

How does Williamson’s (current Superman writer and former Flash writer) chart for the DC speed rankings work on this wiki if it has Superman as faster than the Black Racer, when Black Racer is 1-A…

 

[Antvasima]

How does Williamson’s (current Superman writer and former Flash writer) chart for the DC speed rankings work on this wiki if it has Superman as faster than the Black Racer, when Black Racer is 1-A…

Can you show us the chart please?

Also, this seem like even more proof that we have rated the sphere of the gods far too high.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

literally destroyed a planet

Oh I forgot this scene

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Can you show us the chart please?

Also, this seem like even more proof that we have rated the sphere of the gods far too high.

Probably referring to this.

 

[Adr10K]

Can you show us the chart please?

You can see it here

Also, this seem like even more proof that we have rated the sphere of the gods far too high.

Yeah, and that chart doesn't even make sense by itself. There's no way Clark's faster than half of those characters by himself.

But yeah, the Sphere inhabitants power levels really is a mess, especially when compared to lower level characters.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

How does Williamson’s (current Superman writer and former Flash writer) chart for the DC speed rankings work on this wiki if it has Superman as faster than the Black Racer, when Black Racer is 1-A…

We don't really use the speed rankings, but if we did, we'd say it's only taking into account Emanations seeing as Superman was able to outrace an emanation of the Black Racer, but on Apokolips, even boomtubeshifted he was powerless to stop TBR from taking Steel. He was also faster than Post Terminal Velocity Wally West, and it took Final Crisis Barry and Wally all they had to stay ahead of him.

 

[AcidSilver]

Was looking for DC feats and when I went looking for Mr. Mind's page I found out that it was deleted back in 2022. Why'd this happen and why hasn't anyone remade the page since?

 

[GoldenVortex94]

Probably referring to this.

Cheetah immeasurable for being above God Speed who can compete with Barry Allen

 

[Antvasima]

Was looking for DC feats and when I went looking for Mr. Mind's page I found out that it was deleted back in 2022. Why'd this happen and why hasn't anyone remade the page since?

I do not know. No explanation was listed there. It was presumably due to poor quality or unreliable information.

Mister Mind (Post-Crisis)

Mister Mind is an evil telepathic Venusian worm who serves as an enemy of Captain Marvel. Mister Mind is a magical creature with an insatiable appetite for supernatural power. Tier: 10-C | Low 2-C Name: Mister Mind, Maxivermis Mind Origin: DC Comics Gender: Male Age: Unknown Classification...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Osemere]

Lowkey downgrade the heralds from tier 2 to tier 6…

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Lowkey downgrade the heralds from tier 2 to tier 6…

Tier 6 when there's Tier 4 feats?

 

[Osemere]

Tier 6 when there's Tier 4 feats?

Right. Tier 7, then.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Right. Tier 7, then.

Questioning if this is ragebait or not

 

[Adr10K]

Tier 6 when there's Tier 4 feats?

Which ones? Half of them have been debunked.

Tier 5 is the best, and maybe Tier 5 when holding back

 

[Osemere]

Which ones? Half of them have been debunked.

Tier 5 is the best, and maybe Tier 5 when holding back

Name three (3) tier 5 feats

 

[Rosa]

what is 'herald' tier for DC?

 

[Osemere]

what is 'herald' tier for DC?

 

[KaramcaS]

Which ones? Half of them have been debunked.

Tier 5 is the best, and maybe Tier 5 when holding back

Max Tennyson blows up Superman with one punch, okay

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Which ones? Half of them have been debunked.

Tier 5 is the best, and maybe Tier 5 when holding back

- Tier 5 Infinite Power Wally

- Tier 5 Zor El flying throught exploding Supernovas

-Tier 5 Orion shockwave destroying a Star System

 

[Adr10K]

Name three (3) tier 5 feats

Literally every single statement of Superman, Diana, green lantern, etc being able to crack / move planets.
Supes with the heat vision at his peak being able to power an engine capable of moving a planet.
A weakened Superman shattering a planet in the 6th dimension.
An unrestricted Hal saying he could play pinball with moons.


They are a hundred more Tier 5 feats and statements than them being higher than that, and that's when they're unrestricted / going as hard as they can.

 

[KaramcaS]

 

[Adr10K]

- Tier 5 Infinite Power Wally

This shouldn't be valid, as it is follows the same logic as the already rejected Tier 4 IMP.

 

[Adr10K]

Max Tennyson blows up Superman with one punch, okay

Ah, okey? Nothing to do with the topic, but if you feel better sharing that with us, go ahead.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This shouldn't be valid, as it is follows the same logic as the already rejected Tier 4 IMP.

Yet has tier 2 feats to back it up

 

[Adr10K]

Yet has tier 2 feats to back it up

And a hundred anti feats, narrative views and writer statements to unback it up.

And even then, the point is not even the same, those calcs assumed Flash's mass was already "half a moon / dwarf star" when hitting at relativistic speed, which wasn't the point of the ability.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

And a hundred anti feats, narrative views and writer statements to unback it up.

Most of which aren't specified to be a power cap btw, like everything you previously cited

 

[Adr10K]

Most of which aren't specified to be a power cap btw, like everything you previously cited

Because i didn't want them go be them.

There's literally a ridiculous amount of time where Clark can't do shit to planet level threats or going at his max to perform it.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Supes with the heat vision at his peak being able to power an engine capable of moving a planet.

So, this is incorrect, he was nowhere near his peak.

You're referencing Superman's Return to Krypton arc. Superman 167. It's established he's under Krypton's red sun, and his powers are already starting to deplete

 

[Adr10K]

So, this is incorrect, he was nowhere near his peak.

You're referencing Superman's Return to Krypton arc. Superman 167. It's established he's under Krypton's red sun, and his powers are already starting to deplete

Exactly, starting to deplete, which means he wasn't depowered at all, and just a little below his standard.
Which means he going all out wouldn't be so far from his actual state.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Exactly, starting to deplete, which means he wasn't depowered at all, and just a little below his standard.
Which means he going all out wouldn't be so far from his actual state.

Not really, the context makes it seem like he's draining rapidly

Quote: "What makes you think you ca here, with your solar battery going tick-tick-tick".

She's saying it like he's already draining massively every moment.

The next issue even states the draining his leftover reserves like this coupled with the red sun left him powerless.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

An unrestricted Hal saying he could play pinball with moons.

Also this is incorrect. He was playing pool with moons (actually metal moonships created by a type omega alien race) and he didn't say it, he did it pretty casually.

Interestingly enough, the same issue's ending has a guy, Hyperman, who is rated as a Galaxy Destroyer and killed a fodder Lantern. Hal beat him solo to the point Hyperman called in backup, even after his wife sneak attacked him and damaged his ring first. It's also implied these sneak attacks on the rings when the Lanterns are off guard are the only way they can kill Lanterns.

 

[Adr10K]

Not really, the context makes it seem like he's draining rapidly

Quote: "What makes you think you ca here, with your solar battery going tick-tick-tick".

Dude, literally saying it as his powers are about t to start to drain, as that "tick tak" refers to literally the time flowing, which means his powers are still there, but may start to be reduced / are reducing.

She's saying it like he's already draining massively every moment.

I'm curious on where did you get the "massively' part.

The next issue even states the draining his leftover reserves like this coupled with the red sun left him powerless.

Yes, after doing the freaking "I moved a planet" thing.
And even then, it's inconsistent by the portrayal of Clark losing his powers immediately after being in the same area as red solar energy.

Also this is incorrect. He was playing pool with moons (actually metal moonships created by a type omega alien race) and he didn't say it, he did it pretty casually.

After removing the ring's limits lmao.

Interestingly enough, the same issue's ending has a guy, Hyperman, who is rated as a Galaxy Destroyer and killed a fodder Lantern. Hal beat him solo to the point Hyperman called in backup, even after his wife sneak attacked him and damaged his ring first. It's also implied these sneak attacks on the rings when the Lanterns are off guard are the only way they can kill Lanterns.

Dude, he's saying he's sn GALACTIC threat, nothing even remotely the same as "I can disappear a Galaxy'

Those kind of statements aren't the same thing as what you're implying.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Dude, literally saying it as his powers are about t to start to drain, as that "tick tak" refers to literally the time flowing, which means his powers are still there, but may start to be reduced / are reducing.

I'm curious on where did you get the "massively' part.

Yes, after doing the freaking "I moved a planet" thing.
And even then, it's inconsistent by the portrayal of Clark losing his powers immediately after being in the same area as red solar energy.

So, let;s start with this claim:

No, in Post Crisis and n52, Solar energy drains his reserves quickly, but not instantly in many cases. This is shown repeatedly as being around red sunlight isn't an instant off switch but a massive drain with no recharge:

The idea that "that "tick tak" refers to literally the time flowing, which means his powers are still there, but may start to be reduced / are reducing." doesn't really track in this context: Tick tick tick is used as a counter going down and she's saying it in reference to his power levels, not time. "You can't move a planet back home, what makes you think you can here with your solar battery going tick tick tick" (Superman casually says "What makes you think I can't?" in response to her saying he can't).

The idea of Red Sunlight instantly being a shuolff is just incorrect and if it was true, he'd have died in many of those scans.

"After removing the ring's limits lmao."

Um, he didn't "remove the rings limits". He was acknowledging the upgraded ring he got ALL THE WAY BACK in issue 1, which was because his old battery was outdated. It's literally his standard gear.

Dude, he's saying he's sn GALACTIC threat, nothing even remotely the same as "I can disappear a Galaxy'

Those kind of statements aren't the same thing as what you're implying.

I'm taking the statement literally.

If someone was called a Planet+ Class Super destroyer, the literal implication is they can/have destroyed a planet. Hyperman isn't called a Galactic threat, he's called a Galactic Plus Super Destroyer

 

[Adr10K]

So, let;s start with this claim:

No, in Post Crisis and n52, Solar energy drains his reserves quickly, but not instantly in many cases. This is shown repeatedly as being around red sunlight isn't an instant off switch but a massive drain with no recharge:

The idea that "that "tick tak" refers to literally the time flowing, which means his powers are still there, but may start to be reduced / are reducing." doesn't really track in this context: Tick tick tick is used as a counter going down and she's saying it in reference to his power levels, not time. "You can't move a planet back home, what makes you think you can here with your solar battery going tick tick tick" (Superman casually says "What makes you think I can't?" in response to her saying he can't).

The idea of Red Sunlight instantly being a shuolff is just incorrect and if it was true, he'd have died in many of those scans.

You're literally just proving my point.
Sure, he wasn't at his max, however, he had enough energy to perform the feat and by the context, wasn't depowered enough to make a huge difference between his usual level and his weakened one.

"After removing the ring's limits lmao."

Um, he didn't "remove the rings limits". He was acknowledging the upgraded ring he got ALL THE WAY BACK in issue 1, which was because his old battery was outdated. It's literally his standard gear.


I'm taking the statement literally.

Which is wrong. These statements aren't suppose to be considered literally, since is just a classification, you're taking it by the wrong side completely.

And all of this discussion and nothing close to ensure Clarks (or other Leaguer) is femotelh close to Tier 2 consistently.
Like, lmao, the amount of anti feats is just ridiculous.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

You're literally just proving my point.
Sure, he wasn't at his max, however, he had enough energy to perform the feat

Was never in question. The question was if he was at peak or not

and by the context, wasn't depowered enough to make a huge difference between his usual level and his weakened one.

Disagree there, as it was enough of a difference between his usual level and his current one for Lois to make a contrasting statement between the two.

Which is wrong. These statements aren't suppose to be considered literally, since is just a classification, you're taking it by the wrong side completely.

I disagree. I feel like without a clarifying statement of it not being literal, we should take it at face value. Like, my dude, if someone's classified as a galaxy destroyer without context, unless they say "Ravaged" or "ruined" or something like that, I don't see why not to take it literally

And all of this discussion and nothing close to ensure Clarks (or other Leaguer) is femotelh close to Tier 2 consistently.
Like, lmao, the amount of anti feats is just ridiculous.

What the shit did that have to do with what we're talking about? Are you just applying positions to me when all I was doing was pointing out the flaws in your claims?

 

[Rosa]

So far I've been reading comics from 2020-onwards focused on the heroes I enjoy, so the sort of comics which people use for feats and cosmology scaling have been kinda secondary which is annoying when I wanna have scaling conversations and I simply don't know the context behind the main popular feats. I'm gonna go back and read from other eras too, ideally post-crisis but idm going back into pre-crisis either, so give me recommendations for comics which ya'll think have good feats for the JL and such (speed and ap) and go into the cosmology. You can recommend one comic, one broader story, a whole list, whatever.

 

[Spinoirr]

what is 'herald' tier for DC?

In my personal opinion it varies in power depending on their meta narrative, after all all the Justice Leauge are aspects of concepts of the narrative

Hence the inconsistencies, at least how I see it