Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

[TugiaTheNarrator]

If it was from a leading question or asked by one of our members.

Still I feel like it shouldn't be used given Vivzie wasn't sure on her standpoint, tho I feel like we're going off topic here.

 

[FinePoint]

I don't think it was? Nothing seemed malicious, just a simple, "who would you say?"
But if it gets removed then ok, just site rules

Still I feel like it shouldn't be used given Vivzie wasn't sure on her standpoint, tho I feel like we're going off topic here.

Indeed, a CRT should probably just be made about that.

 

[MeiouHades]

Well, so here's the thing. I'm actually completely content with Bambu's current evaluation by giving Unanimous and I formal warning (I assume that's on our tracker now? Not sure about this stuff). I was gonna add even more examples and push harder but..... for some reason I no longer feel good doing that, I was even thinking about retracting the report entirely or some parts just because I felt sort of horrible about it, I don't know why. But that'd be dishonest of me, especially since Bambu asked me to provide a bit more evidence. So please let it be clear that this response is ONLY to answer Bambu's question, I am NO LONGER pushing for any sort of punishment for Unanimous, of course if the Staff decide that further punishment is appropriate after this, that is their call but I am completely content with the current evaluation. With that said, here goes:

Regarding all that came before, I find there is proof enough for pettiness to back up the claim of spiting Dragon Ball, but I'm not seeing any reason for Dragon Ball in particular to be targeted that would lead us to a conclusion of spite, barring perhaps a vague thrashing out, but it doesn't seem like that to me. Unanimous' messages imply, in my view, a plausible belief that they are correct regarding Dragon Ball (whether they are or aren't, I don't really care). There are other plausible scenarios, but rather than explore them I will reiterate my wish for context on Unanimous that would lead us to believe this is a situation of spite.

So the spite accusation is a major one and one I would consider ban time a likely punishment for, but it would need to be proven with more evidence than is currently provided.

I removed most of the response since I'm assuming it doesn't need one and it was sort of resolved anyway. So I'll just focus on this, the first piece of evidence, very similar to my first screenshot, can be found right the thread itself with this statement from @Iamunanimousinthat:

This is so funny to me. Exactly the reason why I made that thread. The time room gets to be a dimension with zero statements. But these aren't direct enough statements? You can claim that every universe has it's own time room with zero statements. But these aren't enough statements? And on top of that you can claim that each time room in each universe is separate and not a shared dimension with zero statements. But these aren't direct enough statements?

"That thread" here is obviously referring to their Dragon Ball thread. You can see clearly here that this was some sort of "revenge" here because some of their statements were rejected for not being explicit enough, which they claim here was the reason they made the DB downgrade thread, because the "time room gets to be a dimension with zero statements....". This should prove without a doubt that that thread was not an honest attempt at a revision. The user themselves confirms it.

Now you asked why I believe this is specifically spite against Dragon Ball. Well for one, I have been their primary opposition over the recent Sailor Moon threads and the primary verse I support and argue for here is in fact Dragon Ball. Not just myself, most of the people who were in that Sailor Moon thread was the "DBZ gang" (supporters) as they've put it many times, including right in this RVR Thread too.

Now, you also asked for whether or not those screenshots that I sent were cropped, and the answer is that yes the latter two of them were cropped. I did it on purpose to conceal the identity of the other Discord members simply because I don't feel good included them here without asking them nor do I believe they're relevant. But, I can still show you the uncropped version and the full sequence of that conversation if you wish, but please note that I will still abide by my principle of not revealing their identities publicly here (if you just want to see who they can, I can only show you in PMs).

This(1) is(2) the(3) full sequence of that conversation, uncropped. You can follow the conversation by looking at the timings of the message, I didn't blur them out for that reason. Also to drive the point further that this was NOT a well-research and well-intentioned thread at all, here they state that that's (the time room) they believed was the crux of the argument for Dragon Ball Tier 1, when they asked @Qawsedf234 "way back then", which I'm presuming refers to back in 2023 or early-2024 since this was true at that time. But, as everyone in the thread itself told Unanimous, this was no longer true after we had gone through several revisions after that, proving that this was a rushed, spite/revenge, poorly-researched thread

So yes, here's the stuff you had asked for. As I said previously, I'm only posting this just to answer your question and to make it clear to everyone that I'm wasn't lying here about this. I am more than happy with the current evaluation and would happily take the warning Unanimous and I were given, it is entirely up to the staff if they decide anything further with this. I'll be mostly unfollowing the thread after this unless specifically asked to clarify something else, goodbye.

 

[Antvasima]

For the record, I have noticed what seems to be a collective gang-up against Iamunanimousinthat, which likely in sum total counts as a form of extensive bullying, even if it seems like mostly a case of quantity rather than very extreme individual occurrences. However, I haven't noticed such behaviour from MeiouHades personally, but rather from self-appointed cheerleaders, and I might be mistaken.

 

[FinePoint]

For the record, I have noticed what seems to be a collective gang-up against Iamunanimousinthat, which likely in sum total counts as a form of extensive bullying, even if it seems like mostly a case of quantity rather than very extreme individual occurrences. However, I haven't noticed such behaviour from MeiouHades personally, but rather from self-appointed cheerleaders, and I might be mistaken.

What do you mean by cheerleaders, exactly?

I did notice quite a lot of likes on MeiouHades's report in a fairly short time, far more than most posts here ever get, even for far better organized reports against far worse offenses.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, even from a cursory view, I noticed some gang-up heckling and demoralising directed against Iamunanimousinthat or their revisions, so if their Sailor Moon discussion threads have turned into spammed messes, and they currently feel bullied, that might require further investigation.

Cheerleaders means members who applauded anything MeiouHades said and heckled anything that Iamunanimousinthat said.

 

[FinePoint]

Well, even from a cursory view, I noticed some gang-up heckling and demoralising directed against Iamunanimousinthat or their revisions, so if their Sailor Moon discussion threads have turned into spammed messes, and they currently feel bullied, that might require further investigation.

Cheerleaders means members who applauded anything MeiouHades said and heckled anything that Iamunanimousinthat said.

I've definitely noticed the same thing, though it's a difficult situation because, like you said, nobody in particular has done anything extreme, and rather it's just the quantity that would likely make Iamunanimousinthat feel isolated or bullied.

That said, there's no need to speculate since we have them here.

@Iamunanimousinthat
If you have felt generally dog-piled then you should let us know.
If you're not comfortable doing so publicly, then it could certainly be discussed privately instead.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we can at the very least state general behavioural warnings in threads that have gone out of control, and also thread-ban and delete the posts of members who engage in inappropriate behaviour.

 

[FinePoint]

Well, we can at the very least state general behavioural warnings in threads that have gone out of control, and also thread-ban and delete the posts of members who engage in inappropriate behaviour.

Speaking of warnings, Bambu suggested they both receive one, and I said I didn't think that was unreasonable.
What about you?

 

[Antvasima]

I don't know. What has Iamunanimousinthat done exactly? If it was something minor, perhaps we should ignore it this once due to that they had to endure abuse in conjunction?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Honestly, the one thing that got to me the most, is that there were constantly people making posts that I was manipulating evidence or were presenting deliberate misrepresentations of the manga.

If you remember a few years back I reported a user who expressed efforts in getting me banned.

Post in thread 'Rule Violation Reports (New forum)'
https://vsbattles.com/threads/rule-violation-reports-new-forum.107529/post-6234029

So this past few weeks It feels like it was coordinated. Almost every action I did, gets called into suspicion, regardless of how many times I tried to defend myself from these accusations.

 

[FinePoint]

I don't know. What has Iamunanimousinthat done exactly? If it was something minor, perhaps we should ignore it this once due to that they had to endure abuse in conjunction?

In actuality, not a lot. In terms of provable offenses, they've mostly just been kind of accusatory and aggressive, such as here.

Though, it was sort of in direct response to the kind of bullying we've been talking about, and the very next post, a meme making fun of them, sort of hammers in the point.

I think I'm only okay with a warning because they technically were also rude, but I'm not blind to the fact that being so in defense of other rudeness is definitely a mitigating factor.

So, I would be fine with not taking action as well, and think I would prefer it actually.
Especially since the person who made the report in the first place is seemingly feeling remorseful about it.

That said, I think it would only be fair if we also didn't punish MeiouHades and instead strive to reach an understanding between them and deal with the toxicity going on in general instead.

 

[FinePoint]

Honestly, the one thing that got to me the most, is that there were constantly people making posts that I was manipulating evidence or were presenting deliberate misrepresentations of the manga.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, I want you to know I've always been very skeptical of the accusations made against you regarding manipulating evidence and such.

I was mildly frustrated at the thread(s) being closed twice, but in reality this was more directed towards the circumstance and general operational procedure than at you.

You clearly put a lot of work into your revisions, and your tenacity to argue your positions even when outnumbered is admirable. Even if we haven't historically agreed, I want it to be clear that I do greatly respect you and your contributions. It's never anything personal to me, and I hope you understand that.

I've argued unpopular opinions before too, and I know it can really suck and take a lot of your energy to do alone. I've even been in the same position of feeling like quitting due to it too. I hope you realize that being popular isn't what makes you valid, and that you continue to find inspiration to stick to your ideals.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Thank you! That actually means a lot me. And gives me a reason to not take these things too seriously.

I will try to be more courteous and understanding to others and give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

And as for the dbz thread. This was something I had been working on sometime and only did choose to post it out of anger when it wasn’t completely ready. I don’t consider it spite, but I shouldn’t have let my emotions get the best of me and try to rush a thread out of anger.

 

[SailorRanger64]

For the record, I have noticed what seems to be a collective gang-up against Iamunanimousinthat, which likely in sum total counts as a form of extensive bullying, even if it seems like mostly a case of quantity rather than very extreme individual occurrences. However, I haven't noticed such behaviour from MeiouHades personally, but rather from self-appointed cheerleaders, and I might be mistaken.

I haven't been here long, but I've noticed that whenever Iamunanimousinthat has made a post recently, the same group of people responded almost instantly, just something to think about. But I do believe both the Dragon Ball downgrade thread and this Star Destroyer were made with not the best intentions. The former's already been addressed but the latter was made hours before as a response to the back and forth.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

First time for me making a report, but I would like to report @Tempestdragon6, through the means of screenshots provided by @OblivionOfTheEndless.

Acknowledging that they have inquired arguments for this thread, that said argument being the starting one/original post through the word of Moriarty from their deleted messages, belonging to the banned user AstralTrinity from off-site. It is not the first time they have been reported as one would know, having been warned previously via their behavior in a prior tensura-related thread, so any action taken would be appreciated.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

No problem. Mistakes happen.

Anyway, Astral_Trinity439 wants to make an appeal to have his 6 months block reduced to 3 months instead:

Antvasima

community.fandom.com

This case has seemingly been accepted by 3 staff, and 1 is against it. No new arguments or votes have come in days, and the appeal was from weeks ago, with relatively low activity.

So far, it's me, you, and Bambu in agreement with reducing the ban duration.

Reiner is currently the only opposition, but they also said: "I will be fine if other staffs decided to give him second chance."

Regardless, I will try to convince them.

It is my understanding there is no actual proof of intentional manipulation. The primary thing brought up prior was that no popular machine translators used the specific words provided, which would imply their arbitrary insertion.

However, Astral proved that these words are accepted as alternative translations on those machine translators, which means it's not impossible they simply thought those alternatives were more fitting for whatever reason.

Intention is very hard to prove, and perhaps this is just because I grew up in the United States, but I believe that the default assumption should be innocence unless there's actual evidence to the contrary. That they frequently gave bad translations via MTL there is undeniable evidence for, and a 3 month ban was already agreed on for this. The extension was explicitly under the suspicion it was done intentionally, which I think there is no such evidence for.

Still, I'm not blind to the fact that personal judgement is sometimes needed when a line is repeatedly walked on, and that sometimes an intuition can be acted on. From that perspective, I have my own personal experiences with Astral's character to weigh in too, if we insist on trying to guess their intentions.

For the last two weeks or so, Astral has been talking to me over Discord (presumably because they're banned on the forum), and in short, asking me a lot of questions about various parts of the tiering system, providing examples, if something qualifies for a certain rating or ability, etc.

They've regularly provided me with additional context when asked, been very polite if my impression was different from theirs, and overall very willing to change their mind if those initial impressions were wrong.

Overall, my impression is that they're passionate about power-scaling as a hobby, and do strive for accuracy over just forcing their own initial interpretation- why else would they be repeatedly asking for clarification from someone they feel is a reliable source?

That said, their initial impressions have historically been a lot higher than mine- which I think is a hint towards what may have led them to think those alternative translations were more appropriate. It occurs to me that never using an alternative suggestion for translations would probably lead to obvious inaccuracies and determination it was indeed MTL.

If I had to guess, they were using the alternative suggestions they thought fit with their idea of accuracy, in an attempt to convey they had more mastery over the language than they actually did, and perhaps to throw off suspicion of straight-up MTL. I do not think it was an attempt to pass any revisions they didn't genuinely think were accurate and/or grief the wiki.

In summary, we can't really prove either way what their intentions were, which to me alone is reason not to punish them for them- but if we were guessing, they have not given me the impression of being someone to try and dishonestly manipulate statistics like that.

Okay. I suppose that seems reasonable to me as well then. I was neutral previously to reading your reasoning, but I suppose that it likely seems fine.

So I request this to be implemented. (By permission gained from Ant)

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Acknowledging that they have inquired arguments for this thread, that said argument being the starting one/original post through the word of Moriarty from their deleted messages, belonging to the banned user AstralTrinity from off-site. It is not the first time they have been reported as one would know, having been warned previously via their behavior in a prior tensura-related thread, so any action taken would be appreciated.

Sadly, this argument doesn't really work since we all work together on CRTs. And yes, both Astral and Tempest Dragon are included in the discussion, as well as some other Tensura scalers. (Though that said, this CRT was made far to early than intended)

So the arguments that it's "Astral's arguments" are false, since we all worked on them together. So both Oblivion and Moriarity's claims are false.

 

[Tempestdragon6]

First time for me making a report, but I would like to report @Tempestdragon6, through the means of screenshots provided by @OblivionOfTheEndless.

Acknowledging that they have inquired arguments for this thread, that said argument being the starting one/original post through the word of Moriarty from their deleted messages, belonging to the banned user AstralTrinity from off-site. It is not the first time they have been reported as one would know, having been warned previously via their behavior in a prior tensura-related thread, so any action taken would be appreciated.

as far your concern I asked astral for help on making our arguments for that thread and we don't have malicious intent, It's not like he is using my account to be puppet account

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

First time for me making a report, but I would like to report @Tempestdragon6, through the means of screenshots provided by @OblivionOfTheEndless.

Acknowledging that they have inquired arguments for this thread, that said argument being the starting one/original post through the word of Moriarty from their deleted messages, belonging to the banned user AstralTrinity from off-site. It is not the first time they have been reported as one would know, having been warned previously via their behavior in a prior tensura-related thread, so any action taken would be appreciated.

Don’t think this is entirely banned anyway.

 

[Tempestdragon6]

And also according to wiki rules this not violation at all unless the person that is banned is using this account as a pupet

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Obliviuss

That was necessary? ‍

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

That was necessary? ‍

****.... I hate my name sense...

Fixed it now. (Thank you for telling me, and I deeply apologize for my mistake @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless ) I am truly garbage with names...

 

[Antvasima]

So, I would be fine with not taking action as well, and think I would prefer it actually.
Especially since the person who made the report in the first place is seemingly feeling remorseful about it.

That said, I think it would only be fair if we also didn't punish MeiouHades and instead strive to reach an understanding between them and deal with the toxicity going on in general instead.

I think that this seems reasonable.

 

[Antvasima]

This case has seemingly been accepted by 3 staff, and 1 is against it. No new arguments or votes have come in days, and the appeal was from weeks ago, with relatively low activity.

So I request this to be implemented. (By permission gained from Ant)

This seems fine to me, but what should we modify their ban text to, and what would be the new end date of their ban?

 

[Antvasima]

@DarkDragonMedeus @Just_a_Random_Butler @Agnaa @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @GrathOfLux @Dereck03 @Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist @JustSomeWeirdo @Theglassman12 @Duedate8898 @Armorchompy @CrimsonStarFallen @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo @FinePoint @Elizio33 @Mr._Propeller_Hat @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Catzlaflame @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Nierre @Reiner04 @Dalesean027 @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless

Just a regular reminder that our community greatly needs your continuous participation here.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

This seems fine to me, but what should we modify their ban text to, and what would be the new end date of their ban?

Not sure, the original ban was 3 months, so the ban should be reset to that time. (It was extended to 6 months)

So around 3 months after March 14... I just realized that would mean he would be unbanned? (I forgot the date he was banned, was this long ago)

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Noted. We need to provide an unbanning reason text in that case though.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

This seems fine to me, but what should we modify their ban text to, and what would be the new end date of their ban?

They will be unbanned. It has been at least 4 months already .as my comment towards you was march 14th

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Okay. Noted. We need to provide an unbanning reason text in that case though.

"The extension for the 3 month ban to 6 months has been removed to the original 3 months."

Something like this should work

 

[Antvasima]

We need to write actual proper reasons.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

So far, it's me, you, and Bambu in agreement with reducing the ban duration.

Reiner is currently the only opposition, but they also said: "I will be fine if other staffs decided to give him second chance."

Regardless, I will try to convince them.

It is my understanding there is no actual proof of intentional manipulation. The primary thing brought up prior was that no popular machine translators used the specific words provided, which would imply their arbitrary insertion.

However, Astral proved that these words are accepted as alternative translations on those machine translators, which means it's not impossible they simply thought those alternatives were more fitting for whatever reason.

Intention is very hard to prove, and perhaps this is just because I grew up in the United States, but I believe that the default assumption should be innocence unless there's actual evidence to the contrary. That they frequently gave bad translations via MTL there is undeniable evidence for, and a 3 month ban was already agreed on for this. The extension was explicitly under the suspicion it was done intentionally, which I think there is no such evidence for.

Still, I'm not blind to the fact that personal judgement is sometimes needed when a line is repeatedly walked on, and that sometimes an intuition can be acted on. From that perspective, I have my own personal experiences with Astral's character to weigh in too, if we insist on trying to guess their intentions.

For the last two weeks or so, Astral has been talking to me over Discord (presumably because they're banned on the forum), and in short, asking me a lot of questions about various parts of the tiering system, providing examples, if something qualifies for a certain rating or ability, etc.

They've regularly provided me with additional context when asked, been very polite if my impression was different from theirs, and overall very willing to change their mind if those initial impressions were wrong.

Overall, my impression is that they're passionate about power-scaling as a hobby, and do strive for accuracy over just forcing their own initial interpretation- why else would they be repeatedly asking for clarification from someone they feel is a reliable source?

That said, their initial impressions have historically been a lot higher than mine- which I think is a hint towards what may have led them to think those alternative translations were more appropriate. It occurs to me that never using an alternative suggestion for translations would probably lead to obvious inaccuracies and determination it was indeed MTL.

If I had to guess, they were using the alternative suggestions they thought fit with their idea of accuracy, in an attempt to convey they had more mastery over the language than they actually did, and perhaps to throw off suspicion of straight-up MTL. I do not think it was an attempt to pass any revisions they didn't genuinely think were accurate and/or grief the wiki.

In summary, we can't really prove either way what their intentions were, which to me alone is reason not to punish them for them- but if we were guessing, they have not given me the impression of being someone to try and dishonestly manipulate statistics like that.

I know it’s already been settled and that you’re going to unban him, but as someone who has been involved in the verse, I don’t feel like what you said is true just because you spoke to him offsite. No machine translation would claim some translation note or extra detail for something that isn’t actually in the raw text. Can you show me which MTL would give you this explanation, specifically the claim about a different dimension being beyond time or having 4D timelines? This was used by them to push the verse to Tier 1 through another case of translation manipulation.

There is clear misconduct in the use of MTL. They act as if they know Japanese and replace words in a way that suits their scaling arguments, even though the kanji do not correlate.

亜空間には、常に位相の変動が生じている。それは予測出来るものではなく、それに巻き込まれた ならば、どんな異次元空間へ飛ばされるか予測不可能なのだ。
In the Subspace, there are always Phase Fluctuations. It's not something you can predict. If you get caught up in it, it's impossible to predict what kind of extra-dimensional space you will be transported to.

{Translator's Note: The "Extra-Dimensional Space" is referring to the Empty Space after the End of the Universe/Timeline[aka "Beyond Time" and/or Outside the 4D Timelines}

And this translator's note—I don't see any fluent, trustworthy Japanese translator making such clear-cut mistakes. Adding a note to explain something like "extra-dimensional space," despite there being no kanji that actually corresponds to this, is highly questionable

Astral tried to defend this with his chinese dictionary instead admitting it's a Mistranslation. Really questions his honesty here.

Official Translation Requests Thread (New forum)

1. I had transIated this before too, here, so is the following correct as well? If Vergrind remembers correctly, his father was the owner of the piece of Rudra's “soul”. His name was Laurent Hayes, and he had been Rudra's companion from the time of his youth until his death. There were many...

vsbattles.com

Personally, I don’t trust this as just some MTL error simply because he spoke to you offsite and has shown good behavior. I don’t think that alone justifies his actions or his attempts to scale the verse higher using mistranslations.

Anyway, I just wanted to say this. I don’t mind him being unbanned, but he’s not going to earn some people’s trust regarding translations so easily given his past behavior. Just wanted to make that clear.

 

[RitsuØ1]

I side with @EldemadeDityjon. Manipulating scans despite knowing it’s a mistranslation and using MTL as an advantage for CRTs. The “Japanese Site” links to Chinese Translation to English which is a huge lie and a sign of dishonesty. This is a big no for me and would prefer to keep his ban duration the same, not reduced.

 

[Antvasima]

@FinePoint @Mr. Bambu @Reiner04

What do you think about the information in the above two posts?

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

@FinePoint @Mr. Bambu @Reiner04

What do you think about the information in the above two posts?

Just a small heads-up, I am pretty sure this was included in the first report made by Agnaa?

So yes, what Elde is showing has already been reported and punched before by @Agnaa, here

(calling a Chinese website Japanese, and using that to justify a certain translation)

So they are deliberately using a fact that has already been proven and punched before, but presenting it as "New" evidence

 

[Reiner04]

@FinePoint @Mr. Bambu @Reiner04

What do you think about the information in the above two posts?

I've already stated my position. I don't think Astral's use of alternative words from translations to fit his agenda or to forcibly achieve higher end of translation can be considered free of dishonesty. We know how the entire verse achieved Tier 1 status them. What Elde presented further shows those pattern of dishonesty, about how he argued Japanese mistranslations using a Chinese dictionary instead of acknowledging his part. My opinion remains unchanged given this consistent behavior.

Just a small heads-up, I am pretty sure this was included in the first report made by Agnaa?

So yes, what Elde is showing has already been reported and punched before by @Agnaa, here

So they are deliberately using a fact that has already been proven and punched before, but presenting it as "New" evidence

Agnaa brought this issue in the context of mistranslation, whereas Elde brought it in the context of dishonesty. Intent is at question here not the act itself.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@FinePoint @Mr. Bambu @Reiner04

What do you think about the information in the above two posts?

Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

If this was intentional than its a report worthy. I think it was genuine miscommunication rather than an intentional action.

vsbattles.com

Earlier in this thread, I announced that Astral's translations should not be used as evidence unless they have been thoroughly and explicitly confirmed by translation helpers.Recently, it seems like Astral has, by his own admission, violated that.

I'd suggest a 1-6 month ban for this, what do others think?

Agnaa’s comment for extending the ban was that Astral didn’t listen and still used his translation despite Agnaa banning them. The current reason for unbanning seems odd, though, because it’s not about his translation being wrong — it’s about him actively ignoring staff warnings from what I see. Really need to check previous extension report.

Edit: seems like I misunderstood and got first report so ignore.

Just a small heads-up, I am pretty sure this was included in the first report made by Agnaa?

So yes, what Elde is showing has already been reported and punched before by @Agnaa, here

So they are deliberately using a fact that has already been proven and punched before, but presenting it as "New" evidence

Dude, you should fully read what I said. It doesn’t matter if that was covered in the first report — I was pointing out his dishonesty, not re-reporting him. I was clarifying that what he did had nothing to do with MTL alone. Also, from the previous report, you’ve been trying to defend him with everything you’ve got. We can see the effort, but let’s not be dishonest about certain things here. I literally said I don’t mind him getting unbanned; I was just pointing out the dishonest part. So next time, when you want to defend Astral’s misdeeds, at least read the full reply of others.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Dude, you should fully read what I said. It doesn’t matter if that was covered in the first report — I was pointing out his dishonesty, not re-reporting him. I was clarifying that what he did had nothing to do with MTL alone. Also, from the previous report, you’ve been trying to defend him with everything you’ve got. We can see the effort, but let’s not be dishonest about certain things here. I literally said I don’t mind him getting unbanned; I was just pointing out the dishonest part. So next time, when you want to defend Astral’s misdeeds, at least read the full reply of others.

Yes, I realized what you said, what I had issues with was how it was framed.

Also, love how the comment you quoted was his first proposal, when it was decided that it would be a 3-month ban. So don't try to make it sound like the 6-month ban that we are discussing has anything to do with Agnaa.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yes, I realized what you said, what I had issues with was how it was framed.

You mean providing evidence that someone you're trying to defend is showing dishonest behavior is the wrong thing here? Anyway message me on Tensura discussion thread if you really want to defend his Translation manipulation (I mean if you don't like how I pointed it out), this isn’t the place for this, so let’s stop this here and let the staffs evaluate.

Also, love how the comment you quoted was his first proposal, when it was decided that it would be a 3-month ban. So don't try to make it sound like the 6-month ban that we are discussing has anything to do with Agnaa.

Yeah just realised that my bad. So just ignore it. I'll cross that out. Using site in mobile is hard to find relevant posts lmao

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I've already stated my position. I don't think Astral's use of alternative words from translations to fit his agenda or to forcibly achieve higher end of translation can be considered free of dishonesty. We know how the entire verse achieved Tier 1 status them.

Tier 1 was Not achieved through a mistranslation. It was accepted based on the fact that the characters were tier 2. Qawsed even says that regardless of the evidence that was presented, he would have still declined if not for that.

The only thing “manipulated” was the fact that the timeline was destroyed. Which was proven as true even without alternative mtl translation.most of the scans had otl and fan TL along with astral translations so that all 3 could be seen.

What Elde presented further shows those pattern of dishonesty, about how he argued Japanese mistranslations using a Chinese dictionary instead of acknowledging his part. My opinion remains unchanged given this consistent behavior.

He argued that contextually that is the only thing that made sense, as yet again his translations are based on choosing the alternative translations based on context. This isn’t a case of dishonesty,it is the same shi about translating based on context.with it being an Alternative translation. He doesn’t know Japanese so he didn’t know mtl was wrong. Mistook Chinese for Japanese.

Agnaa brought this issue in the context of mistranslation, whereas Elde brought it in the context of dishonesty. Intent is at question here not the act itself.

Agnaa says that he was insistent on using it as evidence. So the context is still about dishonesty which is debunked by the fact he never put words that weren’t suggested by mtl.


This is what astral had to say

Regarding this.

First off, I don't replace words with my own. I only use alternatives at first.

Also, MTL is not always context. Sometimes even the first translation says "extra dimensional space". Otherwise it's one of the top alternatives

So this is not dishonestly in any case

The "translator's note" isn't even about the kanji, it's about the meaning of the term in the novel itself and what structure in the verse it refers to. Not all translators notes have to be about japanese translators explaining kanji.

The Chinese dictionary was something I myself at the time didn't know was Chinese, because I literally searched for the japanese kanji on Google and those were the dictionary sites it gave me. And I even admitted I didn't know the difference between Chinese and Japanese kanji much at that time when Agnaa initially warned me. So that issue was clearly resolved then and there.