Dragon Ball Franchise AP Downgrade

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Hi everyone! This is a crt thread to downgrade the Dragonball Franchise. This thread will debunk Tier 1.

Currently, all tier 1 ratings in Dragonball come from the hyper timeline argument. This thread will show that the hyper timeline doesn't exist and is contradicted by the show.

1. The basis of the Hyper timeline

The basis of the hyper timeline is the Room of Time. This is a room that is located in the Lookout that Mr. Popo describes as a place where all of spacetime, the past, present, and future is created. This room alone loadbearing beam for the entire hyper timeline. The blogs (here and here) go into much deeper into that. You read all about it, but you don't need to have a in depth understanding as this thread is not about debunking these blogs. All you need to know is that because the Time Room serves as the source of the universes timeline, that means its timeline is separate from the rest of the universes. It is then assumed that all other universes have their own separate timelines. A hypothetical hyper timeline is then concocted to house these separate timelines that each have their own separate origin points.

(For some reason there is an assumption that all universes have their own room of times even though no evidence is given of such a thing being the case but that is not important.)

2. While the statements of the time room are legitimate statements that occur in the show, the scope of time room is not in anyway legitimate and should be considered an outlier or PIS. The timeroom cannot be the source of space and time in the universe because the time room has been destroyed on many occasions.

A. In Dragon Ball Z ep. 277, Buu destroys the earth.
B. In Dragon Ball Super ep. 27, Frieza destroys the earth

In both these occasions, earth has been destroyed. This means the Lookout has been destroyed, which also means the Time Room has been destroyed. In both scenarios, time and space of the universe did not collapse. If the Time Room is the source of spacetime for the Universe then, destroying it would end the universe yet its destruction does nothing to the universe.

Also remember that in Dragon Ball Super, Battle of the Gods, the whole plot point is that Beerus wanted to destroy the earth. Yet, the destruction of earth rings no alarm for being a existential threat of the universe. Beerus and Whis should have full awareness of the importance of earth to the universe, yet they treat it like nothing special.

And it never really made sense to me. The earth is 4 billion years old and is younger than the entire universe. Why would a room in a man-made structure actually be the source of the universe's time and space?

In conclusion, the time room has no bearing on the cosmology and the supporters of this rating are using a one-off anime only filler to pad the cosmology and inflate ratings for the entire franchise. The statement from the filler can be disregarded as an unsubstantiated outlier or PIS.

Without the timeroom argument, the entire hypertimeline argument falls apart, and the series goes back to ratings it had before the hypertimeline blog was accepted. The Macrocosm isn't Hyper Time, It's just a regular multiverse.

Tally:
Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

I do not say this lightly.

Genuinely one of the funniest fcking things I've ever seen happen on this site.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Bro is not even trying to hide it Lmaoo

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Lol all this over Sailor Moon.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

So for the kids at home, what this is called is a 'spite downgrade'. You see, OP's favorite verse has recently been in the hot seat for let's just say, questionable upgrades and ratings. Now that things aren't going his way, he will attempt this controversial maneuver of attempting to downgrade the verse of those he feels are 'attacking' his verse.

Remember kids, this behavior won't be accepted on your local playgrounds!

 

[MeiouHades]

Alright everyone, I know we just wanna roll over and laugh the heck out of this, but we can do that later. It's still a CRT that we need to counter to have it closed, so let's just address these "arguments" like we would for any normal CRT and get this over with.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

It's so blatant that this is a spiteful CRT, what?

I'm watching this fight from the outside, but I've seen you making direct insults to some users like "can't you guys read?", and now this completely blatant spiteful CRT basically made on the same day your favorite verse receives an attempted downgrade from some DB supporters, who are the main opponents of your Sailor Moon 1-A upgrade CRT.

Like, man, this is easily denounced without offense.

 

[RoninSlayer200]

Why does bro even think Time Room is the source of the entire Hypertimeline? Did you even read the blog properly?

 

[Damage3245]

A. In Dragon Ball Z ep. 277, Buu destroys the earth.
B. In Dragon Ball Super ep. 27, Frieza destroys the earth

In both these occasions, earth has been destroyed. This means the Lookout has been destroyed, which also means the Time Room has been destroyed.

I don't have a vote for this, but if your point is that the Lookout is destroyed why not bring up the scene where it is specifically destroyed in chapter 300 of DBZ instead of mentioning the Earth being destroyed?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I don't have a vote for this, but if your point is that the Lookout is destroyed why not bring up the scene where it is specifically destroyed in chapter 300 of DBZ instead of mentioning the Earth being destroyed?

This is because the scene that says the Time Room is the source of space and time for the entire universe only happens in a filler episode of the anime. It is not cannon to the manga in anyway.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I mean if the whole argument is that the Earth’s been destroyed; therefore, the dimensions would have to be you’d have to prove it works like that. The doors used to enter those dimensions are merely entrances made to enter those alternate dimensions. Also, you’re completely ignoring the other evidences that were used, such as neutral space, the fact that different worlds having different time dimensions is name dropped, the separation of dimensions with a void with no concept of space and time, and etc.

To demonstrate this as well back in the past you used to only be able to visit the RoSaT a couple times or the entrance would lock on you, and the fact that Piccolo can destroy the entrance the world in the Buu Saga, but it doesn’t mean the literal world itself is suddenly vaporized.

You’ve been attacking people for not being able to read or form proper arguments, but you’re doing it here yourself. You should probably read the blogs properly, and done some research on the series.

 

[MeiouHades]

This is because the scene that says the Time Room is the source of space and time for the entire universe only happens in a filler episode of the anime. It is not cannon to the manga in anyway.

Well unfortunately for you, we got that sorted out and accepted as part of the anime cosmology when we canonized Kai to DBS Anime, since DBS Anime no longer follows from the Manga at all. Please read the canonicity blog first. Kai itself follows from the OG Anime, not the manga. We have ENTIRELY separated manga and anime continuities

 

[TiltedFN]

Despite this being an OBVIOUS spite downgrade, you still didn't even TRY to put in a little research for this "debunk". The time room is literally an alternate dimension. Destroying the lookout does NOT destroy the time room, or the ROSAT. And you would NEVER be able to prove they do. Especially since piccolo destroyed the entrance and everything remained, which proves that the lookout has no bearing on the separate spaces themselves. With that out of the way, let me inform you that the macrocosm is not being argued to be a hypertimeline, god knows where you got that from, but its blatantly wrong. You're just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. And Its funny how you think the time room is the only argument for hypertimelines when we had a crt a long time ago that ended up serving as extra evidence for hypertimelines. That being the inbetween axis of the neutral zone. Which holds the macrocosms, which have their own time axis. All of that is spanned by the higher timeline to result in a hypertimeline.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I mean if the whole argument is that the Earth’s been destroyed; therefore, the dimensions would have to be you’d have to prove it works like that.

The Time Room isn't a dimension. It's just a regular room, that they walk into. When they activate to go to the "past", it creates some warp that takes goku to the past. But the room it self is not a dimension.

Also there is no statements or evidence stating that its a dimension.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

The time room is literally an alternate dimension.

Okay. Provide evidence saying this. From the episode, we clearly see Goku and Popo just walk through some doors.

 

[MeiouHades]

The Time Room isn't a dimension. It's just a regular room, that they walk into. When they activate to go to the "past", it creates some warp that takes goku to the past. But the room it self is not a dimension.

Also there is no statements or evidence stating that its a dimension.

...they literally travel to the past in a single room, while the the world outside has no freaking clue of what's going on. It quite literally is a dimension. Also are you confusing the time room and the pendulum room again?

 

[LordDestroit10K]

Dragon Ball Z ep. 277, Buu destroys the earth.
B. In Dragon Ball Super ep. 27, Frieza destroys the earth

Destroying the earth is not the same that destroying the dimension. Just like destroying the planet doesn’t affect ROSAT, and the other places of Kami’s lookout like the Realm of Gods and Sages are described as alternate dimensions.

Shinsenkai: an alternate dimension

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[TiltedFN]

Okay. Provide evidence saying this. From the episode, we clearly see Goku and Popo just walk through some doors.

Lmao go ahead and play the clip a bit longer. So confident in being wrong.

 

[Damage3245]

So far the opposition makes the most sense to me.

This thread ain't it.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

The Time Room isn't a dimension. It's just a regular room, that they walk into. When they activate to go to the "past", it creates some warp that takes goku to the past. But the room it self is not a dimension.

Also there is no statements or evidence stating that its a dimension.

The Time Room is a dimension, and this blog here outlines how and why it is. The Time Room having a door doesn’t contradict it being an alternate dimension. The Room of Spirit and Time is also a dimension, but it has a door entrance to it. Can you please actually debunk the RoSaT & Time Room being dimensions?

 

[MeiouHades]

So far the opposition makes the most sense to me.

This thread ain't it.

I owe you a hamburger (please tell me you get the reference)

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

...they literally travel to the past in a single room, while the the world outside has no freaking clue of what's going on. It quite literally is a dimension. Also are you confusing the time room and the pendulum room again?

No, it's literally just a room that allows for time travel. Also, a portal opens up in the room and Goku gets bfr'd to the past. So you can't even argue that the time travel happens inside the room.

 

[Killerdrone123]

1)Time room is not the only evidence for universes in DB having there own time dimension they are mentioned in the db cosmology blog
2)There is a subspace devoid of concept of space and time between the realms/dimensions of macrocosm that separates them making the said realms have there own time dimension
3)Elder kai statement also reinforce the idea how every universe have there own time dimension
4)One of the main argumentd for db hypertimeline is how time travel works in the verse making the said timeline hypertimeline.

 

[TiltedFN]

No, it's literally just a room that allows for time travel. Also, a portal opens up in the room and Goku gets bfr'd to the past. So you can't even argue that the time travel happens inside Funny how you ignored my comment of telling you to play the clip a bit longer, where goku literally falls endlessly until he ends up where he needs to go.

Funny how you ignored my comment of telling you to play the clip just a few seconds longer. Where it literally shows goku falling endlessly until he ends up where he needs to be.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

10/10, Debunk. You have done well researching and preparing this, with no spite or other intentions. I agree with this downgrade.

Alright, let's get serious. While Dragon Ball has many flaws and anti-feats, and the low 1C timeline was heavily controversial, you have successfully missed stuff that would support your cause, proving a lack of research and knowledge for the verse.

Hell, even some of the arguments you made have much stronger support from other scene's proving the true intentions of this "Downgrade CRT"

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

The Time Room is a dimension, and this blog here outlines how and why it is. The Time Room having a door doesn’t contradict it being an alternate dimension. The Room of Spirit and Time is also a dimension, but it has a door entrance to it. Can you please actually debunk the RoSaT & Time Room being dimensions?

Actually the blog says, "The Time Room should be a pocket dimension adjacent to the Living World.:

It says, "should be" meaning its' just an assumption.

So far the opposition makes the most sense to me.

This thread ain't it.

Look above if you don't mind. The blog they link says, that the time room "should be" a pocket dimension, meaning they have no evidence that is a pocket dimension. And again, GOku and pop just walk through a pair of sliding doors.

Time Room is a dimension is just an unsubstantiated assumption. Just because the Rosat is a dimension, doesn't mean every room in the Lookout point is a dimension too.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

The low 1-C rating can quite literally exist without the time room anyways

 

[TiltedFN]

Actually the blog says, "The Time Room should be a pocket dimension adjacent to the Living World.:

It says, "should be" meaning its' just an assumption.

An assumption that is LITERALLY correct based on what we see. It is not limited to its physical properties or what we see initially. Like I said, in the same clip YOU posted, it shows how its another dimension. Can this even be called an assumption? Its just blatantly true.

Look above if you don't mind. The blog they link says, that the time room "should be" a pocket dimension, meaning they have no evidence that is a pocket dimension. And again, GOku and pop just walk through a pair of sliding doors.

Time Room is a dimension is just an unsubstantiated assumption. Just because the Rosat is a dimension, doesn't mean every room in the Lookout point is a dimension too.

You have no evidence it isn't. This is your thread and you have yet to prove a single claim.

 

[MeiouHades]

Actually the blog says, "The Time Room should be a pocket dimension adjacent to the Living World.:

It says, "should be" meaning its' just an assumption.

And the blog is accepted.

Look above if you don't mind. The blog they link says, that the time room "should be" a pocket dimension, meaning they have no evidence that is a pocket dimension. And again, GOku and pop just walk through a pair of sliding doors.

Time Room is a dimension is just an unsubstantiated assumption. Just because the Rosat is a dimension, doesn't mean every room in the Lookout point is a dimension too.

It quite literally functions as a dimension by sending them to the "past' while the outside world is just.... going on without a clue or care in the world. And by the way every single dimension on the Lookout is stated to be a pocket or alternate dimension, this may not explicitly be called that but we already have a precedent for it with the other dimensions and it literally functions like an alternate dimension.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Least obvious ragebait

 

[StarShooter80]

Without the timeroom argument, the entire hypertimeline argument falls apart, and the series goes back to ratings it had before the hypertimeline blog was accepted. The Macrocosm isn't Hyper Time, It's just a regular multiverse.

I already disagree for previously said reasons as to why the timeroom isn’t proof, but even if it was false that’s not the only reason why a hypertimeline exists. Dimensions like the RoSaT (which is within the multiverse) have their own distinct time dimension, the living world and afterlife (both of which are accepted space-times) are their own dimensions/space-time, and of course sub-space.

 

[MeiouHades]

Along with what @Ednaxel2 said above, I also should mention this because OP did not do their research. The primary evidence for Low 1-C timelines, is NOT the time room. The primary evidence is the way time travel works, secondary evidence is how the neutral space and time itself works there. Now, let me help the OP here and remove some confusion. They're confused and are under the notion that the time room is what gives universe (the living universe) its own time axis, and if they were to remove it, the whole universe 7 may no longer be 2-C or even be Low 2-C. This is explicitly FALSE.

In our previous cosmology thread (before we even for the blog accepted which just made this point stronger), we had already accepted the cosmologies retaining their 2-C rating and the living universe and the Otherworld being two separate Low 2-C structure. Look no further for evidence of this than the Manga cosmology, it doesn't have any of this evidence and yet it still retains 2-C and will retain it forever basically. So no, OP, the time room just works as an extra but very useful piece of evidence for us to prove that the living universe has its own time axis/is Low 2-C on its own. The real evidence for Low 1-C timelines is way different and relies upon the universes being 2-C which they will remain anyway. Not to mention that the time room being "not a dimension" is a complete non-argument that Damage has already disagreed with anyway.

Also, OP, if I may then here's some advice. You have two major threads for your verse ongoing right now, one of them is a staff thread that is basically still awaiting your next move. Maybe this wasn't a great idea? I don't have the right to tell you what to do but.... I can't imagine it'd be easy for you to handle two major threads at once while also juggling a third downgrade for another verse. Just a thought, you may take it or leave it as you wish

 

[TheTenno07]

Without the timeroom argument, the entire hypertimeline argument falls apart, and the series goes back to ratings it had before the hypertimeline blog was accepted. The Macrocosm isn't Hyper Time, It's just a regular multiverse.

The fact that u called the macrocosm "Hyper time" only shows how blinded you are by the anger that supports of this verse are preventing you from updating your verse with incorrect information. No one here thinks that the macrocosm is hypertime nor that we depend on the time room, something you would know if instead of being upset and starting a downgrade you had read about 3 minutes of the blog of the hypertimelines

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

I don't have a vote for this, but if your point is that the Lookout is destroyed why not bring up the scene where it is specifically destroyed in chapter 300 of DBZ instead of mentioning the Earth being destroyed?

Even Damage is questioning thus downgrade.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

You guys are all going at once.

So I'll just post this here.

1. You guys are assuming the time room is a dimension, when there is zero statements stating that it's a dimension.
2. IF you watch the episode, Popo and Goku clearly walk through sliding doors to a physical room.
3. Popo activates a clock on the wall and a portal opens up that Goku then uses to time travel.

If a time machine opens up a portal inside itself, does that make the time machine a dimension?

A. You're assuming the time room is a pocket dimension
B. You're assuming that the otehr side of the portal is apart of the time room, and not just a time traveling motif that we see in fiction a million times.
C. You're assuming that if the time room is a pocket dimension, that the earth's destruction won't affect it.
D. You're assuming that the time room behaves just like the Rosat even though that is never stated.

THere are a lot of assumptions going on.

Extra ordinary claims require extra ordinary evidence.

 

[TheTenno07]

Even Damage is questioning thus downgrade.

How bad a downgrade has to be... TO MAKE AN OPPONENT OF THE VERSE IMMEDIATELY DISAGREE

 

[IvarUHQ]

It's a pity you say that destroying the Earth means destroying the Chamber of Time, knowing that the Chamber of Time is another dimension and that what was destroyed was only its arrival, not the dimension.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

You guys are all going at once.

So I'll just post this here.

1. You guys are assuming the time room is a dimension, when there is zero statements stating that it's a dimension.
2. IF you watch the episode, Popo and Goku clearly walk through sliding doors to a physical room.
3. Popo activates a clock on the wall and a portal opens up that Goku then uses to time travel.

If a time machine opens up a portal inside itself, does that make the time machine a dimension?

A. You're assuming the time room is a pocket dimension
B. You're assuming that the otehr side of the portal is apart of the time room, and not just a time traveling motif that we see in fiction a million times.
C. You're assuming that if the time room is a pocket dimension, that the earth's destruction won't affect it.
D. You're assuming that the time room behaves just like the Rosat even though that is never stated.

THere are a lot of assumptions going on.

Extra ordinary claims require extra ordinary evidence.

My guy, what do you not understand? The Room of Spirit and Time is also an alternate dimension, but they use doors to enter it.

Here is an example: 0:55

The fact that they use doors is not a defeater.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

It's a pity you say that destroying the Earth means destroying the Chamber of Time, knowing that the Chamber of Time is another dimension and that what was destroyed was only its arrival, not the dimension.

?? I said that destroying earth, means the lookout point is destruction, and that would mean the room of time is also destruction as the room of time is a room inside the look out point.

Again, please feel free to post any actual statements that say the room of time is a dimension.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

My guy, what do you not understand? The Room of Spirit and Time is also an alternate dimension, but they use doors to enter it.

Here is an example: 0:55

The fact that they use doors is not a defeater.

The Rosat has statements stating it's another dimension. The room of time doesn't. Hope that helps.