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When you try and promote it on other threads, yes, it is against the rules. Making too many inaccurate and unreliable calcs will result in your calculation-making rights being revoked.
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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)
- Thread starter Antvasima
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We can't control what you do in your spare time.
It's trying to ask leading questions for the purposes of using on them on this site/wiki that is the issue.
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Oh sorry about that then. Quick question; is promoting any calc on other threads against the rules or just inaccurate ones?
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So if I post it to X or Reddit but stay clear from here, I'm good? Kinda want to know as I'm 99% expecting a temp or full ban soon and would like to know for my spare time
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NO!? Why are you still insistent on asking authors such questions? You're already facing a ban. Let it go, man, for your own sake.
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As I said, they didn't start off as scaling, just lore, but it has been spoken. So I won't.
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Reporting @Tuxidoe_Redo for the constant derailment in this thread despite being told to stop.
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Wait is this reportable? I just mentioned the verse got jumped and thats it. Seems like the site is very strict
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This comment tells a different story:
As others conveyed to you in that thread, the reasoning is pretty simple: the authors don't really consider all this stuff when they write the works, so if some fan goes in and asks them "hey! when you said universe A is 'higher' than universe B, did you mean that it's uncountably infinitely greater in a way that I can characterized it as R^5" they're gonna be like "wtf is this guy saying, erm sure I guess?" which leads to artificially inflated stats.
Admittedly, thats an exagerration compared to what happened here, but its the same thing fundamentally; at the end of the day what matters is that its in our rules and we expect you to abide by it while on the wiki.
Nobody's gonna endorse that, but again, not really our area, do as you will.
As far as ban lengths me thinks 3 months is very steep. We banned the ninjago guy for 2 months, and he outright didn't even admit to the leading-question-asking. That paired with the fact that he started seeming more regretful towards the end, leads me to support a 2 week ban, but willing to go to 1 month if others want to.
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@Tuxidoe_Redo You're literally derailing the thread with unnecessary comments and was told to stop and you're trying to belittle someone just for telling you to cut it out, it is report worthy if you just blatantly ignore the warnings people are giving you.
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I think a perma-ban or a long-term ban is pretty extreme. A warning not to do it anymore or a short ~1 month ban would be more warranted. Successive or constant breaking of the rule would need to be done before a perma-ban in my view.
I mean, we have no control over other sites. The WoG rules for here exist because we don't want people to bug authors to try and get characters to X-versal for upgrades. If other platforms allow those questions, sure, but ultimately we don't and we don't allow statements being asked in that fashion to be used.
The official rules can be read here:
And here
In a purely non-admin role, I would ask that you don't pester an author about if a character can do X thing or is Y strong. It would probably be worth more to ask stuff about character development, plot questions, or explanations on some confusing aspect. If you still want to do it, then yes, the behaviour done off-site can still lead to on-site issues.
I'm fine with a ban for Tuxidoe. At the very least they shouldn't be in that thread.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
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He told you it was. You continued.
That said, I don't think we should extend a ban here. It's blatantly typical trolling shit but it isn't odd that people occasionally dip into such behavior, and I don't want to make a habit of killing people for goofing off one (1) time, even if it is derailment. Tuxidoe isn't a new user and doesn't have any warnings on the tracker, I think we can just extend a warning not to do that again and move on.
MeiouHades
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Hi, I just wanna say that this isn't just one (1) time. There have been numerous times where this user "goofs" like this and causes constant derailment and will double down on it whenever I or someone else tries to get them to stop, typically deflecting our warnings with pointless statements like the one he just made in response to me in that thread. This is repeated behavior, not one time
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Would the rest of you be fine with a two weeks ban as well? It seems reasonable to me, but I am also willing to extend it to 1 month if other staff members disagree.
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While on the topic, if we have evidence on a user that committed to derailments such as goofying around many times, it counts as a rule violation correct?
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Here's a couple of screenshots of this user constantly being told to stop trolling and derailing threads for absolutely no reason. And these are only the ones I found in a short amount of time. Not sure how he hasn't received an official warning yet, but this is a constant behavioral pattern that occurs every time this user comments and it gets quite annoying. This user knows what they are doing yet they refuse to learn from their mistakes.
Mr. Bambu
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Derailment is a rule violation, yeah. Goofing off in a F&G thread is fine, General Discussion varies, CRTs are a no-no.
Yeah, that sucks. I'd be in favor of a short ban, gut says somewhere to the tune of a month or so.
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A month sounds fine to me.
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Ok what about versus threads?
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I would like to quickly apologize for unknowingly starting this drama.
Now that I know that WOG is banned, should we remove the Stolas vs Alastor stuff?
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I promise wholeheartedly to never try that here regardless
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You did nothing, it's all on me man
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
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I've gone ahead and applied a one month ban for Tuxidoe_Redo. Consider the matter resolved.
Any thread with a set focus probably shouldn't be derailed. Versus threads are not enshrined in the same way CRTs are, so there's room for jokes and so on, but if people tell you to knock it off, you probably should.
MeiouHades
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Speakin' of shady practices, I do wanna report user @Iamunanimousinthat now for a coupla' things. I've been sittin' on this report for a while hoping I won't need to post it but recently and especially now it has become clear that I have to do it, unfortunately. It's gonna include several things so please do read it all.
First thing's first, the shady practices. The user have repeatedly tried to use multiple versions of the same scan (the latest official ones, that we would and should generally use in all CRTs and profiles and older, slightly mistranslated ones), and the user does this knowing this while possessing the latest scans. A few examples of this are:
This is from the recent Low 1-A staff thread here
The second instance and third instance of it comes from the latest thread here where they repeatedly use two different versions of this and this scan as well as two different version of this and this scan as well. Now the latter of these is something that @Theglassman12 has repeatedly(1) tried(2) asking(3) @Iamunanimousinthat to stop doing but they just will not listen. Now my problem here is that this is BLATANT scan or context manipulation that's goin' here. Even if one were to argue that they're similar translations or can be "interpreted one way or the other" (which itself is debatable for some of these), the fact remains that they are deliberately manipulating context here by choosing and picking whichever scan or version of scans fits their agenda the best and often using them at the same time (as all of these examples show) just because it states exactly what they're looking for. I don't think we've ever allowed this kind of thing to pass unchecked for any verse and rightfully so, this is blatant manipulation here.
Now, onto the second part of this report. I'd also like to tell everyone that @Iamunanimousinthat tried down a spite downgrade against Tier 1 Dragon Ball in that thread. How do I know it's spite? Well, for one you can peep the thread itself and see both the quality of the arguments, and the general sentiment from both users and mods alike. Now, that alone isn't enough to prove spite, so here's another reason. That thread was closed with not even 2 moderator disagree votes. Only @Damage3245 there disagreed, @Maverick_Zero_X and @Theglassman12 did show up but I didn't see any of them explicitly disagreeing with it. So that Tier 1 thread was actually closed and dismissed before 3 moderator disagrees (and ideally for a Tier 1 DB thread you need way more than that) and before grace had even passed, it wasn't a serious downgrade; as I said, a spite thread.
Now the most damning piece of evidence for it however comes from Discord screenshots, so I hope everyone reading this is fine if I post them. Normally I don't wanna include stuff like Discord chats in reports for obvious reasons but, since I am making a report and evidence is needed, I'll have to share it. So here goes. This screenshot has them protesting how they were being asked to provide evidence for their claims (in the Low 1-A staff thread) but Dragon Ball's time room "gets to be a dimension" (which was the main crux of their "downgrade", in case you didn't want to read the thread itself).
The next screenshots are this and this. They claim that they made an entire downgrade thread because..... some comments on that Sailor Moon general were (admittedly so) off-topic/goofy, and to be fair Bambu did later ask us to knock it off and we did but this is way before that. To save you the trouble of searching, this is the post they're referring to. Just an image of the main DBZ gang in response to a comment that literally says "main DBZ gang". Again, it was off-topic admittedly, but it was also just a bit of goofing around (at that point) in the thread, not targeting anyone, nothing. This was, what they claim at least, their reason to try a spite Tier 1 downgrade for Dragon Ball. And also to drive that point home, it came right as our Operation Star Destroyer (I came up with the name btw) starting racking up lots of agreements from mods and users alike. So this should definitively prove that this was a spite downgrade, not a well-intended revision nor a serious one.
And last but certainly not the least I'd also like to report their general behavior towards me and almost anyone who has disagreed with them recently. There's just too many examples to list here so I'm just gonna list the ones that I found the most damning or the ones targeted towards me, I'm sure the mods can look for other statements like these (not sure how the warning tracker works so correct me if I'm wrong) or I can provide them later if I'm asked to.
Here they basically imply that asking for stuff to be spelled out is for kindergarteners
Here, here (calling me knowingly/deliberately dishonest), here (stating that I am trying to "defame" them, painting me as malicious), here (in the staff thread no less), here (once again accusing me of being malicious and painting them or other supporters in a bad light, even when I denied multiple times that I am NOT accusing them of the mistranslated scan and I still don't), here (accusing me and others of being toxic and childish, and this is also not exactly a great way to ask a mod to evaluate a thread), here (exact same thing). Just generally attacking me, calling me a knowing, bold-face liar, calling me deliberately dishonest, constantly accusing me of painting them in a bad light or having some malicious intent against them or their threads and whatnot. Most of these accusations I've just taken on the chin and never even questioned back. There has been one instance (in the High 1-A+ thread) where I did sort of get fed up of this constant toxicity and did threaten to report them for lying too (but I didn't because I realized it was a stupid accusation).
And just overall a constant barrage of misdemeanor towards all those that disagree with them or tell them to reconsider their approach including mods (this one sounds weirdly threatening, I'm impressed at how calmly Glass handled it). And also the latest statement here lol, don't even know what to make of this: "The fact and you and glassman want to purposefully paint me out as being malicious over the most pettiest and trivial shit ever, is ******* sad and pathetic."
So yeah, I am compiling this entire post to report @Iamunanimousinthat for all of this. I am aware that the user has been reported before for misdemeanor with staff and users before, I'm here to show that this is continuing to an extent that I believe is unbearable and not healthy if we wanna maintain a functional wiki honestly. I can easily cite more examples for everything here and then some, to expose even more of this pattern, but I believe that'd be unnecessary. I will here that I do NOT believe that I'm entirely blameless in all of these, I am under no such delusion, and I have apologized when they told me that I was coming off as aggressive to them, and I don't mind doing that again because it's entirely possible for me to come off as aggressive even if I don't intend it. But I have generally strived to maintained a calm attitude throughout all of this and tried to think nothing for most of these, but it's starting to become uncontrollable especially with this latest post of theirs, outright hostile (what even is that lol).
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Let me understand this correctly. You're accusing me of manipulating scans to fit my agenda by check notes providing all versions of the official translations for a scene as context? The double scans I used are for terms in Japanese that have two interchangeable meanings in English.
In the star seed downgrade thread, did you not also use two different translations of the same scan as evidence and context? What's the difference between that and me? Or is it only malicious when I do it? And it's just providing context when you do it?
And the so called mistranslations? You guys made the claim that I made the argued that star seeds created names, despite in the very thread, when I used that scan, I gave a list of different types of nonstandard living beings, not a list of different names. I told you to stop making that claim and that it wasn't true and explained my self over and over again, yet you still kept pushing the narrative.
Sure. I have been very curt and and downright rude for this past few weeks. But I don't blame myself. You and your dbz gang have spent the last weeks claiming nonstop that I have gotten my threads through dishonest methods and gang up on every Sailor Moon thread, and turned our general thread into a toxic cesspool. Sure, I should have rose above it, but I let it get to me.
But none of this matter. I am taking a (permanent?) hiatus from this site. The fact that double standard of when it comes to what's acceptable as evidence is just too way to frustrating and I can no longer in good conscience subject myself to try to argue with people who expect Sailor Moon pages to match our wiki's standard word for word or be completely disregarded. Or that, any counter arguments I give, never get taken serious or even acknowledged, even when I point out direct story facts that contradict non-knowledgeable members' statements. And then not apply the same level of scrutiny to other verses.
MeiouHades
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Not gonna argue here (even though I easily can). All up to the mods.
Mr. Bambu
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On the first claim, I do think it is reasonably mitigated by the fact that both of those translations are presented in a single Imgur link; had it been one in one link and one in the other, I think it would be a reasonable interpretation of trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes by presenting two interpretations of the same scan, and using them both as legitimate evidence.
This is a bit out of context. The first two of those warnings aren't warnings and happened in short sequence of one another. The third one isn't a warning either but it does imply it's unfavorable, what Unanimous is doing, so I'd accept that as something you could interpret as a warning, I guess.
I will say that I find the practice of using multiple translations itself troublesome, for perhaps obvious reasons: we cannot simultaneously accept that a scan says X and Y thing, we must choose one that is more legitimate than others. Up to this point in the thread, I don't think the report has totally proven that this was done as a means to manipulate others, so for now we're not in rule violation territory.
Mods closing it isn't really proof of it being a spite thread either. Suppose that I am uninitiated in the social dynamics between these two verses- why would I assume Unanimous is spiting Dragon Ball? Does Unanimous have a history of poor behavior against Dragon Ball, was a verse Unanimous likes (presumably Sailor Moon but perhaps something else) "wronged" by a Dragon Ball supporter shortly before that thread went up? A poorly made thread alone isn't evidence of spite.
Do understand that I'm not rebuking this point, I just want you to provide the context that would lead one to assume spite there.
I'll assume this is legitimately them posting this... if this is the most damning evidence, I do see where you're coming from, but I would have preferred something more. Let me put it this way. If I assume this person has no other reason to spite a verse, then what I see there is someone being told (presumably) X quality doesn't equate to a "dimension", but they observe another verse having something they perceive as similar being accepted as a "dimension" under those same perceived grounds. So they make a downgrade (perhaps a shitty one, perhaps one bad enough and for a large enough verse that the mods shut it down, and perhaps one motivated not by spite but rather frustration that there are hypocritical disparities between what gets accepted and what doesn't), and get reported for spite. I wouldn't call that spite, I would call it bad powerscaling, which we don't ban people for (although we may apply more limited action than that, like a topic ban, if it is serious enough).
So I'd still like more context here that leads us to conclude this is an act of spite. It's a hard claim to prove within reason.
Who posted that first Discord message? What is the second one in response to (is it the first one)? The screenshots are cropped in such a way as to be useless currently.
A lot of this is hard to take as outright reportable. You acknowledge your role in it but it really is evenly split between the two of you. You report him for accusing you of lying but in the bit above that you accused him of deliberately recontextualizing information... which is a form of lying. Some of these points shouldn't happen period (one would prefer nobody calls another stupid, as the first bit does, regardless of how tame one makes said insult), and some of them shouldn't happen unless it's occurring in a report such as this (calling one another liars or manipulators).
As it stands... I think both of you need to calm the **** down, as do about half a dozen other people. I think the last quoted chunk offers a good deal of insight over how terribly petty this has gotten. Without delving deeper into the muck I think a warning for you and Unanimous is warranted for continued poor behavior on these threads.
Regarding all that came before, I find there is proof enough for pettiness to back up the claim of spiting Dragon Ball, but I'm not seeing any reason for Dragon Ball in particular to be targeted that would lead us to a conclusion of spite, barring perhaps a vague thrashing out, but it doesn't seem like that to me. Unanimous' messages imply, in my view, a plausible belief that they are correct regarding Dragon Ball (whether they are or aren't, I don't really care). There are other plausible scenarios, but rather than explore them I will reiterate my wish for context on Unanimous that would lead us to believe this is a situation of spite.
And finally, the manipulation of context via the use of two separate translations. Taking into account that they have, ostensibly of their own volition, provided these scans in the same Imgur link in the past (I saw it at least once, it may have happened other times), and that they have at least a plausible defense for why they might do that sort of thing (providing two scans to show two different meanings of a contentious or important translated word), I don't think I would consider this a rule violation for now. I would suggest we consider the practice against the rules going forward, as one ought to pick one translation deemed the most reliable and use it.
So the spite accusation is a major one and one I would consider ban time a likely punishment for, but it would need to be proven with more evidence than is currently provided.
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I've been personally following this for a while. Meiou Hades has essentially DMed me every single grievance here as they came up in the past.
My response was a pretty consistent "If you really believe that make a rule violation report." I'm glad it finally happened.
On most of the specifics, I essentially agree with Bambu, and detaching myself from any personal bias I think a warning for both isn't unreasonable based on the currently presented evidence.
Out of the whole thing, what struck me as the most troublesome was the nature of threads being closed and remade. Regardless of behavior earlier in the thread, the current state of the discussion for the Galaxy Cauldron seemed reasonable, and I was a little flabbergasted when I woke up to learn apparently it was agreed to move it to a staff thread for, what seemed to me, like no reason. And indeed, the new thread was essentially just rehashing what was already said in the last one.
Then to top it off, when it was obvious that moving it to a staff thread didn't change the general consensus they immediately asked for it to be closed so they could remake it once again, and it was. Now they say they plan on an indefinite hiatus.
Meiou Hades told me they thought the goal was to avoid the topic ever being officially rejected, since both times the votes started to align against the OP they closed the current one. Lamuna also said the first time they'd make the staff thread by Monday but it showed up about a week late.
To me, this has all been very frustrating, and I feel like, regardless of intention, it has indeed stifled discussion on the topic and prevented us from rightfully reaching an official conclusion about it.
Now, as previously established, I'm not the kind of person who would support punishing someone based purely on skepticism of their intentions. However, I do think, regardless, that we really need to re-evaluate with what ease we shut down entire discussions because one side of the argument simply asks us to.
My response was a pretty consistent "If you really believe that make a rule violation report." I'm glad it finally happened.
On most of the specifics, I essentially agree with Bambu, and detaching myself from any personal bias I think a warning for both isn't unreasonable based on the currently presented evidence.
Out of the whole thing, what struck me as the most troublesome was the nature of threads being closed and remade. Regardless of behavior earlier in the thread, the current state of the discussion for the Galaxy Cauldron seemed reasonable, and I was a little flabbergasted when I woke up to learn apparently it was agreed to move it to a staff thread for, what seemed to me, like no reason. And indeed, the new thread was essentially just rehashing what was already said in the last one.
Then to top it off, when it was obvious that moving it to a staff thread didn't change the general consensus they immediately asked for it to be closed so they could remake it once again, and it was. Now they say they plan on an indefinite hiatus.
Meiou Hades told me they thought the goal was to avoid the topic ever being officially rejected, since both times the votes started to align against the OP they closed the current one. Lamuna also said the first time they'd make the staff thread by Monday but it showed up about a week late.
To me, this has all been very frustrating, and I feel like, regardless of intention, it has indeed stifled discussion on the topic and prevented us from rightfully reaching an official conclusion about it.
Now, as previously established, I'm not the kind of person who would support punishing someone based purely on skepticism of their intentions. However, I do think, regardless, that we really need to re-evaluate with what ease we shut down entire discussions because one side of the argument simply asks us to.
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Hi! Why didn’t you mentioned you DM’d me and I explained I was busy in real life?
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Before I get my sentence, can I still make/link a blog post to my tf2 calc evaluation thread or nah?
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Because I thought it was obvious that would be your reason and/or I'm not advocating for you to be punished for it, just that it added to my frustration.
That said, I don't have a problem confirming it. Indeed, you said you were busy in real life.
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Regarding the WOG incident, it seems like there's no objection to giving @TugiaTheNarrator an official warning.
And for @DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt, while I personally would also be fine with a warning, multiple staff have said they'd be okay with a two week ban. Since they themselves said they're fine with a ban, I'm thinking that's probably acceptable to apply.
However, I would like to request it be delayed until they can apply this thread as soon as @Mr. Bambu confirms the finalized changes.
And for @DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt, while I personally would also be fine with a warning, multiple staff have said they'd be okay with a two week ban. Since they themselves said they're fine with a ban, I'm thinking that's probably acceptable to apply.
However, I would like to request it be delayed until they can apply this thread as soon as @Mr. Bambu confirms the finalized changes.
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Just to explain what happened (to clear some things up)
When I originally made the comment I wanted to ask a lore question (that was related to a huge controversial debate), and at the time I had no idea it was against the rules.
As for the Stolas vs Alastor part, if that's WOG, shouldn't we remove it from the profiles?
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If it was from a leading question or asked by one of our members.
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I don't think it was? Nothing seemed malicious, just a simple, "who would you say?"
But if it gets removed then ok, just site rules
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Still I feel like it shouldn't be used given Vivzie wasn't sure on her standpoint, tho I feel like we're going off topic here.
